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That's not the same as some guy saying he doesn't to, for example, bake a cake for you because (bigoted excuse here). The only reason anyone would act on that, to leverage the law, would be to punish the guy and intimidate others from trying it. They were not harmed in any way, they just saw opportunity.
Nope!
The bigot was in the wrong. If he was in the business of baking cakes then he has to bake a cake for anyone who comes in and asks for one. Public accommodation laws don't allow for discrimination.
That's not the same as some guy saying he doesn't to, for example, bake a cake for you because (bigoted excuse here). The only reason anyone would act on that, to leverage the law, would be to punish the guy and intimidate others from trying it. They were not harmed in any way, they just saw opportunity.
Nope!
The bigot was in the wrong. If he was in the business of baking cakes then he has to bake a cake for anyone who comes in and asks for one. Public accommodation laws don't allow for discrimination.
Would he have to make a cake for NAMBLA? For neo-nazis? For the NRA? To argue from the absurd, what if the KKK wanted a cake showing them with a flaming cross hanging a black man?
What is more at stake in this issue, the baker's freedom of religion, whether you agree with his religion or not. Or the gays couple's ability to go to some other shop and have a cake made?
Why not ??Free speech is a thing of the past. And, especially since 9/11. You have to watch what you say or someone will be knocking on your door. Also, what you say on the internet is monitored by the fed. They have programs that detect certain words or phrases, which can put you on a list. No, there is no free speech.
You shouldn't have said that.
The point is, we do not have freedom of speech. What "stupid" ?It's not limited or restricted by the individual speaking. Individuals don't punish themselves for speaking out. They don't speak and then self-impose punishment for what they said.Speech is not necessarily denied. One can say anything they want to say. But, speech can be legally punished. In other words, we're free to speak, but that freedom comes with limits and restrictions. One can do what they want, but their actions carry consequences as well. It's the same with speech. It is not denied, it's limited and restricted.One can say anything they want to say. And, everyone should be held responsible for what they say. I believe in total free speech, not limited or restricted free speech.
So how about an example of free speech being denied?
If it is limited or restricted, it is done by the speaker himself, which is as it should be. If they are willing to take the natural results of their speech, they are free to say anything they want.
A little thick there aren't you? It has nothing to do with punishment. It's more a matter of a choice of whether what you want to say is worth any potential blowback you might deserve for saying it. Jeez I can hear the stupid coming through the computer.
That's not the same as some guy saying he doesn't to, for example, bake a cake for you because (bigoted excuse here). The only reason anyone would act on that, to leverage the law, would be to punish the guy and intimidate others from trying it. They were not harmed in any way, they just saw opportunity.
Nope!
The bigot was in the wrong. If he was in the business of baking cakes then he has to bake a cake for anyone who comes in and asks for one. Public accommodation laws don't allow for discrimination.
Would he have to make a cake for NAMBLA? For neo-nazis? For the NRA? To argue from the absurd, what if the KKK wanted a cake showing them with a flaming cross hanging a black man?
What is more at stake in this issue, the baker's freedom of religion, whether you agree with his religion or not. Or the gays couple's ability to go to some other shop and have a cake made?
A point that you have thus far been unable to support.The point is, we do not have freedom of speech. What "stupid" ?It's not limited or restricted by the individual speaking. Individuals don't punish themselves for speaking out. They don't speak and then self-impose punishment for what they said.Speech is not necessarily denied. One can say anything they want to say. But, speech can be legally punished. In other words, we're free to speak, but that freedom comes with limits and restrictions. One can do what they want, but their actions carry consequences as well. It's the same with speech. It is not denied, it's limited and restricted.So how about an example of free speech being denied?
If it is limited or restricted, it is done by the speaker himself, which is as it should be. If they are willing to take the natural results of their speech, they are free to say anything they want.
A little thick there aren't you? It has nothing to do with punishment. It's more a matter of a choice of whether what you want to say is worth any potential blowback you might deserve for saying it. Jeez I can hear the stupid coming through the computer.
And nothing will happen to you.Get a stars and stripes, then shout' "Death to America" whilst pissing on it, outside the white house.
That'll test your right to freedom of speech.
And nothing willGet a stars and stripes, then shout' "Death to America" whilst pissing on it, outside the white house.
That'll test your right to freedom of speech.
Because you do not know what freedom sounds like.If you post anything seen as anti Jewish, you kop one.
UN s Richard Falk under fire for anti-Semitic cartoon - International - Jerusalem Post
Rep. Ileana Ros-Lehtinen, chairwoman of the US House of Representatives’ Foreign Affairs Committee, harshly criticized Falk over the affair and said that Congress should withhold funding from the Human Rights Council until reforms are enacted.
Doesn't sound very free.
You are incorrect.I have never had my free speech rights violated. Some of the crap I read on the Internet I really have to wonder if there is any limit to free speech. So yeah, I think it is pretty free.
I also don't understand the "PC" complaint. If you are being criticized for something you said doesn't that mean you had the right to say it in the first place and those you insult have the right to respond? No matter how idiotic?
Of course they have the right to respond. Public debate and discourse is critical to a free society and may be our greatest strength.
Do you feel it's within the spirit of freedom of expression that they also leverage their freedom of expression to punish you (such as damaging or destroying your career or your business) if you say something they don't like, and/or intimidate you from expressing your opinion in the future? Is that acceptable to you?
Not to me. Debate/discourse and punishment/intimidation are two entirely different things. Those who radicalize freedom of expression to punish and intimidate are liars and cowards.
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You are incorrect.I have never had my free speech rights violated. Some of the crap I read on the Internet I really have to wonder if there is any limit to free speech. So yeah, I think it is pretty free.
I also don't understand the "PC" complaint. If you are being criticized for something you said doesn't that mean you had the right to say it in the first place and those you insult have the right to respond? No matter how idiotic?
Of course they have the right to respond. Public debate and discourse is critical to a free society and may be our greatest strength.
Do you feel it's within the spirit of freedom of expression that they also leverage their freedom of expression to punish you (such as damaging or destroying your career or your business) if you say something they don't like, and/or intimidate you from expressing your opinion in the future? Is that acceptable to you?
Not to me. Debate/discourse and punishment/intimidation are two entirely different things. Those who radicalize freedom of expression to punish and intimidate are liars and cowards.
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With the freedom of speech comes the responsibility and implications of what you say.
It would be incorrect is someone leveraged LEGAL recourse to 'destroy your business' but is not only perfectly fine for them to do so with their own speech but is actually the very heart of that freedom itself. Get out there and vocally tell everyone that you hate blacks and watch your business disappear. That is not wrong or a indication that you don't have freedom of speech - it is a direct consequence of that freedom.
It is supported by recent arrests made when someone, several people, posted comments on the internet. And, by years of monitoring calls, mail, and internet activity.A point that you have thus far been unable to support.The point is, we do not have freedom of speech. What "stupid" ?It's not limited or restricted by the individual speaking. Individuals don't punish themselves for speaking out. They don't speak and then self-impose punishment for what they said.Speech is not necessarily denied. One can say anything they want to say. But, speech can be legally punished. In other words, we're free to speak, but that freedom comes with limits and restrictions. One can do what they want, but their actions carry consequences as well. It's the same with speech. It is not denied, it's limited and restricted.
If it is limited or restricted, it is done by the speaker himself, which is as it should be. If they are willing to take the natural results of their speech, they are free to say anything they want.
A little thick there aren't you? It has nothing to do with punishment. It's more a matter of a choice of whether what you want to say is worth any potential blowback you might deserve for saying it. Jeez I can hear the stupid coming through the computer.
Care to link your claim?It is supported by recent arrests made when someone, several people, posted comments on the internet. And, by years of monitoring calls, mail, and internet activity.A point that you have thus far been unable to support.The point is, we do not have freedom of speech. What "stupid" ?It's not limited or restricted by the individual speaking. Individuals don't punish themselves for speaking out. They don't speak and then self-impose punishment for what they said.If it is limited or restricted, it is done by the speaker himself, which is as it should be. If they are willing to take the natural results of their speech, they are free to say anything they want.
A little thick there aren't you? It has nothing to do with punishment. It's more a matter of a choice of whether what you want to say is worth any potential blowback you might deserve for saying it. Jeez I can hear the stupid coming through the computer.
Check the recent events as a result of the officers gunned down in New York. The news was all over the media and internet for days. Arrests were made just because several people commented on the internet about "putting wings on p**s". Do you not watch the news or read it on the internet?Care to link your claim?It is supported by recent arrests made when someone, several people, posted comments on the internet. And, by years of monitoring calls, mail, and internet activity.A point that you have thus far been unable to support.The point is, we do not have freedom of speech. What "stupid" ?It's not limited or restricted by the individual speaking. Individuals don't punish themselves for speaking out. They don't speak and then self-impose punishment for what they said.
A little thick there aren't you? It has nothing to do with punishment. It's more a matter of a choice of whether what you want to say is worth any potential blowback you might deserve for saying it. Jeez I can hear the stupid coming through the computer.
Totally free. I can say whatever I want.How Free Is Free Speech in America?
Yes, you and anyone else can say anything they want. But, be careful of what you say. Saying certain things can put you behind bars.Totally free. I can say whatever I want.How Free Is Free Speech in America?
So it should be easy to link.Check the recent events as a result of the officers gunned down in New York. The news was all over the media and internet for days. Arrests were made just because several people commented on the internet about "putting wings on p**s". Do you not watch the news or read it on the internet?Care to link your claim?It is supported by recent arrests made when someone, several people, posted comments on the internet. And, by years of monitoring calls, mail, and internet activity.A point that you have thus far been unable to support.The point is, we do not have freedom of speech. What "stupid" ?A little thick there aren't you? It has nothing to do with punishment. It's more a matter of a choice of whether what you want to say is worth any potential blowback you might deserve for saying it. Jeez I can hear the stupid coming through the computer.
Sure, it would be easy to link. But, if you doubt that it happened, check recent events related to the gunned down cops in New York. You can start with The New York Times. Don't be lazy. If you're interested, or if you doubt what I say, check it for yourself.So it should be easy to link.Check the recent events as a result of the officers gunned down in New York. The news was all over the media and internet for days. Arrests were made just because several people commented on the internet about "putting wings on p**s". Do you not watch the news or read it on the internet?Care to link your claim?It is supported by recent arrests made when someone, several people, posted comments on the internet. And, by years of monitoring calls, mail, and internet activity.A point that you have thus far been unable to support.The point is, we do not have freedom of speech. What "stupid" ?
Cops crack down on anti-police internet threats RT USASo it should be easy to link.Check the recent events as a result of the officers gunned down in New York. The news was all over the media and internet for days. Arrests were made just because several people commented on the internet about "putting wings on p**s". Do you not watch the news or read it on the internet?Care to link your claim?It is supported by recent arrests made when someone, several people, posted comments on the internet. And, by years of monitoring calls, mail, and internet activity.A point that you have thus far been unable to support.The point is, we do not have freedom of speech. What "stupid" ?
I have never had my free speech rights violated. Some of the crap I read on the Internet I really have to wonder if there is any limit to free speech. So yeah, I think it is pretty free.
I also don't understand the "PC" complaint. If you are being criticized for something you said doesn't that mean you had the right to say it in the first place and those you insult have the right to respond? No matter how idiotic?
Of course they have the right to respond. Public debate and discourse is critical to a free society and may be our greatest strength.
Do you feel it's within the spirit of freedom of expression that they also leverage their freedom of expression to punish you (such as damaging or destroying your career or your business) if you say something they don't like, and/or intimidate you from expressing your opinion in the future? Is that acceptable to you?
Not to me. Debate/discourse and punishment/intimidation are two entirely different things. Those who radicalize freedom of expression to punish and intimidate are liars and cowards.
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What you have described IS the price of freedom of speech.
Let us use a really bad analogy, because I have little else. Say you piss off one of your clients and they start going around saying that mac is a POS who molests children and anyone who invests with mac supports pedophilia? This is so distorted and far from the truth that you know no one who knows you will take it seriously. But, you happen to notice a steep drop off in investments with you. What would you do?
That's libel, slander. That's not the same as some guy saying he doesn't to, for example, bake a cake for you because (bigoted excuse here). The only reason anyone would act on that, to leverage the law, would be to punish the guy and intimidate others from trying it. They were not harmed in any way, they just saw opportunity.
Again, there is a difference between debate/discourse and punishment/intimidation.
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the bake shop has little to do with freedom of speech, it has a lot to do with freedom of religion, you are connecting the two.
But, as you point out, speech is limited by libel and slander laws.
the truth is you can say just about anything you want about the government and there is nothing they are going to do. We see it everyday on this board. But if you wish to lie about a person, libel or slander, that gets you into trouble real fast.
Get out there and vocally tell everyone that you hate blacks and watch your business disappear.
The arrests are for threats, not speech - the two are different. If the facts of the articles are accurate then I highly doubt a single one of them will end up guilty of anything. this is more of a case of the police lashing out after being attacked (again, if the articles are accurate). That is something that is simply going to happen in a free society and not indicative of a loss of speech.Cops crack down on anti-police internet threats RT USASo it should be easy to link.Check the recent events as a result of the officers gunned down in New York. The news was all over the media and internet for days. Arrests were made just because several people commented on the internet about "putting wings on p**s". Do you not watch the news or read it on the internet?Care to link your claim?It is supported by recent arrests made when someone, several people, posted comments on the internet. And, by years of monitoring calls, mail, and internet activity.A point that you have thus far been unable to support.
