How long before Kurdistan becomes a "Problem"?

High_Gravity

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I have said this every trip over there and will continue to say it. Kurds are the only people in that region with any kind of sense and the only ones with the abillity to self govern. They are militarily and economically sound.
Yup, the Kurds are a good people with the resources and the people to run their own country, the only problem is they are hated and despised by all their neighbors/
 

RoccoR

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kirkuki; et al,

OK, I'll take the hit on that.

Turkish people are made up of a number of ethnic cultures
that is a false statement and that is what ataturk and turkey;s constitution does as well "deny 15 million kurds" , the correct statement should have been "turkey is made up of a number of ethnic cultures".
(COMMENT)

But the point is, the Kurd's are not denied representation as Turkish Citizens.

I. Turkish Citizenship ARTICLE 66. (As amended on October 17 said:
Everyone bound to the Turkish state through the bond of citizenship is a Turk.
The child of a Turkish father or a Turkish mother is a Turk.
Citizenship can be acquired under the conditions stipulated by law, and shall be forfeited
only in cases determined by law.
No Turk shall be deprived of citizenship, unless he commits an act incompatible with
loyalty to the motherland.
Recourse to the courts in appeal against the decisions and proceedings related to the
deprivation of citizenship, shall not be denied.
SOURCE: http://www.anayasa.gov.tr/images/loaded/pdf_dosyalari/THE_CONSTITUTION_OF_THE_REPUBLIC_OF_TURKEY.pdf
Everyone is a "Turk" in Turkey. The Constitution doesn't make a distinction between ethnic, tribal or religious affiliation.

Most Respectfully,
R
 

High_Gravity

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kirkuki; et al,

OK, I'll take the hit on that.

Turkish people are made up of a number of ethnic cultures
that is a false statement and that is what ataturk and turkey;s constitution does as well "deny 15 million kurds" , the correct statement should have been "turkey is made up of a number of ethnic cultures".
(COMMENT)

But the point is, the Kurd's are not denied representation as Turkish Citizens.

I. Turkish Citizenship ARTICLE 66. (As amended on October 17 said:
Everyone bound to the Turkish state through the bond of citizenship is a Turk.
The child of a Turkish father or a Turkish mother is a Turk.
Citizenship can be acquired under the conditions stipulated by law, and shall be forfeited
only in cases determined by law.
No Turk shall be deprived of citizenship, unless he commits an act incompatible with
loyalty to the motherland.
Recourse to the courts in appeal against the decisions and proceedings related to the
deprivation of citizenship, shall not be denied.
SOURCE: http://www.anayasa.gov.tr/images/loaded/pdf_dosyalari/THE_CONSTITUTION_OF_THE_REPUBLIC_OF_TURKEY.pdf
Everyone is a "Turk" in Turkey. The Constitution doesn't make a distinction between ethnic, tribal or religious affiliation.

Most Respectfully,
R
Thats all just window dressing, Kurds in Turkey cannot even teach Kurdish in schools and they are not treated the same as regular Turkish citizens, even though it says so on paper. If this were all true the PKK would have no problems with Turkey.
 

RoccoR

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High_Gravity, et al,

Yes, of course. That is what makes the PPK look foolish.

kirkuki; et al,

OK, I'll take the hit on that.

that is a false statement and that is what ataturk and turkey;s constitution does as well "deny 15 million kurds" , the correct statement should have been "turkey is made up of a number of ethnic cultures".
(COMMENT)

But the point is, the Kurd's are not denied representation as Turkish Citizens.

I. Turkish Citizenship ARTICLE 66. (As amended on October 17 said:
Everyone bound to the Turkish state through the bond of citizenship is a Turk.
The child of a Turkish father or a Turkish mother is a Turk.
Citizenship can be acquired under the conditions stipulated by law, and shall be forfeited
only in cases determined by law.
No Turk shall be deprived of citizenship, unless he commits an act incompatible with
loyalty to the motherland.
Recourse to the courts in appeal against the decisions and proceedings related to the
deprivation of citizenship, shall not be denied.
SOURCE: http://www.anayasa.gov.tr/images/loaded/pdf_dosyalari/THE_CONSTITUTION_OF_THE_REPUBLIC_OF_TURKEY.pdf
Everyone is a "Turk" in Turkey. The Constitution doesn't make a distinction between ethnic, tribal or religious affiliation.

Most Respectfully,
R
Thats all just window dressing, Kurds in Turkey cannot even teach Kurdish in schools and they are not treated the same as regular Turkish citizens, even though it says so on paper. If this were all true the PKK would have no problems with Turkey.
(COMMENT)

As for the language issue, that is actually something similar to what the US went through some time ago.

Under the Turkish Constitution, the primary language for ALL Turks is Turkish.

III. Integrity of the State said:
The Turkish state, with its territory and nation, is an indivisible entity. Its
language is Turkish.
While Kurdish is the principle minority language, Arabic, Laz Language, Armenian and Greek are also spoken.

Ataturk saw a need for all Turks to be bound by a common language.

While I have always had favorable dealings with the Kurds; not everyone loves the Kurds, and not every country thinks along the same lines as America. So, there will be less than perfect outcomes in countries like Turkey that have to deal with the Kurd on national security matters and the threat. The language is one of those less than perfect outcomes.

I cannot defend the Turks for the direction they have chosen to take, but it is part of their chosen destiny and the direction they have taken.

Most Respectfully,
R










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kirkuki

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not long ago a kurd was beaten by turkish police at a checkpoint because "he spoke kurdish" !!

the turkish constitution article 140 denies kurdish existences despite been 15 million in number , how is this fair !!?? why is US allowing such unfairness to occur in turkey !!! US must drop is "good kurd bad kurd" policy and see kurds in one eye, that is they deserve a nation and a recognized border of their own in the areas they cuurently hold majority which is their ancestral lands by the way , we did not ask or we were not asked after the fall of the ottoman empire to be part of iraq iran turkey and syria , we were forced against our own will and consent , this has to be reversed .

you cant force people to be something they are not , kurds are not iraqi irani turkish or syrians they are Kurdistanis , we tried been those but all we saw was 'genocide' our villages destroyed chemical gassing , Anfal Campaign etc...

Czech and Slovakian were forced to be together in the end they separated.
Germans were forced to be separated in the end they reunited.

kurds are forced into countries where they are minorities and oppressed, they have to be reunited one day and declare the "great Kurdistan".
 
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RoccoR

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kirkuki, et al,

Let me try to examine this.

not long ago a kurd was beaten by turkish police at a checkpoint because "he spoke kurdish" !!
(COMMENT)

Turkey, as is most of the Middle East, has trouble with their Law Enforcement and Border Police. Just as we, here in the US, have anecdotal incidents of adverse police confrontations, so it is in Turkey, if not a bit more. Not all countries are as restrained as the US in such matters.

the turkish constitution article 140 denies kurdish existences despite been 15 million in number , how is this fair !!?? why is US allowing such unfairness to occur in turkey !!!
(COMMENT)

I'm not sure you have the right Article of the Constitution. The Official English translation from the Government of Turkey shows Article 140 dealing with Judges. I'm having difficulty finding the Turkish Constitution directly addressing the Kurd or Kurdish issue at all. In fact, while the word "Turkish" is used 240 times in the Constitution, the words "Kurd, Kurds, Kurdish" don't appear once (that I can find). Can you be a little more specific?

ARTICLE 140. said:
Judges and public prosecutors shall serve as judges and public prosecutors of courts of justice and of administrative courts. These duties shall be carried
out by professional judges and public prosecutors.

Judges shall discharge their duties in accordance with the principles of the independence
of the courts and the security of tenure of judges.

The qualifications, appointment, rights and duties, salaries and allowances of judges and
public prosecutors, their promotion, temporary or permanent change in their duties or
posts, the initiation of disciplinary proceedings against them and the subsequent
imposition of disciplinary penalties, the conduct of investigation concerning them and the
subsequent decision to prosecute them on account of offences committed in connection
with, or in the course of, their duties, the conviction for offences or instances of
incompetence requiring their dismissal from the profession, their in-service training and
other matters relating to their personnel status shall be regulated by law in accordance
with the principles of the independence of the courts and the security of tenure of judges.
Judges and public prosecutors shall exercise their duties until they reach the age of sixtyfive; promotion according to age and the retirement of military judges shall be prescribed by law.

Judges and public prosecutors shall not assume official or public functions other than
those prescribed by law.

Judges and public prosecutors shall be attached to the Ministry of Justice where their
administrative functions are concerned.

Those judges and public prosecutors working in administrative posts within the system of
legal services shall be subject to the same provisions as other judges and public
prosecutors. Their categories and grades shall be determined according to the principles
applying to judges and public prosecutors and they shall enjoy all the rights accorded to
judges and public prosecutors.

Source: http://www.anayasa.gov.tr/images/loaded/pdf_dosyalari/THE_CONSTITUTION_OF_THE_REPUBLIC_OF_TURKEY.pdf
you cant force people to be something they are not , kurds are not iraqi irani turkish or syrians they are Kurdistanis , we tried been those but all we saw was 'genocide' our villages destroyed chemical gassing , Anfal Campaign etc...

Czech and Slovakian were forced to be together in the end they separated.
Germans were forced to be separated in the end they reunited.
(COMMENT)

There is no - one shoe fits all - solution to these issues. There are clans, tribes and groups, that assimilate --- and --- those that don't. There are various political-military actions that are recorded throughout recent history that target minorities and ethnic differences. The US has several of its own, that did not require separate political subdivision to be created. When dealing with Dictatorial and Authoritarian Governments, particularly those in the Middle East, you will find the moral and ethical considerations rendered by those powers against their citizenry differ significantly from what we consider today as benevolent. The case of the Kurds inability to regionally assimilate is not different. The Kurds now have a chance to establish a quasi-homeland with some autonomy. It is not what they might consider ideal, but it is more than they might expect.

US must drop is "good kurd bad kurd" policy and see kurds in one eye, that is they deserve a nation and a recognized border of their own in the areas they cuurently hold majority which is their ancestral lands by the way , we did not ask or we were not asked after the fall of the ottoman empire to be part of iraq iran turkey and syria , we were forced against our own will and consent , this has to be reversed .
(COMMENT)

Unfortunately, the Kurds are not all qualified for nomination into Sainthood. They all don't have clean hands. It is the case that some act neither in the best interest of the Kurdis Regional Government or the best interest in the establishment of their own autonomous region.

kurds are forced into countries where they are minorities and oppressed, they have to be reunited one day and declare the "great Kurdistan".
(COMMENT)

Or, they can assimilate. It is unlikely that other nations are going to voluntarily give-up sovereignty of their territory just to accomodate the Kurds. And any factions (the PPK included) that tries to take such sovereign territory by force will face strong opposition.

Most Respectfully,
R
 

kirkuki

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Turkey, as is most of the Middle East, has trouble with their Law Enforcement and Border Police. Just as we, here in the US, have anecdotal incidents of adverse police confrontations, so it is in Turkey, if not a bit more. Not all countries are as restrained as the US in such matters.
reality is reality , turks are known for been brutal, does the armenian genocide ring a bell !!?? 3000 kurdish villages were destroyed by turks , saddam did the same in south kurdistan.


I'm not sure you have the right Article of the Constitution. The Official English translation from the Government of Turkey shows Article 140 dealing with Judges. I'm having difficulty finding the Turkish Constitution directly addressing the Kurd or Kurdish issue at all. In fact, while the word "Turkish" is used 240 times in the Constitution, the words "Kurd, Kurds, Kurdish" don't appear once (that I can find). Can you be a little more specific?
exactly , kurds are denied their existence , ataturk use to call us "mountain turks" many racist turks still do.


It is not what they might consider ideal, but it is more than they might expect.
we will fight till we get there, there is nothing that going to stop us , you might slow us down but thats is your cheapest shot.


Unfortunately, the Kurds are not all qualified for nomination into Sainthood. They all don't have clean hands. It is the case that some act neither in the best interest of the Kurdis Regional Government or the best interest in the establishment of their own autonomous region.
it must be step by step , first autonomy then you work on getting more rights like KRG is doing and it is working well.

Or, they can assimilate.
It is unlikely that other nations are going to voluntarily give-up sovereignty of their territory just to accomodate the Kurds. And any factions (the PPK included) that tries to take such sovereign territory by force will face strong opposition.
:lol:assimilate ??? we have been fighting fascist turkish state for 80 years refusing to assimilate and your asking us in 2012, UN era and arab spring century to abandon our ethnicity and become turks ? what are you the new ataturk reborn !??? keep dreaming Mr. kurds are kurds we will fight for 1000 years to get our state and there is nothing your alikes can do to stop us :D.

we are the bravest people of ME, turks with all those US power, $ and equipment can not defeat us so forget it already and let the fight continue .

and nobody is giving us lands , we are already living on our ancestral lands which "was attached to these so called countries" after the fall of the ottoman empires WWII , they have stolen something and we will fight till we take them back , it is now theirs in the first place in order to "give it to us" please cut me the BS will ya !?
 

kirkuki

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RoccoR

here is the reply for your "kurds should assimilate themselve crap"


we will never back down until a kurdish state carved out of our occupied lands is declared if it takes 1000 years .
 
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kirkuki

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so far two parts of Kurdistan are liberated (South Kurdistan) and (Western Kurdistan) two more to go :D, eastern kurdistan will be liberated once US and Israel attack iran , so it will be poor turkey vs 3 kurdish states :D

 

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