How is this a tax break? thanks obama

[t_samford]

Obama is giving the lower 95% a tax break while raising taxes for the other 5%. Let me ask: Who owns all of the big corporations and businesses? Its that 5% that does. If you tax that 5% then they will have to start laying off workers so the unemployed will just go up. All the people hear is: Tax break! Tax break! Tax break! Start thinking about the big picture people.
Tell me your not voting for him!

 

[dilloduck]

Obama is giving the lower 95% a tax break while raising taxes for the other 5%. Let me ask: Who owns all of the big corporations and businesses? Its that 5% that does. If you tax that 5% then they will have to start laying off workers so the unemployed will just go up. All the people hear is: Tax break! Tax break! Tax break! Start thinking about the big picture people.

Are you kidding ? Then the election might turn into something other than a trite proxy popularity contest !

 

[rayboyusmc]

If you tax that 5% then they will have to start laying off workers so the unemployed will just go up.

Total rightwing bullshit.

They would be returning to the same tax brackets that they were in under Clinton. We did pretty well then with the jobs.

Since Reagan we have screwed the middle class all over the place. Seeing as how a healthy middle class makes a healthy economy, maybe we need to return to caring about the middle class or the 95% of the frigging population that makes the companies work.

Plus not all those who have money own corporations that supply jobs.

 

[Manifesto88]

Total rightwing bullshit.

They would be returning to the same tax brackets that they were in under Clinton. We did pretty well then with the jobs.

Since Reagan we have screwed the middle class all over the place. Seeing as how a healthy middle class makes a healthy economy, maybe we need to return to caring about the middle class or the 95% of the frigging population that makes the companies work.

Plus not all those who have money own corporations that supply jobs.

The individuals will return to the tax bracket, not the companies. The companies will be getting taxed all over the place... if a company is required to give it's employees health care, there will be layoffs left and right.

Any tax increase for a company, means less jobs and money for investment.

 

[Turboswede]

The individuals will return to the tax bracket, not the companies. The companies will be getting taxed all over the place... if a company is required to give it's employees health care, there will be layoffs left and right.

Any tax increase for a company, means less jobs and money for investment.

Wait...I thought we were talking about returning the individual rates to those in effect under Clinton, who said anything about manditory health care or corporate tax rates (which are not slated to change)?

 

[DiamondDave]

Not to mention the "rebate check" all filers will get, even if they pay no fucking federal income tax... the sneaky little welfare move that Obama thinks he can sneak past... he may have the wool pulled over some people's eyes and he may have the obamabots still beating off all over themselves.. but there are still some in this country that see his wealth redistribution bullshit

 

[Ravi]

Obama is giving the lower 95% a tax break while raising taxes for the other 5%. Let me ask: Who owns all of the big corporations and businesses? Its that 5% that does. If you tax that 5% then they will have to start laying off workers so the unemployed will just go up. All the people hear is: Tax break! Tax break! Tax break! Start thinking about the big picture people.
Tell me your not voting for him!

Someone please explain to me how higher taxes reulsts in laying off employees...to avoid paying taxes all the corporations need do is have more things to write off, which would include hiring more employees.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Someone please explain to me how higher taxes reulsts in laying off employees...to avoid paying taxes all the corporations need do is have more things to write off, which would include hiring more employees.

its called fixed operating expenses.

If i need 60K per month to cover my expenses, including payroll and all the associated taxes and employee benefits, utilities , insurance etc etc tec

If a tax raise reduces my income I have 2 options

1 I raise the cost of my goods and services

2 I reduce my fixed operational expenses

But, I can only raise the costs of my goods and services so much before I start losing customers thereby reducing my income even more.

That is the tipping point where I cannot sustain my business unless I start cutting operational costs. Since payroll is the most expensive item on my budget, guess where i start cutting.

First I cut benefits; I end the 100% health insurance and make employees pay for a higher percentage of their insurance; I stop my matching contribution to their retirement accounts; i cut hours and eventually lay off.

Another monkey wrench is that if doing any of these things violates an employee's contract, i have no choice but to terminate and hire a less expensive employee

Simply hiring more and more people does not constitute a tax write off. To hire an employee you have to run the risk reward numbers and if that employee costs more than any added revenue he may potentially generate, you don't hire.

 

[Ravi]

its called fixed operating expenses.

If i need 60K per month to cover my expenses, including payroll and all the associated taxes and employee benefits, utilities , insurance etc etc tec

If a tax raise reduces my income I have 2 options

1 I raise the cost of my goods and services

2 I reduce my fixed operational expenses

But, I can only raise the costs of my goods and services so much before I start losing customers thereby reducing my income even more.

That is the tipping point where I cannot sustain my business unless I start cutting operational costs. Since payroll is the most expensive item on my budget, guess where i start cutting.

First I cut benefits; I end the 100% health insurance and make employees pay for a higher percentage of their insurance; I stop my matching contribution to their retirement accounts; i cut hours and eventually lay off.

Another monkey wrench is that if doing any of these things violates an employee's contract, i have no choice but to terminate and hire a less expensive employee

Simply hiring more and more people does not constitute a tax write off. To hire an employee you have to run the risk reward numbers and if that employee costs more than any added revenue he may potentially generate, you don't hire.

Ah, but you are talking about personal income tax, not corporate tax. But even so, I guess I just look at it differently than you do. My personal income in the end depends on how well the business does, not on my tax rate. When I get to the end of the year and have money left in my account I either decide to take it as a profit and pay taxes on it or buy some equipment or whatever to avoid paying taxes on it.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Ah, but you are talking about personal income tax, not corporate tax. But even so, I guess I just look at it differently than you do. My personal income in the end depends on how well the business does, not on my tax rate. When I get to the end of the year and have money left in my account I either decide to take it as a profit and pay taxes on it or buy some equipment or whatever to avoid paying taxes on it.

That's what every business does. but it is not a reason to just hire willy nilly.

And it depends on what kind of business you have. In an S corp business profit is claimed as personal income. In a C corp, any money not paid out in dividends or for capital expenditures is taxed at the corporate rate.

 

[Ravi]

That's what every business does. but it is not a reason to just hire willy nilly.

And it depends on what kind of business you have. In an S corp business profit is claimed as personal income. In a C corp, any money not paid out in dividends or for capital expenditures is taxed at the corporate rate.

Right, so you can avoid taxes by paying it out in dividends or capital expenditures....or employee bonuses.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Right, so you can avoid taxes by paying it out in dividends or capital expenditures....or employee bonuses.

Or if you don't want you business to be cash poor, you pay the taxes and call it an additional expense which in these times is the more prudent thing to do.

 

[Ravi]

Or if you don't want you business to be cash poor, you pay the taxes and call it an additional expense which in these times is the more prudent thing to do.

I can see that, especially with credit now being so hard to get.

But I still don't understand why people claim that raising taxes will hurt business.

 

[Skull Pilot]

I can see that, especially with credit now being so hard to get.

But I still don't understand why people claim that raising taxes will hurt business.

It can't help

 

[editec]

We gave the superrich gigantic tax breaks.

People are losing their jobs by the hundreds of thousands right now.

Time to change the gameplan.

 

[Skull Pilot]

yes ed tax cuts are causing people to lose jobs

 

[Care4all]

its called fixed operating expenses.

If i need 60K per month to cover my expenses, including payroll and all the associated taxes and employee benefits, utilities , insurance etc etc tec

If a tax raise reduces my income I have 2 options

1 I raise the cost of my goods and services

2 I reduce my fixed operational expenses

But, I can only raise the costs of my goods and services so much before I start losing customers thereby reducing my income even more.

That is the tipping point where I cannot sustain my business unless I start cutting operational costs. Since payroll is the most expensive item on my budget, guess where i start cutting.

First I cut benefits; I end the 100% health insurance and make employees pay for a higher percentage of their insurance; I stop my matching contribution to their retirement accounts; i cut hours and eventually lay off.

Another monkey wrench is that if doing any of these things violates an employee's contract, i have no choice but to terminate and hire a less expensive employee

Simply hiring more and more people does not constitute a tax write off. To hire an employee you have to run the risk reward numbers and if that employee costs more than any added revenue he may potentially generate, you don't hire.

HOW does paying $300 dollars EXTRA in taxes for every $10,000 you net in taxable income over and above a $250k make you have to now, all of a sudden, have to lay off employees?

This is the bitch, right? that a 3% hike in taxes for anything you net in taxable income over the $250k, is going to shut your business down or make you fire employees....?

$300 bucks more for Every $10,000 net above the $250k mark?

or $30 bucks more for every $1000 net?

or $3 bucks more for every $100 net over the $250k net?

if anything, it seems like this would encourage you to invest more in your company or invest more in employees or pay yourself more?

another 2 questions....

were you in business with this company back in 2000, 2001, or 2002 or 2003 before the tax cuts of Bush for your tax bracket that lowered your taxes by the 3% over the $250k net?

DID you go out and hire people when you got your tax break, or invest in your company or pocket the tax reduction and taking the extra profits for your Personal income?

 

[Care4all]

The individuals will return to the tax bracket, not the companies. The companies will be getting taxed all over the place... if a company is required to give it's employees health care, there will be layoffs left and right.

Any tax increase for a company, means less jobs and money for investment.

obama's plan IS NOT MANDATORY for health care....FYI!

 

[Skull Pilot]

HOW does paying $300 dollars EXTRA in taxes for every $10,000 you net in taxable income over and above a $250k make you have to now, all of a sudden, have to lay off employees?

This is the bitch, right? that a 3% hike in taxes for anything you net in taxable income over the $250k, is going to shut your business down or make you fire employees....?

$300 bucks more for Every $10,000 net above the $250k mark?

or $30 bucks more for every $1000 net?

or $3 bucks more for every $100 net over the $250k net?

if anything, it seems like this would encourage you to invest more in your company or invest more in employees or pay yourself more?

another 2 questions....

were you in business with this company back in 2000, 2001, or 2002 or 2003 before the tax cuts of Bush for your tax bracket that lowered your taxes by the 3% over the $250k net?

DID you go out and hire people when you got your tax break, or invest in your company or pocket the tax reduction and taking the extra profits for your Personal income?

So hostile.

we've done this before.

It's not just MY taxes that affect my business. It's the raise in taxes on all the companies that supply products, services or equipment I need to run my business. Multiply all those little increases by a couple hundred suppliers and....

If my suppliers pay more to operate, they charge me more, i have to charge more. if I get to the point where my price raises drive customers away, what should I do? reduce my offering of products and services or reduce my operating costs?

Keep in mind that the price raises i put in place are NOT to increase my profit but are just to keep my income in line with operating expenses.

So your answer to the problem is to hire more people regardless of the fact that new employees will ADD to my operating expenses thus forcing me to raise prices even more?


This is something i try to explain to friends of mine who don't run a business.

Lets say I buy product X at wholesale. i charge double what i pay and you say it's too much of a mark up. but what goes into that mark up.

OK These are some of the costs in ordering and reselling a product let's say a medication

Pay an employee to order the product

Pay for shipping

Pay for an employee to unpack and stock the products making sure that we take expired product off the shelf at the same time

keep in mind that employee pay includes all kind of state and federal taxes and fees

Pay an accountant to keep track of all those taxes and fees

Pay for all DEA and state licenses and the additional insurance required to sell drugs

Pay for an alarm system so people don't steal my drugs

Take into account some product will expire and you make no profit on that

Pay an employee to update the computer inventory

Pay to heat, cool and light the storage space

If the product needs to be refrigerated, pay for that

Pay an employee to locate dispense product for customers

Pay for the containers and labels given to customer

If the medication is administered by injection, pay for syringes and all the related costs of disposing of syringes

Pay to get the trash picked up

etc

See it's not as simple as pay a dollar for something and mark it up a little is it?

 

[editec]

its called fixed operating expenses.

If i need 60K per month to cover my expenses, including payroll and all the associated taxes and employee benefits, utilities , insurance etc etc tec

If a tax raise reduces my income I have 2 options

1 I raise the cost of my goods and services

2 I reduce my fixed operational expenses

But, I can only raise the costs of my goods and services so much before I start losing customers thereby reducing my income even more.

But the same taxes effect your competition, yes?