How long before we get negative interest rates, hyper inflation, and a total economic collapse?

[Toddsterpatriot]

Many liberals and conservatives recognized it as corporate welfare.

The Fed bought Treasuries and guaranteed MBS.....how is that corporate welfare?

 

[Utilitarian]

Many liberals and conservatives recognized it as corporate welfare.

The Fed bought Treasuries and guaranteed MBS.....how is that corporate welfare?

In November 2008 alone, the Fed Reserve bought $600 billion in MBS's. When the government buys MBS's, that pads the funds of banks. That's not the same thing as guaranteeing MBS's. Although even guaranteeing them is problematic.

An actual free market doesn't get bailouts and lets the market itself clear things. It may be rough when things crash, but it's better than having a system where banks take massive risks due to a lack of real consequences.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Many liberals and conservatives recognized it as corporate welfare.

The Fed bought Treasuries and guaranteed MBS.....how is that corporate welfare?

In November 2008 alone, the Fed Reserve bought $600 billion in MBS's. When the government buys MBS's, that pads the funds of banks. That's not the same thing as guaranteeing MBS's. Although even guaranteeing them is problematic.

An actual free market doesn't get bailouts and lets the market itself clear things. It may be rough when things crash, but it's better than having a system where banks take massive risks due to a lack of real consequences.

In November 2008 alone, the Fed Reserve bought $600 billion in MBS's.

Your math sounds waaaay off. Got a link?

When the government buys MBS's, that pads the funds of banks.

Pads the funds? Is that a technical term?
They exchanged cash, which yielded 0.25%, for guaranteed securities, which yielded much more.

That's not the same thing as guaranteeing MBS's.

They were guaranteed before the Fed bought them

An actual free market doesn't get bailouts and lets the market itself clear things.

Yeah, profitable, quickly repaid, short-term loans were awful.
We should have let 30% of the banks fail, like in the 30s.

but it's better than having a system where banks take massive risks due to a lack of real consequences.

I know, risky mortgages, awful! Lack of consequences?
Banks lost hundreds of billions. Most big bank CEOs lost their jobs.
Bears Stearns, Wachovia and Washington Mutual were sold for pennies on the dollar.
Lehmann failed.
No consequences?

 

[Utilitarian]

Many liberals and conservatives recognized it as corporate welfare.

The Fed bought Treasuries and guaranteed MBS.....how is that corporate welfare?

In November 2008 alone, the Fed Reserve bought $600 billion in MBS's. When the government buys MBS's, that pads the funds of banks. That's not the same thing as guaranteeing MBS's. Although even guaranteeing them is problematic.

An actual free market doesn't get bailouts and lets the market itself clear things. It may be rough when things crash, but it's better than having a system where banks take massive risks due to a lack of real consequences.

In November 2008 alone, the Fed Reserve bought $600 billion in MBS's.

Your math sounds waaaay off. Got a link?

When the government buys MBS's, that pads the funds of banks.

Pads the funds? Is that a technical term?
They exchanged cash, which yielded 0.25%, for guaranteed securities, which yielded much more.

That's not the same thing as guaranteeing MBS's.

They were guaranteed before the Fed bought them

An actual free market doesn't get bailouts and lets the market itself clear things.

Yeah, profitable, quickly repaid, short-term loans were awful.
We should have let 30% of the banks fail, like in the 30s.

but it's better than having a system where banks take massive risks due to a lack of real consequences.

I know, risky mortgages, awful! Lack of consequences?
Banks lost hundreds of billions. Most big bank CEOs lost their jobs.
Bears Stearns, Wachovia and Washington Mutual were sold for pennies on the dollar.
Lehmann failed.
No consequences?

Ok, if QE is ok, then why stop with the current measures? MMT would be the next logical step if it's ok for the government to throw money at banks.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Many liberals and conservatives recognized it as corporate welfare.

The Fed bought Treasuries and guaranteed MBS.....how is that corporate welfare?

In November 2008 alone, the Fed Reserve bought $600 billion in MBS's. When the government buys MBS's, that pads the funds of banks. That's not the same thing as guaranteeing MBS's. Although even guaranteeing them is problematic.

An actual free market doesn't get bailouts and lets the market itself clear things. It may be rough when things crash, but it's better than having a system where banks take massive risks due to a lack of real consequences.

In November 2008 alone, the Fed Reserve bought $600 billion in MBS's.

Your math sounds waaaay off. Got a link?

When the government buys MBS's, that pads the funds of banks.

Pads the funds? Is that a technical term?
They exchanged cash, which yielded 0.25%, for guaranteed securities, which yielded much more.

That's not the same thing as guaranteeing MBS's.

They were guaranteed before the Fed bought them

An actual free market doesn't get bailouts and lets the market itself clear things.

Yeah, profitable, quickly repaid, short-term loans were awful.
We should have let 30% of the banks fail, like in the 30s.

but it's better than having a system where banks take massive risks due to a lack of real consequences.

I know, risky mortgages, awful! Lack of consequences?
Banks lost hundreds of billions. Most big bank CEOs lost their jobs.
Bears Stearns, Wachovia and Washington Mutual were sold for pennies on the dollar.
Lehmann failed.
No consequences?

Ok, if QE is ok, then why stop with the current measures? MMT would be the next logical step if it's ok for the government to throw money at banks.

Ok, if QE is ok

Wait, we were still discussing your ideas about corporate welfare.

MMT would be the next logical step if it's ok for the government to throw money at banks.

How is buying US Treasuries and MBS throwing money at banks?
And banks actually increased their holdings during this timeframe, so the Fed was buying from the public.

 

[Utilitarian]

Ok, if QE is ok

Wait, we were still discussing your ideas about corporate welfare.

MMT would be the next logical step if it's ok for the government to throw money at banks.

How is buying US Treasuries and MBS throwing money at banks?
And banks actually increased their holdings during this timeframe, so the Fed was buying from the public.

We clearly define it very differently, which is why I moved on to MMT. Nevertheless, how else would you describe using tax money to buy MBS's? MBS's are instruments based on private mortgages.

 

[kaz]

My Conservative friends tell me that Q.E. is a great thing.

Huh. This word you are using, Conservative. It is apparently a use of the word I hadn't heard before

 

[Rigby5]

Quanitative easing is at an all time high. (Libs, if you dont know what that is, ask a conservative friend) The M1 money supply curve looks like the face of El Capitan. We are spending and spending. (Yes, Trump spent too....I get it...he should have vetoed every budget.)

I think we have at most 10 years......AT THE CURRENT PACE.

We can change things...but we likely will not.

My guess is the Fed is trying to devalue the dollar to make our debt worthless. If the dollar has no value...our 30 trillion dollar debt has no value to our lenders.

Yawn. Or grow the economy so much that the national debt becomes a much smaller piece of the financial equation. Think about it.

Don't mean to blame Trump since it was likely more the epidemic, but we certainly did not grow the economy.
We greatly shrank the economy, combined with devaluing dollar and national debt increase, it looks very bad to me.

 

[Rigby5]

..they are giving BILLIONS to foreign countries!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!...total idiocy -----during the pandemic and when we are in debt!!!! the Capitol NEEDS to be invaded and every politician hit in the head with a frying pan
.....it's like putting your hand in the fire---over and over ---and then jumping in

US is robbing other countries much more.
if the US gives anything at all, it's mostly cents compared to trillions pumped out of other countrirs.

starting with printing money, which is a way to rob all holders of Dollars since dollars they have depreciate...

hahhahahahhahahahahahahah
1. we take in hundreds of THOUSANDS of immigrants/illegals/workers/etc--per YEAR!!!!
2. we help more than any other country in natural disasters including BILLION $ carriers/etc
3. many illegals/immigrants send $$$$ BACK to their home countries
4. you are full of shit
we just gave BILLIONS $$ for Covid to other countries !!!!
5. Americans give to charities and their personal time to foreign countries
6. etc

Billions in foreign aid, pet projects stuffed into COVID relief bill

Uncle Sam is about to play Santa for America — and the world. Congress passed a $2.3 trillion COVID-19 relief and government funding bill that gives just $600 to most Americans strugglin…

nypost.com

Don't agree.
Immigrants are just cheaper labor and more customers.
We don't give anything free on natural disasters in other countries, we set up US businesses to take over their market.
Immigrants working here get paid a tiny fraction of their value, and can't even send much of that back.
We did not give any money for covid to any country, but made tax payers buy more profit to Pfizer.
Charities are just a tax dodge.
Most foreign aid is for roads, utilities, etc., for US own businesses in foreign countries.

 

[Rigby5]

Well, if we listen to conservatives, we should see hyperinflation right around 2010.

Precisely. Inflation was supposed to explode due to the Fed intervention to bail us out of the Meltdown. And it didn't happen.

We don't know for sure. People can make all the ignorant prognostications they want -- that doesn't mean they know what they're talking about.

inflation in consumer goods did not explode because due to carantine and big increase in unemployment public demand collapsed, causing deflation.

but in stocks there is massive inflation.

in housing, health care, education - there is big inflation.
real estate prices started growing all over the World, people feel inflation coming and transfer savings into something material

and soon or even now raw materials started to groe, look at oil..

We just finished nearly a decade of large federal deficits, quantitative easing and declining unemployment.

Inflation was minimal.

At some point, you need to reconsider your assumptions of how the economy works. This ain’t Weimar.

how is inflation minimal when most prices have gone up 50% and some have almost doubled???

OH wait,,never mind I forgot who I was talking too,,,

Most prices?

List a few for us, please.

2 yrs ago a 4x8x7/16 OSB was 8 bucks now they are over 30,, a 2x4 stud was under 3 now hey are almost 10 bucks,,,

across the board all basic construction materials have done more than doubled and some by 4,,,

I could go on all day,,,

Construction materials are one thing, and are associated with supply and demand brought on by the strong spike in real estate over the last several years.

Overall, inflation has remained quite tame.

A healthy economy needs some inflation, and we are deflating, with interest rates back down to 2.5%.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Quanitative easing is at an all time high. (Libs, if you dont know what that is, ask a conservative friend) The M1 money supply curve looks like the face of El Capitan. We are spending and spending. (Yes, Trump spent too....I get it...he should have vetoed every budget.)

I think we have at most 10 years......AT THE CURRENT PACE.

We can change things...but we likely will not.

My guess is the Fed is trying to devalue the dollar to make our debt worthless. If the dollar has no value...our 30 trillion dollar debt has no value to our lenders.

It almost happened with Obama. You will remember he suggested negative interest rates, only for the uber elitist investment class of course.

 

[Siberian]

you don't have 10 years.

Quanitative easing is at an all time high. (Libs, if you dont know what that is, ask a conservative friend) The M1 money supply curve looks like the face of El Capitan. We are spending and spending. (Yes, Trump spent too....I get it...he should have vetoed every budget.)

I think we have at most 10 years......AT THE CURRENT PACE.

We can change things...but we likely will not.

My guess is the Fed is trying to devalue the dollar to make our debt worthless. If the dollar has no value...our 30 trillion dollar debt has no value to our lenders.

I don't think you have 10 years.
China will overcome the US as the biggest World economy in 5-7 years, I think by that time Dollar will not be the World trade currency... It is going to introduce digital Yuan soon, as well the US ran out of options trying to subdue Russia, the only 2 options left - military conflict, which will destroy World finances and Dollar in the course, or exlusion of Russia from World finances, which will effecfively establish Rouble-nominated oil trade and destroy Petrodollar again...

I think 5 years at most, if you are extremely lucky.
More likely a couple of years...

I think by that time Dollar will not be the World trade currency... It is going to introduce digital Yuan soon

But who wants to hold the Yuan or the Ruble or the Peso as their reserve currency?

as well the US ran out of options trying to subdue Russia

Why do we need to subdue them, they do that to themselves just fine.

establish Rouble-nominated oil trade

No one who has a choice wants to hold their crappy currency.

after trillions of Dollars a year printed by the Fed (and ECB, and BoE, and BoJ) there will be no credible currency soon. It is what makes situation even more disastrouse. Gold will be thd king and Russia has one if the biggest gold reserves in the World. If it ties Rouble to gold - it sill be the best currency, after Zwiss Franc.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Ok, if QE is ok

Wait, we were still discussing your ideas about corporate welfare.

MMT would be the next logical step if it's ok for the government to throw money at banks.

How is buying US Treasuries and MBS throwing money at banks?
And banks actually increased their holdings during this timeframe, so the Fed was buying from the public.

We clearly define it very differently, which is why I moved on to MMT. Nevertheless, how else would you describe using tax money to buy MBS's? MBS's are instruments based on private mortgages.

We clearly define it very differently,

Yes, you clearly have the wrong definition.

Nevertheless, how else would you describe using tax money to buy MBS's?

No tax dollars were used.

How was it corporate welfare? Or are you off that claim?

MBS's are instruments based on private mortgages.

Okay. And?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

you don't have 10 years.

Quanitative easing is at an all time high. (Libs, if you dont know what that is, ask a conservative friend) The M1 money supply curve looks like the face of El Capitan. We are spending and spending. (Yes, Trump spent too....I get it...he should have vetoed every budget.)

I think we have at most 10 years......AT THE CURRENT PACE.

We can change things...but we likely will not.

My guess is the Fed is trying to devalue the dollar to make our debt worthless. If the dollar has no value...our 30 trillion dollar debt has no value to our lenders.

I don't think you have 10 years.
China will overcome the US as the biggest World economy in 5-7 years, I think by that time Dollar will not be the World trade currency... It is going to introduce digital Yuan soon, as well the US ran out of options trying to subdue Russia, the only 2 options left - military conflict, which will destroy World finances and Dollar in the course, or exlusion of Russia from World finances, which will effecfively establish Rouble-nominated oil trade and destroy Petrodollar again...

I think 5 years at most, if you are extremely lucky.
More likely a couple of years...

I think by that time Dollar will not be the World trade currency... It is going to introduce digital Yuan soon

But who wants to hold the Yuan or the Ruble or the Peso as their reserve currency?

as well the US ran out of options trying to subdue Russia

Why do we need to subdue them, they do that to themselves just fine.

establish Rouble-nominated oil trade

No one who has a choice wants to hold their crappy currency.

after trillions of Dollars a year printed by the Fed (and ECB, and BoE, and BoJ) there will be no credible currency soon. It is what makes situation even more disastrouse. Gold will be thd king and Russia has one if the biggest gold reserves in the World. If it ties Rouble to gold - it sill be the best currency, after Zwiss Franc.

after trillions of Dollars a year printed by the Fed (and ECB, and BoE, and BoJ) there will be no credible currency soon.

So the Yuan won't be credible, because their QE was bigger than ours?

Gold will be thd king and Russia has one if the biggest gold reserves in the World. If it ties Rouble to gold - it sill be the best currency, after Zwiss Franc.

No one is going to trust a ruble, even if they pretend it is backed by gold.

 

[harmonica]

..they are giving BILLIONS to foreign countries!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!...total idiocy -----during the pandemic and when we are in debt!!!! the Capitol NEEDS to be invaded and every politician hit in the head with a frying pan
.....it's like putting your hand in the fire---over and over ---and then jumping in

US is robbing other countries much more.
if the US gives anything at all, it's mostly cents compared to trillions pumped out of other countrirs.

starting with printing money, which is a way to rob all holders of Dollars since dollars they have depreciate...

hahhahahahhahahahahahahah
1. we take in hundreds of THOUSANDS of immigrants/illegals/workers/etc--per YEAR!!!!
2. we help more than any other country in natural disasters including BILLION $ carriers/etc
3. many illegals/immigrants send $$$$ BACK to their home countries
4. you are full of shit
we just gave BILLIONS $$ for Covid to other countries !!!!
5. Americans give to charities and their personal time to foreign countries
6. etc

Billions in foreign aid, pet projects stuffed into COVID relief bill

Uncle Sam is about to play Santa for America — and the world. Congress passed a $2.3 trillion COVID-19 relief and government funding bill that gives just $600 to most Americans strugglin…

nypost.com

Don't agree.
Immigrants are just cheaper labor and more customers.
We don't give anything free on natural disasters in other countries, we set up US businesses to take over their market.
Immigrants working here get paid a tiny fraction of their value, and can't even send much of that back.
We did not give any money for covid to any country, but made tax payers buy more profit to Pfizer.
Charities are just a tax dodge.
Most foreign aid is for roads, utilities, etc., for US own businesses in foreign countries.

hahahahahhahahaha
you can disagree but the FACTS/truth say you are wrong
1.hey--the American tax payers pay for those carriers/etc
2. you need to learn economics = more workers = less pay--higher prices=standard of loving lower--this is basic ecnonomics
3.what planet do you live on because it's not Earth--or are you living in a hole?

us gives millions to other countries for covid - Google Search

www.google.com

 

[Utilitarian]

Ok, if QE is ok

Wait, we were still discussing your ideas about corporate welfare.

MMT would be the next logical step if it's ok for the government to throw money at banks.

How is buying US Treasuries and MBS throwing money at banks?
And banks actually increased their holdings during this timeframe, so the Fed was buying from the public.

We clearly define it very differently, which is why I moved on to MMT. Nevertheless, how else would you describe using tax money to buy MBS's? MBS's are instruments based on private mortgages.

We clearly define it very differently,

Yes, you clearly have the wrong definition.

Nevertheless, how else would you describe using tax money to buy MBS's?

No tax dollars were used.

How was it corporate welfare? Or are you off that claim?

MBS's are instruments based on private mortgages.

Okay. And?

So when government buys securities based on mortgage loans, that somehow doesn't involve tax money and does not qualify as corporate welfare? Elaborate on this.

 

[Utilitarian]

after trillions of Dollars a year printed by the Fed (and ECB, and BoE, and BoJ) there will be no credible currency soon.

So the Yuan won't be credible, because their QE was bigger than ours?

If printing money endlessly isn't an issue, why not just give every citizen $1 million?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Ok, if QE is ok

Wait, we were still discussing your ideas about corporate welfare.

MMT would be the next logical step if it's ok for the government to throw money at banks.

How is buying US Treasuries and MBS throwing money at banks?
And banks actually increased their holdings during this timeframe, so the Fed was buying from the public.

We clearly define it very differently, which is why I moved on to MMT. Nevertheless, how else would you describe using tax money to buy MBS's? MBS's are instruments based on private mortgages.

We clearly define it very differently,

Yes, you clearly have the wrong definition.

Nevertheless, how else would you describe using tax money to buy MBS's?

No tax dollars were used.

How was it corporate welfare? Or are you off that claim?

MBS's are instruments based on private mortgages.

Okay. And?

So when government buys securities based on mortgage loans, that somehow doesn't involve tax money and does not qualify as corporate welfare? Elaborate on this.

Are you confusing TARP loans with Fed QE?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

after trillions of Dollars a year printed by the Fed (and ECB, and BoE, and BoJ) there will be no credible currency soon.

So the Yuan won't be credible, because their QE was bigger than ours?

If printing money endlessly isn't an issue, why not just give every citizen $1 million?

If printing money endlessly isn't an issue,

Who said that? Where? Link?

 

[Utilitarian]

If printing money endlessly isn't an issue,

Who said that? Where? Link?

That other poster was referencing how much money we've printed for debt spending since the bailouts of 2008. That same debt just keeps rising dramatically with no end in sight. That does have an effect on the value of our currency and how much other nations trust it.