How would your ideal healthcare system work.

[EdwardBaiamonte]

An idea I have would be to import doctors from low income countries the same as big business imports foreigners here to lower workers wages.

dear capitalism would reduce prices about 80%. Doctors are not a big part of the expense in medicine

 

[CultureCitizen]

seems like he single handedly developed Mexico, created millions of jobs, and products.
This is a liberals idea of evil??

See why we say liberalism is based in pure ignornace?

Not evil , just plain greedy.
Mexico has one of the most expensive telephone and internet systems. That is changing , but slowly.
How expensive : 30 cents of a dollar for each minute using the cell phone.
He did create "America movil" which has 150,000 employees worldwide.

 

[CultureCitizen]

An idea I have would be to import doctors from low income countries the same as big business imports foreigners here to lower workers wages.

dear capitalism would reduce prices about 80%. Doctors are not a big part of the expense in medicine

Well, actually some people (1% of the US citizens ) are choosig to use the healthcare services from other countries for expensive procedures.
The cost of the surgery in the US is sometimes more expensive than the surgery plus the plane trip in other countries.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

seems like he single handedly developed Mexico, created millions of jobs, and products.
This is a liberals idea of evil??

See why we say liberalism is based in pure ignornace?

Not evil , just plain greedy.
Mexico has one of the most expensive telephone and internet systems. That is changing , but slowly.
How expensive : 30 cents of a dollar for each minute using the cell phone.
He did create "America movil" which has 150,000 employees worldwide.

dear, do you have any idea what your point is given that most liberals and conservatives believe in antitrust laws.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

An idea I have would be to import doctors from low income countries the same as big business imports foreigners here to lower workers wages.

dear capitalism would reduce prices about 80%. Doctors are not a big part of the expense in medicine

Well, actually some people (1% of the US citizens ) are choosig to use the healthcare services from other countries for expensive procedures.
The cost of the surgery in the US is sometimes more expensive than the surgery plus the plane trip in other countries.

dear, do you have a point???

 

[CultureCitizen]

dear, do you have any idea what your point is given that most liberals and conservatives believe in antitrust laws.

There is a more general term : market failures. Most conservatives think monopolies are the only case where market failures appear. This is not so, and that is why there must be regulations. I have already discussed the other causes of market failures with you but you seem to be absolutely oblivious about them. As if the "invisible hand" of the market worked perfectly in every single situation.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

dear, do you have any idea what your point is given that most liberals and conservatives believe in antitrust laws.

There is a more general term : market failures. Most conservatives think monopolies are the only case where market failures appear. This is not so, and that is why there must be regulations. I have already discussed the other causes of market failures with you but you seem to be absolutely oblivious about them. As if the "invisible hand" of the market worked perfectly in every single situation.

dear, there are no monopolies of significance in America. Doesn't that make you stupid to worry about them especially given that both sides don't contest anti trust laws? See why we say the liberal will always seem stupid.

Communism killed 120 million and you think about the capitalist monopolies that don't exist. How stupid is that?

 

[westwall]

I personally like some characteristics of the Japanese model :
a) The patient pays 30% of the cost
b) The government pays 70% of the cost
c) There is universal healthcare insurance
d) Fees are set by a government comitee ( this is actually the only part which leaves me a bit uneasy).
e) Patients can choose physician and facilities.
f) Hospitals, by law, must be run as non-profit and be managed by physicians

Health care system in Japan - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

The Japanese system has quite a few things good, but some really bad things too. The "socialized" medical system in Japan is NOT like it's European counterparts. All are "required" to buy government or private insurance, but that does not guarantee access to a doctor. Doctors are assigned by the universities. Big cities have agreements or "relationships" as they call them in Japan, with the universities so they get the doctors. The smaller towns are left out in the cold.

If you don't have insurance, you don't get help. Period. Even in the case of a medical emergency. The only people exempt from that, are people over 70 (I almost qualify!) there is no welfare, nor are there low income exemptions. Even if you are poor you have to pay 5% of your income. If you don't have a valid card the hospital will turn you away. There is no law that says a hospital has to take care of you like we have here in the US. People die all the time as they are being shuttled from hospital to hospital.

Further there is no central control so nobody knows where drugs are needed and the average wait time is 4 hours. When the earthquake hit it was chaos. Total chaos and the clinics basically shut down due to paralysis. They simply couldn't cope with the disaster.

 

[CultureCitizen]

The Japanese system has quite a few things good, but some really bad things too. The "socialized" medical system in Japan NOT like it's European counterparts. All are "required" to buy government or private insurance, but that does not guarantee access to a doctor. Doctors are assigned by the universities. Big cities have agreements or "relationships" as they call them in Japan, with the universities so they get the doctors. The smaller towns are left out in the cold.

If you don't have insurance, you don't get help. Period. Even in the case of a medical emergency. The only people exempt from that, are people over 70 (I almost qualify!) there is no welfare, nor are there low income exemptions. Even if you are poor you have to pay 5% of your income. If you don't have a valid card the hospital will turn you away. There is no law that says a hospital has to take care of you like we have here in the US. People die all the time as they are being shuttled from hospital to hospital.

Further there is no central control so nobody knows where drugs are needed and the average wait time is 4 hours. When the earthquake hit it was chaos. Total chaos and the clinics basically shut down due to paralysis. They simply couldn't cope with the disaster.

Given the life expectancy in Japan , it doesn't seem like this issues are a major cause of concern.
Regardless, how would your ideal healthcare system would work?

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Regardless, how would your ideal healthcare system would work?

capitalism of course. People would shop with their own money and providers would compete on basis of price and quality. It would reduce prices by about 80% and add 10-20 years to our life spans.

 

[CultureCitizen]

capitalism of course. People would shop with their own money and providers would compete on basis of price and quality. It would reduce prices by about 80% and add 10-20 years to our life spans.

What would you do about insurance companies? Insurance deterrs healthcare shopping and hence competition.

 

[westwall]

The Japanese system has quite a few things good, but some really bad things too. The "socialized" medical system in Japan NOT like it's European counterparts. All are "required" to buy government or private insurance, but that does not guarantee access to a doctor. Doctors are assigned by the universities. Big cities have agreements or "relationships" as they call them in Japan, with the universities so they get the doctors. The smaller towns are left out in the cold.

If you don't have insurance, you don't get help. Period. Even in the case of a medical emergency. The only people exempt from that, are people over 70 (I almost qualify!) there is no welfare, nor are there low income exemptions. Even if you are poor you have to pay 5% of your income. If you don't have a valid card the hospital will turn you away. There is no law that says a hospital has to take care of you like we have here in the US. People die all the time as they are being shuttled from hospital to hospital.

Further there is no central control so nobody knows where drugs are needed and the average wait time is 4 hours. When the earthquake hit it was chaos. Total chaos and the clinics basically shut down due to paralysis. They simply couldn't cope with the disaster.

Given the life expectancy in Japan , it doesn't seem like this issues are a major cause of concern.
Regardless, how would your ideal healthcare system would work?

I would adopt part of the Japanese system in that everyone pays. Period. I would set reasonable minimum levels of coverage that all insurance companies had to issue. I would not exempt pre-existing conditions however, though I would regulate how high the insurance companies could charge for the coverage.

I would do away with the current system that allows insurance companies to hold monopolies in their states, all companies could compete in every state. I would severely limit malpractice awards. Most lawsuits are not for malpractice. Most true malpractice should be criminally prosecuted. Once the criminal proceedings are over then the civil litigation can rip the bastard to shreds, but the majority of good doctors should not have to pay ridiculous amounts for malpractice insurance that in the long run mainly benefits the trial lawyers.

ALL drug prices would be controlled, but the time to bring new drugs to market would likewise be shortened. The BS that the FDA puts the pharmaceutical companies through is stupid. I like the Japanese system that requires all hospitals to be run as non-profits, the Carson Tahoe Hospital is likewise a non-profit and very well run for the most part.

Doctors who receive government loans or grants would be required to serve in areas that don't get much help in that respect. It would be a part of their residency and would be limited to two years for every 100,000 dollars they received. Each largely rural state would be required to put together a mobile clinic that would travel to the areas that never see medical service.

There are other points I would address but that's a good start.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

capitalism of course. People would shop with their own money and providers would compete on basis of price and quality. It would reduce prices by about 80% and add 10-20 years to our life spans.

What would you do about insurance companies? Insurance deterrs healthcare shopping and hence competition.

dear, why would you say that? Notice how you love idiotic conclusions and don't see the need to present reasons

 

[CultureCitizen]

I would adopt part of the Japanese system in that everyone pays. Period. I would set reasonable minimum levels of coverage that all insurance companies had to issue. I would not exempt pre-existing conditions however, though I would regulate how high the insurance companies could charge for the coverage.

How would you encourage shopping ? Insurance deters the free market part. That's why I like the japanese system. The insurance covers a percentage, so people have to do some shopping and see which facility meets their price / quality demands.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

How would you encourage shopping ?.

same as auto insurance no biggie

 

[westwall]

I would adopt part of the Japanese system in that everyone pays. Period. I would set reasonable minimum levels of coverage that all insurance companies had to issue. I would not exempt pre-existing conditions however, though I would regulate how high the insurance companies could charge for the coverage.

How would you encourage shopping ? Insurance deters the free market part. That's why I like the japanese system. The insurance covers a percentage, so people have to do some shopping and see which facility meets their price / quality demands.

By doing away with the monopolys that the insurance companies currently enjoy.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

By doing away with the monopolys that the insurance companies currently enjoy.

yes liberals have made competition in health insurance illegal and Obamacare did not change that, sadly.

 

[CultureCitizen]

dear, why would you say that? Notice how you love idiotic conclusions and don't see the need to present reasons

Baiamonte , we've already been through this in another thread : the premiums of insurance companies have rised faster than the already skyrocketing costs of hospitals. Why would that be ?
Everyone I know do

same as auto insurance no biggie

Meaning what ? Some insurance let you choose the repair shop, which would leave us in the exact same situation.

 

[dblack]

My ideal health care "system" would entail a constitutional prohibition on using government to force one's notion of an ideal health care system on others.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

: the premiums of insurance companies have rised faster than the already skyrocketing costs of hospitals. Why would that be ?
Everyone I know do

a liberal will always seem like a retarded child. Liberals made competition illegal among insurance companies in 1946 with McCarran Furguson. You have learned that and forgot it 12 times now because you lack the IQ to understand it. Don't you have friends or parents who can explain basic stuff to you when you cant understand it??