How would you kill him?

[Billo_Really]

And here's the prob. Billo --- Brilliant, worldly Palis that talk about the future and peace and commerce and happiness --- have big targets on their backs. Might have to split up the Palis at some point --- draw a line and have them choose.

Here's the bigger problem, you saying what the problem is, with no mention of the Israeli's.

 

[frigidweirdo]

As for the 80% claim look at the violence in the world and see what is the common denominater

That's an easy one...

Common denominator

AMERICA!

So America are in Nigeria, Somalia, Sudan, Chad, Ethiopia, Eritrea, Iran, Myanmar and Pakistan ? When did this all happen

Well, the US are certainly in Nigeria, it has oil.
They've been in Somalia, ever seen Black Hawk Down?
Iran was handed an Islamic state by the US interference there.
The US are definitely in Pakistan.

Just because US troops aren't in a place, doesn't mean the US isn't there.

So the US is causing all the violence, is that what you are now saying. And is that why Obama cant balance the books and has to borrow so much.

The US has played a big hand in a lot of violence. This might be direct influence on events, it might be indirect influence on events, but there is something there. I didn't say the US has caused all violence, no one causes all the violence in the world, no one is that powerful by a long way.

What that has to do with balancing the books I'm not sure, maybe you could explain things that you say.

 

[frigidweirdo]

No, I disagree. Whatever happened in the past, screw that.

You can't. You can't solve a problem, any problem, until you break it down to its root causes. If you don't know how a problem came into existence, you will have little chance of finding a solution to fix it. You may fix it temporarily, but it will keep coming back because you never addressed the factors that led to the problem in the first place.

And in this case, it's the occupation.

The Israelis are there. You don't kick them out. The peace process will only succeed with both sides agreeing to sort out their problems instead of using each other to create problems.

It is illegal to hold onto land seized in a war. Saying the Israeli's are there and you don't kick them out, is like saying it was okay for Hitler to annex Poland and that just ain't gonna happen.

There is nothing to agree on and nothing to negotiate. Israel needs to get the **** off land that isn't theirs. They need to comply with international law and that's it!

If somebody robs a bank, you don't negotiate with the bank robbers and the bank to bring back a portion of the loot. You go after the bank robbers and hold them accountable for the crime they committed.

Terrorism or any other label doesn't really matter. The Palestinians aren't going anywhere, the govt isn't serving their people, they're trying to kill the Israelis and the Israelis are trying to kill them. The right wing's wet dream going on, both sides having reasons to attack the others and getting put in power to be strong.

It's not an equal conflict and to talk as if it is, is just ludicrous. WTF is this shit about "...labels doesn't really matter"? These aren't labels completely detached from reality. There is a big difference between terrorism and self defense. As long as the occupation is ongoing, Israel cannot claim self defense.

And the killing is definitely not equal. In Operation Protective Edge alone, Israel killed 2600 Palestinians. In the 14 years militant groups have been firing rockets at Israeli's, only 28 have died. Since 2001. Are you trying to say that is equal?

As far as "reasons" to attack, one sides' reason is legal, the other sides' reason is not.

What is the root cause of all the violence? Is it just simply that the Israelis are there? No, I don't think it is.

Migration has existed for long periods of time, and violence has been a cause of this, however in the modern world this has tended to be less so.
You look at the US and the migration of peoples (after the initial taking over from the Native Americans) the violence of new groups wasn't anywhere near what's happening in the Middle East.

Acceptance is one thing. Muslims aren't accepting the Jews, or others. But this is because Islam is becoming regressive because of all the problems they have had to face. The irony of Bush's attempts at peace while making war against Muslims and supporting Sharon shouldn't be lost on anyone.

But this doesn't mean it can't be solves. Looking at the former Yugoslavia, Rwanda and other areas where tribal type allegiances have caused violence shows that there is potential for things to get better.

They don't because both sides are controlled by the right who have no desire to see peace. Here is the problem.

Education is the only way out of that. The more hard core the people become, the harder things become.

 

[frigidweirdo]

No, I disagree. Whatever happened in the past, screw that.

You can't. You can't solve a problem, any problem, until you break it down to its root causes. If you don't know how a problem came into existence, you will have little chance of finding a solution to fix it. You may fix it temporarily, but it will keep coming back because you never addressed the factors that led to the problem in the first place.

And in this case, it's the occupation.

The Israelis are there. You don't kick them out. The peace process will only succeed with both sides agreeing to sort out their problems instead of using each other to create problems.

It is illegal to hold onto land seized in a war. Saying the Israeli's are there and you don't kick them out, is like saying it was okay for Hitler to annex Poland and that just ain't gonna happen.

There is nothing to agree on and nothing to negotiate. Israel needs to get the **** off land that isn't theirs. They need to comply with international law and that's it!

If somebody robs a bank, you don't negotiate with the bank robbers and the bank to bring back a portion of the loot. You go after the bank robbers and hold them accountable for the crime they committed.

Terrorism or any other label doesn't really matter. The Palestinians aren't going anywhere, the govt isn't serving their people, they're trying to kill the Israelis and the Israelis are trying to kill them. The right wing's wet dream going on, both sides having reasons to attack the others and getting put in power to be strong.

It's not an equal conflict and to talk as if it is, is just ludicrous. WTF is this shit about "...labels doesn't really matter"? These aren't labels completely detached from reality. There is a big difference between terrorism and self defense. As long as the occupation is ongoing, Israel cannot claim self defense.

And the killing is definitely not equal. In Operation Protective Edge alone, Israel killed 2600 Palestinians. In the 14 years militant groups have been firing rockets at Israeli's, only 28 have died. Since 2001. Are you trying to say that is equal?

As far as "reasons" to attack, one sides' reason is legal, the other sides' reason is not.

So nothing to do with 1400 years of Islamic atrocities against the Jews starting in Medina and ending when every Jew is dead. I keep asking you what caused the violence and terrorism prior to 1967 and you ignore the question as it proves you wrong.

So International law says that the land if Israel's so what are you going to do now, ignore the international law and keep pushing your Jew hatred lies ?


And as long as the Palestinians target children they cant claim self defence either, and as long as the Palestinians fire illegal weapons classed as war crimes they cant claim defence either. But Israel can as all the attacks are happening in Israel


have you forgotten that the violence started in 635 C.E. and that millions of Jews have been killed by muslims in that time. or come up to date and the recent round of violence started in 1929 and thousands of Jews have been killed since then by Palestinians. Why do you Jew haters always have 2000 as the cut off year when the deaths from islamonazi violence and terrorism go back 71 years before that



As you say the Palestinians have no legal reason to attack Israel, and when they do it is a war crime.

Then again in Spain the Moors (Muslims) had Jewish quarters and lived side by side (although they considered the Jews and Christians inferior), when the Christian came along, the Jews were kicked out.

There have been attrocities all over the world for a long long time, it's humanity. Jews in recent times, before the beginning of the State of Israel, had suffered far more because they didn't have a power base with which to commit atrocities. Since the 1940s however, things have changed.

But your case of pointing out Muslims killing Jews is meaningless without overall context.

 

[montelatici]

No, I disagree. Whatever happened in the past, screw that.

You can't. You can't solve a problem, any problem, until you break it down to its root causes. If you don't know how a problem came into existence, you will have little chance of finding a solution to fix it. You may fix it temporarily, but it will keep coming back because you never addressed the factors that led to the problem in the first place.

And in this case, it's the occupation.

The Israelis are there. You don't kick them out. The peace process will only succeed with both sides agreeing to sort out their problems instead of using each other to create problems.

It is illegal to hold onto land seized in a war. Saying the Israeli's are there and you don't kick them out, is like saying it was okay for Hitler to annex Poland and that just ain't gonna happen.

There is nothing to agree on and nothing to negotiate. Israel needs to get the **** off land that isn't theirs. They need to comply with international law and that's it!

If somebody robs a bank, you don't negotiate with the bank robbers and the bank to bring back a portion of the loot. You go after the bank robbers and hold them accountable for the crime they committed.

Terrorism or any other label doesn't really matter. The Palestinians aren't going anywhere, the govt isn't serving their people, they're trying to kill the Israelis and the Israelis are trying to kill them. The right wing's wet dream going on, both sides having reasons to attack the others and getting put in power to be strong.

It's not an equal conflict and to talk as if it is, is just ludicrous. WTF is this shit about "...labels doesn't really matter"? These aren't labels completely detached from reality. There is a big difference between terrorism and self defense. As long as the occupation is ongoing, Israel cannot claim self defense.

And the killing is definitely not equal. In Operation Protective Edge alone, Israel killed 2600 Palestinians. In the 14 years militant groups have been firing rockets at Israeli's, only 28 have died. Since 2001. Are you trying to say that is equal?

As far as "reasons" to attack, one sides' reason is legal, the other sides' reason is not.

What is the root cause of all the violence? Is it just simply that the Israelis are there? No, I don't think it is.

Migration has existed for long periods of time, and violence has been a cause of this, however in the modern world this has tended to be less so.
You look at the US and the migration of peoples (after the initial taking over from the Native Americans) the violence of new groups wasn't anywhere near what's happening in the Middle East.

Acceptance is one thing. Muslims aren't accepting the Jews, or others. But this is because Islam is becoming regressive because of all the problems they have had to face. The irony of Bush's attempts at peace while making war against Muslims and supporting Sharon shouldn't be lost on anyone.

But this doesn't mean it can't be solves. Looking at the former Yugoslavia, Rwanda and other areas where tribal type allegiances have caused violence shows that there is potential for things to get better.

They don't because both sides are controlled by the right who have no desire to see peace. Here is the problem.

Education is the only way out of that. The more hard core the people become, the harder things become.

The European Jews went to Palestine to conquer and colonize and to replace the native population. That's why there is violence, people tend to try to defend themselves against invaders intent on their dispossession. The migrants to the Americas, after the initial dispossession of the native people, did not intend to conquer and colonize the existing Europeans. Your analogy does not make sense.

 

[Phoenall]

Of course it's not an "equal conflict".. Because it's between an advanced society that values trade and government and infrastructure and communication with the outside world -- and a displaced indigenous people who are living and thinking in 1000 year old terms. Those NEVER end well when all the indigenous folks just martyr themselves in violence and disorganization..

If the Palis don't get on the train --- they aren't going nowhere. Having warred with themselves and had leadership known best for hijacking airplanes and gotten tossed out of 2 other MidEast nations -- they need better PR -- MUCH better PR -- than groups of bloodthirsty zealots who THINK they are helping their cause by edging them closer to oblivion...

"... indigenous people who are living and thinking in 1000 year old terms..."

Are still a 1000 years more modern than someone claiming area is their ancestral home.

As a point of interest just where is your ancestral home ? And don't forget that Churchill proved that the arab muslims were illegal immigrants

 

[frigidweirdo]

No, I disagree. Whatever happened in the past, screw that.

You can't. You can't solve a problem, any problem, until you break it down to its root causes. If you don't know how a problem came into existence, you will have little chance of finding a solution to fix it. You may fix it temporarily, but it will keep coming back because you never addressed the factors that led to the problem in the first place.

And in this case, it's the occupation.

The Israelis are there. You don't kick them out. The peace process will only succeed with both sides agreeing to sort out their problems instead of using each other to create problems.

It is illegal to hold onto land seized in a war. Saying the Israeli's are there and you don't kick them out, is like saying it was okay for Hitler to annex Poland and that just ain't gonna happen.

There is nothing to agree on and nothing to negotiate. Israel needs to get the **** off land that isn't theirs. They need to comply with international law and that's it!

If somebody robs a bank, you don't negotiate with the bank robbers and the bank to bring back a portion of the loot. You go after the bank robbers and hold them accountable for the crime they committed.

Terrorism or any other label doesn't really matter. The Palestinians aren't going anywhere, the govt isn't serving their people, they're trying to kill the Israelis and the Israelis are trying to kill them. The right wing's wet dream going on, both sides having reasons to attack the others and getting put in power to be strong.

It's not an equal conflict and to talk as if it is, is just ludicrous. WTF is this shit about "...labels doesn't really matter"? These aren't labels completely detached from reality. There is a big difference between terrorism and self defense. As long as the occupation is ongoing, Israel cannot claim self defense.

And the killing is definitely not equal. In Operation Protective Edge alone, Israel killed 2600 Palestinians. In the 14 years militant groups have been firing rockets at Israeli's, only 28 have died. Since 2001. Are you trying to say that is equal?

As far as "reasons" to attack, one sides' reason is legal, the other sides' reason is not.

What is the root cause of all the violence? Is it just simply that the Israelis are there? No, I don't think it is.

Migration has existed for long periods of time, and violence has been a cause of this, however in the modern world this has tended to be less so.
You look at the US and the migration of peoples (after the initial taking over from the Native Americans) the violence of new groups wasn't anywhere near what's happening in the Middle East.

Acceptance is one thing. Muslims aren't accepting the Jews, or others. But this is because Islam is becoming regressive because of all the problems they have had to face. The irony of Bush's attempts at peace while making war against Muslims and supporting Sharon shouldn't be lost on anyone.

But this doesn't mean it can't be solves. Looking at the former Yugoslavia, Rwanda and other areas where tribal type allegiances have caused violence shows that there is potential for things to get better.

They don't because both sides are controlled by the right who have no desire to see peace. Here is the problem.

Education is the only way out of that. The more hard core the people become, the harder things become.

The European Jews went to Palestine to conquer and colonize and to replace the native population. That's why there is violence, people tend to try to defend themselves against invaders intent on their dispossession. The migrants to the Americas, after the initial dispossession of the native people, did not intend to conquer and colonize the existing Europeans. Your analogy does not make sense.

Then again in that region the natives displaced others at another time too. So, one big mess.

But then again many of the new Jewish people in Israel don't go there to displace the old Jews. They go there and REINFORCE the Jewish population, as does the European populations in the US.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Of course it's not an "equal conflict".. Because it's between an advanced society that values trade and government and infrastructure and communication with the outside world -- and a displaced indigenous people who are living and thinking in 1000 year old terms. Those NEVER end well when all the indigenous folks just martyr themselves in violence and disorganization..

If the Palis don't get on the train --- they aren't going nowhere. Having warred with themselves and had leadership known best for hijacking airplanes and gotten tossed out of 2 other MidEast nations -- they need better PR -- MUCH better PR -- than groups of bloodthirsty zealots who THINK they are helping their cause by edging them closer to oblivion...

"... indigenous people who are living and thinking in 1000 year old terms..."

Are still a 1000 years more modern than someone claiming area is their ancestral home.

As a point of interest just where is your ancestral home ? And don't forget that Churchill proved that the arab muslims were illegal immigrants

Who isn't an immigrant. Even the peoples of southern Africa, where it all started, took over the land from those who were there before them. Every single place on the planet with humans has seen humans come in and take over some other humans at some point.

 

[Phoenall]

A lot of people who created Israel already lived in cohesive, vibrant societies. Although many of them had downright diabolical leadership. And Jews have made their share of mistakes. One of the largest being that the Jewish intellectuals sought to support the Commie movement. At the time -- it was a simply a choice between being used for sword practice by the Czars Cossacks or going with Lenin/Trotsky. That got them blamed for Russia''s ills twice. For just trying to survive in a sketchy political climate. At least they were on the right side of border against Hitler.

PERHAPS --- trying to survive in a sketchy political climate is better than committing suicide by Israeli cops and soldiers? Don't know. But when the Pali youth think that their future rests on the Rock or Knife in their hands and NOT in some form of productive leadership -- YOU or I can't really help them.. PLENTY of brilliant, worldly Palis that could help.. We --- can only encourage progress towards peace..

The Pals are not the problem.

The occupation is.

Then what caused the problems before the occupation ?, Or did life begin for the whole world in 1967. The Palestinians had been attacking the Jews for 21 years before the occupation and you don't say a word about that. Just as yiu don't say a word about the violence and terrorism from 1967 to 2000 before the separation barrier went up

 

[Phoenall]

No, I disagree. Whatever happened in the past, screw that.

You can't. You can't solve a problem, any problem, until you break it down to its root causes. If you don't know how a problem came into existence, you will have little chance of finding a solution to fix it. You may fix it temporarily, but it will keep coming back because you never addressed the factors that led to the problem in the first place.

And in this case, it's the occupation.

The Israelis are there. You don't kick them out. The peace process will only succeed with both sides agreeing to sort out their problems instead of using each other to create problems.

It is illegal to hold onto land seized in a war. Saying the Israeli's are there and you don't kick them out, is like saying it was okay for Hitler to annex Poland and that just ain't gonna happen.

There is nothing to agree on and nothing to negotiate. Israel needs to get the **** off land that isn't theirs. They need to comply with international law and that's it!

If somebody robs a bank, you don't negotiate with the bank robbers and the bank to bring back a portion of the loot. You go after the bank robbers and hold them accountable for the crime they committed.

Terrorism or any other label doesn't really matter. The Palestinians aren't going anywhere, the govt isn't serving their people, they're trying to kill the Israelis and the Israelis are trying to kill them. The right wing's wet dream going on, both sides having reasons to attack the others and getting put in power to be strong.

It's not an equal conflict and to talk as if it is, is just ludicrous. WTF is this shit about "...labels doesn't really matter"? These aren't labels completely detached from reality. There is a big difference between terrorism and self defense. As long as the occupation is ongoing, Israel cannot claim self defense.

And the killing is definitely not equal. In Operation Protective Edge alone, Israel killed 2600 Palestinians. In the 14 years militant groups have been firing rockets at Israeli's, only 28 have died. Since 2001. Are you trying to say that is equal?

As far as "reasons" to attack, one sides' reason is legal, the other sides' reason is not.

So nothing to do with 1400 years of Islamic atrocities against the Jews starting in Medina and ending when every Jew is dead. I keep asking you what caused the violence and terrorism prior to 1967 and you ignore the question as it proves you wrong.

So International law says that the land if Israel's so what are you going to do now, ignore the international law and keep pushing your Jew hatred lies ?


And as long as the Palestinians target children they cant claim self defence either, and as long as the Palestinians fire illegal weapons classed as war crimes they cant claim defence either. But Israel can as all the attacks are happening in Israel


have you forgotten that the violence started in 635 C.E. and that millions of Jews have been killed by muslims in that time. or come up to date and the recent round of violence started in 1929 and thousands of Jews have been killed since then by Palestinians. Why do you Jew haters always have 2000 as the cut off year when the deaths from islamonazi violence and terrorism go back 71 years before that



As you say the Palestinians have no legal reason to attack Israel, and when they do it is a war crime.

Then again in Spain the Moors (Muslims) had Jewish quarters and lived side by side (although they considered the Jews and Christians inferior), when the Christian came along, the Jews were kicked out.

There have been attrocities all over the world for a long long time, it's humanity. Jews in recent times, before the beginning of the State of Israel, had suffered far more because they didn't have a power base with which to commit atrocities. Since the 1940s however, things have changed.

But your case of pointing out Muslims killing Jews is meaningless without overall context.

The overall context is that the Jews were forbidden to cary any weapons making them easy targets for the muslims. Now the Jews have weapons the muslims don't like it and complain about how unfair life is.

 

[Phoenall]

Of course it's not an "equal conflict".. Because it's between an advanced society that values trade and government and infrastructure and communication with the outside world -- and a displaced indigenous people who are living and thinking in 1000 year old terms. Those NEVER end well when all the indigenous folks just martyr themselves in violence and disorganization..

If the Palis don't get on the train --- they aren't going nowhere. Having warred with themselves and had leadership known best for hijacking airplanes and gotten tossed out of 2 other MidEast nations -- they need better PR -- MUCH better PR -- than groups of bloodthirsty zealots who THINK they are helping their cause by edging them closer to oblivion...

"... indigenous people who are living and thinking in 1000 year old terms..."

Are still a 1000 years more modern than someone claiming area is their ancestral home.

As a point of interest just where is your ancestral home ? And don't forget that Churchill proved that the arab muslims were illegal immigrants

Who isn't an immigrant. Even the peoples of southern Africa, where it all started, took over the land from those who were there before them. Every single place on the planet with humans has seen humans come in and take over some other humans at some point.

I'm not and have lived in the same land all my life, as did my forefathers going back 1500 years to the start of records.

 

[frigidweirdo]

No, I disagree. Whatever happened in the past, screw that.

You can't. You can't solve a problem, any problem, until you break it down to its root causes. If you don't know how a problem came into existence, you will have little chance of finding a solution to fix it. You may fix it temporarily, but it will keep coming back because you never addressed the factors that led to the problem in the first place.

And in this case, it's the occupation.

The Israelis are there. You don't kick them out. The peace process will only succeed with both sides agreeing to sort out their problems instead of using each other to create problems.

It is illegal to hold onto land seized in a war. Saying the Israeli's are there and you don't kick them out, is like saying it was okay for Hitler to annex Poland and that just ain't gonna happen.

There is nothing to agree on and nothing to negotiate. Israel needs to get the **** off land that isn't theirs. They need to comply with international law and that's it!

If somebody robs a bank, you don't negotiate with the bank robbers and the bank to bring back a portion of the loot. You go after the bank robbers and hold them accountable for the crime they committed.

Terrorism or any other label doesn't really matter. The Palestinians aren't going anywhere, the govt isn't serving their people, they're trying to kill the Israelis and the Israelis are trying to kill them. The right wing's wet dream going on, both sides having reasons to attack the others and getting put in power to be strong.

It's not an equal conflict and to talk as if it is, is just ludicrous. WTF is this shit about "...labels doesn't really matter"? These aren't labels completely detached from reality. There is a big difference between terrorism and self defense. As long as the occupation is ongoing, Israel cannot claim self defense.

And the killing is definitely not equal. In Operation Protective Edge alone, Israel killed 2600 Palestinians. In the 14 years militant groups have been firing rockets at Israeli's, only 28 have died. Since 2001. Are you trying to say that is equal?

As far as "reasons" to attack, one sides' reason is legal, the other sides' reason is not.

So nothing to do with 1400 years of Islamic atrocities against the Jews starting in Medina and ending when every Jew is dead. I keep asking you what caused the violence and terrorism prior to 1967 and you ignore the question as it proves you wrong.

So International law says that the land if Israel's so what are you going to do now, ignore the international law and keep pushing your Jew hatred lies ?


And as long as the Palestinians target children they cant claim self defence either, and as long as the Palestinians fire illegal weapons classed as war crimes they cant claim defence either. But Israel can as all the attacks are happening in Israel


have you forgotten that the violence started in 635 C.E. and that millions of Jews have been killed by muslims in that time. or come up to date and the recent round of violence started in 1929 and thousands of Jews have been killed since then by Palestinians. Why do you Jew haters always have 2000 as the cut off year when the deaths from islamonazi violence and terrorism go back 71 years before that



As you say the Palestinians have no legal reason to attack Israel, and when they do it is a war crime.

Then again in Spain the Moors (Muslims) had Jewish quarters and lived side by side (although they considered the Jews and Christians inferior), when the Christian came along, the Jews were kicked out.

There have been attrocities all over the world for a long long time, it's humanity. Jews in recent times, before the beginning of the State of Israel, had suffered far more because they didn't have a power base with which to commit atrocities. Since the 1940s however, things have changed.

But your case of pointing out Muslims killing Jews is meaningless without overall context.

The overall context is that the Jews were forbidden to cary any weapons making them easy targets for the muslims. Now the Jews have weapons the muslims don't like it and complain about how unfair life is.

What, and when, are you talking about? If you make things so vague, I'm not going to know what you're going on about.

As for now, Jews have weapons, and Muslims have weapons, and they have nationalism, and they use both to piss each other off.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Of course it's not an "equal conflict".. Because it's between an advanced society that values trade and government and infrastructure and communication with the outside world -- and a displaced indigenous people who are living and thinking in 1000 year old terms. Those NEVER end well when all the indigenous folks just martyr themselves in violence and disorganization..

If the Palis don't get on the train --- they aren't going nowhere. Having warred with themselves and had leadership known best for hijacking airplanes and gotten tossed out of 2 other MidEast nations -- they need better PR -- MUCH better PR -- than groups of bloodthirsty zealots who THINK they are helping their cause by edging them closer to oblivion...

"... indigenous people who are living and thinking in 1000 year old terms..."

Are still a 1000 years more modern than someone claiming area is their ancestral home.

As a point of interest just where is your ancestral home ? And don't forget that Churchill proved that the arab muslims were illegal immigrants

Who isn't an immigrant. Even the peoples of southern Africa, where it all started, took over the land from those who were there before them. Every single place on the planet with humans has seen humans come in and take over some other humans at some point.

I'm not and have lived in the same land all my life, as did my forefathers going back 1500 years to the start of records.

Er... you didn't understand what I've said. I'm not talking in terms of one lifetime here. I'm talking in terms of human history.

The white people in the Americas displaced the Native people's, there are still some of those people left, but they've moved regardless of whether both former and latter are currently in the US or Canada or whatever.

 

[Phoenall]

No, I disagree. Whatever happened in the past, screw that.

You can't. You can't solve a problem, any problem, until you break it down to its root causes. If you don't know how a problem came into existence, you will have little chance of finding a solution to fix it. You may fix it temporarily, but it will keep coming back because you never addressed the factors that led to the problem in the first place.

And in this case, it's the occupation.

The Israelis are there. You don't kick them out. The peace process will only succeed with both sides agreeing to sort out their problems instead of using each other to create problems.

It is illegal to hold onto land seized in a war. Saying the Israeli's are there and you don't kick them out, is like saying it was okay for Hitler to annex Poland and that just ain't gonna happen.

There is nothing to agree on and nothing to negotiate. Israel needs to get the **** off land that isn't theirs. They need to comply with international law and that's it!

If somebody robs a bank, you don't negotiate with the bank robbers and the bank to bring back a portion of the loot. You go after the bank robbers and hold them accountable for the crime they committed.

Terrorism or any other label doesn't really matter. The Palestinians aren't going anywhere, the govt isn't serving their people, they're trying to kill the Israelis and the Israelis are trying to kill them. The right wing's wet dream going on, both sides having reasons to attack the others and getting put in power to be strong.

It's not an equal conflict and to talk as if it is, is just ludicrous. WTF is this shit about "...labels doesn't really matter"? These aren't labels completely detached from reality. There is a big difference between terrorism and self defense. As long as the occupation is ongoing, Israel cannot claim self defense.

And the killing is definitely not equal. In Operation Protective Edge alone, Israel killed 2600 Palestinians. In the 14 years militant groups have been firing rockets at Israeli's, only 28 have died. Since 2001. Are you trying to say that is equal?

As far as "reasons" to attack, one sides' reason is legal, the other sides' reason is not.

So nothing to do with 1400 years of Islamic atrocities against the Jews starting in Medina and ending when every Jew is dead. I keep asking you what caused the violence and terrorism prior to 1967 and you ignore the question as it proves you wrong.

So International law says that the land if Israel's so what are you going to do now, ignore the international law and keep pushing your Jew hatred lies ?


And as long as the Palestinians target children they cant claim self defence either, and as long as the Palestinians fire illegal weapons classed as war crimes they cant claim defence either. But Israel can as all the attacks are happening in Israel


have you forgotten that the violence started in 635 C.E. and that millions of Jews have been killed by muslims in that time. or come up to date and the recent round of violence started in 1929 and thousands of Jews have been killed since then by Palestinians. Why do you Jew haters always have 2000 as the cut off year when the deaths from islamonazi violence and terrorism go back 71 years before that



As you say the Palestinians have no legal reason to attack Israel, and when they do it is a war crime.

Then again in Spain the Moors (Muslims) had Jewish quarters and lived side by side (although they considered the Jews and Christians inferior), when the Christian came along, the Jews were kicked out.

There have been attrocities all over the world for a long long time, it's humanity. Jews in recent times, before the beginning of the State of Israel, had suffered far more because they didn't have a power base with which to commit atrocities. Since the 1940s however, things have changed.

But your case of pointing out Muslims killing Jews is meaningless without overall context.

The overall context is that the Jews were forbidden to cary any weapons making them easy targets for the muslims. Now the Jews have weapons the muslims don't like it and complain about how unfair life is.

What, and when, are you talking about? If you make things so vague, I'm not going to know what you're going on about.

As for now, Jews have weapons, and Muslims have weapons, and they have nationalism, and they use both to piss each other off.[/QUOT





From the pact od Umar and the enacting of the dhimmi laws non muslims living in muslim nations were not allowed to carry weapons of any description. This was the case in Palestine right up until 1890 when the Jews decided that they would start to defend themselves from the muslims. So they formed defence groups like the Stern gang or Irgun who travelled around fighting back at muslims trying to steal Jewish land, property and goods. Now the Jews are stronger than the Palestinians and on a par with the other muslims weapons wise and the muslims have started to respect their strength.

 

[Phoenall]

Of course it's not an "equal conflict".. Because it's between an advanced society that values trade and government and infrastructure and communication with the outside world -- and a displaced indigenous people who are living and thinking in 1000 year old terms. Those NEVER end well when all the indigenous folks just martyr themselves in violence and disorganization..

If the Palis don't get on the train --- they aren't going nowhere. Having warred with themselves and had leadership known best for hijacking airplanes and gotten tossed out of 2 other MidEast nations -- they need better PR -- MUCH better PR -- than groups of bloodthirsty zealots who THINK they are helping their cause by edging them closer to oblivion...

"... indigenous people who are living and thinking in 1000 year old terms..."

Are still a 1000 years more modern than someone claiming area is their ancestral home.

As a point of interest just where is your ancestral home ? And don't forget that Churchill proved that the arab muslims were illegal immigrants

Who isn't an immigrant. Even the peoples of southern Africa, where it all started, took over the land from those who were there before them. Every single place on the planet with humans has seen humans come in and take over some other humans at some point.

I'm not and have lived in the same land all my life, as did my forefathers going back 1500 years to the start of records.

Er... you didn't understand what I've said. I'm not talking in terms of one lifetime here. I'm talking in terms of human history.

The white people in the Americas displaced the Native people's, there are still some of those people left, but they've moved regardless of whether both former and latter are currently in the US or Canada or whatever.

And you have not understood that your words were ambiguous and were meant to confuse. As I said I am not an immigrant as my family have not moved in over 1500 years, and unless you are first nations you can only go back 300 years. Just as the Palestinians can go back just 125 years in the majority of cases. The Jews can trace their ancestry through DNA back to the founding of Israel and the twelve tribes

 

[koshergrl]

How would you want to kill an Israeli soldier?

That is the question that was asked by Momen Shwaikh (مؤمن الشويخ), a Gazan comedian, to people on the streets of Gaza. Here are their answers.

The video was published on his facebook page on 16.10.2015.

https://facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1684006841814744&id=1637808309767931

Sure it's disturbing. Just as disturbing as the Americans who applaud the deaths of innocent Muslims.

I'm sure you can come up with video evidence of Americans applauding the deaths of INNOCENT Muslims. I'll wait.

 

[koshergrl]

How would you want to kill an Israeli soldier?

That is the question that was asked by Momen Shwaikh (مؤمن الشويخ), a Gazan comedian, to people on the streets of Gaza. Here are their answers.

The video was published on his facebook page on 16.10.2015.

https://facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1684006841814744&id=1637808309767931

Probably every Christian and Muslim in Gaza has had a close relative killed by an Israeli soldier or pilot, in many cases a child. What do you expect them to say?

If they are soulless animals, I expect them to act exactly as they do. What worthless dogs they are.

 

[Billo_Really]

What is the root cause of all the violence? Is it just simply that the Israelis are there? No, I don't think it is.

The occupation is the root cause.

Migration has existed for long periods of time, and violence has been a cause of this, however in the modern world this has tended to be less so.
You look at the US and the migration of peoples (after the initial taking over from the Native Americans) the violence of new groups wasn't anywhere near what's happening in the Middle East.

Then give the Pals their casinos so they can hit the Jews where it will hurt the most...........gambling debts.

Acceptance is one thing. Muslims aren't accepting the Jews, or others. But this is because Islam is becoming regressive because of all the problems they have had to face. The irony of Bush's attempts at peace while making war against Muslims and supporting Sharon shouldn't be lost on anyone.

Muslims accepted the Jews before Zionists showed up.

But this doesn't mean it can't be solves. Looking at the former Yugoslavia, Rwanda and other areas where tribal type allegiances have caused violence shows that there is potential for things to get better.

I agree.

They don't because both sides are controlled by the right who have no desire to see peace. Here is the problem.

I didn't realize there was a right-wing Pal and a left-wing Pal. I thought they were divided into pre-occupation and post-occupation clans?

Education is the only way out of that. The more hard core the people become, the harder things become.

I agree.

 

[Billo_Really]

If they are soulless animals, I expect them to act exactly as they do. What worthless dogs they are.

The Nazis felt the same way towards the Jews.

You make a good German!

 

[Roudy]

If they are soulless animals, I expect them to act exactly as they do. What worthless dogs they are.

The Nazis felt the same way towards the Jews.

You make a good German!

Should I remind you that Palestinians are the bastard children of the marriage between Nazism and Arab Islamic Nationalism, BIG MOUTH?