Huge Solar Fail

[Old Rocks]

Nice red herring, Westwall. Was there a point to it? Solar is still succeeding whether or not solar plants achieve 100% of rating all the time.

Oh, I see the point of it now. You're deflecting from the sad failure of all your predictions of doom. Carry on.

Solyndra?

Whippet.

 

[Old Rocks]

US Solar Industry Continues Rapid Growth

First, Telsa Motors announced that it would build a new factory in Nevada, employing 6,500 workers. Then Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid vowed to hold a vote later this year on green energy tax credits. That important announcement was quickly followed by news that the U.S. solar market hit a major milestone in the second quarter of this year with more than half a million homes and businesses now generating solar energy.

According to GTM Research and the Solar Energy Industries Association’s (SEIA) Q2 2014 U.S. Solar Market Insight Report, the U.S. installed 1,133 megawatts (MW) of solar photovoltaics (PV) in the second quarter of this year.

The residential and commercial segments accounted for nearly half of all solar PV installations in the quarter. The residential market has seen the most consistent growth of any segment for years, and its momentum shows no signs of slowing down.

Across the United States, cumulative PV and concentrating solar power (CSP) operating capacity has reached nearly 16 gigawatts (GW), enough to power more than 3.2 million homes.

Looks like someone failed to tell the solar industry that they are failing.

 

[westwall]

US Solar Industry Continues Rapid Growth

First, Telsa Motors announced that it would build a new factory in Nevada, employing 6,500 workers. Then Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid vowed to hold a vote later this year on green energy tax credits. That important announcement was quickly followed by news that the U.S. solar market hit a major milestone in the second quarter of this year with more than half a million homes and businesses now generating solar energy.

According to GTM Research and the Solar Energy Industries Association’s (SEIA) Q2 2014 U.S. Solar Market Insight Report, the U.S. installed 1,133 megawatts (MW) of solar photovoltaics (PV) in the second quarter of this year.

The residential and commercial segments accounted for nearly half of all solar PV installations in the quarter. The residential market has seen the most consistent growth of any segment for years, and its momentum shows no signs of slowing down.

Across the United States, cumulative PV and concentrating solar power (CSP) operating capacity has reached nearly 16 gigawatts (GW), enough to power more than 3.2 million homes.

Looks like someone failed to tell the solar industry that they are failing.

And the TAXPAYERS of Nevada are on the hook for 1.5 BILLION to build his giga-factory. Solar is an industry that can only exist with massive taxpayer support you twit. You could remove every fossil fuel tax break (and they are tax breaks, not subsidies as you asshats always claim) and they would still be producing a product that the world needs. We would all pay a few pennies more a gallon but they would still be here.

Take away the taxpayer dollars, and the solar industry collapses in a New York minute.

 

[Roguewave]

US Solar Industry Continues Rapid Growth

...The residential and commercial segments accounted for nearly half of all solar PV installations in the quarter...

If it was not "residential and commercial segments" which accounted for the other more than half of solar PV installations, then who was it? Martians?

 

[Old Rocks]

Utility scale projects like the one in Texas that will be selling power for the next 20 years for less than coal or gas can produce it.

 

[Spare_change]

US Solar Industry Continues Rapid Growth

...The residential and commercial segments accounted for nearly half of all solar PV installations in the quarter...

If it was not "residential and commercial segments" which accounted for the other more than half of solar PV installations, then who was it? Martians?

It was you, silly .... government subsidies were greater than individual purchases of solar PV installations ... if it wasn't for your tax dollars, the industry would be dead.

 

[Spare_change]

Utility scale projects like the one in Texas that will be selling power for the next 20 years for less than coal or gas can produce it.

... which STILL will not recover the cost to the government. Government subsidies are NOT free, and need to be included in your analysis.

NICE investment, he says .... tongue firmly planted in cheek.

 

[Old Rocks]

Hmmmmmm..................... The government in the US has always done the initial funding for new projects. From the canals in the period immediatly after we became a nation, to the establishment of the internet, government research and early investment has always been there.

 

[Spare_change]

Hmmmmmm..................... The government in the US has always done the initial funding for new projects. From the canals in the period immediatly after we became a nation, to the establishment of the internet, government research and early investment has always been there.

Unequivocally false.

The government has funded projects that were in their own best interest ... they do not fund projects developed by individuals that are focused on providing a service to the public. Pretty sure that the government didn't fund Henry Ford's development of autos, the oil business, Edison's light bulb, or television - the list can go on and on. The government HAS been the customer for some innovation development, but, in general, the investment risk of those has been borne by the developer, not the government.

The "global warming" industries is a new trend in government investment - and advocacy - for personal gain.

Unquestionably, some government projects have had spin-offs that have benefited the economy, but those are accidental events.

 

[Old Rocks]

Spare Change, you are so full of shit. Every major government project has had people that made fortunes off of it. From the Trans-continental railroad, to the Apollo Project. And many have been total failures at achieving their stated objectives, yet resounding successes when viewed from the perspective of impact on history. Corp of Discovery was one such project. Did not achieve it's major objective, cost over ten times as much as projected, and came in late.

 

[Spare_change]

Spare Change, you are so full of shit. Every major government project has had people that made fortunes off of it. From the Trans-continental railroad, to the Apollo Project. And many have been total failures at achieving their stated objectives, yet resounding successes when viewed from the perspective of impact on history. Corp of Discovery was one such project. Did not achieve it's major objective, cost over ten times as much as projected, and came in late.

LOL --- nothing like changing horse in mid-stream, huh?

First, you claim (post 68) that the government has always "done the initial funding for new projects". I, of course, responded that you were totally inaccurate, that, in fact, most 'new projects' were funded privately. (Take a look at who funded the Eads Bridge in St. Louis, for example .... or maybe, the Spruce Goose ... or virtually any advance in the aviation industry for the first 75 years).

The federal government ONLY funds projects in which they will receive a tangible benefit. They are NOT in the R&D funding business, unless it pertains to a federal government goal (Apollo Project is a good example). In truth, government funding is a relatively new concept - your reference to the Trans-Continental Railroad, while inaccurate, is a more telling example of how it used to be done.

The Trans-Continental Railroad was funded by private interests, though there was MINOR involvement by the federal government.

"Unlike the moon project, the building of the railroad was undertaken by private interests, but only after Congress passed legislation to help finance the work.

The leaders of both companies lobbied incessantly for government aid. Their efforts led to the Pacific Railroad Acts of 1862 and 1864, which provided several forms of assistance. Each railroad received its right-of-way along with a land grant of ten alternating sections on both sides of every mile of track (about 12,800 acres per mile); the government retained the sections in between. In addition, the companies received government bonds totaling $16,000 a mile for each twenty-mile section of track completed on the plains. For the plateau between the Rocky and Sierra Nevada Mountains the amount per mile went up to $32,000 per mile and for the mountain regions, $48,000. Each company could also issue its own first mortgage bonds for the same amount as the government bonds, relegating the latter to a second mortgage.


These provisions sound more generous than they were. The land grant ultimately proved valuable to both railroads but played only a minor role in financing their construction. The land was difficult to sell, in large part because it had first to be surveyed, and the overwhelmed government land office issued patents (titles) to parcels at a glacial pace. In the end the land grant helped underwrite Union Pacific construction mostly as collateral for yet another class of securities known as land-grant bonds. The government bonds have often been described as a subsidy or handout to the builders of both railroads, but they were in fact a loan that ultimately had to be repaid. Each company was, of course, responsible for paying interest on its own bonds."

Financing the Transcontinental Railroad The Gilder Lehrman Institute of American History

The same financing model was used up until about the space program ... only now, is the government seen as a large bank that could be exploited with little or no risk.

Have people made fortunes off major projects that have had some level of government investment? Sure - but only after major investments of their own to bring the program spin-offs to market (take a look at the investment involved in computer development, chips, and electronics, for example).

So, you were wrong the first time ... but, once you jumped on the other horse, you were only partially right.

 

[flacaltenn]

Not a lot of new news here. IvanPah solar is still not performing. Big Nat Gas hog in the middle of the desert. They don't even bother anymore to separate the nat gas side from the solar heating side energy generation.

BUT -- thought I bump the thread because NOW -- even govt officials are ready to call that 170,000 mirror solar Death Ray machine --- dead...


Obama-Backed Solar Plant Could Be Shut Down For Not Producing Enough Energy

Maybe you don't believe me -- but I actually thought it could work and would lend itself to LONGER periods of solar generation during the day..

 

[Skull Pilot]

The only proper use for solar and wind is for small self funded projects

Neither is suitable for large quantities of reliable power

 

[flacaltenn]

The only proper use for solar and wind is for small self funded projects

Neither is suitable for large quantities of reliable power

Solar's main use in the right geographical region is to be about 10 to 15% Mid-day peaker source to reduce the daytime peak demand by that amount. Can't reduce it FURTHER when the sun is shining. Because Demand is about 80% of daytime peak at 10PM on a summer night..

So you can "undersize" your safety margin of Supply by a smidgeon when planning for peak generation and reserves.

...................... on a GOOD day...

 

[bripat9643]

No way you are putting up an array on a house that will power it in full for ten grand. I follow the prices here, waiting for the ever promised " its going to be cheaper ...." blah blah blah.......try 20 grand ya might be close.

It costs $35,000 for a system that produces enough wattage to power a single blow dryer.

 

[Old Rocks]

Grid tie Solar Power Systems for your home - Grid-tie Home Solar Panel Systems
Qty
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$8,951.00

Shop around, and beat this price. Over the top lies are your business, Pattycake. And for utilities, the prices are coming down even faster.

 

[Old Rocks]

The prolonged plunge in fossil fuel prices is rippling across the globe. Yet it’s barely put a dent in the booming market for clean energy, heralding perhaps a new era for wind and solar.

Oil prices of less than $30 a barrel—the lowest in 12 years—have shaken stock markets and ravaged the budgets of major producers such as Russia and Saudi Arabia. Along with falling gas prices, they’ve slashed the profits of fossil fuel companies, which are delaying dozens of billion-dollar projects and laying off thousands of workers.

In Texas, home to shale-rich oil deposits, once-crowded trailer parks that housed workers are now largely empty.

But solar, wind, and other clean energy? They’re expanding. Last year, they attracted a record $329 billion in investment—nearly six times the total in 2004, according to a report this month by Bloomberg New Energy Finance or BNEF. Wind and solar also installed a record amount of power capacity.

Why Solar and Wind Are Thriving Despite Cheap Fossil Fuels

As the price of grid scale batteries comes down, the market for renewables will only increase.

 

[Old Rocks]

Battery storage is gathering momentum in the U.S. market thanks to rapidly evolving technologies and falling costs.

Batteries are rapidly becoming the dominant form of energy storage both at the grid and end-user levels, and utilities are likely to play an important role in its further growth, according to a new brief from Deloitte’sCenter for Energy Solutions.

“The emergence of battery storage is happening now, is accelerating, and it will get bigger in the next two to five years,” Andrew Slaughter, the Center’s executive director and co-author of “Electricity Storage Technologies, Impacts, and Prospects,” told Utility Dive.

Utility leaders are increasingly seeing how storage can be “dropped into strategic places in the power system, which means "they are looking at it hard and some are already going to market for storage solutions," Slaughter added.

Battery storage technology appears to be inching closer to a “sweet spot” that will likely result in falling prices, while accelerating deployment through the end of this decade, Slaughter said. “There are more opportunities for storage emerging due to the confluence of the way the economics are working and the way the grid is developing.”

With the power system diversifying both at the grid and consumer levels, utilities are increasingly seeing that “if you get storage in the right place, it de-stresses the rest of the grid, gives new reliability options, and gives the opportunity to avoid investment in generation,” he added.

A new Moody's Investor Services study foresees a significant market impact, especially since "battery prices have declined more than 50% since 2010,” the report said. “Expanded battery use will be credit negative for U.S. merchant generators…due to the subsequent lower prices for capacity and peak energy. Regulated utilities will see a smaller impact, but will face cost-shifting issues

.Why battery storage is 'just about ready to take off'

Many utilities are already making plans.