How Much Should We Fine Them per day ???

[jc456]

So the unstable leader of the EPA declared today -- that the river is BACK to pre-spill cleanliness and water standards.

Show's over folks... Nothing to see here ---- keep it moving..
She THINKS we are idiots. She THINKS a spill like that requires NO REMEDIATION..

No, that was your policy. At least, before the latest spill it was. You only suddenly started caring when one of the polluters was the EPA.

I guess the silver lining here is you now have pretend to care about pollution, if only for the moment.

Conservatives want a dirty environment and their kids to get cancer All the bureaucracy at the EPA and the 100s of billions of dollars to feed the bureaucracy doesn't do much to clean the environment and Carbon dioxide is not a pollutant, the sludge they dumped into the river is . Abolish the EPA

a bit off topic, but to respond to this kind of nonsense post, Liberals fighting for women's rights for abortion go ape shit when a mother chooses not to have her child immunized. Can you explain why there is but one set of rules? Again, your post suggests something that you have no idea what it is you preach. And, my world isn't your world no matter how badly you want my world to be like yours.

 

[Foxfyre]

This short CNN piece illustrates the problem but really minimalizes the impact:
Animas River spill The massive toll by the numbers - CNN.com

There is no way to fully quantify the cost to those affected by the toxic spill--communities who depended on the rivers for their water supply and that includes household use as well as hundreds of businesses and the jobs dependent on those businesses, the Navajo nation and others who depended on the river water for their crops and livestock, the important tourist industry dependent on water that for awhile people were advised to not even touch, let alone drink. And yes my own city depends on the Animas/San Juan rivers for some of its drinking water.

And yes the EPA now says the headwaters of the spill are now safe to drink, but would you? Knowing that a few days ago health official were saying not to even touch that water?
EPA officials say Animas River water safe to drink again after toxic spill

But the fact is, the Animas River has been contaminated by mine tailings, etc. for a very long time now and little or nothing has been done to remedy that. And I think I read that there are at least 500 other old mining operations that currently need clean up and that are likely leaching toxic stuff into running water and/or ground water.

But there will no doubt be compensation for at least some directly impacted by the spill. And that will cost us all. At least when a private corporation screws up THEY pay instead of the rest of us.

 

[jc456]

This short CNN piece illustrates the problem but really minimalizes the impact:
Animas River spill The massive toll by the numbers - CNN.com

There is no way to fully quantify the cost to those affected by the toxic spill--communities who depended on the rivers for their water supply and that includes household use as well as hundreds of businesses and the jobs dependent on those businesses, the Navajo nation and others who depended on the river water for their crops and livestock, the important tourist industry dependent on water that for awhile people were advised to not even touch, let alone drink. And yes my own city depends on the Animas/San Juan rivers for some of its drinking water.

And yes the EPA now says the headwaters of the spill are now safe to drink, but would you? Knowing that a few days ago health official were saying not to even touch that water?
EPA officials say Animas River water safe to drink again after toxic spill

But the fact is, the Animas River has been contaminated by mine tailings, etc. for a very long time now and little or nothing has been done to remedy that. And I think I read that there are at least 500 other old mining operations that currently need clean up and that are likely leaching toxic stuff into running water and/or ground water.

But there will no doubt be compensation for at least some directly impacted by the spill. And that will cost us all. At least when a private corporation screws up THEY pay instead of the rest of us.

that isn't true! How can you make such a statement. The cost of goods goes up to recoup their losses. Nothing is ever free. Only liberals believe things are actually free. They sell that to the blacks everyday. That's why cities like Detroit and Chicago have such wealthy black neighborhoods.

 

[Foxfyre]

This short CNN piece illustrates the problem but really minimalizes the impact:
Animas River spill The massive toll by the numbers - CNN.com

There is no way to fully quantify the cost to those affected by the toxic spill--communities who depended on the rivers for their water supply and that includes household use as well as hundreds of businesses and the jobs dependent on those businesses, the Navajo nation and others who depended on the river water for their crops and livestock, the important tourist industry dependent on water that for awhile people were advised to not even touch, let alone drink. And yes my own city depends on the Animas/San Juan rivers for some of its drinking water.

And yes the EPA now says the headwaters of the spill are now safe to drink, but would you? Knowing that a few days ago health official were saying not to even touch that water?
EPA officials say Animas River water safe to drink again after toxic spill

But the fact is, the Animas River has been contaminated by mine tailings, etc. for a very long time now and little or nothing has been done to remedy that. And I think I read that there are at least 500 other old mining operations that currently need clean up and that are likely leaching toxic stuff into running water and/or ground water.

But there will no doubt be compensation for at least some directly impacted by the spill. And that will cost us all. At least when a private corporation screws up THEY pay instead of the rest of us.

that isn't true! How can you make such a statement. The cost of goods goes up to recoup their losses. Nothing is ever free. Only liberals believe things are actually free. They sell that to the blacks everyday. That's why cities like Detroit and Chicago have such wealthy black neighborhoods.

I'm sure that makes perfectly good sense to you. I'm sorry, but I don't see it as relevent to what I said. If one business has to pay for the damage it does, that does not necessarily translate into all businesses or their customers being affected. Also the costs paid by a private entity are generally the actual costs with some legal costs and perhaps some punative dollars involved if there is clearly negligence. Whenever the government is involved, it almost always includes a lot of tax payer dollars being swallowed up to fund the bureaucracy and its lawyers and line the pockets of bureaucrats and others as well as what is actually paid in damages.

 

[Stephanie]

Why aren't these EPA saboteurs in jail?

Hell, they'll probably be getting promoted . Look at dummy woman put in charge of starting up of that billion dollar OscamCare? problems after problems ad not one person lost their job. They can screw up all they want nobody will say anything. These people have jobs for life I guess we might as well just accept it

 

[flacaltenn]

Why aren't these EPA saboteurs in jail?

Same reason Hillary Clinton doesn't have to post bail to run for Prez... NO ONE EVER gets punished in Govt unless you are a whistle blower..

 

[Foxfyre]

Why aren't these EPA saboteurs in jail?

Same reason Hillary Clinton doesn't have to post bail to run for Prez... NO ONE EVER gets punished in Govt unless you are a whistle blower..

This is sadly often true. I think because so few have clean hands they are really reluctant to accuse their fellows lest their fellows retaliate in kind. And those trying to land the cushy civil servant jobs paying big bucks and offering lots of perks are not going to wreck their careers by ratting on their bosses.

Having said that, I really don't believe there was intention or criminal negligence in the case of the Animas River contamination. I think it was a pure accident. Due to incompetence perhaps, but an accident. Should those harmed be compensated? Yes. Should those responsible be fired? Perhaps--if their judgment or abilities aren't up to that kind of work, they should not be doing that kind of work.

 

[flacaltenn]

Why aren't these EPA saboteurs in jail?

Same reason Hillary Clinton doesn't have to post bail to run for Prez... NO ONE EVER gets punished in Govt unless you are a whistle blower..

This is sadly often true. I think because so few have clean hands they are really reluctant to accuse their fellows lest their fellows retaliate in kind. And those trying to land the cushy civil servant jobs paying big bucks and offering lots of perks are not going to wreck their careers by ratting on their bosses.

Having said that, I really don't believe there was intention or criminal negligence in the case of the Animas River contamination. I think it was a pure accident. Due to incompetence perhaps, but an accident. Should those harmed be compensated? Yes. Should those responsible be fired? Perhaps--if their judgment or abilities aren't up to that kind of work, they should not be doing that kind of work.

It was said - I haven't verified -- that the locals and the owners WARNED the EPA not to mess with it. EPA at one time wanted to designate that entire region a SuperFund site, but of course, the locals disagreed. That waste was contained for over 100 years !!!
There should have been no rush to dispose of it.. Shouldn't have to be done on a finely tuned Gannt Chart timetable with huge management involvement.

Because the NATURAL runoff from those hills already gives the river a large background reading for the same contaminants. People who live there and understand that this river NATURALLY changes color seasonally and has a certain level of natural "pollution" should have been in charge.

 

[Foxfyre]

Why aren't these EPA saboteurs in jail?

Same reason Hillary Clinton doesn't have to post bail to run for Prez... NO ONE EVER gets punished in Govt unless you are a whistle blower..

This is sadly often true. I think because so few have clean hands they are really reluctant to accuse their fellows lest their fellows retaliate in kind. And those trying to land the cushy civil servant jobs paying big bucks and offering lots of perks are not going to wreck their careers by ratting on their bosses.

Having said that, I really don't believe there was intention or criminal negligence in the case of the Animas River contamination. I think it was a pure accident. Due to incompetence perhaps, but an accident. Should those harmed be compensated? Yes. Should those responsible be fired? Perhaps--if their judgment or abilities aren't up to that kind of work, they should not be doing that kind of work.

It was said - I haven't verified -- that the locals and the owners WARNED the EPA not to mess with it. EPA at one time wanted to designate that entire region a SuperFund site, but of course, the locals disagreed. That waste was contained for over 100 years !!!
There should have been no rush to dispose of it.. Shouldn't have to be done on a finely tuned Gannt Chart timetable with huge management involvement.

Because the NATURAL runoff from those hills already gives the river a large background reading for the same contaminants. People who live there and understand that this river NATURALLY changes color seasonally and has a certain level of natural "pollution" should have been in charge.

I have not seen or heard that from the locals here or those who live in and around that area, and the MSM isn't picking it up, so that could be an urban legend. Or not. Who knows? All sorts of conspiracy theories are beginning to show up on blogs and message boards and social media. If you do verify it, I \would like to know.

Given the track record of the current administration to blame anything and everybody other than themselves for the messes they make as well as accusing people of making things a bigger deal than they are, I am not really confident that the EPA will be totally up front and honest about this either.

 

[jc456]

This short CNN piece illustrates the problem but really minimalizes the impact:
Animas River spill The massive toll by the numbers - CNN.com

There is no way to fully quantify the cost to those affected by the toxic spill--communities who depended on the rivers for their water supply and that includes household use as well as hundreds of businesses and the jobs dependent on those businesses, the Navajo nation and others who depended on the river water for their crops and livestock, the important tourist industry dependent on water that for awhile people were advised to not even touch, let alone drink. And yes my own city depends on the Animas/San Juan rivers for some of its drinking water.

And yes the EPA now says the headwaters of the spill are now safe to drink, but would you? Knowing that a few days ago health official were saying not to even touch that water?
EPA officials say Animas River water safe to drink again after toxic spill

But the fact is, the Animas River has been contaminated by mine tailings, etc. for a very long time now and little or nothing has been done to remedy that. And I think I read that there are at least 500 other old mining operations that currently need clean up and that are likely leaching toxic stuff into running water and/or ground water.

But there will no doubt be compensation for at least some directly impacted by the spill. And that will cost us all. At least when a private corporation screws up THEY pay instead of the rest of us.

that isn't true! How can you make such a statement. The cost of goods goes up to recoup their losses. Nothing is ever free. Only liberals believe things are actually free. They sell that to the blacks everyday. That's why cities like Detroit and Chicago have such wealthy black neighborhoods.

I'm sure that makes perfectly good sense to you. I'm sorry, but I don't see it as relevent to what I said. If one business has to pay for the damage it does, that does not necessarily translate into all businesses or their customers being affected. Also the costs paid by a private entity are generally the actual costs with some legal costs and perhaps some punative dollars involved if there is clearly negligence. Whenever the government is involved, it almost always includes a lot of tax payer dollars being swallowed up to fund the bureaucracy and its lawyers and line the pockets of bureaucrats and others as well as what is actually paid in damages.

Dude, I explained how. Prices go up. What is hard to understand? They get their money back from consumers/ tax payers.

 

[Foxfyre]

This short CNN piece illustrates the problem but really minimalizes the impact:
Animas River spill The massive toll by the numbers - CNN.com

There is no way to fully quantify the cost to those affected by the toxic spill--communities who depended on the rivers for their water supply and that includes household use as well as hundreds of businesses and the jobs dependent on those businesses, the Navajo nation and others who depended on the river water for their crops and livestock, the important tourist industry dependent on water that for awhile people were advised to not even touch, let alone drink. And yes my own city depends on the Animas/San Juan rivers for some of its drinking water.

And yes the EPA now says the headwaters of the spill are now safe to drink, but would you? Knowing that a few days ago health official were saying not to even touch that water?
EPA officials say Animas River water safe to drink again after toxic spill

But the fact is, the Animas River has been contaminated by mine tailings, etc. for a very long time now and little or nothing has been done to remedy that. And I think I read that there are at least 500 other old mining operations that currently need clean up and that are likely leaching toxic stuff into running water and/or ground water.

But there will no doubt be compensation for at least some directly impacted by the spill. And that will cost us all. At least when a private corporation screws up THEY pay instead of the rest of us.

that isn't true! How can you make such a statement. The cost of goods goes up to recoup their losses. Nothing is ever free. Only liberals believe things are actually free. They sell that to the blacks everyday. That's why cities like Detroit and Chicago have such wealthy black neighborhoods.

I'm sure that makes perfectly good sense to you. I'm sorry, but I don't see it as relevent to what I said. If one business has to pay for the damage it does, that does not necessarily translate into all businesses or their customers being affected. Also the costs paid by a private entity are generally the actual costs with some legal costs and perhaps some punative dollars involved if there is clearly negligence. Whenever the government is involved, it almost always includes a lot of tax payer dollars being swallowed up to fund the bureaucracy and its lawyers and line the pockets of bureaucrats and others as well as what is actually paid in damages.

Dude, I explained how. Prices go up. What is hard to understand? They get their money back from consumers/ tax payers.

Dude, I explained how when government pays, we all pay. But if one private business raises its prices, that does not automatically raise everybody else's prices. What is hard to understand?

 

[jc456]

This short CNN piece illustrates the problem but really minimalizes the impact:
Animas River spill The massive toll by the numbers - CNN.com

There is no way to fully quantify the cost to those affected by the toxic spill--communities who depended on the rivers for their water supply and that includes household use as well as hundreds of businesses and the jobs dependent on those businesses, the Navajo nation and others who depended on the river water for their crops and livestock, the important tourist industry dependent on water that for awhile people were advised to not even touch, let alone drink. And yes my own city depends on the Animas/San Juan rivers for some of its drinking water.

And yes the EPA now says the headwaters of the spill are now safe to drink, but would you? Knowing that a few days ago health official were saying not to even touch that water?
EPA officials say Animas River water safe to drink again after toxic spill

But the fact is, the Animas River has been contaminated by mine tailings, etc. for a very long time now and little or nothing has been done to remedy that. And I think I read that there are at least 500 other old mining operations that currently need clean up and that are likely leaching toxic stuff into running water and/or ground water.

But there will no doubt be compensation for at least some directly impacted by the spill. And that will cost us all. At least when a private corporation screws up THEY pay instead of the rest of us.

that isn't true! How can you make such a statement. The cost of goods goes up to recoup their losses. Nothing is ever free. Only liberals believe things are actually free. They sell that to the blacks everyday. That's why cities like Detroit and Chicago have such wealthy black neighborhoods.

I'm sure that makes perfectly good sense to you. I'm sorry, but I don't see it as relevent to what I said. If one business has to pay for the damage it does, that does not necessarily translate into all businesses or their customers being affected. Also the costs paid by a private entity are generally the actual costs with some legal costs and perhaps some punative dollars involved if there is clearly negligence. Whenever the government is involved, it almost always includes a lot of tax payer dollars being swallowed up to fund the bureaucracy and its lawyers and line the pockets of bureaucrats and others as well as what is actually paid in damages.

Dude, I explained how. Prices go up. What is hard to understand? They get their money back from consumers/ tax payers.

Dude, I explained how when government pays, we all pay. But if one private business raises its prices, that does not automatically raise everybody else's prices. What is hard to understand?

Not everyone pays taxes fool. So still no difference

 

[Foxfyre]

This short CNN piece illustrates the problem but really minimalizes the impact:
Animas River spill The massive toll by the numbers - CNN.com

There is no way to fully quantify the cost to those affected by the toxic spill--communities who depended on the rivers for their water supply and that includes household use as well as hundreds of businesses and the jobs dependent on those businesses, the Navajo nation and others who depended on the river water for their crops and livestock, the important tourist industry dependent on water that for awhile people were advised to not even touch, let alone drink. And yes my own city depends on the Animas/San Juan rivers for some of its drinking water.

And yes the EPA now says the headwaters of the spill are now safe to drink, but would you? Knowing that a few days ago health official were saying not to even touch that water?
EPA officials say Animas River water safe to drink again after toxic spill

But the fact is, the Animas River has been contaminated by mine tailings, etc. for a very long time now and little or nothing has been done to remedy that. And I think I read that there are at least 500 other old mining operations that currently need clean up and that are likely leaching toxic stuff into running water and/or ground water.

But there will no doubt be compensation for at least some directly impacted by the spill. And that will cost us all. At least when a private corporation screws up THEY pay instead of the rest of us.

that isn't true! How can you make such a statement. The cost of goods goes up to recoup their losses. Nothing is ever free. Only liberals believe things are actually free. They sell that to the blacks everyday. That's why cities like Detroit and Chicago have such wealthy black neighborhoods.

I'm sure that makes perfectly good sense to you. I'm sorry, but I don't see it as relevent to what I said. If one business has to pay for the damage it does, that does not necessarily translate into all businesses or their customers being affected. Also the costs paid by a private entity are generally the actual costs with some legal costs and perhaps some punative dollars involved if there is clearly negligence. Whenever the government is involved, it almost always includes a lot of tax payer dollars being swallowed up to fund the bureaucracy and its lawyers and line the pockets of bureaucrats and others as well as what is actually paid in damages.

Dude, I explained how. Prices go up. What is hard to understand? They get their money back from consumers/ tax payers.

Dude, I explained how when government pays, we all pay. But if one private business raises its prices, that does not automatically raise everybody else's prices. What is hard to understand?

Not everyone pays taxes fool. So still no difference

Again I'm sure that makes perfectly good sense to you. I, however, wasn't commenting on taxes but the cost to us all re what government does vs what private business does which was what the conversation was about. But oh well. Have a nice day.

 

[jc456]

that isn't true! How can you make such a statement. The cost of goods goes up to recoup their losses. Nothing is ever free. Only liberals believe things are actually free. They sell that to the blacks everyday. That's why cities like Detroit and Chicago have such wealthy black neighborhoods.

I'm sure that makes perfectly good sense to you. I'm sorry, but I don't see it as relevent to what I said. If one business has to pay for the damage it does, that does not necessarily translate into all businesses or their customers being affected. Also the costs paid by a private entity are generally the actual costs with some legal costs and perhaps some punative dollars involved if there is clearly negligence. Whenever the government is involved, it almost always includes a lot of tax payer dollars being swallowed up to fund the bureaucracy and its lawyers and line the pockets of bureaucrats and others as well as what is actually paid in damages.

Dude, I explained how. Prices go up. What is hard to understand? They get their money back from consumers/ tax payers.

Dude, I explained how when government pays, we all pay. But if one private business raises its prices, that does not automatically raise everybody else's prices. What is hard to understand?

Not everyone pays taxes fool. So still no difference

Again I'm sure that makes perfectly good sense to you. I, however, wasn't commenting on taxes but the cost to us all re what government does vs what private business does which was what the conversation was about. But oh well. Have a nice day.

Same with me. You seem uneducated on how money flows in the country.

 

[ScienceRocks]

Some people need to be fired but to defend what the corporations do all the time is sick. Fucking sick and it says to me that you enjoy sucking up crap water, smog filled air and eating food covered in crap. fact.

 

[Foxfyre]

I'm sure that makes perfectly good sense to you. I'm sorry, but I don't see it as relevent to what I said. If one business has to pay for the damage it does, that does not necessarily translate into all businesses or their customers being affected. Also the costs paid by a private entity are generally the actual costs with some legal costs and perhaps some punative dollars involved if there is clearly negligence. Whenever the government is involved, it almost always includes a lot of tax payer dollars being swallowed up to fund the bureaucracy and its lawyers and line the pockets of bureaucrats and others as well as what is actually paid in damages.

Dude, I explained how. Prices go up. What is hard to understand? They get their money back from consumers/ tax payers.

Dude, I explained how when government pays, we all pay. But if one private business raises its prices, that does not automatically raise everybody else's prices. What is hard to understand?

Not everyone pays taxes fool. So still no difference

Again I'm sure that makes perfectly good sense to you. I, however, wasn't commenting on taxes but the cost to us all re what government does vs what private business does which was what the conversation was about. But oh well. Have a nice day.

Same with me. You seem uneducated on how money flows in the country.

Well at least I know the difference between the cost of something and taxes.

 

[Bfgrn]

Animas River Massive Waste Spill Turns River Orange

A Massive Waste Spill Turned This River in Colorado Orange
Maya Rhodan @m_rhodan Aug. 6, 2015

Jerry McBride—Durango Herald


Mine waste from the Gold King Mine north of Silverton fills the Animas River at Bakers Bridge on Aug. 6, 2015 in Durango, Colo.


The EPA accidentally caused the spill, reports say

About 1 million gallons of mine waste spilled into a Colorado waterway on Wednesday, turning the water bright orange and prompting officials to warn residents to avoid recreational use of the Animas River.

San Juan County health officials say the Environmental Protection Agency and the state Division of Reclamation, Mining and Safety were investigating

another contamination when they “unexpectedly triggered a large release of mine waste water into the upper portions of Cement Creek.” Cement Creek is a tributary of the Animas River.

Hey Einstein, if we fine the government, the fine is paid by WHOM...

Take your time...

Hey Einstein, for them to clean it up, is going to be paid by WHOM? Magic money trees they have growing?

The "same" people who will pay for the cleanup (TAXPAYERS) should also be fined?

 

[jc456]

Dude, I explained how. Prices go up. What is hard to understand? They get their money back from consumers/ tax payers.

Dude, I explained how when government pays, we all pay. But if one private business raises its prices, that does not automatically raise everybody else's prices. What is hard to understand?

Not everyone pays taxes fool. So still no difference

Again I'm sure that makes perfectly good sense to you. I, however, wasn't commenting on taxes but the cost to us all re what government does vs what private business does which was what the conversation was about. But oh well. Have a nice day.

Same with me. You seem uneducated on how money flows in the country.

Well at least I know the difference between the cost of something and taxes.

no, you don't.

 

[jc456]

Animas River Massive Waste Spill Turns River Orange

A Massive Waste Spill Turned This River in Colorado Orange
Maya Rhodan @m_rhodan Aug. 6, 2015

Jerry McBride—Durango Herald


Mine waste from the Gold King Mine north of Silverton fills the Animas River at Bakers Bridge on Aug. 6, 2015 in Durango, Colo.


The EPA accidentally caused the spill, reports say

About 1 million gallons of mine waste spilled into a Colorado waterway on Wednesday, turning the water bright orange and prompting officials to warn residents to avoid recreational use of the Animas River.

San Juan County health officials say the Environmental Protection Agency and the state Division of Reclamation, Mining and Safety were investigating

another contamination when they “unexpectedly triggered a large release of mine waste water into the upper portions of Cement Creek.” Cement Creek is a tributary of the Animas River.

Hey Einstein, if we fine the government, the fine is paid by WHOM...

Take your time...

Hey Einstein, for them to clean it up, is going to be paid by WHOM? Magic money trees they have growing?

The "same" people who will pay for the cleanup (TAXPAYERS) should also be fined?

How do you figure that? All it takes is to have the EPA use funds already allocated for other things to pay for this. No budget increase! No reward for being wannabee engineers and shit. Nope. No money from the taxpayers. That money is already there.

 

[Bfgrn]

How do you figure that? All it takes is to have the EPA use funds already allocated for other things to pay for this. No budget increase! No reward for being wannabee engineers and shit. Nope. No money from the taxpayers. That money is already there.

And WHERE did that money come from Einstein?