How much was the Biden Quid Pro Quo?

[CWayne]

Well, whether or not he was ever under investigation, at the very least his $50k per month paycheck was being threatened by the Bursima investigation.

Let's ignore the fact that all parties including the EU, the countries within the EU, IMF, ant-corruption activists in Ukraine and the United States all wanted that Ukrainian prosecutor fired due to his unwillingness to actually prosecute corruption.

Also, let us not forget that it was ONLY Joe Biden who offered the quid pro quo of $1billion dollars. Regardless of the motivation of Bursima in hiring Hunter (we all know it was going to be a pay to play scheme), the fact of the matter is that Biden is the one who threatened to withhold aid, not other parties in the EU, not the IMF.

Biden according to him made that statement, nobody said there was no backing from the U.S. government. Let's also be clear, we were advocating for anti corruption advocates within the Ukraine who wanted this guy gone as well.

Now we're actually twisting the arm of a guy who ran on anti-corruption.

That is incorrect. Biden has actually admitted what he did. Take it as a confession if will. Biden said there was no backing from the US government. I was implicit in his threat that he was leaving inside of six hours and if he did not get what he wanted, the money was gone.

Uh, what exactly are you disagreeing with me on?

That what Biden did is anything close to what Trump did. In every one of these conversations, the implication is that Trump abuse his power for personal gain, i.e., he wanted dirt on a political opponent. That is clearly projected speculation because none of that can be inferred from the conversation.

However, Joe Biden actually stood to gain by his actions, or more accurately, his family stood to gain.

If a person takes a close look at the corruption laws surrounding elected officials, the language is always very clear. No elected politician can directly benefit from lobbyists. However, their children and extended family members are carefully insulated from that law, even though that too constitutes corruption.

Regardless of the fact that other EU players also wanted this prosecutor fired (why they wanted the prosecutor fired would be an interesting investigation in and of itself) the fact remains that none of them had any personal gain to be made from the removal of this prosecutor. The Bidens did have something to gain from it and Biden used the power and authority of the Executive Branch to enforce his desire.

The entire investigation and impeachment are illegitimate in that the wrong parties are being investigated.

 

[CWayne]

I know, you don't get extorting a foreign government to dig up dirt on your political opponent is in any way, shape or form normal.

According to you people no dirt exists so what's the problem? Ouch, that's going to leave a mark.

Asking a foreign government to intervene in our elections by publicly opening up a criminal investigation is what we are talking about. It's illegal.

He did not ask them to intervene in our elections. The corruption case has nothing to do with our election.

 

[HappyJoy]

I know, you don't get extorting a foreign government to dig up dirt on your political opponent is in any way, shape or form normal.

According to you people no dirt exists so what's the problem? Ouch, that's going to leave a mark.

Asking a foreign government to intervene in our elections by publicly opening up a criminal investigation is what we are talking about. It's illegal.

When did you decide it was illegal before or after Obama and Hillary did the same thing?

What foreign government was that again?

 

[HappyJoy]

Let's ignore the fact that all parties including the EU, the countries within the EU, IMF, ant-corruption activists in Ukraine and the United States all wanted that Ukrainian prosecutor fired due to his unwillingness to actually prosecute corruption.

Also, let us not forget that it was ONLY Joe Biden who offered the quid pro quo of $1billion dollars. Regardless of the motivation of Bursima in hiring Hunter (we all know it was going to be a pay to play scheme), the fact of the matter is that Biden is the one who threatened to withhold aid, not other parties in the EU, not the IMF.

Biden according to him made that statement, nobody said there was no backing from the U.S. government. Let's also be clear, we were advocating for anti corruption advocates within the Ukraine who wanted this guy gone as well.

Now we're actually twisting the arm of a guy who ran on anti-corruption.

That is incorrect. Biden has actually admitted what he did. Take it as a confession if will. Biden said there was no backing from the US government. I was implicit in his threat that he was leaving inside of six hours and if he did not get what he wanted, the money was gone.

Uh, what exactly are you disagreeing with me on?

That what Biden did is anything close to what Trump did. In every one of these conversations, the implication is that Trump abuse his power for personal gain, i.e., he wanted dirt on a political opponent. That is clearly projected speculation because none of that can be inferred from the conversation.

However, Joe Biden actually stood to gain by his actions, or more accurately, his family stood to gain.

If a person takes a close look at the corruption laws surrounding elected officials, the language is always very clear. No elected politician can directly benefit from lobbyists. However, their children and extended family members are carefully insulated from that law, even though that too constitutes corruption.

Regardless of the fact that other EU players also wanted this prosecutor fired (why they wanted the prosecutor fired would be an interesting investigation in and of itself) the fact remains that none of them had any personal gain to be made from the removal of this prosecutor. The Bidens did have something to gain from it and Biden used the power and authority of the Executive Branch to enforce his desire.

The entire investigation and impeachment are illegitimate in that the wrong parties are being investigated.

I see, Trump never gives a shit about corruption unless it has something to do with Biden. Got it, you gloriously duped moron.

 

[BluesLegend]

I know, you don't get extorting a foreign government to dig up dirt on your political opponent is in any way, shape or form normal.

According to you people no dirt exists so what's the problem? Ouch, that's going to leave a mark.

Asking a foreign government to intervene in our elections by publicly opening up a criminal investigation is what we are talking about. It's illegal.

When did you decide it was illegal before or after Obama and Hillary did the same thing?

What foreign government was that again?

Steele Dossier refresh your memory? Over $2 billion in Clinton cash much of it from foreign governments? Blatant examples of Joe Biden using taxpayer money to strong arm Ukraine? I suppose that Hunter Biden being paid millions by the very company the prosecutor who was investigating that company Joe Biden demanded be fired was just a giant coincidence. Billions sent to Iran. Obama caught on a hot mic asking the president of Russia for a favor until after his election. This is why we laugh and mock your side, its funny watching you people fake the faux rage given your own actions.

 

[HappyJoy]

I know, you don't get extorting a foreign government to dig up dirt on your political opponent is in any way, shape or form normal.

According to you people no dirt exists so what's the problem? Ouch, that's going to leave a mark.

Asking a foreign government to intervene in our elections by publicly opening up a criminal investigation is what we are talking about. It's illegal.

He did not ask them to intervene in our elections. The corruption case has nothing to do with our election.

Trump's perceived electibility is pretty important and if he attempts to change the narrative that Russia helped him into Ukraine helped the Democrats means quite a bit. Then of course there is the ask of investigating his political rival as well and that kind of blows the doors off the whole thing.

 

[HappyJoy]

I know, you don't get extorting a foreign government to dig up dirt on your political opponent is in any way, shape or form normal.

According to you people no dirt exists so what's the problem? Ouch, that's going to leave a mark.

Asking a foreign government to intervene in our elections by publicly opening up a criminal investigation is what we are talking about. It's illegal.

When did you decide it was illegal before or after Obama and Hillary did the same thing?

What foreign government was that again?

Steele Dossier refresh your memory? Over $2 billion in Clinton cash much of it from foreign governments? Blatant examples of Joe Biden using taxpayer money to strong arm Ukraine? I suppose that Hunter Biden being paid millions by the very company the prosecutor who was investigating that company Joe Biden demanded be fired was just a giant coincidence. Billions sent to Iran. Obama caught on a hot mic asking the president of Russia for a favor until after his election. This is why we laugh and mock your side, its funny watching you people fake the faux rage given your own actions.

There was nothing illegal about the Steele Dossier. If you think there was then how come two Trump appointed AGs haven't arrested Clinton?

You guys are fucking dumb.

 

[CWayne]

Also, let us not forget that it was ONLY Joe Biden who offered the quid pro quo of $1billion dollars. Regardless of the motivation of Bursima in hiring Hunter (we all know it was going to be a pay to play scheme), the fact of the matter is that Biden is the one who threatened to withhold aid, not other parties in the EU, not the IMF.

Biden according to him made that statement, nobody said there was no backing from the U.S. government. Let's also be clear, we were advocating for anti corruption advocates within the Ukraine who wanted this guy gone as well.

Now we're actually twisting the arm of a guy who ran on anti-corruption.

That is incorrect. Biden has actually admitted what he did. Take it as a confession if will. Biden said there was no backing from the US government. I was implicit in his threat that he was leaving inside of six hours and if he did not get what he wanted, the money was gone.

Uh, what exactly are you disagreeing with me on?

That what Biden did is anything close to what Trump did. In every one of these conversations, the implication is that Trump abuse his power for personal gain, i.e., he wanted dirt on a political opponent. That is clearly projected speculation because none of that can be inferred from the conversation.

However, Joe Biden actually stood to gain by his actions, or more accurately, his family stood to gain.

If a person takes a close look at the corruption laws surrounding elected officials, the language is always very clear. No elected politician can directly benefit from lobbyists. However, their children and extended family members are carefully insulated from that law, even though that too constitutes corruption.

Regardless of the fact that other EU players also wanted this prosecutor fired (why they wanted the prosecutor fired would be an interesting investigation in and of itself) the fact remains that none of them had any personal gain to be made from the removal of this prosecutor. The Bidens did have something to gain from it and Biden used the power and authority of the Executive Branch to enforce his desire.

The entire investigation and impeachment are illegitimate in that the wrong parties are being investigated.

I see, Trump never gives a shit about corruption unless it has something to do with Biden. Got it, you gloriously duped moron.

Glad to see your crystal ball is so opaque.

You don't know what Trump cares about. Neither do I.

However, the facts on the ground right now is that we have an ex-VP who has admitted to corruption, yet is being defended by the very people who are so 'outraged' by alleged corruption of the same order from Trump; even though there are no facts to support the speculation.

I realize that this forum is nothing but partisans taking shots at each other, but even given that, I am continuously amazed that the blinders most of you wear in the name of your hatred.

However, since you decided to throw insults instead of continuing to discuss the issue, please feel free to move along. I'll not bother with you in this thread from this point forward.

Besides, there is a good game coming up soon and I'd rather watch that.

 

[HappyJoy]

Biden according to him made that statement, nobody said there was no backing from the U.S. government. Let's also be clear, we were advocating for anti corruption advocates within the Ukraine who wanted this guy gone as well.

Now we're actually twisting the arm of a guy who ran on anti-corruption.

That is incorrect. Biden has actually admitted what he did. Take it as a confession if will. Biden said there was no backing from the US government. I was implicit in his threat that he was leaving inside of six hours and if he did not get what he wanted, the money was gone.

Uh, what exactly are you disagreeing with me on?

That what Biden did is anything close to what Trump did. In every one of these conversations, the implication is that Trump abuse his power for personal gain, i.e., he wanted dirt on a political opponent. That is clearly projected speculation because none of that can be inferred from the conversation.

However, Joe Biden actually stood to gain by his actions, or more accurately, his family stood to gain.

If a person takes a close look at the corruption laws surrounding elected officials, the language is always very clear. No elected politician can directly benefit from lobbyists. However, their children and extended family members are carefully insulated from that law, even though that too constitutes corruption.

Regardless of the fact that other EU players also wanted this prosecutor fired (why they wanted the prosecutor fired would be an interesting investigation in and of itself) the fact remains that none of them had any personal gain to be made from the removal of this prosecutor. The Bidens did have something to gain from it and Biden used the power and authority of the Executive Branch to enforce his desire.

The entire investigation and impeachment are illegitimate in that the wrong parties are being investigated.

I see, Trump never gives a shit about corruption unless it has something to do with Biden. Got it, you gloriously duped moron.

Glad to see your crystal ball is so opaque.

You don't know what Trump cares about. Neither do I.

However, the facts on the ground right now is that we have an ex-VP who has admitted to corruption, yet is being defended by the very people who are so 'outraged' by alleged corruption of the same order from Trump; even though there are no facts to support the speculation.

I realize that this forum is nothing but partisans taking shots at each other, but even given that, I am continuously amazed that the blinders most of you wear in the name of your hatred.

However, since you decided to throw insults instead of continuing to discuss the issue, please feel free to move along. I'll not bother with you in this thread from this point forward.

Besides, there is a good game coming up soon and I'd rather watch that.

I think we have three witnesses who overheard a call from Sundland to Trump talking about exactly what Trump cares about. Sundland even stated that Trump only cares about the bogus Biden and 2016 election investigation in Ukraine in that country. I believe these witnesses have and will be testifying under oath. If only someone from the White House would do the same.

 

[BluesLegend]

According to you people no dirt exists so what's the problem? Ouch, that's going to leave a mark.

Asking a foreign government to intervene in our elections by publicly opening up a criminal investigation is what we are talking about. It's illegal.

When did you decide it was illegal before or after Obama and Hillary did the same thing?

What foreign government was that again?

Steele Dossier refresh your memory? Over $2 billion in Clinton cash much of it from foreign governments? Blatant examples of Joe Biden using taxpayer money to strong arm Ukraine? I suppose that Hunter Biden being paid millions by the very company the prosecutor who was investigating that company Joe Biden demanded be fired was just a giant coincidence. Billions sent to Iran. Obama caught on a hot mic asking the president of Russia for a favor until after his election. This is why we laugh and mock your side, its funny watching you people fake the faux rage given your own actions.

There was nothing illegal about the Steele Dossier. If you think there was then how come two Trump appointed AGs haven't arrested Clinton?

You guys are fucking dumb.

You're just mad that I rubbed your nose in the rotted festering stench of your double standards and hypocrisy.

 

[HappyJoy]

Asking a foreign government to intervene in our elections by publicly opening up a criminal investigation is what we are talking about. It's illegal.

When did you decide it was illegal before or after Obama and Hillary did the same thing?

What foreign government was that again?

Steele Dossier refresh your memory? Over $2 billion in Clinton cash much of it from foreign governments? Blatant examples of Joe Biden using taxpayer money to strong arm Ukraine? I suppose that Hunter Biden being paid millions by the very company the prosecutor who was investigating that company Joe Biden demanded be fired was just a giant coincidence. Billions sent to Iran. Obama caught on a hot mic asking the president of Russia for a favor until after his election. This is why we laugh and mock your side, its funny watching you people fake the faux rage given your own actions.

There was nothing illegal about the Steele Dossier. If you think there was then how come two Trump appointed AGs haven't arrested Clinton?

You guys are fucking dumb.

You're just mad that I rubbed your nose in the rotted festering stench of your double standards and hypocrisy.

No, I just think you guys aren't very bright.

 

[Muhammed]

Considering Biden's son was never under investigation by the Ukrainians...

the company he worked for was so that means he was too,,,

For actions that took place before Hunter was with the company.

And Hunter Biden was hired specifically to get rid of those pesky legal problems. And, son of a bitch, he did a great job. He must be a legal genius! Or something.

Here's the timeline.

April 14, 2014: Treasury Secretary Jacob Lew signs billion dollar loan guarantee package for Ukraine.
Treasury Secretary Lew Announces Signing Of $1 Billion U.S. Loan Guarantee Agreement For Ukraine

April 18, 2014: Facing criminal investigation, Mykola Zlovcheski appoints Hunter Biden to the board directors of Burisma Holdings to be in charge of Burisma's Holding's legal unit.
https://assets.documentcloud.org/do...a-Announces-Hunter-Biden-s-Appointment-to.pdf

November 2, 2015: Shokin survives assassination attempt via sniper attack. He is saved by the bullet resistant glass of his office window.

December 6, 2015: Joe Biden meets with Ukrainian president Poroshenko.

December 8, 2015: Joe Biden addresses Rada (Ukraine's unicameral parliament).

December 9, 2015: Joe Biden threatens President Poroshenko and Prime Minister Yatsenyuk, telling them that he would withhold the $1 billion in loan guarantees unless Shokin was fired.

February 19, 2016: President Poroshenko's office falsely claims it has received Viktor Shokin's official resignation letter.

February 24, 2016: Email seeking reconsideration of Burisma's status as a corrupt corporation sent from Blue Star Strategies to the State Department name drops Hunter Biden.

March 29, 2016: Rada formally dismisses Shokin.

May 12, 2016: Biden approved "solid guy" Yuriy Lutsenko is scandalously appointed Prosecutor General of Ukraine, ostensibly to fight corruption, despite the fact that Lutsenko had served prison time for embezzlement and abuse of office while he was the Interior Minister and had no legal credentials. No legal experience. Not even a law degree. Apparently his only qualification was that Joe Biden approved of him.

June 3, 2016: $1 billion loan guarantees that had been held up finally approved.

 

[BluesLegend]

When did you decide it was illegal before or after Obama and Hillary did the same thing?

What foreign government was that again?

Steele Dossier refresh your memory? Over $2 billion in Clinton cash much of it from foreign governments? Blatant examples of Joe Biden using taxpayer money to strong arm Ukraine? I suppose that Hunter Biden being paid millions by the very company the prosecutor who was investigating that company Joe Biden demanded be fired was just a giant coincidence. Billions sent to Iran. Obama caught on a hot mic asking the president of Russia for a favor until after his election. This is why we laugh and mock your side, its funny watching you people fake the faux rage given your own actions.

There was nothing illegal about the Steele Dossier. If you think there was then how come two Trump appointed AGs haven't arrested Clinton?

You guys are fucking dumb.

You're just mad that I rubbed your nose in the rotted festering stench of your double standards and hypocrisy.

No, I just think you guys aren't very bright.

My left pinky toe is smarter than you lib.

 

[EvMetro]

Considering Biden's son was never under investigation by the Ukrainians...

I was not asking if Biden's son was under investigation, I was asking how much aid Biden was holding hostage until the prosecutor was fired and Hunter was cleared. Do you know how much taxpayer money Biden withheld for his quid pro quo?

 

[EvMetro]

What was the actual amount of US aid meant for Ukraine that Biden withheld until his son Hunter was cleared of charges and the prosecutor fired? Was the full amount of aid released once Biden's corrupt personal demands were satisfied by the American taxpayers?

$0.00

I do you have a link to where I can verify this figure? This is the fourth unique number I have found.

 

[Kondor3]

What was the actual amount of US aid meant for Ukraine that Biden withheld until his son Hunter was cleared of charges and the prosecutor fired? Was the full amount of aid released once Biden's corrupt personal demands were satisfied by the American taxpayers?

Doesn't matter for now.

Save it for later.

Biden is no longer an active office-holder.

Presently, we are engaged with wrongdoing by the incumbent President.

We can bat clean-up on the old $hit later, once The Creature has received justice for his misbehavior.

-----------

"The other guy did it too" is a juvenile defense best left on the 5th grade recess yard.

 

[EvMetro]

Doesn't matter for now.

Save it for later.

Biden is no longer an active office-holder.

Presently, we are engaged with wrongdoing by the incumbent President.

We can bat clean-up on the old $hit later, once The Creature has received justice for his misbehavior.

-----------

"The other guy did it too" is a juvenile defense best left on the 5th grade recess yard.

It matters to me, which is why I started the thread. I am involved in a writing project outside of this forum that calls for something more specific than the billion that Biden specified when he was bragging about his quid pro quo.

 

[WEATHER53]

So Biden declaring its unAmerican for his son to be asked to testify.

 

[HappyJoy]

Considering Biden's son was never under investigation by the Ukrainians...

I was not asking if Biden's son was under investigation, I was asking how much aid Biden was holding hostage until the prosecutor was fired and Hunter was cleared. Do you know how much taxpayer money Biden withheld for his quid pro quo?

Hunter Biden was never under investigation. Seriously, where is the wingnut A team? I'm tired of amateur hour here at USMB.

 

[Care4all]

the company he worked for was so that means he was too,,,

Well, whether or not he was ever under investigation, at the very least his $50k per month paycheck was being threatened by the Bursima investigation.

Let's ignore the fact that all parties including the EU, the countries within the EU, IMF, ant-corruption activists in Ukraine and the United States all wanted that Ukrainian prosecutor fired due to his unwillingness to actually prosecute corruption.

Also, let us not forget that it was ONLY Joe Biden who offered the quid pro quo of $1billion dollars. Regardless of the motivation of Bursima in hiring Hunter (we all know it was going to be a pay to play scheme), the fact of the matter is that Biden is the one who threatened to withhold aid, not other parties in the EU, not the IMF.

And Joe bragged about doing it. Now you see just how ridiculous the blatant double standard and hypocrisy is among Dem's.

I don't see a double standard. There is literally no evidence that this helped Biden's son. Where as getting the president of Ukraine to announce an investigation into a political opponent stinks to high heaven.

It was illegal for the President to do that.... not just wrong or stupid....