I have a question

[The Irish Ram]

Christ lived a sinless life here as an example for us to emulate. His love for us while we were still sinners is amazing to me. It is hard for us to embrace the ungodly, but not for Him. Thank God..

Jeri, funny thing about tithing. When Jesus was asked about tithing his comment was, "as well you should......."
Tithing freed up the preacher from having to provide for himself, thus giving him more time to pray on our behalf. It supports the church by keeping it functioning. But the churches have become so corrupt it takes some homework to make sure you are being a good steward of the money when you tithe. And tithing and charity are two completely different things.

Tithing is an action where God doesn't require faith. Concerning tithing God says, "Test me on this." The return on investment is mind blowing. Tithing done correctly yields an abundance far beyond your initial deposit. It's easy money and worth the sacrifice. It's like having a machine that spits out a one hundred dollar bill every time you deposit a dollar. And it is guaranteed.

I love the arrangement personally, and bank on it literally, just because God promised and I know it works. I can't buy a piece of property that doesn't become worth it's weight in gold as soon as I settle in. I know that is God's handiwork.

 

[AVG-JOE]

The bible is the most intact book of antiquity in existence in the world today.

Perhaps...



But the Ancient Stories were still authored by hands that were very human.

Having a somewhat documented pedigree of authorship and stewardship doesn't make the stories any easier to believe. Nor does a connected history prove Divine inspiration.

What stories about Christ are hard for you to believe Joe?

The Divinity concept behind the stories is what's hard to swallow. I actually enjoy the stories more now that I understand them to be historical fiction.

 

[MonaGonna]

Christ lived a sinless life here as an example for us to emulate. His love for us while we were still sinners is amazing to me. It is hard for us to embrace the ungodly, but not for Him. Thank God..

Jeri, funny thing about tithing. When Jesus was asked about tithing his comment was, "as well you should......."
Tithing freed up the preacher from having to provide for himself, thus giving him more time to pray on our behalf. It supports the church by keeping it functioning. But the churches have become so corrupt it takes some homework to make sure you are being a good steward of the money when you tithe. And tithing and charity are two completely different things.

Tithing is an action where God doesn't require faith. Concerning tithing God says, "Test me on this." The return on investment is mind blowing. Tithing done correctly yields an abundance far beyond your initial deposit. It's easy money and worth the sacrifice. It's like having a machine that spits out a one hundred dollar bill every time you deposit a dollar. And it is guaranteed.

I love the arrangement personally, and bank on it literally, just because God promised and I know it works. I can't buy a piece of property that doesn't become worth it's weight in gold as soon as I settle in. I know that is God's handiwork.

Jesus had unprotected and pre-marital sex with a prostitute. If it sounds like a sin and walks like a sin...

 

[hobelim]

Get out your words processors and cut and paste becauset his came from a college class that I'm willing to share. It is the test for evidence and if I want to give a person a hard time because they promote nonsense, I go through the list.

Tests For Evidence
From English 116, Interpersonal Communications
Dr. XXXXXX XXXXXXX
1. Is there enough?
We know very few things with dead certainty.
2. Is it clear?
Do you really understand it? Is it complex? Can you interpret it?
3. Is it consistent with what is already known?
4. Can it be verified?
Have to have better than 2nd or 3rd sources. Not first hand sources?
5. Is the source competent?
A) Is the source credentialed? Does the source have the education or experience?
B) Is the source respected by other experts in the field?
C) Did the source have the opportunity to observe?
D) Was the source physically capable of making the observation?
E) Was the source mentally and emotionally capable of observation?
6. Is the source without bias or without prejudice?
7. Is the source honest?
8. Is the evidence relevant?
9. Is the evidence mathematically and statistically correct?
10. Is the evidence current?

People can tell you what they believe but it is based on nothing.

Logical Fallacies

Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc – sequential..before this happens…this caused it. (Cause and Effect) Sequential fallacies presumed to be causually related but doesn’t have to be.

Band Wagon – popular opinion (advertising)

Diverting People from the Point:

Ad hominem – don’t pay attention to the issues. Concentrate on the man.

Ad misericordinim – an appeal to misery.

Ad baculum – Appeal to fear.

Ad bellum – Appeal to War.

Red Herring – get you off of the issues by labeling. Red Herring is from when people salted fish. Packed in Barrels. Used to confuse dog hounds with scent.

Two-valued logic “polarization”

Begging the Question – using part of the problem as proof for itself.

Non Sequitur – Doesn’t follow. Example: She should be a great veterinarian because she loves dogs.

Sweeping Generalization – like the allness

Hasty Generalization – not computing all of the evidence.. leaving something out.

Stereotypes – sometimes correct. Mostly false but not always bad. Include a larger sample.

Strawman – ascribing to someone a position he does not hold in order to embarrass someone. Easy position/argument to knock down.

People love making generalizations with very little evidence.

Para Language – aspects of non-verbal language.

Involves: Facial Expressions and Posture.

How is it that you left out your favorite logical fallacy, the appeal to authority fallacy?

You know, the one you use every time you mention your diploma or the consensus of your "educators", your state license to preach, or the very impressive connection to the mayors office????

Were you sleeping in class professor?

 

[Chuckt]

How is it that you left out your favorite logical fallacy, the appeal to authority fallacy?

You know, the one you use every time you mention your diploma or the consensus of your "educators", your state license to preach, or the very impressive connection to the mayors office????

Were you sleeping in class professor?

They have credentials. I have credentials.

But lets talk about you. You don't believe the evidence.

If the Bible isn't true and if God doesn't exist then I have to ask you a few questions.

1. Is there enough?

Is there enough evidence that God doesn't exist? We know very few things with dead certainty.

2. Is it clear?

Is your evidence clear?
Do you really understand it? Is it complex? Can you interpret it?

You can answer this one.

3. Is it consistent with what is already known?

What Hobelim knows is not consistent with the eyewitness testimony of believers in the gospels, the archaeological evidence, the historical evidence and the fact that people believe.

4. Can it be verified?

I can't verify Hobelim evidence.

Have to have better than 2nd or 3rd sources. Not first hand sources?

I'm not sure what sources you have. You haven't mentioned them.

5. Is the source competent?

Nope.

A) Is the source credentialed? Does the source have the education or experience?

Hasn't entered any credentials.

B) Is the source respected by other experts in the field?

Can't say without Hobelim's evidence.

C) Did the source have the opportunity to observe?

Hobelim wasn't there 2,000 years ago at the resurrection or when these things happened but he has an opinion on them.

D) Was the source physically capable of making the observation?

No.

E) Was the source mentally and emotionally capable of observation?

We won't go there.

6. Is the source without bias or without prejudice?

Nope.

7. Is the source honest?

I am not sure.

8. Is the evidence relevant?

Hobelim would have to prove relevance.

Hobelim believe something but I don't know what it is based on.

Have a nice day!

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Jeri, I wanted to touch base with you on the holiness factor.
For the Jews the Law is the root. For a Christian it is the fruit. We aspire to hear, "Well done, good and faithful servant." And it's our reasonable service to live as best we can for Christ's sake.

But if we gauge our own righteousness and obedience as the deciding factor as to our Heaven worthiness, instead of getting there by way of Christ's holiness, righteousness and obedience, what tends to happen is a loss of security and joy.
Self examination of our worthiness manufactures self condemnation and guilt and a sense of failure. You're righteous, then your not, then you are, then your not. I'm an alcoholic, I quit, I started again, I'm useless, I'm an addict, I don't deserve to be saved, I tripped up. I walked away, I did it twice.......
There is no rest, no peace that surpasses understanding.
It is a never ending downward spiral. And the guilt of backsliding or not measuring up is actually a sin conjured by Satan. When we take our eyes off of Christ and start to examine self, Satan will oblige us by reminding us of a humiliating defeat in our quest to be as holy as we can.

And our Loving Father doesn't even hold us accountable for those thoughts. He knows who shoots those arrows into our heads. His solution is to take those thoughts captive, and place them under the obedience of Christ. And then rest because Christ's righteousness never faltered, and was never disobedient.
God will snatch you right out of the jaws of hell for His Son's sake.
So what I would recommend for people who wonder if they are worthy to be called a child of God is to, "Do your best, Give Christ the rest".
Hugs to you.

I think we should guage our holiness in comparison to the cross.

Chuck, a doctrine shouldn't be followed unless it agrees with the Word of God. I believe the Word of God. We must gauge our holiness by our Love for Jesus Christ. If we Love Him? We will keep his commandments. The more we love Him? The more we draw near to him, the more we will seek His face and not his hand, the more we will pour out for others and pray for them always, the more we will love others as we love ourselves, the more we will be like him.

It is not possible to love Jesus without abiding in Him. That is what produces perfect love and perfect love casts out all fear. A coward will run into any hole, no matter how filthy to save himself. Some men will do it to save their reputations. When Peter's reputation was in danger he didn't walk upright either. When the Lord said that in order to become his disciple we must deny ourselves, take up our cross and follow him he meant exactly what he said. Denying ourselves means laying down our rights. Total commitment calls for total surrender. It must be done. That is our part. Otherwise we will continue to "vindicate ourselves" in order to preserve a part of ourselves that should have been crucified by the cross you wrote about in your reply. Paul put his own flesh under submission - He denied himself and went wherever the Spirit of God took him and if we want that life we are going to do what Paul did and not what these modern day false teachers are doing. That is a wide path gospel and it leads to hell. How do I know this? There are no signs following them. They have a form of godliness but deny the power of God. Paul warns us, from such turn away.

 

[hobelim]

How is it that you left out your favorite logical fallacy, the appeal to authority fallacy?

You know, the one you use every time you mention your diploma or the consensus of your "educators", your state license to preach, or the very impressive connection to the mayors office????

Were you sleeping in class professor?

They have credentials. I have credentials.

But lets talk about you. You don't believe the evidence.

If the Bible isn't true and if God doesn't exist then I have to ask you a few questions.

There you go with a red herring and the makings of a straw man professor.....


I do believe the Bible conveys truth and I do believe in God.

What isn't true is your belief in a triune God and what you provide as evidence of supernatural events.

It may be true that many of the dead came out of their graves when Jesus was resurrected but what is a lie is your assertion that the subject of the resurrection and the story of the ascension is about corpses popping out of the ground and Jesus floating up into the sky. You would cite your credentials as a fallacious argument for me to set aside the divine commands and worship a false roman triune god so I can be saved, avoid hell and live forever in heaven.

What a guy!

If it walks like a serpent and talks like a serpent.......

Thanks professor, now even many atheists will believe in fairy tales.........

 

[Chuckt]

Jeri, I wanted to touch base with you on the holiness factor.
For the Jews the Law is the root. For a Christian it is the fruit. We aspire to hear, "Well done, good and faithful servant." And it's our reasonable service to live as best we can for Christ's sake.

But if we gauge our own righteousness and obedience as the deciding factor as to our Heaven worthiness, instead of getting there by way of Christ's holiness, righteousness and obedience, what tends to happen is a loss of security and joy.
Self examination of our worthiness manufactures self condemnation and guilt and a sense of failure. You're righteous, then your not, then you are, then your not. I'm an alcoholic, I quit, I started again, I'm useless, I'm an addict, I don't deserve to be saved, I tripped up. I walked away, I did it twice.......
There is no rest, no peace that surpasses understanding.
It is a never ending downward spiral. And the guilt of backsliding or not measuring up is actually a sin conjured by Satan. When we take our eyes off of Christ and start to examine self, Satan will oblige us by reminding us of a humiliating defeat in our quest to be as holy as we can.

And our Loving Father doesn't even hold us accountable for those thoughts. He knows who shoots those arrows into our heads. His solution is to take those thoughts captive, and place them under the obedience of Christ. And then rest because Christ's righteousness never faltered, and was never disobedient.
God will snatch you right out of the jaws of hell for His Son's sake.
So what I would recommend for people who wonder if they are worthy to be called a child of God is to, "Do your best, Give Christ the rest".
Hugs to you.

I think we should guage our holiness in comparison to the cross.

Chuck, a doctrine shouldn't be followed unless it agrees with the Word of God. I believe the Word of God. We must gauge our holiness by our Love for Jesus Christ. If we Love Him? We will keep his commandments. The more we love Him? The more we draw near to him, the more we will seek His face and not his hand, the more we will pour out for others and pray for them always, the more we will love others as we love ourselves, the more we will be like him.

It is not possible to love Jesus without abiding in Him. That is what produces perfect love and perfect love casts out all fear. A coward will run into any hole, no matter how filthy to save himself. Some men will do it to save their reputations. When Peter's reputation was in danger he didn't walk upright either. When the Lord said that in order to become his disciple we must deny ourselves, take up our cross and follow him he meant exactly what he said. Denying ourselves means laying down our rights. Total commitment calls for total surrender. It must be done. That is our part. Otherwise we will continue to "vindicate ourselves" in order to preserve a part of ourselves that should have been crucified by the cross you wrote about in your reply. Paul put his own flesh under submission - He denied himself and went wherever the Spirit of God took him and if we want that life we are going to do what Paul did and not what these modern day false teachers are doing. That is a wide path gospel and it leads to hell. How do I know this? There are no signs following them. They have a form of godliness but deny the power of God. Paul warns us, from such turn away.

However, when one compares the attributes of humankind with those of God, we find ample testimony for the truth of Paul’s statement in Romans 3:23 that human beings “fall short of the glory of God.” Consider:
1. God is all-knowing (Isa. 40:13-14), but a human being is limited in knowledge (Job 38:4);
2. God is all-powerful (Rev. 19:6), but a human being is weak (Heb. 4:15);
3. God is everywhere-present (Ps. 139:7-12), but a human being is confined to a single space at a time (John 1:50);
4. God is holy (1 John 1:5), but even human “righteous” deeds are as filthy garments before
God (Isa. 64:6);
5. God is eternal (Ps. 90:2), but humanity was created at a point in time (Gen. 1:1, 26-27);
6. God is truth (John 14:6), but a human heart (since the Fall) is deceitful above all else
(Jer. 17:9);
7. God is characterized by justice (Acts 17:31), but humankind is lawless (1 John 3:4; see
also Rom. 3:23);
8. God is love (Eph. 2:4-5), but human relationships are plagued with numerous vices like
jealousy and strife (1 Cor. 3:3).

Dr. Norman Geisler: Are we ?Little Gods? and Other Misinterpretations ~ Answering Mormons

I cling to the cross because we can't earn salvation and we will never be good enough because in Adam we all die.

"And he said, I have this fire burning in my soul, it makes a man warm and it makes a man whole. When the sun goes down and the day is through, to live and walk like Jesus did is the best a man can do."-Dennis Agajanian

 

[Chuckt]

Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

This was the program I was listening to yesterday on the way home and I believe we have to cling to the cross and shape our theology from the cross.

The Centrality of the Cross (Part 2 of 2) - Broadcasts - Truth For Life

There was never ever anything good in us to earn salvation.

 

[Chuckt]

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Ephesians 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

The formula for salvation is grace through faith plus nothing.

Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

"...But if it be of works, then is it no more grace:...."

If we work towards holiness on our own apart from Jesus, grace is no more grace unless we get the holiness from God.

Justification is an accounting term. God takes righteousness out of His account and adds it to our account.

Adam and Eve were naked. The first rejected work in the Bible was them sewing fig leaves to make themselves not naked. If there was a way for man to be saved, God could have let Adam and Eve eat of the tree of life right there but He didn't.

Matthew 26:39 And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.

There was no other way. It isn't grace infused with works or grace infused with our holiness. It is grace from God who puts His righteousness in our account.

God had to die on the cross for us to be saved.

 

[hobelim]

Ephesians 2:8...Ephesians 2:9... Romans 11:6... Matthew 26:39... blah blah blah....

God had to die on the cross for us to be saved. Chuck 11:39

The serpent was more crafty than any of the wild creatures that the Lord God had made... Genesis 3:1

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Chuck writes:
However, when one compares the attributes of humankind with those of God, we find ample testimony for the truth of Paul’s statement in Romans 3:23 that human beings “fall short of the glory of God.”
___________________
My reply:

Which is why Paul said this, Chuck:

Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. For if you live after the flesh, you shall die. But if you through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, you shall live.

What does this mean? It means that if you continue to live after the flesh after believing on the Lord Jesus Christ you'll die. You must mortify the deeds of the body to live. How can you do that? By the Power of the Holy Spirit, Chuck.

Examine this scripture:

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. Romans 8: 1

and these scriptures:

That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit. For they that walk after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh, but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. Romans 8: 4,5,

and it is written:

For to be carnally minded is death but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God, for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can it be. So they that are in the flesh cannot please God. - Romans 8: 6,7, 8.

______________--
Chuck writes:
Consider:
1. God is all-knowing (Isa. 40:13-14), but a human being is limited in knowledge (Job 38:4);
________________________-
My reply:
It is written: For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ. - 1 Corinthinians 1: 16

It is written:

But ye have the unction from the Holy One, ye know all things. - 1 John 2: 20

It is written:

For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man, but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. - 2 Peter 1: 21

And finally it is written:

But as it is written: EYE HATH NOT SEEN, NOR EAR HEARD, NEITHER HATH ENTERED INTO THE HEART OF MAN, THE THINGS WHICH GOD HATH PREPARED FOR THEM THAT LOVE HIM.
But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit, for the Spirit searcheth the deep things of God.
For what man knoweth the things of a man, saveth the spirit of man which is in him? Even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit which is of God, ---->THAT WE MIGHT KNOW THE THINGS THAT ARE FREELY GIVEN TO US OF GOD. <-------------
-1 Corinthians 2: 9 - 12

You need the baptism of the Holy Ghost, Chuck. That is what you are missing here.
_____________________---
Chuck writes:

2. God is all-powerful (Rev. 19:6), but a human being is weak (Heb. 4:15);
______________---
My response -

It is written: Power belongeth unto God - Psalm 62: 11. The Holy Spirit is the Person who imparts to the believer the power that "belongs to God". The Holy Spirit's work in the believer is to take what belongs to God and make it ours. All the power of God belongs to the children of God as their birthright in Christ.

It is written: All things are yours. - 1 Corinthians 3: 21

The prayer warrior R. A. Torrey said this: Many in the church claim for themselves only a small part of that which God has made possible for them in Christ, because they know so little of what the Holy Spirit can do and what he "longs to do" for us. When one is born of the Spirit, the Spirit takes up his abode with him.

It is written:

I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me. Philippians 4: 13

_____________________
Chuck writes:

3. God is everywhere-present (Ps. 139:7-12), but a human being is confined to a single space at a time (John 1:50);
__________________________

My response:

It is written:

It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his fathers wife. And ye are puffed up, and have not mourned that he that hath done this deed migh be taken away from among you. -------------->FOR VERILY, AS ABSENT IN BODY, BUT PRESENT IN SPIRIT, HAVE JUDGED ALREADY, AS THOUGH I WAS PRESENT, CONCERNING HIM THAT HAD DONE THIS DEED. <----------------------- 1 Corinthians 5: 1 - 3

And again it is written:

In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, when you are gathered together and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ. 1 Corinthians 5: 4

How was Paul present with them in his Spirit and knowing what was going on when he was physically located in another geographical location, Chuck? His spirit was there. God is a Spirit. He is present right now reading this and will confirm to you through Scripture that the way this was possible is that Paul had the baptism of the Holy Spirit. You need the baptism of the Holy Spirit, brother. That is what is missing here.

It is written: But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit. - 1 Corinthians 6: 17
____________----
Chuck writes:

4. God is holy (1 John 1:5), but even human &#8220;righteous&#8221; deeds are as filthy garments before
God (Isa. 64:6);
_______________________-
My response:
Our righteousness apart from him is filthy rags but we have the righteousness of God through Christ Jesus, Chuck. This is what is given to the individual who accepts Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior upon being "born again"..

It is written:

For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin, that we might be the righteousness of God in him. - 2 Corinthians 5: 21
________________________________
Chuck writes:
5. God is eternal (Ps. 90:2), but humanity was created at a point in time (Gen. 1:1, 26-27);
________________________________--

My response:


We were created in Gods image. We are a spirit, that lives in a body and has a soul.

It is written:

And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness, and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

- Genesis 1: 26

It is written:

God is a Spirit, and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Spirits do not die. The live on eternally. God made us in His image. We will either live eternally with God or eternally separated from God. One or the other. It is our choice entirely.

_____________________-
Chuck writes:


6. God is truth (John 14:6), but a human heart (since the Fall) is deceitful above all else
(Jer. 17:9);
_______________--
My response:

Here is what God also says about the heart:

It is written:

But what saith it? THE WORD IS NIGH THEE, EVEN IN THY MOUTH, AND IN THY HEART, that is, the word of faith, which we preach:

That if thou shall confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, AND SHALL BELIEVE IN THINE HEART that God has raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

For ---------->WITH THE HEART<-------------- man believeth unto righteousness and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Romans 10: 8,9,10.

It is written:

Out of the abundance of the "heart" the mouth speaks. - Proverbs

It is up to the individual as to who will reign in their heart, Chuck. If Christs word dwells richly in your heart and you abide in Him and his words abide in you, his Holy Spirit will keep you from all deception. It is up to you. Not God. Paul was not deceived by any man. Neither was Peter. Why? They both were baptised in the Holy Ghost.

It is written:

But a certain man, named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession. And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles feet.

But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thy HEART to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land? Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? And after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? Why has thou conceived this thing in thine heart? Thou has not lied to men but unto God.

And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost, and great fear came on all them that heard these things. And the young men arose, wound him up, and carried him out and buried him. - Acts 5: 1 - 6

Lesson? Do not allow Satan to fill your heart after you believe on the Lord Jesus Christ as your Savior. It could cost you your life. As to how Peter and the Apostles could not be decieved? They were walking in the Power of the Holy Ghost. As it is written: But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem and Judea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth. Amazing what 12 men could do after the Baptism of the Holy Spirit isn't it?
__________________________
Chuck writes:

7. God is characterized by justice (Acts 17:31), but humankind is lawless (1 John 3:4; see
also Rom. 3:23);
_________________________
My reply:


It is written: The integrity of the upright shall guide them but the perverseness of transgressors shall destroy them. - Proverbs 11:13

Let me quote this saint in the matter of lawless ones and their fate:

William Gurnall said in his sermon from Fastening the Belt of Truth from Christian in Compete Armour--> this quote: that despite all his clever strategies to save himself the hypocrite eventually sinks into his own instability, but sincerity holds the Christian safe above all dangers. In Psalm 78:9 The children of Ephraim being armed, and carrying bows, turned back in the day of battle. Why? Because their hearts were not right within them and their spirit was not steadfast with God.
Before a defective bow is bent, you cannot see anything wrong with it. But when you draw the arrow to the head it flies to pieces. This is exactly what happens to a false heart when it is put under stress. Sincerity, however, keeps the soul pure in the face of temptation. "He that walketh uprightly walketh surely". - Proverbs 10: 9 - William Gurnall

One more from Gurnall from his sermon on the Evidence of your Calling - Gurnall says the following: And Job was not without this evidence either when he appealed to every corner of his heart by His heavy hand - "Thou knowest I am not wicked" ( Job 10:7 )
- William Gurnall - Christian in Compete Armour - Sermon Evidence of Your Calling -

This is the very same man we read about in Job 1, There was a man in the land of Uz, whos name was Job and that man was "perfect" and upright, and one that "feared God" and eschewed evil.

And again from William Gurnall from his sermon, Wait on God: When someone brings a candle into the dark room we stir around and look for the thing lost and soon we find it what we had groped for in darkness for hours. We can gauge more of our spiritual condition in a moment of his revelation than in days or weeks of His withdrawl. Carefully watch for the seasons when God comes to you, take advantage of them. But even if God chooses to hide the treasure from your sight, comfort yourself. He knows your sincerity is real whether you can see it or not. <-----------Note from me * this last one is for those whose hearts are sincere towards God and God will work out the rest in His own time. But as for the hypocrites who play church and revel in their own false teachings - they shall see what that avails them on the day persecution floods this nation. Because on that day they will be no where to be found. It is what hirelings do. They flee when the wolf strikes to devour the sheep. It is what they have always done. The bible tells us that.
____________________________-
Chuck writes:

8. God is love (Eph. 2:4-5), but human relationships are plagued with numerous vices like
jealousy and strife (1 Cor. 3:3).[/quote]
______________________________----
My response:


That is the worlds love, Chuck, carnal love which is fleshly and not of the Spirit. The fruit of Gods love has no such thing in it.

It is written:

Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self - seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no records of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices in the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. Love never fails. - 1 Corinthians 13 : 4 -8



________________________
Chuck writes:

I cling to the cross because we can't earn salvation and we will never be good enough because in Adam we all die.

_______________--
My response:

You must let the cross do its work in you though, Chuck. Before you believed? It was impossible. Now that you have believed? There is no excuse not to allow the cross to have its work in you. You must deny yourself, take up your cross and follow Jesus who is the second Adam and did what the first Adam could not do. You are right in that you did not earn your salvation. None of us did. But if we neglect so great a salvation and do not do what Christ has called us to do what then shall become of us?
_______________________--
Chuck writes:
"And he said, I have this fire burning in my soul, it makes a man warm and it makes a man whole. When the sun goes down and the day is through, to live and walk like Jesus did is the best a man can do."-Dennis Agajanian[/QUOTE]
______________________________
My response:


I do not know who Dennis Agajanian is but to live and walk as Jesus did is all that any of us as believers are required to do. If we walk after the Spirit and not after the flesh we will walk as he did.

It is written:

My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have one who speaks to the Father in our defense - Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.
We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. The man who says, "I know him, but does not do what he commands is a liar," and the truth is not in him. But if any man obeys his word, God's love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him:
Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did. 1 John 2: 1 - 6

I pray this blessed you as much as it blessed me to write it, Chuck. Truly if any man obeys his Word, God's love is truly made complete in him. That is the sum of this walk! It is a Love Walk! Without obedience to Christ, abiding in Him ( John 15 ), it is impossible to bear fruit. Amen. Have a blessed day, everyone.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

I hope that by underlining your writings and dividing my reply to you, it is easier to read, Chuck.

I have encountered people who have desired to persecute me over my insistence that it is the baptism of the Holy Spirit that makes the difference in a persons walk with God and their ability to do what they cannot do apart from the Spirit of God helping them. ( which is why the Holy Spirit is also called the Helper )

I believe it confirms the teaching in Galatians.

Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now. - Galatians 5: 28,29

 

[The Irish Ram]

Christ lived a sinless life here as an example for us to emulate. His love for us while we were still sinners is amazing to me. It is hard for us to embrace the ungodly, but not for Him. Thank God..

Jeri, funny thing about tithing. When Jesus was asked about tithing his comment was, "as well you should......."
Tithing freed up the preacher from having to provide for himself, thus giving him more time to pray on our behalf. It supports the church by keeping it functioning. But the churches have become so corrupt it takes some homework to make sure you are being a good steward of the money when you tithe. And tithing and charity are two completely different things.

Tithing is an action where God doesn't require faith. Concerning tithing God says, "Test me on this." The return on investment is mind blowing. Tithing done correctly yields an abundance far beyond your initial deposit. It's easy money and worth the sacrifice. It's like having a machine that spits out a one hundred dollar bill every time you deposit a dollar. And it is guaranteed.

I love the arrangement personally, and bank on it literally, just because God promised and I know it works. I can't buy a piece of property that doesn't become worth it's weight in gold as soon as I settle in. I know that is God's handiwork.

Jesus had unprotected and pre-marital sex with a prostitute. If it sounds like a sin and walks like a sin...

WHAT? The condom dispenser in the men's room must have been broken then. lol.
Where on earth did you come up with that garbage?

 

[MonaGonna]

Christ lived a sinless life here as an example for us to emulate. His love for us while we were still sinners is amazing to me. It is hard for us to embrace the ungodly, but not for Him. Thank God..

Jeri, funny thing about tithing. When Jesus was asked about tithing his comment was, "as well you should......."
Tithing freed up the preacher from having to provide for himself, thus giving him more time to pray on our behalf. It supports the church by keeping it functioning. But the churches have become so corrupt it takes some homework to make sure you are being a good steward of the money when you tithe. And tithing and charity are two completely different things.

Tithing is an action where God doesn't require faith. Concerning tithing God says, "Test me on this." The return on investment is mind blowing. Tithing done correctly yields an abundance far beyond your initial deposit. It's easy money and worth the sacrifice. It's like having a machine that spits out a one hundred dollar bill every time you deposit a dollar. And it is guaranteed.

I love the arrangement personally, and bank on it literally, just because God promised and I know it works. I can't buy a piece of property that doesn't become worth it's weight in gold as soon as I settle in. I know that is God's handiwork.

Jesus had unprotected and pre-marital sex with a prostitute. If it sounds like a sin and walks like a sin...

WHAT? The condom dispenser in the men's room must have been broken then. lol.
Where on earth did you come up with that garbage?

Didn't he **** Mary Magdalene? Were they married? Did Jesus like it? (Apparently not, he only did it once). Was God sowing his wild oats through the son he made?

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Christ lived a sinless life here as an example for us to emulate. His love for us while we were still sinners is amazing to me. It is hard for us to embrace the ungodly, but not for Him. Thank God..

Jeri, funny thing about tithing. When Jesus was asked about tithing his comment was, "as well you should......."
Tithing freed up the preacher from having to provide for himself, thus giving him more time to pray on our behalf. It supports the church by keeping it functioning. But the churches have become so corrupt it takes some homework to make sure you are being a good steward of the money when you tithe. And tithing and charity are two completely different things.

Tithing is an action where God doesn't require faith. Concerning tithing God says, "Test me on this." The return on investment is mind blowing. Tithing done correctly yields an abundance far beyond your initial deposit. It's easy money and worth the sacrifice. It's like having a machine that spits out a one hundred dollar bill every time you deposit a dollar. And it is guaranteed.

I love the arrangement personally, and bank on it literally, just because God promised and I know it works. I can't buy a piece of property that doesn't become worth it's weight in gold as soon as I settle in. I know that is God's handiwork.

Jesus had unprotected and pre-marital sex with a prostitute. If it sounds like a sin and walks like a sin...

WHAT? The condom dispenser in the men's room must have been broken then. lol.
Where on earth did you come up with that garbage?

Tithing is the law, Irish Ram. Jesus said that to the Jews who followed the law but missed the greater things such as the responsibility of taking care of their own parents, etc. He had not yet went to the cross. A person who refuses to take care of their own family member is worse than an infidel and has departed from the faith. That is scripture too, you know? ( and no where does it say we should "pre-qualify them" as worthy of the help)

The new testament teaching is God loves a cheerful giver. Be led by the Spirit of God in your giving. You'll find you are giving more than 10% anyhow. That is my testimony. As for the "God is a the slot machine Gospel" . . . I have heard it all before, sow your seed for that cadillac, name it and claim it, blab it and grab it, sow this and that will come back, etc. I don't give to God to get anything back and if that were my reason for giving I'd have to repent for it. It isn't and it never will be. I give when I see a need, when the Holy Spirit speaks to my heart and says give to that person? I do it.

I'm very blessed - God moves before I have the opportunity to even ask him to move on a situation.. my home is covered, my kids are covered - even when they are in disobedience - I pray over them as Job prayed over his own because he knew they may sin against God - I'm content in my walk with God. I am not sin conscious.. I am God conscious.. All the time. Not when I want something. But all the time. I'm not in agreement with what I have seen preached on the airwaves before. You can count me out for that one. I don't follow men. I follow Christ.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Jesus had unprotected and pre-marital sex with a prostitute. If it sounds like a sin and walks like a sin...

WHAT? The condom dispenser in the men's room must have been broken then. lol.
Where on earth did you come up with that garbage?

Didn't he **** Mary Magdalene? Were they married? Did Jesus like it? (Apparently not, he only did it once). Was God sowing his wild oats through the son he made?

Oh God. You and Da Vinci. You refuse the truth in the Bible and yet cling to the truth of fiction writer Dan Brown as gospel?

You are referring to Mary of Magdala. Who was NOT a prostitute. Was labeled a prostitute as a symbol of unclean womanhood by the Catholic church before she was venerated. She probably came from wealth. She loved the Lord, and was 1 among many women who followed, cared for, sewed for, and cooked for the whole group.

There is NOTHING to suggest that anything other than devotion to God occurred between Christ and Mary. That He kissed her on the lips is no more or less traditional than the men who kissed each other on the lips when they greeted each other is.

He made you too. Do you think He takes any satisfaction in your behavior?

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Jesus was never married, neither was Paul married. Paul chose not to marry so he could be mindful of the things of God as he wished to emulate the life of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. Who was about His Fathers business. Not his own. Paul made it clear that it would be more difficult to have a wife but he never said it was a requirement to be a priest of the Lord. The Apostle Peter was married. I do not know what to say for Mona except that she may have seen a Hollywood movie that sought to blaspheme Christ and not realizing this mistook it for being based on biblical truth? In any case, she is mistaken.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

To balance out the discussion on Gods holiness and our call to an obedient life in Christ I would like to share a few messages by Gurnall which speak to the wonderful Grace of our Lord as we are working out our own salvations here.......

Truly his Grace and Mercy is Abundant!

From William Gurnalls Christian in Compete Armor sermon Wait on God. Here is a brief sermon one of the evidences of a true heart towards God ( not perfect but true...sincere....... )

Wait on God by William Gurnall - preacher from the 1600's -

You might search all over the field and still not discover treasure hidden there. The only way we can "know the things which are freely given to us of God" is by God's Spirit. ( 1 Corinthians 2:12 ) He lives in God's ordinances as a governor works in his graces - evidences of heaven - sealed in our consciences.
Go to God's Spirit and wait. The fact that you are at the right door is comforting in itself. Even if you knock a long time but do not hear anyone coming, you should not feel ashamed. Eglon's servants waited for a dead man ( Judges 3:25 ) but you are waiting for a living God, who hears from heaven every know you have ever given on earth.

He is a loving God who hears your prayers and sees your tears.

And even if he seems like a stanger, as Joseph appeared to his brothers, He is so big with Mercy that He will soon fall on your neck and ease His heart by accepting and acknowledging you, and His Grace in you.

Lift up your head, then - but remember you cannot set times for God Almighty. The sun rises at its own hour, no matter what time you decide it should come up. Sometimes God comes to you in an ordinance and his heavenly light radiates in your innermost being while He quickens His Word to you. But have you not spent other nights on your face wresting with God, wondering why He did not satisfy your soul?

When someone brings a candle into the dark room we stir around and look for the thing we have lost and soon we find what we had groped for in the darkness for hours. We can gauge more of our spiritual condition in a moment of His revelation than in days or weeks of His withdrawl. Carefully watch for the seasons when God comes to you, take advantage of them. But even if God chooses to hide the treasure from your sight, comfort yourself. He knows your sincerity is real whether you can see it or not?


From the Sermons of William Gurnall Wait on God - Christian in complete Armor -
_________________-
This should make the most fretful person seeking God leap with joy but if not - hold fast as there are two more evidences and you should see those too.

 

[Chuckt]

Jesus was never married, neither was Paul married. Paul chose not to marry so he could be mindful of the things of God as he wished to emulate the life of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. Who was about His Fathers business. Not his own. Paul made it clear that it would be more difficult to have a wife but he never said it was a requirement to be a priest of the Lord. The Apostle Peter was married. I do not know what to say for Mona except that she may have seen a Hollywood movie that sought to blaspheme Christ and not realizing this mistook it for being based on biblical truth? In any case, she is mistaken.

I hope that by underlining your writings and dividing my reply to you, it is easier to read, Chuck.

I have encountered people who have desired to persecute me over my insistence that it is the baptism of the Holy Spirit that makes the difference in a persons walk with God and their ability to do what they cannot do apart from the Spirit of God helping them. ( which is why the Holy Spirit is also called the Helper )

I believe it confirms the teaching in Galatians.

Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now. - Galatians 5: 28,29

No persecution. Just a desire for truth and fellowship.
Just a desire for the gospel.