I have been Called to the Principal's Office

[ConHog]

I don't know how I missed this thread.
I'll just chime in that I agree 110% with Samson on this.

In 8th grade my son got a C in algebra. Which he couldn't explain to me.
I couldn't figure this out, he is good in math and early algebra is as easy as putting a 10 pc puzzle together.
So I emailed the teacher via their website..2 days..3 days..4 days..nothing.
So I try again...nothing. It ends up this teacher doesn't like email so he doesn't use it. Ok then WTF is it doing there?
So I call the school and ask to speak to the principal. After playing 30 questions, finally I get through, I respectfully ask to set a meet time with the teacher about my sons grade. I gave him my cell phone.
2 days...3 days...4 days...ok now I am pissed off.
I call again...I get this "well Mr. ___" has been really busy and hasn't had the time yet".
I insist....Get this:
I go to the school and meet with the teacher in his room that afternoon as planned, and the principal, Mr.___ and another male teacher. WTF?? Is this a courtroom?
To make the story short - my son got the C because he wouldn't stop talking after he finished his classroom work. I asked how many times was he told to stop, the teacher didn't know specifically, but said "several times". I asked was he sent to the prinipals office.."no". I asked did anyone try and contact me so I could speak with my son about it at home..."no".
So I said..so what your saying is, is my sons punishment is to lower his grade?
Before he could answer, I withdrew papers from my sons algebra folder..showing 100's, 98's etc. etc. howmework paper after paper. I showed equal marks on his tests and quizzes.
So I asked a different question, this time to the principal.."is it this schools policy that the only disciplinary action taken is to lower a childs grade"?
This went on for about 3-4 minutes.

At the end of it all, my sons C stayed. He received good grades after that, but only because I spoke with him about talking in class.

THAT I would have taken to the school board. Grades are for achievement, not behavior. There should be a reflection of poor behavior on report card, not via the achievement grade. Detention would be fine. I'd be more concerned why your son had the 'free time' to be talking so much. Placement sounds wrong.

1000% agreed. If this case were brought to me, the grade would have been reversed, and the teacher reprimanded for several things, not the least of which would be ignoring his email.

 

[sangha]

Wrong again.

You have a flair for putting the "Ass" in assume: The meeting is to address my complaint about a teacher's inability, incompetence, or whatever burr is up her butt, that prevents her from producing a graded paper once a week.

You assume a graded paper/week does equal the total "said progress." I have never implied this. There could be many components to progress. I have only asked to see one graded paper per week as a minimum example.

blah blah blah, you are PLAINLY only doing this to be a nuisance.

Plainly, my "nuisance" hasn't been enough to alter one teacher's habit's.

But, if she wants to hang herself over one graded paper/week, I'll be happy to watch.

There's lots of people that need work these days.

Samson is such a passive aggresive weenie, he doesn't realize how he's already revealed that he's doing this only to annoy. Sure, at first he started claiming this was about his child, but that pretense qiuckly fell to the side as Samson went for the whole "This is how teaching is done" argument. Now, he's dropping even that obvious lie, and now admits that his demand for one graded paper has nothing to do with measuring progress or the teachers' effectiveness, or even reviewing the curriculum

Samson has now been reduced to claiming that this one graded assignment/week is some sort of "minimum example", but I doubt we'll ever hear what exactly it is an example of. After all, Samson himself has ruled it our as being a "minimum example" of the kids progress, the schools' curriculum, or the teachers' effectiveness or competency

So what is the point of demanding this "minimum example"?

 

[sangha]

Well, that would be great.

Apparently that level of concern isn't acheivable among all his teachers: thus the complaint.

You've admitted your child isn't concerned, so why should a teacher be? Limited resources need to be spent on children who give a shit.

Um no.

Teachers in public schools are hired to teach ALL the kids, not only the ones that are "concerned."

Jaysus Christ you really are fucking clueless.

This idiot claims to have work in a school system and he doesnt realize that schools expell kids all the time.

Teachers are under no obligation to ensure that every child learns. Every society has its' winners and its' losers. We know what you're raising; another rightwing welfare queen who will blame the nanny govt for its' failure to suceed

 

[sangha]

My kids always had an "Agenda" book that had all of the requirements of each course, what the course would teach and what they would be tested on. The agenda had a time line of what would be taught when. I do not remember individual tests being sent out all the time but I do remember if one of my kids received a low mark on a test we always knew what area they were tested on and would make sure they went over that area for the midterm and/or final.
If they are not providing you with an agenda and/or course guideline at the first of each semester/quarter for each course and what will be covered, when it will be covered and when the tests are given on that particular area of course work then that is a real problem.
The agenda keeps the student on task and makes them accountable for their own actions. If they do not do well on any test THEY know it and have no excuses.

Actually what you are describing is what I've used in all my classes for the past 8 years. The students, (middle school), needed to have a spiral notebook, and pocket folder color coordinated for each of my classes. Into the notebook were all notes, , diagrams, graphic organizers, etc. Following each lesson would be their homework, including page and problem numbers, corrections in contrasting colors along with additional information, also contrasting color, given during corrections and discussions. At the end of each section in preparing for testing would be a review to be completed in notebook and an optional online quiz that could be repeated and was graded each time immediately. Both the hand out review and online review covered all material on the test-though questions were different.

In history classes the average student went through 3 notebooks per year.

While I collected homework grades occasionally, the big 'homework grade' was the notebook. If all assignments had been corrected, if dates and page numbers for reading and assignments had been used, if contrasting colors had been used, they'd get an A on notebook. The only reason that I'd collect homework grades, (once or twice a week), was to ensure they were doing their homework to the best of their ability. My major concern was that they understood what was wrong and why. I wanted them to develop better note taking skills, to prepare for tests, both imminent and long term.

Seriously, I had at least 40 high school/college students return and thank me. Some wrote letters about how I'd helped them prepare for higher learning-ahead of their classmates. Yeah, those letters are part of my portfolio.

You sound like an excellent and very detail oriented teacher. Wish there were more like you .

From the 9th grade on, we require all teachers to provide a syllabus at the beginning of each school year detailing the expected timeline and homework and test dates for each course to both the students and the administrators. strangely the only complaints we've received are over the rare occasions when a class is behind schedule, which does happen.

We leave it up to individual teachers to how they want to handle note taking and such.

The thing is, all of this requires that the parent take an interest in the childs education and to put the kind of effort into making sure their child is learning that an interested and involved parent would make. None of this is true in Samsons' case.

 

[sangha]

Actually what you are describing is what I've used in all my classes for the past 8 years. The students, (middle school), needed to have a spiral notebook, and pocket folder color coordinated for each of my classes. Into the notebook were all notes, , diagrams, graphic organizers, etc. Following each lesson would be their homework, including page and problem numbers, corrections in contrasting colors along with additional information, also contrasting color, given during corrections and discussions. At the end of each section in preparing for testing would be a review to be completed in notebook and an optional online quiz that could be repeated and was graded each time immediately. Both the hand out review and online review covered all material on the test-though questions were different.

In history classes the average student went through 3 notebooks per year.

While I collected homework grades occasionally, the big 'homework grade' was the notebook. If all assignments had been corrected, if dates and page numbers for reading and assignments had been used, if contrasting colors had been used, they'd get an A on notebook. The only reason that I'd collect homework grades, (once or twice a week), was to ensure they were doing their homework to the best of their ability. My major concern was that they understood what was wrong and why. I wanted them to develop better note taking skills, to prepare for tests, both imminent and long term.

Seriously, I had at least 40 high school/college students return and thank me. Some wrote letters about how I'd helped them prepare for higher learning-ahead of their classmates. Yeah, those letters are part of my portfolio.

You sound like an excellent and very detail oriented teacher. Wish there were more like you .

From the 9th grade on, we require all teachers to provide a syllabus at the beginning of each school year detailing the expected timeline and homework and test dates for each course to both the students and the administrators. strangely the only complaints we've received are over the rare occasions when a class is behind schedule, which does happen.

We leave it up to individual teachers to how they want to handle note taking and such.

I'll say that I took Samson's initial posting as asking for more than this, upon reflection I think this is what he was looking for, perhaps even beyond what he was looking for.

Yet you seem to deride his queries for this type of information. What is it the child is doing in class? 'Well, let's look at the notebook...'

My concern as primarily a social studies teacher was the fact that 'big grades' are few and far between. Perhaps 5 or 6 in a trimester, give or take. However, the bulk of my grades were in homework and participation, if those were at A level, even if 'big' grades were toast, the child would pass. If better than 'toast', say a C level, they'd get a C+ or B. 'Big' grades being tests, reports, special projects.

I'll say that I took Samson OP as nothing like that. If Samson is concerned about how the school keeps the parents informed their students performance, then he would be going to the School Board and proposing that they implement such a system. In fact, IIRC Samson has explicitely denied that he is trying to improve the school systems' reporting methods.

Samson is unable to get his child to bring his graded assignments home for Samson to review, so he wants the teachers to be responsible for informing Samson of the childs' grades.

 

[sangha]

My son is a senior this year and what you describe is pretty much what they do here from 7th thru 12th grade. The only issue, the teachers do not allow the sacred notebooks to ever leave the confines of the classroom until the end of the school year. The teacher can see how the student is doing, but all mom and dad gets thru an online service is a number grade like 92.5 with a description like "unit 7 quiz". If the student makes good grades, the parents are actually discouraged from scheduling a conference during the parent/teacher conference dates. You can schedule one if you want, but they would prefer you not.

To me that would be wrong. The kids need to have their notebooks and handouts to study for tests and do their homework. 6th grade I went through their notebooks about every 3/4 weeks. 7th grade, about every 6/8 weeks. 8th grade just once per trimester. It's a process, not an end point.

If done correctly, which is rated by notebook grade, all they need to know is in their notebook and folder. Their weak points are in contrasting colors, thus for mid-terms, finals, they know where to focus their studies.

So you can understand Samson's frustration that his school system won't allow a parent to see their child's work and just wants them to accept a grade with no context?

The school ALLOWS Samson to see his childs' work. The problem is Samsons' child, who wont bring the work home for Samson to see

 

[sangha]

I've had a wide variety of "one graded paper/week/class."

I've had only one teacher grade a notebook and send it home every week.

No other teacher has been able to evaluating learning with anything approaching a systematic approach. It is really no great stretch of my imagination to believe that the average 16 year old hasn't the faintest clue how they are evaluated or what the expectations are to be successful in class.

Each teacher does submit a syllabus in the beginning of the year. The weighting of grades is detailed (usually daily grades are 40% and tests are 60%), but there is no timeline as to WHEN grades will be taken, or which type, or how often. Frankly, this is somewhat immaterial to me: am I supposed to recall that a quiz about linear equations, or photosynthesis, or The Battle of Lexington, or the theme of October Sky is going to be given tomorrow? Fuck No. That's the student's, not the parent's job.

MY only job is to get the graded work (notebook, test, lab, quiz, worksheet, warmup, etc., etc.), and reinforce/reward success or reinforce/punish failure. Research has revealed that this is effective only on a frequent basis, and only if the graded work is returned within 48 hours of the work being completed.

Here's where Samson pretends that his request has something to do with proper teaching methods, even though he has already admitted that his "minimal" request will show little about the childs' or the schools' progress.

And if you want to know WHEN a test is given, why don't you try asking your child?

PS - You also just made it obvious that you misunderstood Operant Conditioning, reinforcement and punishment, but I'd love to see some links to your "research".

 

[sangha]

You're beginning to strike me as one of the reading impaired.

Start reading the fucking post and get a clue: I'll walk your retard-ass through this ONCE:

1. It's the student's job to know WTF they'll be graded on

2. It's My job to reinforce good grades, or punish bad grades

If you didn't participate in the accountability of YOUR 16 year old, then good for you: BRAVO. My parents never had to participate either, but guess what?? Maybe it's a fuckin' revelation to you, but everyone is not you!!



Jeeze, I'd encourage you to imagine that, but I'm not sure you have the two braincells necessary to rub together to make it happen.

Hey good man, do what you want and that is fine with me.
YOU, not me, are the one that threw this out for us to comment on.
I agree with you. It is your job to do as you want to as you are the parent.
How is it working for you?

IF Samson is such a paragon of rewarding good grades and punishing bad, then WHY is he still worrying about his 10th grader failing? By that age the child should know the consequences should he bring home a bad report card without daddy having to see weekly progress. Unless said child is learning impaired, in which case I do not approve of grade based rewards and punishments.

Samsons' child is failing, because somehow the nanny govts' school system and its' teachers are doing something wrong. This becomes obvious once you realize that Samson, who once worked in a school system of some kind, and knows everything about teaching, could not possibly be held responsible for not teaching his child the skill of bringing his classwork home.

 

[sangha]

IF Samson is such a paragon of rewarding good grades and punishing bad, then WHY is he still worrying about his 10th grader failing? By that age the child should know the consequences should he bring home a bad report card without daddy having to see weekly progress. Unless said child is learning impaired, in which case I do not approve of grade based rewards and punishments.

You know, every time you open your mouth, you look more stupid than the last time. Next to the word stupid in the dictionary, there is a picture of you. I don't know why you have such a hard on for Samson, but you really need to get over it.

"Paragon?" Now I'm a parental paragon for wanting to reward good work? Jeeze, it certainly doesn't take much to impress some idiots, but I hope he hasn't melted down any gold to make a statue of me yet.

Clearly, Conhog's never taught in public school.

He has a astonishingly shallow grasp on the broad spectrum of students' abilities, interest, emotional development, etc., etc., etc. and what it takes to motivate individuals.

Unlike Samson, whose knowledge about motivating students is so apparent in his own childs' behavior.

 

[sangha]

First you make a broad generalization:

...By that age the child should know the consequences should he bring home a bad report card .....

Then you claim you are not talking about a broad spectrum of students:

We're not talking about a broad spectrum of students .....

You clearly haven't a clue as to what you are saying: Frankly, I suspect that you're simply trolling the thread to hear your own blithering idiocy.

So at age 15, your child STILL does not understand that his actions have consequences?

Would it be an inappropriately "broad generalization" to say that 15 years should know how to read at a 6th grade level, and that if they can't, something has gone very wrong?

 

[sangha]

"Paragon?" Now I'm a parental paragon for wanting to reward good work? Jeeze, it certainly doesn't take much to impress some idiots, but I hope he hasn't melted down any gold to make a statue of me yet.

Clearly, Conhog's never taught in public school.

He has a astonishingly shallow grasp on the broad spectrum of students' abilities, interest, emotional development, etc., etc., etc. and what it takes to motivate individuals.

Like many people here, I don't think conhog has dome most of the things he claims. Perhaps we should begin calling him Wally.......short for Walter Mitty.

He's never claimed to have taught public school a day in his life.

He claims to be on a school board in Arkansas, an achievement that requires very little in the way of knowledge and skills.

Actually, it requires more than it takes to be a parent. For one thing, you have to actually be concerned about what the school is doing. That rules out Samson.

 

[sangha]

I don't know how I missed this thread.
I'll just chime in that I agree 110% with Samson on this.

In 8th grade my son got a C in algebra. Which he couldn't explain to me.
I couldn't figure this out, he is good in math and early algebra is as easy as putting a 10 pc puzzle together.
So I emailed the teacher via their website..2 days..3 days..4 days..nothing.
So I try again...nothing. It ends up this teacher doesn't like email so he doesn't use it. Ok then WTF is it doing there?
So I call the school and ask to speak to the principal. After playing 30 questions, finally I get through, I respectfully ask to set a meet time with the teacher about my sons grade. I gave him my cell phone.
2 days...3 days...4 days...ok now I am pissed off.
I call again...I get this "well Mr. ___" has been really busy and hasn't had the time yet".
I insist....Get this:
I go to the school and meet with the teacher in his room that afternoon as planned, and the principal, Mr.___ and another male teacher. WTF?? Is this a courtroom?
To make the story short - my son got the C because he wouldn't stop talking after he finished his classroom work. I asked how many times was he told to stop, the teacher didn't know specifically, but said "several times". I asked was he sent to the prinipals office.."no". I asked did anyone try and contact me so I could speak with my son about it at home..."no".
So I said..so what your saying is, is my sons punishment is to lower his grade?
Before he could answer, I withdrew papers from my sons algebra folder..showing 100's, 98's etc. etc. howmework paper after paper. I showed equal marks on his tests and quizzes.
So I asked a different question, this time to the principal.."is it this schools policy that the only disciplinary action taken is to lower a childs grade"?
This went on for about 3-4 minutes.

At the end of it all, my sons C stayed. He received good grades after that, but only because I spoke with him about talking in class.

Why did your 13 yo child not know that repeated talkiing in class would hurt his grades?

 

[Jackson]

I've always taught elementary, but I certainly would like to know what my son was doing in the upper grades as well. Didn't have that problem. I would just tell the teachers if you can't send the papers home each week, I will come on Monday after school after you have graded them on the weekend to see exactly what he missed and we will be going over them the following week. See you on Mondays.

And show up each MOnday after school and wait for their excuses. Document what they say and make your appointment with the Superintendent if you don't find common ground with the principal.

 

[Samson]

I've always taught elementary, but I certainly would like to know what my son was doing in the upper grades as well. Didn't have that problem. I would just tell the teachers if you can't send the papers home each week, I will come on Monday after school after you have graded them on the weekend to see exactly what he missed and we will be going over them the following week. See you on Mondays.

And show up each MOnday after school and wait for their excuses. Document what they say and make your appointment with the Superintendent if you don't find common ground with the principal.

I'd love to do this, but the burden then becomes as much mine as anyone.

At any rate, after the meeting with the district, they have offered, in writing, sent by certified mail, a satisfactory solution:

A school employee, a Paper-Gathering Specialist, will collect specimens of my kid's work on a weekly basis from all his teachers, and will send this home with my kid on Friday.

 

[Ravi]

I've always taught elementary, but I certainly would like to know what my son was doing in the upper grades as well. Didn't have that problem. I would just tell the teachers if you can't send the papers home each week, I will come on Monday after school after you have graded them on the weekend to see exactly what he missed and we will be going over them the following week. See you on Mondays.

And show up each MOnday after school and wait for their excuses. Document what they say and make your appointment with the Superintendent if you don't find common ground with the principal.

I'd love to do this, but the burden then becomes as much mine as anyone.

At any rate, after the meeting with the district, they have offered, in writing, sent by certified mail, a satisfactory solution:

A school employee, a Paper-Gathering Specialist, will collect specimens of my kid's work on a weekly basis from all his teachers, and will send this home with my kid on Friday.

Excellent! You created a job just because you can't get your son to bring his work home himself.

 

[Annie]

I've always taught elementary, but I certainly would like to know what my son was doing in the upper grades as well. Didn't have that problem. I would just tell the teachers if you can't send the papers home each week, I will come on Monday after school after you have graded them on the weekend to see exactly what he missed and we will be going over them the following week. See you on Mondays.

And show up each MOnday after school and wait for their excuses. Document what they say and make your appointment with the Superintendent if you don't find common ground with the principal.

I'd love to do this, but the burden then becomes as much mine as anyone.

At any rate, after the meeting with the district, they have offered, in writing, sent by certified mail, a satisfactory solution:

A school employee, a Paper-Gathering Specialist, will collect specimens of my kid's work on a weekly basis from all his teachers, and will send this home with my kid on Friday.

 

[Samson]

I've always taught elementary, but I certainly would like to know what my son was doing in the upper grades as well. Didn't have that problem. I would just tell the teachers if you can't send the papers home each week, I will come on Monday after school after you have graded them on the weekend to see exactly what he missed and we will be going over them the following week. See you on Mondays.

And show up each MOnday after school and wait for their excuses. Document what they say and make your appointment with the Superintendent if you don't find common ground with the principal.

I'd love to do this, but the burden then becomes as much mine as anyone.

At any rate, after the meeting with the district, they have offered, in writing, sent by certified mail, a satisfactory solution:

A school employee, a Paper-Gathering Specialist, will collect specimens of my kid's work on a weekly basis from all his teachers, and will send this home with my kid on Friday.

Yeah, I didn't see that coming......apparently my imagination doesn't extend far enough into the realms of the ludirous to imagine how the mind of a school district thinks.

 

[sangha]

I've always taught elementary, but I certainly would like to know what my son was doing in the upper grades as well. Didn't have that problem. I would just tell the teachers if you can't send the papers home each week, I will come on Monday after school after you have graded them on the weekend to see exactly what he missed and we will be going over them the following week. See you on Mondays.

And show up each MOnday after school and wait for their excuses. Document what they say and make your appointment with the Superintendent if you don't find common ground with the principal.

I'd love to do this, but the burden then becomes as much mine as anyone.

At any rate, after the meeting with the district, they have offered, in writing, sent by certified mail, a satisfactory solution:

A school employee, a Paper-Gathering Specialist, will collect specimens of my kid's work on a weekly basis from all his teachers, and will send this home with my kid on Friday.

Excellent! You created a job just because you can't get your son to bring his work home himself.

The important line in Samsons' post

I'd love to do this, but the burden then becomes as much mine as anyone.

God forbid samson be burdened by the childs' education.

 

[sangha]

kwc is such a pussy that s/he negged me for this post, but is too scared to post in this thread. She doesn't have the balls to confront me

I'd love to do this, but the burden then becomes as much mine as anyone.

At any rate, after the meeting with the district, they have offered, in writing, sent by certified mail, a satisfactory solution:

A school employee, a Paper-Gathering Specialist, will collect specimens of my kid's work on a weekly basis from all his teachers, and will send this home with my kid on Friday.

Excellent! You created a job just because you can't get your son to bring his work home himself.

The important line in Samsons' post

I'd love to do this, but the burden then becomes as much mine as anyone.

God forbid samson be burdened by the childs' education.

 

[Ravi]

I made up for it. It was an awesome and ironic point.