How Liberalism Will Destroy The World

Zhukov

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Dec 21, 2003
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Everywhere, simultaneously.
How Liberalism Will Destroy The World

Some of the most fecund ideas of the 20th Century were the failed concepts of Karl Marx. It is also quite ironic that as we begin the 21st Century, after the defeat of Communism and the visible failures of Marxists countries around the world that Marxism should be more prevalent than ever before. Twelve years after the collapse and disintegration of the Soviet Union, Western Europe is more socialist than ever. In Marx’s words:

The history of all hitherto existing society is the history of class struggles

With a Marxist philosophy all actions can be explained in economic terms, i.e. rich people exploit poor people, and poor people periodically revolt against rich people. This is why an op-ed piece in the New York Times, written by leftist Thomas Friedman can make the claim that the cause of terrorism today is poverty and a lack of jobs,

In short, it is impossible for us to talk about winning the war of ideas in the Arab-Muslim world without talking about the most basic thing that gives people dignity and hope: A job.


without even bothering to acknowledge the insurmountable facts that most of the September 11th terrorist were not poor, and that the leader and founder of Al-Qaeda is not only quite wealthy, but has previously owned a very profitable construction company. A leftists, or liberal as the word is commonly used today, sees everything in economic terms. Terrorism is a result of joblessness. High crime rate and drug abuse among blacks in America is the result of poverty. Wealth should be punished, and “private property is a crime.”

The simplistic view that economics dictate human behavior is not only wrong it is dangerous. It is dangerous precisely because it assigns the wrong cause to serious problems and in so doing completely ignores their true causes which inhibits a workable solution. Trying to explain the causes of terrorism by saying “it is economics” is an attempt to ignore the problem of morals in a society, because liberals believe in moral relativism. When Ronald Reagan called the Soviet Union an ‘evil empire’ the evil the liberals saw was making the statement itself and not the brutal repression of humanity that exists beneath the heel of any communist dictatorship. To a liberal the US and the USSR were just two competing ideas of governance basically equal. Morality didn’t come into it, and therefore it was reckless and wrong for Reagan to make such a statement.

But there are differences between societies and the ideas of those societies. A civilization that advocates and perpetrates the murder of innocent people is an evil civilization. The root cause of terrorism is not economics, poverty, or jobs. It is in fact the values of those civilizations, and therefore it is the values that need to change in order to change the behavior.

But a liberal can’t make that claim. Believing such a thing would automatically disqualify them as a liberal. So Bill Clinton attempts to broker a peace between a democratically elected Prime Minister and a terrorist, because they are equals. The French, the Germans, indeed much of the UN did not support our removal of Saddam’s regime, because after all who are we to say we are right? In the eyes of the UN the USA and Saddam’s Iraq were equals. Morality didn’t come into it and neither did humanity or human rights.

So long as we as a species permit evil to exist on an equal level with good, we sow the seeds of our own destruction. When values and morality are tossed aside in favor of morally blind Marxist liberalism then the most depraved, sadistic, and evil acts become acceptable.



Another symptom of the disease that is liberalism is something many of you may have read about. That is, the elimination of the honor roll in public schools. In the mind of a liberal it is better that no ones feelings are hurt, than it is to encourage excellence and congratulate success.

What are the long-term effects of this? That should be fairly obvious. The long-term effect is the stagnation of human innovation. For a liberal it is better to have one class as opposed to a stratified education. An accelerated curriculum for brighter students, a standard curriculum for the majority of students, and a paced curriculum for those with learning difficulties is to be ignored in favor of one curriculum with no grades. What is the result of such a policy? Well naturally the slower students can’t be expected to learn faster, so everyone must progress slower in order to facilitate equality. Equality at the expense of liberty. Given the choice between Liberty and Equality, a true liberal will always choose equality.

Such a concept could only be described as nihilistically self-destructive. For the protection of a minority’s feelings we impose decay on ourselves. Truly the tyranny of the disgruntled minority.


In the name of moral relativism we feed our enemies.
In the name of equality we starve ourselves.
 
...An upper class elitist and a dilletant. He had no more idea of what workers actually did that he did of how to fly to the moon.

Your conclusion, is flawed. Provide education, employment, a secure economic model and you remove most of the incentives for terrorist activity. You remove the sources of discontent by providing the populace with a living wage and a solid education by which to better themselves.

The only yardstick by which we must judge the morality of our actions is their consequences to this life in this world. All other measures are essentially useless.
 
Incentives for terrorist activity? So an education, employment oppourtunities, and a secure economic model will destroy the infidels? Now I understand, thanks for clearing that up. Allahu Akbar.

:rolleyes:
 
One thing Marx did have right is keeping religion out of government.

Does anyone know why you have to differentiate a conservative who actually cares about other people as a "compassionate conservative"?

-Bam
 
viewing liberalism as a disease is crap, its nothing but hatespeech, its nothing but an attempt at a radical rightwing religious push for an idealization. :finger:
 
Originally posted by Bullypulpit
...An upper class elitist and a dilletant. He had no more idea of what workers actually did that he did of how to fly to the moon.

Your conclusion, is flawed. Provide education, employment, a secure economic model and you remove most of the incentives for terrorist activity. You remove the sources of discontent by providing the populace with a living wage and a solid education by which to better themselves.

The only yardstick by which we must judge the morality of our actions is their consequences to this life in this world. All other measures are essentially useless.
Please, we already provide education for free to everyone in this country. We have no conditions on employment- people are free to hire/fire at will and people are free to work/not work at will. A secure economic model is already in place...if you don't have a job you get unemployment, if you don't have insurance you get medical care free of charge, if you don't have money for housing, we have section 8 and shelters of all kinds, if you don't want your baby, the government provides orphanages and foster care, if you dont' want to work, we have welfare, foodstamps, etc.

I don't see the terrorists leaving us alone anytime soon.

As far as your views of morality go, that's why this country is so full of lazy, fat slobs who sycophant off the government and those with a decent work ethic...there are no consequences in this country to those who make poor choices.
 
Originally posted by DKSuddeth
then remove the religious part

DK exemplifies the liberal left to a 'T'. According to them if it contains moral terms such as good and evil it must be religious.

I am living proof that they are wrong. I am an adherent of no religion and I believe there is no divine being. I have complete faith in my atheism. I know it's true just as a chirstian, jew, or muslim knows there is a god. That being said, I do believe in good and evil. Being well versed in history and well aware of the depths to which humanity can sink with respect to behavior towards each other, I know evil exists, but I don't define it in religious terms.

What's more:

nothing but hatespeech

By refusing to acknowledge that moral differences that exist between different political ideologies, and insisting that these ideologies must be equal, and morally neutral, the liberal tries to limit the "Liberty" of speech to ensure the "Equality" of disparate and morally unequal philosophies.
 
As far as your views of morality go, that's why this country is so full of lazy, fat slobs who sycophant off the government and those with a decent work ethic...there are no consequences in this country to those who make poor choices.

Could not be more true !
 
By refusing to acknowledge that moral differences exist between different political ideologies, and insisting that these ideologies must be equal, and morally neutral, the liberal tries to limit the "Liberty" of speech to ensure the "Equality" of disparate and morally unequal philosophies.

where on earth did you ever get the idea that this is what I said?

you are by no means living proof that 'they' are wrong, as if you're some kind of atheistic deity, and by saying such crap is only putting yourself in the category of thinking you are right, therefore those who believe differently are wrong.
 
Originally posted by Moi
Please, we already provide education for free to everyone in this country. We have no conditions on employment- people are free to hire/fire at will and people are free to work/not work at will. A secure economic model is already in place...if you don't have a job you get unemployment, if you don't have insurance you get medical care free of charge, if you don't have money for housing, we have section 8 and shelters of all kinds, if you don't want your baby, the government provides orphanages and foster care, if you dont' want to work, we have welfare, foodstamps, etc.

I don't see the terrorists leaving us alone anytime soon.

As far as your views of morality go, that's why this country is so full of lazy, fat slobs who sycophant off the government and those with a decent work ethic...there are no consequences in this country to those who make poor choices.

Yeah, but the quality of that education is somewhat lacking these days.

Morality is based upon consequences... The consequences to this life in this world...Not in some mythical, metaphysical afterlife. With a morality based upon this latter premise, any attrocity can be justified so long as it is done in the name of ones favorite deity.

For our morals and ethics to have any real meaning, they must be measured against the consequences to this human life in this world. Then we will have a more human, and humane, ethical foundation upon which to build our morals and values.
 
Originally posted by Bullypulpit
Yeah, but the quality of that education is somewhat lacking these days.

Morality is based upon consequences... The consequences to this life in this world...Not in some mythical, metaphysical afterlife. With a morality based upon this latter premise, any attrocity can be justified so long as it is done in the name of ones favorite deity.

For our morals and ethics to have any real meaning, they must be measured against the consequences to this human life in this world. Then we will have a more human, and humane, ethical foundation upon which to build our morals and values.
Education is lacking because people aren't made to account for themselves. School violence and sloth are easy to solve. If kids don't go to class or do homework - poof - out they go. If they bring weapons to class - poof - out they go. If they conduct themselves poorly - poof - out they go. Unlike today where they are coddled and let loose on the poor students there to learn.

And consequences of which I speak are indeed real, earthly consequenses. I am not religious and do not believe in future punishments of heaven and hell. Consequences for poor behavior, stupidity and poor choices should mean starvation, homelessness and loss of life. People should suffer for doing the wrong thing TODAY. If that were the case a lot fewer people would continue to do stupid, senseless, illegal things. Morality is not an elusive, ephemeral conceptl. It's friggen concrete. You f up, you are gone from society.
 
Consequences for poor behavior, stupidity and poor choices should mean starvation, homelessness and loss of life. People should suffer for doing the wrong thing TODAY.

I'm going to assume you mean violent crimes against other people and NOT doing minor stupid things like driving without a license and small time crap like that, right?
 
Originally posted by DKSuddeth
I'm going to assume you mean violent crimes against other people and NOT doing minor stupid things like driving without a license and small time crap like that, right?


I won't answer for the person, but I would agree with that statement Dk. I don't think we should sell off peopel for little things like speeding. I just think the punishment should fit the crime.

As far as where Zuhkov and I getting our morality(I am an ignostic, which I guess means i haven't decided and for the time being don't believe in organized religion). I don't know, I guess somewhere along the lines we learned the some things are inherentlty right or wrong regardless of the context and that some asepcts of morality are not relative. They are inherent.

As far as thinking i'm right thus making others wrong, I have to ask what other way is there to see it? If I am 99.9% certain I am right and/or know I'm right, a person with the opposit view cann't also be right. Otherwise you end up w/ quite the paradox. You may say it's just one's opinion, but in some cases their opinon is wrong.
 
Originally posted by DKSuddeth
I'm going to assume you mean violent crimes against other people and NOT doing minor stupid things like driving without a license and small time crap like that, right?
I did not mean that it should be just violent crimes. The fact is that if someone gambles away their food money, they should starve. If they've bought drugs with their housing money, they should be homeless. If they overdose on heroin, they die. The consequences of these actions should be brought to fruition. Why in the world are we wasting our limited resources "rescuing" people from the consequences of their own voluntary actions???? The whole idea of morality is that people will do the right thing because they do not wish to suffer the consequences of their actions. Some of the suffering is as I described. For the religious it means having an afterlife in heaven or whatever. For those who believe in Karma it's not coming back as a bug. Whatever it takes to get people to do the right thing.

It makes no sense to me that people expect society to do the right things when society has removed every last consequence.
 
Originally posted by DKSuddeth
where on earth did you ever get the idea that this is what I said?

Because you called my original post 'hatespeech'. You assign an easy label to it, so that you can then disregard it's meaning and try to restrict it's expression.

What did you mean by:

then remove the religious part

I didn't mention religion at all, nor did I make a religious comment in my original post. I used the words 'good' and 'evil', and so I could only assume that that was what you were referring to. If not, to what were you referring?

At any rate, you ascribed motives to my original post; motives you described as 'rightwing religious.' Clearly as an atheist, I have no 'radical' christian agenda. Therefore your statement was spurious and ignorant.

As for:

putting [myself] in the category of thinking [I'm] right

Absolutely. I believe I am right, and yes, that means I believe others are wrong. I believe the actions, the way of thinking, I described in my original post are threats to the continued existence of humanity. And I've explained why I think this way. It is nihilistic, illogical, unnatural behavior.

Explain to me how I'm wrong.

Why aren't Mexicans flying planes into buildings? They're poor.
Why is UBL a terrorist? He's rich.

Maybe it has nothing to do with economics. Maybe Mexicans have different values than terrorists and these values dictate their behavior.
 
As far as thinking i'm right thus making others wrong, I have to ask what other way is there to see it? If I am 99.9% certain I am right and/or know I'm right, a person with the opposit view cann't also be right. Otherwise you end up w/ quite the paradox. You may say it's just one's opinion, but in some cases their opinon is wrong.

do we determine what is right or wrong in society by the opinion of one person? or do we determine that as a society? Theres the crux of the issue. If you, and 49/9% of the population consider your view 'right' while the other 50% consider it wrong what should we do? grab our swords and last person standing is ultimately right? bloody way to do it.

For Moi

I certainly see your point, and yes I agree, that if someone empties his bank account and pisses it away in a casino, yeah, better find a way to eat, etc. etc. etc. One of the problems that people refuse to take into consideration when looking at an issue is the 'all sides' aspect. Yes, some people will abuse it, but others could truly benefit from having the help when they deal with consequences not necessarily of their own making. Now, what do we do...deal with the abusers or punish the true victims?

For Zhukov

Because you called my original post 'hatespeech'.

when you take a persons ideology, political viewpoint, or stance on humanity and call it a disease that will destroy whatever, what do you expect it to be called? Liberalism is not a disease unless taken to the extreme, much like conservatism taken to the extreme.

As far as removing the religious part, I meant that as in mostly hearing how 'liberalism' is the source of all evil because of the un-christian like ways that the religious right thinks the ACLU and its like thinking parties are advocating. Your original post sounded just like them. To sound like them doesn't mean you have to be like them, so remove the religious part and it has your viewpoint nailed.

Therefore your statement was spurious and ignorant.

Now read it without the religion part and see if its the same, although I imagine you will still say it is because you refuse to consider your own stance anywhere near being faulty in the slightest.

Explain to me how I'm wrong.

Its called free will, If you are truly an atheist then there are some 'liberal' stances you should have no problem with. If there are then maybe you should rethink your atheism.

Why aren't Mexicans flying planes into buildings? They're poor.

Ask them.

Why is UBL a terrorist? He's rich.

Thats been explained many times over. are you in need of a refresher course?

Maybe it has nothing to do with economics. Maybe Mexicans have different values than terrorists and these values dictate their behavior.

explain street gangs in south central, or el paso, or anywhere else along the mexican border.
 

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