Zone1 How Reparations Should work

[EvilEyeFleegle]

If the county footed 20 million, that money has to come from somewhere and that somewhere is the taxpayers.

As for your assertion of who was born into what, that’s a discussion for another thread so we don’t pollute this one.

I’m just failing to see why you can’t agree that there could have been a solution that didn’t involve using taxpayer money, unless the idea here isn’t the money, but making other people “pay” for wrongs they never committed against black people.

I’m just failing to see

Yes...yes you are. Is it deliberate, or some sort of affliction?

The idea...is that something bad happened....and now the scales have been, as far is is possible, balanced.

I have to ask, why does that stick in your craw?

 

[ThisIsMe]

The county stole, the county pays for what they stole.

The only money the county has is taxpayer money, of which probably none of them were alive when all this happened.

again, is this about the money..or is it about punishing people? People who no part in this.

 

[ThisIsMe]

Yes...yes you are. Is it deliberate, or some sort of affliction?

The idea...is that something bad happened....and now the scales have been, as far is is possible, balanced.

I have to ask, why does that stick in your craw?

The only thing deliberate is my questioning of why you all can’t accept that there could have been another, equally viable way to doing this.

It’s great that these people were made whole…why did those taxpayers in the country need to foot this bill when there could have been a way for the family to still be made whole, but not incur this debt.

 

[EvilEyeFleegle]

Nope.

We could go on all day about this. Let's take Japan. In WW2 loads of Japanese people lost family members, their country fell apart. The US could have given reparations to each individual, instead they gave it to the country in a similar situation to the Marshall Plan and look what happened, Japanese people are much better off.

Imagine I give reparations to some black guy. He blows it all on cocaine and hookers, gets three people pregnant and the dies. That's three kids without benefiting from the reparations. That's generations who will suffer.

Now, imagine I give it to society and make it work (the hard part in the US as politicians are useless, the electoral system built for the 18th century, etc etc) then this guy gets nothing, he doesn't dies, gets someone knocked up, his kid/kids then get a decent education, get decent opportunities and then for generations to come they're better off.

Uh..OK.

You did read the OP right? An injustice occurred..the KKK conspired with the local govt. to use eminent domain to rob a Black family of their land.
This injustice has been redressed, then the descendants sold the land they got back for 20M.

A far cry from Japan...FFS.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Uh..OK.

You did read the OP right? An injustice occurred..the KKK conspired with the local govt. to use eminent domain to rob a Black family of their land.
This injustice has been redressed, then the descendants sold the land they got back for 20M.

A far cry from Japan...FFS.

Yeah, it doesn't matter what happened in the past. The past happened. Injustice happens all over the place. People have good teachers, others have bad teachers, other get support from the government, others don't. We could spent all our resources hunting down injustice.

The injustice has led to a situation where black people are more likely to be in poverty, more likely to have one parent, more likely to suffer from things.

Why not change it? We know it can work. In the UK (oh, you don't like finding examples from outside of the US, ignorance is best, go team!) they had a problem, so they went out there and tried to fix it, education (usually) works better in the UK in terms of mass education. People can learn from around the world (oh now we can't, says the lazy ass politicians to the voters).

You want there to not be inequality later on. If you give money to individuals, most of them will blow it, because WE KNOW THEY DO THIS.

 

[el midgetron]

Too funny! I'll let you figure it out~

I already did, you just won’t admit it.

Anyway, since this has nothing to do with race, maybe you should ask it be moved to a different section.

Since this topic isn’t racial, you must support reparations for the families of white people who were wronged by the government also, correct?

 

[AZrailwhale]

Very nice beachfront property---currently occupied by a luxury hotel.

From the 2nd link:

Under pressure from the Ku Klux Klan, the city of Manhattan Beach used its eminent domain authority in 1924 to drive out a seaside resort for Black guests owned by Willa and Charles Bruce, promising to put a park in its place.

Just as Silas White was about to realize his dream of establishing the Ebony Beach Club as a Black-owned haven free of racism in 1958, Santa Monica used eminent domain to confiscate his property, demolishing it with plans to create public parking. The luxury Viceroy Hotel now sits on the lot.

How did Santa Monica use eminent domain to seize property in Manhattan Beach ten miles away as the crow flies? Two different cities seperated by another city.

 

[AZrailwhale]

The county initially took the land.

No, the CITY of Manhattan Beach took the property. L.A. County has no authority inside incorporated city limits.

Probably the only reason the County got involved is that the California Coastal Commission controls all land use within a zone that ranges from a couple of hundred yards to miles in some places from the low tide line. The Commission probably told the family to pound sand about doing anything with the property. The CCC is very anti-private development of nearshore property. It’s one of several unelected, unaccountable, out of control bureaucracies like the Southern California Air Quality District and the Santa Monica Mountains Conservancy that are running wild and really screwing up Southern California.

 

[TomParks]

Offer them a payment but stipulate it comes with a one way ticket back to Africa.

 

[IM2]

If the county footed 20 million, that money has to come from somewhere and that somewhere is the taxpayers.

As for your assertion of who was born into what, that’s a discussion for another thread so we don’t pollute this one.

I’m just failing to see why you can’t agree that there could have been a solution that didn’t involve using taxpayer money, unless the idea here isn’t the money, but making other people “pay” for wrongs they never committed against black people.

I don't need to see that solition because the people involved studied the situation and saw that the solution was the county repaying back what they took. Again drop your mindset because people today are benefiting fron those wrongs. The argument you wage is tired and really without merit. Other groups have got reparations for things done in the same way, so what is the big hang up now?

 

[IM2]

Yeah, it doesn't matter what happened in the past. The past happened. Injustice happens all over the place. People have good teachers, others have bad teachers, other get support from the government, others don't. We could spent all our resources hunting down injustice.

The injustice has led to a situation where black people are more likely to be in poverty, more likely to have one parent, more likely to suffer from things.

Why not change it? We know it can work. In the UK (oh, you don't like finding examples from outside of the US, ignorance is best, go team!) they had a problem, so they went out there and tried to fix it, education (usually) works better in the UK in terms of mass education. People can learn from around the world (oh now we can't, says the lazy ass politicians to the voters).

You want there to not be inequality later on. If you give money to individuals, most of them will blow it, because WE KNOW THEY DO THIS.

The UK has not solved the problem. Whites got money and everything else. Those handouts created the white middle class as well as national expansion. Such individual money handouts did not hurt whites. It won't hurt blacks.

 

[IM2]

Offer them a payment but stipulate it comes with a one way ticket back to Africa.

How about if we pay for a ticket for whites like you to return to Europe?

 

[ThisIsMe]

I don't need to see that solition because the people involved studied the situation and saw that the solution was the county repaying back what they took. Again drop your mindset because people today are benefiting fron those wrongs. The argument you wage is tired and really without merit. Other groups have got reparations for things done in the same way, so what is the big hang up now?

Ok, so it is just about “making people pay”, then.

Again, your argument about people benefiting from those wrongs is a debate for another thread, as not to pollute this one.

However, I can see where your mindset is…it’s not just about giving black people back what you think they are owed, it’s about making sure that payment comes from the people…of whom none were probably alive when this all took place.

 

[EvilEyeFleegle]

I already did, you just won’t admit it.

Anyway, since this has nothing to do with race, maybe you should ask it be moved to a different section.

Since this topic isn’t racial, you must support reparations for the families of white people who were wronged by the government also, correct?

Your last sentence is correct. I do indeed, support reparations for anyone wronged by the Govt..

As the family in the OP was dispossessed of their property solely because of their race---I believe this is in the appropriate forum

Dumbass~

 

[EvilEyeFleegle]

Ok, so it is just about “making people pay”, then.

Again, your argument about people benefiting from those wrongs is a debate for another thread, as not to pollute this one.

However, I can see where your mindset is…it’s not just about giving black people back what you think they are owed, it’s about making sure that payment comes from the people…of whom none were probably alive when this all took place.

Interesting how very circular your argument is. You have what you believe from the start. You direct a narrative you can use to show how 'reasonable' you are. You give him a 'mindset' you can debunk...you debunk the 'mindset'.
All with little or no real input from the person you are talking to.

Speaking for myself..it's about righting a wrong...and wringing your hands over LA county..with a budget in the billions--having to pony up $20M--is pretty weak, when righting an obvious wrong.

If 'the People' have issues with how their govt. acted in this matter..there are these things called elections. Knowing what I know about politicians..if they had thought that being kicked out of office was even a remote possibility--nothing would have been done.

 

[EvilEyeFleegle]

How about if we pay for a ticket for whites like you to return to Europe?

Oh, too funny! Start shipping MAGA goofs to Britain by the planeload ala Gov. Abbot
Give them bus fare to their 'Home'.

 

[EvilEyeFleegle]

How did Santa Monica use eminent domain to seize property in Manhattan Beach ten miles away as the crow flies? Two different cities seperated by another city.

All ya need to know eh?

Manhattan Beach, California - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Mrs. W. A. Bruce, a landowner of property near the coast, created the first beach resort for Black Americans in Southern California, Bruce's Beach.[13][14] Bruce set up a small portable cottage with a stand in front where soda and lunches were sold.[13] There were two dressing tents with showers, and fifty bathing suits were available for rent.[13] Peck's land was located between Bruce's land and the beach itself, and Bruce erected "no tresspassing signs" on his land, which required beachgoers to walk a half-mile around his land in order to go to the beach.[13] Many beachgoers did so, which made the nearby white landowners unhappy.[13] In the 1920s, the Ku Klux Klan began violently harassing the resort's visitors, the Bruce family, and four other Black families that bought lots. In 1924, the city used eminent domain to seize the land from the Black property owners under the pretense of building a park.[15][16][17]

 

[martybegan]

I've always favored the tort system for addressing the many provable claims of racially biased seizing of land by the govt. via eminent domain--only to sell the land to the White people who wanted it.
I never considered the Govt. would actually recognize the wrongs done...and make amends. BTW..that is the actual definition of 'reparation'.
This is the first time that any US govt...at any level..has actually given some of the land back.

The 2nd link is a great overview of the issue. A long read for some..but very informative for the two of you who actually care...LOL~

Family to sell Bruce's Beach property back to L.A. County for nearly $20 million

County officials say the Bruce family has agreed to sell the Bruce's Beach property in Manhattan Beach back to Los Angeles County for nearly $20 million.

www.latimes.com

California has a history of racist land seizures. Will reparations bills bring justice?

A state lawmaker from Gardena wants to help victims of racially motivated land seizures get justice.

www.latimes.com

Six months ago, Los Angeles County leaders signed off on an unprecedented transaction: They would return two parcels of beachfront property in Manhattan Beach to the Bruce family, the first example of the government giving back land to a Black family after acknowledging it had been stolen.

On Tuesday, the county announced a surprise twist in the historic deal: The family would sell the Bruce’s Beach property back to the county for nearly $20 million.

In the early 1900s, Willa and Charles Bruce were pushed out of a bustling resort they had built, beloved by the area’s Black community. The Ku Klux Klan, along with other white residents of the area, plotted to drive the family away and city officials later condemned their property in 1924 through eminent domain, claiming they needed the lots for a park. The family’s resort was demolished, and the Bruce family moved away. The park would not be built for decades.

In an effort to “right the wrongs of the past,” the board made the momentous decision in June to return the Manhattan Beach land to the descendants of the Bruces, a move celebrated nationally by reparation advocates.

As part of the agreement, Bruce family members had a two-year window in which they could require the county to buy back the property from them. They have decided to do just that.

That's not reparations, that's just rectifying government malfeasance.

 

[EvilEyeFleegle]

That's not reparations, that's just rectifying government malfeasance.

Why cannot it be both? Is it just the word 'reparation' that is objectionable?

 

[martybegan]

Why cannot it be both? Is it just the word 'reparation' that is objectionable?

it's objectionable giving money to someone for sole reason of a person's race, not for any obvious or quantifiable wrongdoing, such as abuse of eminent domain laws, or destruction of property.