Hunters....you still think they don't want your guns too......banning lead ammo...

[Old Rocks]

Obviously wind turbines should all be thickly coated in Nerf material.

Wind turbines are killing condors

Credit: BY JIM WIEGAND: Special to Western Outdoor News: Oct 07, 2009 wonews.com ~~

Two of California’s highest priority environmental causes — promoting renewable energy and saving the California condor — are on a collision course. The proliferation of prop wind turbines and their well-documented history of killing birds of prey have put the future of the California condor at great risk.

Wind turbines are killing condors Wind Energy News
​

Instead of being silly, perhaps we should consider the engineering solutions that would allow us to have the power from the mills and the birds.

 

[Missourian]

Obviously wind turbines should all be thickly coated in Nerf material.

Wind turbines are killing condors

Credit: BY JIM WIEGAND: Special to Western Outdoor News: Oct 07, 2009 wonews.com ~~

Two of California’s highest priority environmental causes — promoting renewable energy and saving the California condor — are on a collision course. The proliferation of prop wind turbines and their well-documented history of killing birds of prey have put the future of the California condor at great risk.

Wind turbines are killing condors Wind Energy News
​

Instead of being silly, perhaps we should consider the engineering solutions that would allow us to have the power from the mills and the birds.

I agree. In the mean time, they should be shut down. Sure, it will be an enormous financial loss, but the condors are an important part to California eco-diversity, so everyone will agree that it is worth the cost.

 

[Old Rocks]

OK. I see your point. At the same time, because we are also losing condors to lead poisoning, ban all lead bullets.

 

[Ravi]

No, they are grants for conservation.

They are grants for conservation because Ducks Unlimited does what the State does not in providing for the Conservation.
They qualify for the grants when applicable because they have met the requirements applicable in the law.

You ask for proof you essentially provide in your objections and still fail to see the connection.
What is wrong with you ... How can you be so jaded as to continue to fail to understand how the actual conservation you desire takes place?

Instead of attempting to discredit any attempts by others to more effectively and efficiently accomplish the goals necessary ... Get your head out of your ass and look at the writing on the wall.

.

The government gives DU funds to provide for conservation. How does that equal the state not providing?

I've not discredited anything. I asked you for a link to show that hunting fees provide more support than tax funding. Still waiting.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

My friend who is a hunter says he doesn't care if they ban handguns.....he still has his shotgun for hunting....and I asked him...do you really think they don't mind your shotgun...and that they won't come for that as soon as hand guns get banned? And I would point out.....they will use environentalists and animal rights extremists to get that shotgun......and here is one step.....making hunting more expensive...by banning the ammo they use.......

California Officially Bans Hunters From Using Lead Bullets The Daily Caller

The National Shooting Sports Foundation released a survey last year saying that “higher ammunition prices will drive 36 percent of California hunters to stop hunting or reduce their participation.”


What was the main reason for stopping or reducing hunting? A 300 percent price difference between lead bullets and non-lead bullets, depending on the type of round. Non-lead bullets make up only a small percentage of the ammunition market and manufacturers say they would have a hard time ramping up production of this ammo without serious price increases.

Lead ammo's bad for the enviroment. Shouldn't even be available in the 21st century.

 

[August West]

Obviously wind turbines should all be thickly coated in Nerf material.

Wind turbines are killing condors

Credit: BY JIM WIEGAND: Special to Western Outdoor News: Oct 07, 2009 wonews.com ~~

Two of California’s highest priority environmental causes — promoting renewable energy and saving the California condor — are on a collision course. The proliferation of prop wind turbines and their well-documented history of killing birds of prey have put the future of the California condor at great risk.

Wind turbines are killing condors Wind Energy News
​

Instead of being silly, perhaps we should consider the engineering solutions that would allow us to have the power from the mills and the birds.

I agree. In the mean time, they should be shut down. Sure, it will be an enormous financial loss, but the condors are an important part to California eco-diversity, so everyone will agree that it is worth the cost.

Good idea. Shut down the turbines and focus more on blowing the tops off of mountains for coal. Birds come and go but this obscenity is permanent.
West Virginia Mountaintop Coal Removal Photos - Business Insider

 

[WinterBorn]

No, they are grants for conservation.

They are grants for conservation because Ducks Unlimited does what the State does not in providing for the Conservation.
They qualify for the grants when applicable because they have met the requirements applicable in the law.

You ask for proof you essentially provide in your objections and still fail to see the connection.
What is wrong with you ... How can you be so jaded as to continue to fail to understand how the actual conservation you desire takes place?

Instead of attempting to discredit any attempts by others to more effectively and efficiently accomplish the goals necessary ... Get your head out of your ass and look at the writing on the wall.

.

The government gives DU funds to provide for conservation. How does that equal the state not providing?

I've not discredited anything. I asked you for a link to show that hunting fees provide more support than tax funding. Still waiting.

Paying to Play in the Great Outdoors PERC The Property and Environment Research Center
"Consider state natural resource departments. Historically, about 90 percent of state fish and wildlife budgets were derived from hunters and anglers. These were primarily generated from sales of hunting and fishing licenses, as well as excise taxes on guns, ammunition, and fishing gear. The rest was made up of general fund appropriations, sales taxes, lotteries, and other sources on a state-by-state basis."

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

"Hunters....you still think they don't want your guns too......banning lead ammo..."

This is a lie and unfounded demagoguery.

Appropriate and legitimate concerns with regard to lead and the environment is not some sort of nefarious 'conspiracy' to 'confiscate' guns.

 

[2aguy]

"Hunters....you still think they don't want your guns too......banning lead ammo..."

This is a lie and unfounded demagoguery.

Appropriate and legitimate concerns with regard to lead and the environment is not some sort of nefarious 'conspiracy' to 'confiscate' guns.

Yes it is........

 

[WinterBorn]

"Hunters....you still think they don't want your guns too......banning lead ammo..."

This is a lie and unfounded demagoguery.

Appropriate and legitimate concerns with regard to lead and the environment is not some sort of nefarious 'conspiracy' to 'confiscate' guns.

Yes it is........

Lead in every facet of our lives has been banned. Lead paint has been banned. Lead toys have been banned. The shit is poison. Now I am a hunter and a shooter. I am in many of the gun threads arguing FOR the 2nd Amendment. But banning lead bullets is not some nefarious conspiracy. It is an attempt to remove a poison from being sprayed around.

How much did shotgun shell prices go up when steel shot was required?

 

[2aguy]

This is just low hanging fruit for the gun grabbers...and they can hide the agenda behind the lead bullet concern........if they hadn't tried to ban the AR-15 ammo first...you guys would have a point.........

 

[WinterBorn]

This is just low hanging fruit for the gun grabbers...and they can hide the agenda behind the lead bullet concern........if they hadn't tried to ban the AR-15 ammo first...you guys would have a point.........

If banning lead had not been discussed and had not been an issue, you might have a point. But it has and is.

 

[WinterBorn]

This is just low hanging fruit for the gun grabbers...and they can hide the agenda behind the lead bullet concern........if they hadn't tried to ban the AR-15 ammo first...you guys would have a point.........

So the AR ammo ban was prior to 2013? Because, according to your link, the legislation was passed and signed in 2013.

"The lead bullet ban comes from legislation signed into law by Gov. Jerry Brown, a Democrat, in 2013 that required lead bullets to be phased out of the state by no later than 2019."

 

[2aguy]

And Jerry Brown is not a gun grabber? They will use whatever means they have to to get rid of guns......

 

[WinterBorn]

And Jerry Brown is not a gun grabber? They will use whatever means they have to to get rid of guns......

He might well be. But this is not that method. This is about removing a poison from the wilderness in which we hunt.

I don't see it being an issue for my M1911 .45ACP, since I don't hunt with it. But my .270 may well need an ammo change.

Hunters have always been stewards of the wilderness and wilds. We take care of what we have left. Lead is deadly to that wilderness. We will use an alternative.

 

[WinterBorn]

Did the cost of shotgun shells increase significantly due to the requirements for steel shot?

 

[WinterBorn]

Look 2a, I admire your dedication to maintaining our freedom and our rights. But this is overreaction. Lead is a poison. It is an issue that needs to be addressed. This "No regulations at all ever!" method of addressing issues will not do any good. It is why the NRA has lost many of its members.

The need to replace lead as a metal for bullets is not some farfetched scheme. It is a legitimate issue. Now, the question is whether or not you want hunters and shooters to be a part of the solution or whether they will be marginalized and ignored. The cost is not that much more than lead bullets. Yes, you can find examples that LOOK like there is a huge difference in price. But that is usually comparing cheap lead bullets with premium non-lead bullets.

Bullet Types

There is a good article on the issue. And if the amount you spend on bullets is so close to the edge of pricing you out of the activity, you are likely not going to be hunting long anyway. Hell, if the small increase in the price of ammo means you can't hunt any more, then a small jump in the cost of gasoline means you can't get to where you hunt any more either.

No hunter worth his salt should EVER be ok with his sport being part of the cause of the demise of a species. PERIOD. We hunters are the reason many species came back from the brink of extinction. We are why the conservation efforts survived economic downturns. We are the stewards of the wilderness.

Your link talked about bullets for hunting. Those bullets are fired into the precious wilderness we must preserve. I saw nothing that talked about requiring non-lead bullets for target shooting or self defense.

 

[Ravi]

No, they are grants for conservation.

They are grants for conservation because Ducks Unlimited does what the State does not in providing for the Conservation.
They qualify for the grants when applicable because they have met the requirements applicable in the law.

You ask for proof you essentially provide in your objections and still fail to see the connection.
What is wrong with you ... How can you be so jaded as to continue to fail to understand how the actual conservation you desire takes place?

Instead of attempting to discredit any attempts by others to more effectively and efficiently accomplish the goals necessary ... Get your head out of your ass and look at the writing on the wall.

.

The government gives DU funds to provide for conservation. How does that equal the state not providing?

I've not discredited anything. I asked you for a link to show that hunting fees provide more support than tax funding. Still waiting.

Paying to Play in the Great Outdoors PERC The Property and Environment Research Center
"Consider state natural resource departments. Historically, about 90 percent of state fish and wildlife budgets were derived from hunters and anglers. These were primarily generated from sales of hunting and fishing licenses, as well as excise taxes on guns, ammunition, and fishing gear. The rest was made up of general fund appropriations, sales taxes, lotteries, and other sources on a state-by-state basis."

Thank you, that is somewhat convincing. Yet this link shows over 700 million in grants given from state and federal funds for fish and water alone.

ERP Grants Program - California Department of Fish and Game

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

No, they are grants for conservation.

They are grants for conservation because Ducks Unlimited does what the State does not in providing for the Conservation.
They qualify for the grants when applicable because they have met the requirements applicable in the law.

You ask for proof you essentially provide in your objections and still fail to see the connection.
What is wrong with you ... How can you be so jaded as to continue to fail to understand how the actual conservation you desire takes place?

Instead of attempting to discredit any attempts by others to more effectively and efficiently accomplish the goals necessary ... Get your head out of your ass and look at the writing on the wall.

.

The government gives DU funds to provide for conservation. How does that equal the state not providing?

I've not discredited anything. I asked you for a link to show that hunting fees provide more support than tax funding. Still waiting.

Fish and Wildlife Service

 

[BlackSand]

Did the cost of shotgun shells increase significantly due to the requirements for steel shot?

There was a cost increase ... But it would only be reasonable in regards to the powder and adjusted shot expense.
You also have to add the additional expense of wear and tear on the barrel and choke apparatus ... Including replacement cost when necessary.

Still ... It isn't as much about cost as it is about change.

.