I can prove a God in some form exists using physics.

[☭proletarian☭]

That's one of the main purposes of religion. To teach people those laws and to teach them how to learn more of them so that you can learn to become like God.

Get behind me, Satan!

I see. You cant read. That explains alot.

I can read well enough to know you promise the same thing as the serpent and that you don't know when to use an apostrophe.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

le facepalm

dumb as toast holocaust denier...

truth hurts, eh?

or do you want to "revise" those facts, too?

*yawn*

Lies and personal attacks reveal your dearth of rational rebuttal.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

Ahh yes a late revision to christianity.

I was taught that they were days. And this was by authorized representatives of God.
Of god were to exist I do not think he would change to suit the whims of mankind.

One would have to wonder how a day would have needed to be a 24 hour perior when there was no sun, moon, stars, or any evidence of the earth rotating for several days.

One also has to wonder how there was night and day and grass on the earth before the sun existed.

 

[amrchaos]

Which came first, the dinosaur or the egg?

Not understanding every detail of something does not mean 'God' is the conclusion.

Not understanding every detail of something suppose to lead to more questions, not GOD!!

Unless GOD is a question itself??

 

[JD_2B]

[FONT=&quot]

Gawd works in mysterious ways.

aka magic.

The coolest thing about the bible and the story of Genesis (the account of how everything was created, or more specifically "formed") is that the six days of creation were not 24 hour days, like some people would like to assume they were.

There was no magic wand involved, I can assure you.

I've heard that argument before but it still doesn't make sense. Why call it a DAY as a unit of measure if it doesn't conform to our concept of a 24 hour period. In fact, why count 6 of these arbitrary time frames at all if we assume that they do not conform to our standard measure of a day? Why not 3? Why no 345? Especially given the emphasis on the 7th day of rest.

while I agree that the concept of this creation time frame doesn't require merely 24 hours I think it's pretty silly to believe that the assumption of longer, undefined "days" adds any validity to an otherwise asinine god story. The coolest thing about the genesis version of creation is that it illustrates how human beings try so hard to define that which is unknowable and crafts a religion around it. Which is, I daresay, a human standard across the cultural spectrum.

Because BEFORE the days began, God created the heavens and earth. It wasn't until the first "day of the creation" that God said "let there be light"... And even that light was not the light belonging to the sun. The sun was not created until the Fourth day.

It was not until the FOURTH day that God created TIME. Therefore, each DAY that is discussed in the book of Genesis is not LITERALLY intended to mean a 24 hour period. Those are GOD days. A God day can be a very very long time, assuming that he has been around forever, (or for some indefinite period of time, which would seem immortal at least to us) and has eternity to make and create stuff.

All that it is saying is that he was in the process of MAKING days and nights.. not that days and nights already existed. They were in the process of being made. There was light, yes, and there was dark, yes- but that light and dark was intermeshed, and needed some assistance to make days and nights discernable to man.
Moses is only describing the thought processes and love that God put into forming it all.. The Earth, in the "beginning" - did not have a shape.. See- it was shapeless, just like a blob of clay, on a pottery wheel. Impossible to describe as anything but formless.

The "light", is probably not even a reference to actual Light, like the kind we get from light rays, anyways. Light is in reference to LOVE. He is saying "Let there be love".
Around this time, was when the angel Lucifer got jealous, and because of that jealousy, he became DARK. God wanted to keep the darkness separate from light. (Separate Good and Evil) God wanted a GOOD place, a place of obedience and love- not a place where wretched inhabitants follow the "dark side" and do evil things.

If it was a reference to an actual light, as though it was a ray of light- then the light was not a very strong presence yet, obviously. That light took the larger portion of the first four days of creation, to fully form, as you will plainly see. There are several references that indicate that the light and dark were hard for him to keep apart. See, he is all powerful, but I don't believe that even God is perfect. Good/ Great- yes- Perfect- well- he is probably the closest to perfect there is, so we think of him that way, but is he really perfect? No not really. Not that I am complaining.. =)
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis%201&version=KJV[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]Genesis 1[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 1In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 2And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 3And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 4And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 5And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 6And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 7And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 8And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 9And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 10And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 11And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 12And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 13And the evening and the morning were the third day. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 14And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 15And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 16And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 17And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 18And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 19And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]All of this is very much in line with the concept of a Godless beginning to all that we currently know. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] Also, Adam and Eve were told that they would "surely die within the day"- and yet they both lived for over 800 years. I also quoted the verses showing that, here, also.
[/FONT]
Genesis 2:17
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]Genesis 5:5
Altogether, Adam lived 930 years, and then he died.
[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] Clearly, Adam did not die "in the day" that he ate from the tree.. He dies within 1,000 years. In this context, a day is worth one thousand years.
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Plus, you cannot possibly say that a day was 24 hours. Adam and Eve would not be able to name all of the animals, if they were only a "day old". And here are some more indications that the work of God was scientific, and in tune with our current level of understanding evolution and origins of life.. [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
Genesis 2:7And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
9And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
19And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 21And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof; [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 22And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 23And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
I don't know if you have ever heard of asexual reproduction, but the fact that Adam started with an X and Y chromosome, and Eve had two X chromosomes, should lend some credit to this. The rib was really a chromosome being taken, being used to create a woman.

There are loads of scientific truths in the Bible which were not believed by the scientific community, for literally thousands of years...

Here is another one, I am sure will amaze you: God said it would flood, 120 years before it actually flooded.

Liberty Gospel Tracts - Previous Questions and Answers - How many years did it take Noah to build the ark?

[/FONT]Genesis 6:3


3 Then the LORD said, "My Spirit will not contend with [a] man forever, for he is mortal [b] ; his days will be a hundred and twenty years."

1. Genesis 7:4
   Seven days from now I will send rain on the earth for forty days and forty nights, and I will wipe from the face of the earth every living creature I have made."
   Genesis 7:3-5 (in Context) Genesis 7 (Whole Chapter)
2. Genesis 7:12
   And rain fell on the earth forty days and forty nights.

As you can see- a day is never really a "day" as we know it. In this case, we can count the months from God's promise, and use Moses's age, as a reference- It took 120 days before the rain began, not seven days.

A day is not literal, whatsoever, in the Bible.

[FONT=&quot]


[/FONT]

 

[☭proletarian☭]

Posting bible pages in tiny red text...

Why bother making a post you clearly don't want anyone to read?

 

[geauxtohell]

Because BEFORE the days began, God created the heavens and earth.....

You're argument is fine, it's just not new. It's the typical Christian Apologist approach to reconcile what is in the book of Genesis with what we actually observe in nature.

In the end it's an article of faith. No one can tell you your wrong, but you can't tell everyone you are right either.

 

[JD_2B]

Because BEFORE the days began, God created the heavens and earth.....

You're argument is fine, it's just not new. It's the typical Christian Apologist approach to reconcile what is in the book of Genesis with what we actually observe in nature.

In the end it's an article of faith. No one can tell you your wrong, but you can't tell everyone you are right either.

But all belief regarding the origin of life is faith based- So nobody can tell me I am wrong, either.

Someone believing that the Big Bang happened without anyone there, or anything to actually cause it- is faith based, and illogical from my perspective.

See- I am not concerned about where God came from, or if there is really only one God, or one universe, etc.. I am old enough to understand that those questions do not HAVE answers that can be proven scientifically. As such, I do not see the point in asking them, much less debating them. It always ends at the same point- the point that the discussion can never move away from, which is this:

Person A has faith that life began without the assistance of intelligence, and cannot prove it.
Person B has faith that life began with the assistance of intelligence, and cannot prove it.

My post was only in debate to the concept of a Genesis "day" being a 24 hour period. I do not like to be described as a "christian apologetic". I have nothing to apologize for. My beliefs are that YES there is a God, or more than one, perhaps, but all in all that there is a superior being. Your belief is that there is no God. (and perhaps you believe in God because you need something tangible to believe in a diety, or maybe at some point, you "gave up" on God- because you were hearing too many negative things, or life wasn't going very well- I really don't know.. but I can relate to it, in any event.)

So why debate this? Where is the discussion really going to go, for either of us? Nowhere fast.

All I know is that no person, no matter how insane and delusional- could possibly "dream up" a God. Nobody could simply "dream up" ghosts (I don't believe in Ghosts, but the images of ghosts are real, I just believe that the images are not the equivalent to actual spirit people, and only a manifestation of Satan causing himself to look like a ghost, to try and deceive people into believing that something good happens after they die, thereby glorifying death, etc.. ).. Nobody could dream this shit up.

The impossible CAN be dreamed, if the impossible dream contains only elements of possibility. For instance- flying purple elephants with glittery polka dots, who lay eggs and can fly to the moon and back safely. That is an impossible dream that is not impossible TO dream.

Purple is a naturally occurring color.
Elephants are real.
Glitter is real.
Eggs are real.
Flying animals are real.
Flying to the moon is real.

Imagining a person who is dead, being "spiritually alive"- or a ghost- impossible to do. One cannot imagine the unimaginable.

So the next time you think that this is all in our imagination, just remember that your words are uttering only the impossible. We didnt just dream it all up one day.

 

[Avatar4321]

Get behind me, Satan!

I see. You cant read. That explains alot.

I can read well enough to know you promise the same thing as the serpent and that you don't know when to use an apostrophe.

The Serpents promise and lie was that they would not die. For as God mentioned, man did become as the gods knowing good from evil. If you understood the scriptures youd realize the whole point of the Gospel is to make us like God.

1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.

2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure. (1 John 3:1-3)

We are supposed to be made joint heirs with Christ and inheret all God has. We are supposed to recieve knowledge, character, power, glory etc. It's not a mistake that those who recieve the Word are called gods. It's not a mistake that God is teaching us how to do act and not just be acted upon.

Not exactly the type of discussion i expected to get in on this thread. but it's appropriate. Too few people truly see what God is trying to do with us.

 

[Montrovant]

Imagining a person who is dead, being "spiritually alive"- or a ghost- impossible to do. One cannot imagine the unimaginable.

So the next time you think that this is all in our imagination, just remember that your words are uttering only the impossible. We didnt just dream it all up one day.

What reason do you have for assuming these concepts are unimaginable? I think you greatly underestimate the power of imagination, or possibly you are projecting the limits of your own imagination onto everyone else. Please don't take that as an insult; it is in no way meant to be. We all have different places our imaginations take us and different limits to what we can imagine. I don't see why the idea of ghosts or an afterlife are unimaginable. To try and put it in the same way you did :

People are real.
People are alive.

Imagining that those people somehow continue to live on after death may or may not be impossible, but in no way seems unimaginable.

 

[Zona]

The noted Scientist and twitter extraordinaire Sarah said the earth is 6000 years old.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

The Serpents promise and lie was that they would not die.

-but would be like god in knowing good and evil

For as God mentioned, man did become as the gods knowing good from evil. If you understood the scriptures youd realize the whole point of the Gospel is to make us like God.

So the point of your 'good news' is to make good on Satan's promise?

 

[☭proletarian☭]

Would not a understanding of language and the Torah lead one to conclude that Jesus is a servant of satan who seeks to m,islead Man? and has ot the numerous interpretations of Christendom captured the minds of much of humanity with contradictory messages?

 

[creativedreams]

How then does physics explain the origin and creation of god?... Because an invisible, out of this world, imaginary skyfairy hippie thats always been there must be the answer.

Depends on your definition of a God.

I'm referring to a God as we know it.......the creator of OUR universe.

You guys are leaving out the impossibilities living tissue existing or being created out of dead matter...... which is all that existed just after the big bang.

 

[creativedreams]

If anyone here wants to claim that there is no such thing as a second universe- that there could be no such thing as a second universe, etc.. then they are ignoring the fact that our own universe is not finite, but a rapidly expanding one, which happens to be full of life.
Why would God make an expanding universe, if we were to be the only ones within it?

That is just silly.

Surely, any good scientist knows that life and the potential for life exists not only on planet Earth.

I believe that there may be more than one God.. one per universe, but that we personally only have One God, over Earth.

I belive in God because of science. The first law of thermodynamics states that energy can be transformed, but cannot be created or destroyed. This combined with a bicycle I rode on at the museum of science and industry, which lit up a light bulb, thereby converting MY energy into light, was proof enough for me that Light can, and HAS been created.. Not the energy that made the light, but the light itself. I MADE the light come on. I even said "Let there be light" Poof! and there was...
I don't really give a shit where all the energy came from before the Big Bang, if that is even what really happened. Why waste my energy on that kind of crap. I have spent enough time pondering this question.. I would rather use my energy on questions that CAN be tested and answered, rather than the mysteries to the origins of Everything that IS.

I have yet to hear anyone try to claim that the Big Bang started with nothingness, because without fail, they always say that two negatives can create a positive..

Sorry guys, but there has to FIRST (there is your timeline) EXIST (there are your things/ units of energy/ what have you) two negatives in order to combine and make one positive. Bang! Thank ya God, for all that you gave us.

Thanks, this is a very good post.

I do care about the energy before the big bang.

I have a similar theory on how God exists and look at it in terms of the creator of OUR universe.

I haven't thought of it as one God per planet with life but have explored the one God per Universe.

I began to see it this way when I get into the existing energy of each universe and how it relates to living tissue.

Many self proclaimed authorities on the universe are leaving out the impossibilities living tissue existing or being created out of dead matter...... which is all that existed just after the big bang.

 

[JW Frogen]

Is God the judge or the judged?

Are we God's creation or is God our creation?

I have no idea, I do not "know", this simple JW ape does not know.

I simply experience God.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

You guys are leaving out the impossibilities living tissue existing or being created out of dead matter...... which is all that existed just after the big bang.

Noone said anything about dead matter related living matter.

Things must be alive before they can be die and become dead.

 

[AVG-JOE]

If you think that rdean, no wonder you arent religious. It doesnt start with the answers. Its there to teach you how to get more answers. Atleast if its doing it right. There are some people who refuse to look for answers just as some so called scientists do. Take the global warming hoax. The scientists started with the answers they just needed to manipulate the data to support it.

Religion is about the investigation into the spiritual world.

To the continued, unfettered investigation of and quest for truth!

 

[AVG-JOE]

There is absolutely no tangible proof that god exists. Only a belief....and that's fine and dandy....

Unless of course, you've seen Him.

Seeing him does NOT make for 'tangible proof' unless you can hold his hand and show him to someone who does not already believe he is there, proselytizing the weak of mind not withstanding...

 

[AVG-JOE]

The initial premise is intriguing, it does not of course prove the existence of God, but to those atheists of certainty who state that science has dispensed with God, well, no science has not.

What came before the Big Bang? When we find out I am sure we will have another question to answer about why there is being rather than nothingness.

I believe in God (though my concept of God would not please any of the major world’s religions) because I have experienced God, I have no choice.

But I could never prove it to anyone else; they too must experience and interpret in their own way.

I don’t think God can be proved, God can only be experienced.

Just be careful not to write off as an experience with God the profound and wonderful experience of being alive and being human.

There is truly no other experience that we know of more documented or wonderful.