How did the Universe get here?

[PostmodernProph]

I notice that no one is saying the same thing about "God."

did someone argue God was a scientific theory?......when you claim something is a scientic theory, you have to undertake certain requirements of the scientific method...giving supporting evidence is part of that.....

Thank's, Steve.

I get it now.....you thought the girl in your signature WAS rocket science.....

 

[Boss]

I notice that no one is saying the same thing about "God."

did someone argue God was a scientific theory?......when you claim something is a scientic theory, you have to undertake certain requirements of the scientific method...giving supporting evidence is part of that.....

Thank's, Steve.

Stephen Hawking directly refutes the "cyclical universe" theory that was claimed to be "supported by science." I think it's safe to say when the leading physicist of our time disagrees with something, it is clearly NOT supported by science.

Should we assume your "Thank's (sic), Steve" comment was sarcasm, or did you just make a complete and utter fool of your misinformed self?

 

[Boss]

THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE IS PROOF OF GOD,WHAT KIND OF FOOL NEEDS MORE PROOF????====================== God shows his anger from heaven against all sinful, evil men who push away the truth from them. 19 For the truth about God is known to them instinctively; God has put this knowledge in their hearts. 20 Since earliest times men have seen the earth and sky and all God made, and have known of his existence and great eternal power. So they will have no excuse when they stand before God at Judgment Day.
21 Yes, they knew about him all right, but they wouldn’t admit it or worship him or even thank him for all his daily care. And after a while they began to think up silly ideas of what God was like and what he wanted them to do. The result was that their foolish minds became dark and confused. 22 Claiming themselves to be wise without God, they became utter fools instead.
ROMANS 1:18-22===and you???

I hate when you do this - please stop.

I hate your signature animation. Please remove it.

 

[Boss]

I take someone hasn't read about learning and behavior. There are positive and negative, punishment and reward. The human brain maintains an internal system of metering pleasure and pain that becomes associated with specific memories and generalized concept. The most basic responce is that a real external event produces a physical responce. A memory is formed that includes the physiological response. When the memory is later triggered, the brain reproduces the identical physiological response. For the greater part, there is no difference the actual event and the recollection.

There is an interesting part of the brain which is triggered while wathing someone else. Our brain mirrors the observed persons actions, firing off signal that are indistinguishable from us prforming the actions our self.

What part of the brain controls elementary spelling? And specifically, is there a problem with that part of the brain that can cause a person to misspell "response" twice in a paragraph, followed by spelling it correctly twice in the same paragraph? Also, what is "wathing" and "prforming"?

For the record, I think I need to rely on someone who's brain is functioning better to tell me about the functioning of the brain.

 

[Boss]

Where would you like to start with the proof process that all our points can be reconciled without changing our systems?

Emily, I can appreciate your efforts and I admire what you are trying to do. It's inspirational to see you are so passionate about helping us all reach consensus and harmony. However, I think you misinterpret the intentions of many in this thread and on this forum. They are not interested in reaching consensus or finding harmony. It is the furthest thing from their minds, which explains why you're getting such little response.

So I think you have to start by understanding this. Until you can convince these people to lay down their swords and stop fighting their crusades against Christ and God, you will get nowhere. And the thing about that is, the only way you will ever convince them to do this is by showing them how your approach will defeat Christ and God. Otherwise, they are just not interested.

1. I arrived at the opposite conclusion when I asked some of these same people.
Why are you more concerned about what they believe is possible? If you believe it is possible, as I do, to form consensus by aligning point, why not just prove it by demonstration?

2. My point is that as long as we forgive our differences, we can reconcile despite them.
Are you okay with that? Do you find that to be generally true and demonstratable?

3. As for "defeating Christ and God" isn't the point to "END religious abuse" of any sort?
So if by aligning our concepts, where it does not rely on converting people's beliefs,
wouldn't that achieve the goal of preventing the cause or need of any such abuses?

To the Christian believer, this satisfies what they believe in establishing one truth.
To the nontheists, this shows they do not need to be converted or changed for
truth to be established, but their approach to science is equally valid and needed for them to participate, equally as other people use their religions.

Are you okay with approaching the process this way, in order to demonstrate how consensus can be reached without "focusing on changing other people."

Do you recognize you are "focusing on changing other people" which is the reason
they object? If it is more clear you are equally focused on expanding your own perception, as you interact with others, that is not seen as anything to reject.

My impression is that you Montrovant and Derideo Teo are broader minded than that, and have more than enough potential to work through existing biases we each have.

[MENTION=36773]Boss[/MENTION] if you don't want them to underestimate you and sell you short, why underestimate them? Even if what we thought was the focus of the process ends up being something else greater, what's wrong with that, why not go with the flow and try it?

Again... I appreciate what you are trying to do. I think it's a wonderful idea and there are indeed many people from various spectrums who would be more than willing to participate in an honest discussion like this. I just don't think there are many of them here. I think you are fishing in the wrong pond.

Most of the "non-theists" in this thread are God-haters, not Atheists. A legitimate Atheist might be inclined to reason and participate in earnest with such a proposal. I know of several who would, but they are not here in this thread. I don't think I am underestimating them, I've been reading their posts for a long time, I know their agenda. They are here to denigrate, ridicule, insult and tear down human spiritualism in all it's forms. That's really all they are interested in. If your proposal provides a means to that end, they will gladly agree to participate.

You don't need to ask me "what's wrong with it" or "why not try it?" I am all on board with what you're doing and think it's a great idea. I say, prove me wrong! Organize these people in some kind of coherent group that finds universal understanding and common ground! Make the world a better place, I'm all for that! I just have a lot of skepticism because I know most of them are not interested in putting forth any kind of honest effort to resolve differences with those who believe in a God.

 

[Mad_Cabbie]

THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE IS PROOF OF GOD,WHAT KIND OF FOOL NEEDS MORE PROOF????====================== God shows his anger from heaven against all sinful, evil men who push away the truth from them. 19 For the truth about God is known to them instinctively; God has put this knowledge in their hearts. 20 Since earliest times men have seen the earth and sky and all God made, and have known of his existence and great eternal power. So they will have no excuse when they stand before God at Judgment Day.
21 Yes, they knew about him all right, but they wouldn’t admit it or worship him or even thank him for all his daily care. And after a while they began to think up silly ideas of what God was like and what he wanted them to do. The result was that their foolish minds became dark and confused. 22 Claiming themselves to be wise without God, they became utter fools instead.
ROMANS 1:18-22===and you???

I hate when you do this - please stop.

I hate your signature animation. Please remove it.

Go fish - my sig is within the guidelines - GISMYS constant spamming is not.

 

[Mad_Cabbie]

did someone argue God was a scientific theory?......when you claim something is a scientic theory, you have to undertake certain requirements of the scientific method...giving supporting evidence is part of that.....

Thank's, Steve.

I get it now.....you thought the girl in your signature WAS rocket science.....

No, you NEVER "get it."

 

[Boss]

I hate when you do this - please stop.

I hate your signature animation. Please remove it.

Go fish - my sig is within the guidelines - GISMYS constant spamming is not.

I think it's sexually obscene, offensive and degrading toward women.
I don't know that it's acceptable under forum rules.

 

[sealybobo]

YES!!! I BET YOU DO!!! satan and demons hate to see GOD'S word posted here too!!

I hate it too. You have absolutely nothing to add to the conversation. Pathetic. You are a perfect example that religion has nothing for me. If they can not convince me their ancient stories are real then I'm not going to be scared into believing a lie because if it's a lie then so is hell. And I know your stories are lies. Do you know who lies? SATAN!

People like you can't even contemplate that 11 guys made up a story 2000 years ago and the church uses that lie/story to manipulate the masses. It's all a scam. You wouldn't be so poor and stupid if it weren't for this lie. But don't worry. This is just temporary. Don't worry if your life sucks now because when you die you'll go to heaven.

Don't worry about your crappy life on earth because gods got something for you on the other side. **** that. I want a good life now. That's like the City of Detroit promising pensions and then they go bankrupt and the employees get no pension. **** your fake promise of the future. I'm living in heaven/paradise on earth right now. You live in squaller and wait for paradise.

In heaven, can I **** more than one woman the rest of eternity?

I LIVE MY LIFE AS A HAPPY,BLESSED son of ALMIGHTY GOD IT DOES not get any better!!! i LIVE IN GOD'S BLESSINGS protection health,wealth,wonderful family, pretty wife and no debts of any kind!!ALL BLESSINGS AND GIFTS FROM GOD!!!PTL.

Yes they say ignorance is bliss. I too am blessed. Why I don't know but I have been blessed no doubt about it. But to say it's because of a god is stupid. What about all the people who believed but had horrible lives? Believing in god doesn't make your life turn out more blessed than other people. It may in that it has provided you with a community of friends who without the church you would have never met. I get that. It's one of the attractions to religion. Us Atheists/Scientist thinkers understand all the motivations you have for being superstitious.

And it does get better.

When I became convinced that the universe was natural, that all the ghosts and gods were myths, there entered into my brain, into my soul, into every drop of my blood, the sense, the feeling, the joy of freedom. The walls of my prison crumbled and fell. The dungeon was flooded with light and all the bolts and bars and manacles turned to dust. I was no longer a servant, a serf, or a slave. There was for me no master in all the wide world, not even in infinite space.

I was free to think. Free to express my thoughts, free to live in my own ideal. Free to live for myself and those I loved. Free to use all my faculties, all my senses. Free to spread imagination’s wings, free to investigate, to guess, and dream and hope. Free to judge and determine for myself. Free to reject all ignorant and cruel creeds, all the inspired books that savages have produced, and the barbarous legends of the past. Free from sanctified mistakes and “holy” lies. Free from the fear of eternal pain, free from the winged monsters of the night. Free from devils, ghosts and gods. For the first time I was free.

There were no prohibited places in all of the realm of thought. No error, no space where fancy could not spread her painted wings. No chains for my limbs. No lashes for my back. No flames for my flesh. No Master’s frown or threat, no following in another’s steps. No need to bow or cringe or crawl, or utter lying words. I was free; I stood erect and fearlessly, joyously faced all worlds.

My heart was filled with gratitude, with thankfulness, and went out in love to all the heros, the thinkers who gave their lives for liberty of hand and brain, for the freedom of labor and thought to those who fell on the fierce fields of war. To those who died in dungeons, bound in chains, to those by fire consumed, to all the wise, the good, the brave of every land whose thoughts and deeds have given freedom to the sons of men. And then, I vowed to grasp the torch that they held, and hold it high, That light might conquer darkness still.

-Robert Green Ingersoll (1833-1899)

 

[sealybobo]

Other animals besides humans have conscienceness and therefore they too have a conscience. A conscience is an emotion that we feel when we have done something wrong. There is no evidence of any connection to your imaginary God involved since people who don't believe in your imaginary God also feel bad when they do something wrong.

Woop there it is. Now they'll tell us we really deep down do believe but it is Satan that makes us deny god. But then they would have to believe the Adam & Eve, Noah, Moses stories too and 7 out of 10 christians know those are just stories. How long until they put 2 and 2 together and realize the jesus story is just a story too?

I don't think Satan makes you deny God.....I simply think you're one of those who only needs Satan to dangle a cheese curl in front of you and you jump at the chance to deny God....what else could explain the things that no rational person would believe, yet you've repeated them in post after post......

Such as? List the irrational things I believe so we can discuss them.

Oh, and “I would love to believe that when I die I will live again, that some thinking, feeling, remembering part of me will continue. But much as I want to believe that, and despite the ancient and worldwide cultural traditions that assert an afterlife, I know of nothing to suggest that it is more than wishful thinking. The world is so exquisite with so much love and moral depth, that there is no reason to deceive ourselves with pretty stories for which there’s little good evidence. Far better it seems to me, in our vulnerability, is to look death in the eye and to be grateful every day for the brief but magnificent opportunity that life provides.” – Carl Sagan

 

[sealybobo]

Emily, I can appreciate your efforts and I admire what you are trying to do. It's inspirational to see you are so passionate about helping us all reach consensus and harmony. However, I think you misinterpret the intentions of many in this thread and on this forum. They are not interested in reaching consensus or finding harmony. It is the furthest thing from their minds, which explains why you're getting such little response.

So I think you have to start by understanding this. Until you can convince these people to lay down their swords and stop fighting their crusades against Christ and God, you will get nowhere. And the thing about that is, the only way you will ever convince them to do this is by showing them how your approach will defeat Christ and God. Otherwise, they are just not interested.

1. I arrived at the opposite conclusion when I asked some of these same people.
Why are you more concerned about what they believe is possible? If you believe it is possible, as I do, to form consensus by aligning point, why not just prove it by demonstration?

2. My point is that as long as we forgive our differences, we can reconcile despite them.
Are you okay with that? Do you find that to be generally true and demonstratable?

3. As for "defeating Christ and God" isn't the point to "END religious abuse" of any sort?
So if by aligning our concepts, where it does not rely on converting people's beliefs,
wouldn't that achieve the goal of preventing the cause or need of any such abuses?

To the Christian believer, this satisfies what they believe in establishing one truth.
To the nontheists, this shows they do not need to be converted or changed for
truth to be established, but their approach to science is equally valid and needed for them to participate, equally as other people use their religions.

Are you okay with approaching the process this way, in order to demonstrate how consensus can be reached without "focusing on changing other people."

Do you recognize you are "focusing on changing other people" which is the reason
they object? If it is more clear you are equally focused on expanding your own perception, as you interact with others, that is not seen as anything to reject.

My impression is that you Montrovant and Derideo Teo are broader minded than that, and have more than enough potential to work through existing biases we each have.

[MENTION=36773]Boss[/MENTION] if you don't want them to underestimate you and sell you short, why underestimate them? Even if what we thought was the focus of the process ends up being something else greater, what's wrong with that, why not go with the flow and try it?

Again... I appreciate what you are trying to do. I think it's a wonderful idea and there are indeed many people from various spectrums who would be more than willing to participate in an honest discussion like this. I just don't think there are many of them here. I think you are fishing in the wrong pond.

Most of the "non-theists" in this thread are God-haters, not Atheists. A legitimate Atheist might be inclined to reason and participate in earnest with such a proposal. I know of several who would, but they are not here in this thread. I don't think I am underestimating them, I've been reading their posts for a long time, I know their agenda. They are here to denigrate, ridicule, insult and tear down human spiritualism in all it's forms. That's really all they are interested in. If your proposal provides a means to that end, they will gladly agree to participate.

You don't need to ask me "what's wrong with it" or "why not try it?" I am all on board with what you're doing and think it's a great idea. I say, prove me wrong! Organize these people in some kind of coherent group that finds universal understanding and common ground! Make the world a better place, I'm all for that! I just have a lot of skepticism because I know most of them are not interested in putting forth any kind of honest effort to resolve differences with those who believe in a God.

See, here you go again you old asshole. If this is what you think, you are the problem not us. It isn't the god haters that are the problem, it's you. We don't hate god or you. It is you who hate and/or are afraid of us. Remember ****, it isn't us saying if you don't believe what we believe then you go to eternal hell. Maybe you aren't saying that, but you are one of them CLEARLY in your thinking. Even though Gismys thinks you're going to hell to stupid, you keep siding with her, ******* retards.

This is what I hate about conservatives like you. You seem nice but deep down you think we are socialist communist dirty atheist hippies who want to ruin your america.

Most atheists TRY to have reasonable debate but then your side says stupid shit. You take what we are saying personal. Don't. Yes we mock/make fun of you guys. It's the only way to get the point across. We need to mock the ones who take the bible literally and we need to mock guys like you who despite all the logic and facts still argues that there is an equally probably outcome that god does exist when the fact is 99.999% there is no god. I'll give you less than 1%.

I don't even want to debate with you on why I think there is no god and you think there is. I totally get your position and you aren't going to change. Hey boss, I just farted. You can't see it or touch it so it's not physical, right? Is that god?

So your reply here only exposed yourself for being what you hate. Is it degrading us when you say we aren't open to honest debate? And who are the atheists you like? Do they not tell you they think you are stupid? Guess what? They are thinking it. And no, you aren't going to youtube an atheist who is as blunt as we are because they are trying to be respecful. But if you watch enough of them you'll hear all the same things I'm cutting and pasting from Why there is no god

This site doesn't hate you. It just lays out all the things theists say to atheists and how to reply. I wish your side had whythereisagod.com site I could go to but their isn't. You have to read 100 different versions of the bible to understand your side, which means your side is un understandable. But if you read all 100 books from king james to duderonamy to ezekele to romans to luke OMG I'm going to puke.

 

[sealybobo]

YES!!! THE muslim god is just one of thousands of false gods,THERE IS ONLY ONE TRUE GOD ALMIGHTY!!! SEEK TO KNOW HIM!!!

That's what they all say.

 

[Boss]

Irrational thing #1: That chemicals and elements somehow defied biogenesis and originated life.

Irrational thing #2: That all life evolved from a single cell organism.

Irrational thing #3: That science has any evidence that God does not exist.

 

[sealybobo]

Irrational thing #1: That chemicals and elements somehow defied biogenesis and originated life.

Irrational thing #2: That all life evolved from a single cell organism.

Irrational thing #3: That science has any evidence that God does not exist.

Believers claim the victim and imply that non-theists gang up on them, or rally against them. No, atheists just look at believers the same way they might look at someone who claims the Earth is flat, or that the Earth is the centre of the universe: delusional.

The bar theists set for perceived atheist hostility appears to be anyone simply voicing a dissenting opinion or mentioning an inclination towards non-belief. Claiming ‘persecution’ is simply a deflection for theists who are unwilling or unable to deal with open criticism.

 

[Boss]

I wish your side had whythereisagod.com site I could go to but their isn't.

Well, I don't have a "side" because I am a rogue spiritualist, remember?

Still... I did find this and had to lol...

http://whythereisagod.blogspot.com/

 

[sealybobo]

Irrational thing #1: That chemicals and elements somehow defied biogenesis and originated life.

Irrational thing #2: That all life evolved from a single cell organism.

Irrational thing #3: That science has any evidence that God does not exist.

All life on Earth evolved from a single-celled organism that lived roughly 3.5 billion years ago, a new study seems to confirm.


The study supports the widely held "universal common ancestor" theory first proposed by Charles Darwin more than 150 years ago.

And Science does not have "evidence" god doesn't exist. I've told you a million times, it isn't our responsibility to prove to you your invisible friend isn't real and if you look at all the facts rationally and logically there is a very slim chance "god" as you guys call it/him exists.

Now YOU have completely re defined what god is. We don't even know what you believe to be honest. Did this thing create the universe? Did he intelligently and purposely create human's and all the other animals? Did he do the Noah flood? Is there a heaven? You have COMPLETELY cherry picked what you do and don't believe.

And to be honest boss, all you have is wild speculation. Here is your proof god exists.

1. We made it up when we were barely smarter than monkey's 100.000 years ago.
2. You have a mind that can think spiritually. Not a physical brain but a non physical mind and soul.

That is all you have.

So you are a look into the future. When retarded christians and muslims no longer exist, we're still going to be debating assholes like you for another 1000 years because every time we debunk one god, you guys just keep moving the goal post. And since there is no way to disprove your little ******* fairytale, I guess you win.

Congrats. We believe! Start a new church and see who shows up.

 

[sealybobo]

I wish your side had whythereisagod.com site I could go to but their isn't.

Well, I don't have a "side" because I am a rogue spiritualist, remember?

Still... I did find this and had to lol...

Reasons God Exists

Hey, remember when I lash out it's just out of frustration.

The other day after arguing with gay haters about how IT TAKES ONE MAN AND ONE WOMAN to make a person and then it dawned on me. Are you guys out of your minds to think that there is just one god alone by himself? Don't you think god would have a wife? Even god said it isn't natural to be alone. I think in the new religion you religious people are clearly going to form after the christianity, jew and muslim religions die (just like the 999 others did that came before) I think the new religion you invent should have 2 gods a mother and father.

 

[Boss]

Irrational thing #1: That chemicals and elements somehow defied biogenesis and originated life.

Irrational thing #2: That all life evolved from a single cell organism.

Irrational thing #3: That science has any evidence that God does not exist.

Believers claim the victim and imply that non-theists gang up on them, or rally against them. No, atheists just look at believers the same way they might look at someone who claims the Earth is flat, or that the Earth is the centre of the universe: delusional.

The bar theists set for perceived atheist hostility appears to be anyone simply voicing a dissenting opinion or mentioning an inclination towards non-belief. Claiming ‘persecution’ is simply a deflection for theists who are unwilling or unable to deal with open criticism.

Woah, take it easy there dicklips, I was just answering your question about what irrational things you believe in. No need to blow a gasket. BTW.. I take offense to being called a "theist" when I am certainly NOT one. I do not have a theistic view of God, I believe God is greater than any man-made theistic incarnation. So call me a spiritualist, not a theist!

 

[sealybobo]

I wish your side had whythereisagod.com site I could go to but their isn't.

Well, I don't have a "side" because I am a rogue spiritualist, remember?

Still... I did find this and had to lol...

Reasons God Exists

That site needs a lot of work. It doesn't hold a candle to whynogod.com

Yes, I know you are a rogue spiritualist. You are because all the organized religions are lies and you know it. So, you just moved the goal post to a place where it is impossible for us to score a touchdown like we have against the muslims, christians & jews and mormons. We know 100% those are lies not real. Right? Even you know those can't possibly be true/real. They made all that shit up about god. That's why you aren't a member of any of them. So you agree with me on that at least.

And so you don't even have a story. All you have are hunches and theories. At least those fake religions claim he visited in the past. Yet despite all the lies, your unevolved brain still can't wrap your brain around the idea that there might not be a god. You can speculate and debate it all you want. If you took your evidence to the bookies in Vegas they'd give you less than 100 to 1 odds. Based on the evidence you have of course. Now maybe if some new evidence were to come around, maybe that would better your odds but based on what you are telling us, no. So please

 

[sealybobo]

Irrational thing #1: That chemicals and elements somehow defied biogenesis and originated life.

Irrational thing #2: That all life evolved from a single cell organism.

Irrational thing #3: That science has any evidence that God does not exist.

Believers claim the victim and imply that non-theists gang up on them, or rally against them. No, atheists just look at believers the same way they might look at someone who claims the Earth is flat, or that the Earth is the centre of the universe: delusional.

The bar theists set for perceived atheist hostility appears to be anyone simply voicing a dissenting opinion or mentioning an inclination towards non-belief. Claiming ‘persecution’ is simply a deflection for theists who are unwilling or unable to deal with open criticism.

Woah, take it easy there dicklips, I was just answering your question about what irrational things you believe in. No need to blow a gasket. BTW.. I take offense to being called a "theist" when I am certainly NOT one. I do not have a theistic view of God, I believe God is greater than any man-made theistic incarnation. So call me a spiritualist, not a theist!

Do you believe in hell? Why?

And, so Gismys sees, do you denounce Christ?