How deep is the "deep state"?

[HappyJoy]

No, actually I go to primary sources. Books, investigative journalists, that sort of thing.

Did you bother watching that video by Peter Dale Scott and David Talbot I posted earlier in the thread? You should follow their FB content. . . . interesting men.

Peter Dale Scott - Wikipedia

David Talbot - Wikipedia

What journalists do you consider to be 'primary' sources? And what is their views on fluoride in the water?

On the issue of fluoride in the water, I go directly to a former head of the EPA union, Dr. J William Hirzy.

You can hear from him yourself in a congressional hearing if you like. . .



I have the study about sodium-fluoride causing ADHD in rats if you like;
Neurotoxicity of sodium fluoride in rats. - PubMed - NCBI

You obviously missed the point. Is there a conspiracy or purpose behind the government putting fluoride in the water other than to prevent tooth decay?

I guess I don't get an answer to my question. Not surprised.

See the post right above yours.

The answer is, no.

There are never any "conspiracies," just bureaucratic policies with powerful interest behind them that the public doesn't understand the purpose for.

You're running away from who you are. I get it, you don't want to be called a conspiracy theorists. However government colluding with industry to get rid of toxic chemicals through our drinking water is called a what?

What's next? Your almond farmers are killing you with cyanide?

 

[MisterBeale]

No, actually I go to primary sources. Books, investigative journalists, that sort of thing.

Did you bother watching that video by Peter Dale Scott and David Talbot I posted earlier in the thread? You should follow their FB content. . . . interesting men.

Peter Dale Scott - Wikipedia

David Talbot - Wikipedia

What journalists do you consider to be 'primary' sources? And what is their views on fluoride in the water?

On the issue of fluoride in the water, I go directly to a former head of the EPA union, Dr. J William Hirzy.

You can hear from him yourself in a congressional hearing if you like. . .



I have the study about sodium-fluoride causing ADHD in rats if you like;
Neurotoxicity of sodium fluoride in rats. - PubMed - NCBI

You obviously missed the point. Is there a conspiracy or purpose behind the government putting fluoride in the water other than to prevent tooth decay?

Wow, no, that has absolutely nothing to do with this.


It has to do with interest group politics, and the complex idiocy of the bueracracy. It the same thing going on with the military-industrial-intelligence-banking complex right now that has corrupted the government. Different powerful folks with different powerful interests. There is no formal, "conspiracy." Get that out of your head.



There is no conspiracy. It is all about iron triangles in Washington D.C.

They needed to get rid of toxic waste, and industry lobbying groups thought this was a good way to do it.

Likewise, YES, fluoride, as a topical application, it IS effective at preventing dental carries.

I ought to know, my mother was a Dental Hygenist, and I practically grew up with a Dentist in the family.

OTH, YOU ARE A FOOL if you think you need to ingest fluoride. Try reading the warnings on the back of your toothpaste sometime. Did you know that the amount of fluoride that you put on your toothbrush is contained in about two or three glasses of municipally treated water?

Anyone that uses a toothpaste w/o fluoride is probably a fool. But when you are done brushing, spit that shit out, for gods sake, don't swallow, it is poison. This is also a reason why you should always buy organic, use food that has used non-fluoridated water for it's production. You would be shocked at how much of your food and pharmaceuticals have been adulterated with this chemical because of this interest group and it's need to dispose of this chemical. It's not a conspiracy, it's just interest group politics.

So, there is no conspiracy yet you just stated a conspiracy. Great job.

So I guess when we were at Uni, they were essentially instructing us on how conspiracies worked?

The Bureaucracy: The Real Government [ushistory.org]


"According to the theory, agencies and departments usually keep close contacts with interest group lobbyists who want to influence their actions. Interest groups may provide valuable statistics to government agencies, and they are motivated to have their point of view heard. Both lobbyists and bureaucrats value contact with congressional subcommittees that shape the laws that govern their interests. Working together, these three groups set most government policies.


An example of such an iron triangle would be the American Association for Retired People (AARP), the House Subcommittee on Aging, and the Social Security Administration all working together to set government policy on Social Security.


Advisers, bookkeepers, secretaries. So, it is not only the famous people — the President, the Chief of Staff, the Speaker of the House, or the Senate Majority Leader — who make the real decisions in government. Often, the real players in government are the agency bureaucrats — the people behind the scenes."

Note, this is an example of an Iron Triangle with a Public Interest group. Now imagine how hard it is to locate the nexus of power for a non-public interest group.

 

[MisterBeale]

What journalists do you consider to be 'primary' sources? And what is their views on fluoride in the water?

On the issue of fluoride in the water, I go directly to a former head of the EPA union, Dr. J William Hirzy.

You can hear from him yourself in a congressional hearing if you like. . .



I have the study about sodium-fluoride causing ADHD in rats if you like;
Neurotoxicity of sodium fluoride in rats. - PubMed - NCBI

You obviously missed the point. Is there a conspiracy or purpose behind the government putting fluoride in the water other than to prevent tooth decay?

I guess I don't get an answer to my question. Not surprised.

See the post right above yours.

The answer is, no.

There are never any "conspiracies," just bureaucratic policies with powerful interest behind them that the public doesn't understand the purpose for.

You're running away from who you are. I get it, you don't want to be called a conspiracy theorists. However government colluding with industry to get rid of toxic chemicals through our drinking water is called a what?

What's next? Your almond farmers are killing you with cyanide?

I'm not running away from who I am, I was trained in political scientist.

What we have here is a person in a case of severe denial.

I'm sorry your cognitive dissonance won't allow you to embrace the reality of the world you live in that you need to attack the messenger rather than the message.

Good bye.

 

[HappyJoy]

On the issue of fluoride in the water, I go directly to a former head of the EPA union, Dr. J William Hirzy.

You can hear from him yourself in a congressional hearing if you like. . .



I have the study about sodium-fluoride causing ADHD in rats if you like;
Neurotoxicity of sodium fluoride in rats. - PubMed - NCBI

You obviously missed the point. Is there a conspiracy or purpose behind the government putting fluoride in the water other than to prevent tooth decay?

I guess I don't get an answer to my question. Not surprised.

See the post right above yours.

The answer is, no.

There are never any "conspiracies," just bureaucratic policies with powerful interest behind them that the public doesn't understand the purpose for.

You're running away from who you are. I get it, you don't want to be called a conspiracy theorists. However government colluding with industry to get rid of toxic chemicals through our drinking water is called a what?

What's next? Your almond farmers are killing you with cyanide?

I'm not running away from who I am, I was trained in political scientist.

What we have here is a person in a case of severe denial.

I'm sorry your cognitive dissonance won't allow you to embrace the reality of the world you live in that you need to attack the messenger rather than the message.

Good bye.

I'm sorry you're nothing but a self-loathing conspiracy theorist. Actually, I'm not, i really don't care.

 

[sartre play]

Deep state, two more buzz words signifying nothing.

 

[sartre play]

Beef steak something you eat.

 

[hjmick]

How deep? Like Linda Lovelace deep...

 

[candycorn]

I recently had the opportunity to meet with an officer in the US military and was disappointed in the "globalist" point of view. In spite of President Trump's respect for the military and efforts to improve their lives, this officer had a point of view that was hard to understand given the intelligence and position of the officer.

It represented to me a sad state of the "deep state" i.e. people in power like this officer who seemed to forget that especially as a military officer being "apolitical" means not allowing personal preferences to affect their job.

But this officer's position is one that does influence congresspeople among others and what he shared in this meeting was frankly very disheartening as his political/globalist attitude doesn't help.

A couple examples from our conversation as to why I deemed him a "globalist" and frankly not representative of most Americans.

I will be happy to share if others wish as I don't want to bore people with a long missive at this point.
Suffice to say the couple of examples of his opinion was surprising at least to me as he comes from multi-generational American midwestern family.

The deep state certainly exists ! The powerfull and the privleged have always existed and always will. Under free market money means more power! This is a limit of this system one that will never fully go away! Saying it serves progressive master is pretty laughable. Please understand that the deep state holds the power and has no wish for change. Why would they they already hold the cards!

There is nothing conspiratorial about the deep state. It simply manifests itself in the idea that extremely wealthy and powerfull interests have an inordinate amount of influence over our government.

New World Order!

Problem is with new world orders is that they are tyically the same as the old one, they are just packaged different!

Problem with Deep States is they are bullshit made up by paranoid assholes

Except for my "Deep Dark State"; that is real.

 

[Tehon]

Yes, there is another government concealed behind the one that is visible at either end of Pennsylvania Avenue, a hybrid entity of public and private institutions ruling the country according to consistent patterns in season and out, connected to, but only intermittently controlled by, the visible state whose leaders we choose. My analysis of this phenomenon is not an exposé of a secret, conspiratorial cabal; the state within a state is hiding mostly in plain sight, and its operators mainly act in the light of day. Nor can this other government be accurately termed an “establishment.” All complex societies have an establishment, a social network committed to its own enrichment and perpetuation. In terms of its scope, financial resources and sheer global reach, the American hybrid state, the Deep State, is in a class by itself. That said, it is neither omniscient nor invincible. The institution is not so much sinister (although it has highly sinister aspects) as it is relentlessly well entrenched. Far from being invincible, its failures, such as those in Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya, are routine enough that it is only the Deep State’s protectiveness towards its higher-ranking personnel that allows them to escape the consequences of their frequent ineptitude.
Essay: Anatomy of the Deep State -

^ This is exactly how our government functions and is exactly why Obama articulated the desire to bring transparency to government.

 

[rightwinger]

Yes, there is another government concealed behind the one that is visible at either end of Pennsylvania Avenue, a hybrid entity of public and private institutions ruling the country according to consistent patterns in season and out, connected to, but only intermittently controlled by, the visible state whose leaders we choose. My analysis of this phenomenon is not an exposé of a secret, conspiratorial cabal; the state within a state is hiding mostly in plain sight, and its operators mainly act in the light of day. Nor can this other government be accurately termed an “establishment.” All complex societies have an establishment, a social network committed to its own enrichment and perpetuation. In terms of its scope, financial resources and sheer global reach, the American hybrid state, the Deep State, is in a class by itself. That said, it is neither omniscient nor invincible. The institution is not so much sinister (although it has highly sinister aspects) as it is relentlessly well entrenched. Far from being invincible, its failures, such as those in Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya, are routine enough that it is only the Deep State’s protectiveness towards its higher-ranking personnel that allows them to escape the consequences of their frequent ineptitude.
Essay: Anatomy of the Deep State -

^ This is exactly how our government functions and is exactly why Obama articulated the desire to bring transparency to government.

Super secret state run by Hillary

 

[Tehon]

Yes, there is another government concealed behind the one that is visible at either end of Pennsylvania Avenue, a hybrid entity of public and private institutions ruling the country according to consistent patterns in season and out, connected to, but only intermittently controlled by, the visible state whose leaders we choose. My analysis of this phenomenon is not an exposé of a secret, conspiratorial cabal; the state within a state is hiding mostly in plain sight, and its operators mainly act in the light of day. Nor can this other government be accurately termed an “establishment.” All complex societies have an establishment, a social network committed to its own enrichment and perpetuation. In terms of its scope, financial resources and sheer global reach, the American hybrid state, the Deep State, is in a class by itself. That said, it is neither omniscient nor invincible. The institution is not so much sinister (although it has highly sinister aspects) as it is relentlessly well entrenched. Far from being invincible, its failures, such as those in Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya, are routine enough that it is only the Deep State’s protectiveness towards its higher-ranking personnel that allows them to escape the consequences of their frequent ineptitude.
Essay: Anatomy of the Deep State -

^ This is exactly how our government functions and is exactly why Obama articulated the desire to bring transparency to government.

Super secret state run by Hillary

Only in her wildest dreams.

 

[Tehon]

This is your real government; they transcend elected administrations, they permeate every political party, and they are responsible for nearly every aspect of the average American and European's way of life. When the "left" is carrying the torch for two "Neo-Con" wars, starting yet another based on the same lies, peddled by the same media outlets that told of Iraqi WMD's, the world has no choice, beyond profound cognitive dissonance, but to realize something is wrong.

What's wrong is a system completely controlled by a corporate-financier oligarchy with financial, media, and industrial empires that span the globe. If we do not change the fact that we are helplessly dependent on these corporations that regulate every aspect of our nation politically, and every aspect of our lives personally, nothing else will ever change.

Land Destroyer: Naming Names: Your Real Government

 

[Dan Stubbs]

I recently had the opportunity to meet with an officer in the US military and was disappointed in the "globalist" point of view. In spite of President Trump's respect for the military and efforts to improve their lives, this officer had a point of view that was hard to understand given the intelligence and position of the officer.

It represented to me a sad state of the "deep state" i.e. people in power like this officer who seemed to forget that especially as a military officer being "apolitical" means not allowing personal preferences to affect their job.

But this officer's position is one that does influence congresspeople among others and what he shared in this meeting was frankly very disheartening as his political/globalist attitude doesn't help.

A couple examples from our conversation as to why I deemed him a "globalist" and frankly not representative of most Americans.

I will be happy to share if others wish as I don't want to bore people with a long missive at this point.
Suffice to say the couple of examples of his opinion was surprising at least to me as he comes from multi-generational American midwestern family.

 

[busybee01]

I recently had the opportunity to meet with an officer in the US military and was disappointed in the "globalist" point of view. In spite of President Trump's respect for the military and efforts to improve their lives, this officer had a point of view that was hard to understand given the intelligence and position of the officer.

It represented to me a sad state of the "deep state" i.e. people in power like this officer who seemed to forget that especially as a military officer being "apolitical" means not allowing personal preferences to affect their job.

But this officer's position is one that does influence congresspeople among others and what he shared in this meeting was frankly very disheartening as his political/globalist attitude doesn't help.

A couple examples from our conversation as to why I deemed him a "globalist" and frankly not representative of most Americans.

I will be happy to share if others wish as I don't want to bore people with a long missive at this point.
Suffice to say the couple of examples of his opinion was surprising at least to me as he comes from multi-generational American midwestern family.

He has a right to a opinion. Military personnel are not required to be apolitical. Trump has no respect for the military,. They are political pawns and no more.

 

[busybee01]

I recently had the opportunity to meet with an officer in the US military and was disappointed in the "globalist" point of view. In spite of President Trump's respect for the military and efforts to improve their lives, this officer had a point of view that was hard to understand given the intelligence and position of the officer.

It represented to me a sad state of the "deep state" i.e. people in power like this officer who seemed to forget that especially as a military officer being "apolitical" means not allowing personal preferences to affect their job.

But this officer's position is one that does influence congresspeople among others and what he shared in this meeting was frankly very disheartening as his political/globalist attitude doesn't help.

A couple examples from our conversation as to why I deemed him a "globalist" and frankly not representative of most Americans.

I will be happy to share if others wish as I don't want to bore people with a long missive at this point.
Suffice to say the couple of examples of his opinion was surprising at least to me as he comes from multi-generational American midwestern family.

Because the DS is working in favor of the Left and Progressives at this time, they can joke about it and poke fun.
There truly IS a DS and it's as you say, many regular people who are more than willing to use their position to enhance their agendas with little or no regard to what's best for the nation as a whole.

Gone are the days when you could count on (most) elected officials to work on behalf of the Constitution and We The People.

A VERY sad state indeed. Too many Americans are content just to sit back and watch all this happen. Our political leaders are under enormous pressure from within to comply or be cast as bigots / racists etc. I see the only last hope to recover America as being squarely in the hands of the American People themselves.

So far, it seems like a lost cause. All that was required for America to fall was for Good Men to remain silent.

There is no deep state. It is nothing but a crazy conspiracy theory. The far right has a very warped view of the Constitution and say Screw The People.

 

[dudmuck]

I recently had the opportunity to meet with an officer in the US military and was disappointed in the "globalist" point of view. In spite of President Trump's respect for the military and efforts to improve their lives, this officer had a point of view that was hard to understand given the intelligence and position of the officer.

It represented to me a sad state of the "deep state" i.e. people in power like this officer who seemed to forget that especially as a military officer being "apolitical" means not allowing personal preferences to affect their job.

But this officer's position is one that does influence congresspeople among others and what he shared in this meeting was frankly very disheartening as his political/globalist attitude doesn't help.

A couple examples from our conversation as to why I deemed him a "globalist" and frankly not representative of most Americans.

I will be happy to share if others wish as I don't want to bore people with a long missive at this point.
Suffice to say the couple of examples of his opinion was surprising at least to me as he comes from multi-generational American midwestern family.

Because the DS is working in favor of the Left and Progressives at this time, they can joke about it and poke fun.
There truly IS a DS and it's as you say, many regular people who are more than willing to use their position to enhance their agendas with little or no regard to what's best for the nation as a whole.

Gone are the days when you could count on (most) elected officials to work on behalf of the Constitution and We The People.

A VERY sad state indeed. Too many Americans are content just to sit back and watch all this happen. Our political leaders are under enormous pressure from within to comply or be cast as bigots / racists etc. I see the only last hope to recover America as being squarely in the hands of the American People themselves.

So far, it seems like a lost cause. All that was required for America to fall was for Good Men to remain silent.

There is no deep state. It is nothing but a crazy conspiracy theory. The far right has a very warped view of the Constitution and say Screw The People.

There is a deep state. Edward Snowed gives a good definition: "it is really a way of referring to the career bureaucracy of government. These are officials who sit in powerful positions, who don't leave when presidents do, who watch presidents come and go...they influence policy, they influence presidents"

The deep state prevented Obama from closing Gitmo.
Trump has the deep state on his staff. Mattis, McMaster and John Kelly are deep state because they're career military.

 

[MisterBeale]

For folks that aren't partisan, and are really curious, this is a great link;

The Deep State

Strzok-gate

 

[sealybobo]

Obama controls the Deep State

They remain loyal to him

Trump controls it now too. Or is a part of it. If not, why would he appoint a man who tried to hard to get him to lose?

“Yes, I’m supporting Donald Trump; I’m doing so as enthusiastically as I can given the fact I think he’s a terrible human being,” Mulvaney said.

Following Trump’s unexpected election win, Mulvaney became a key part of the administration, at one point being both the White House budget director and head of the Consumer Protection Bureau.

Why would Trump appoint a RINO? A Deep State RINO? I think Trump is a part of the deep state. Remember the deep state is a collection of rich people and they don't always agree. They didn't like him more than a typical Republican sellout but he will do just fine.

 

[dudmuck]

Obama controls the Deep State

They remain loyal to him

Fun fact: If you say "deep state" into a mirror 30,000 times George Soros will appear in your basement with a pizza box full of uranium.

 

[bendog]

I recently had the opportunity to meet with an officer in the US military and was disappointed in the "globalist" point of view. In spite of President Trump's respect for the military and efforts to improve their lives, this officer had a point of view that was hard to understand given the intelligence and position of the officer.

It represented to me a sad state of the "deep state" i.e. people in power like this officer who seemed to forget that especially as a military officer being "apolitical" means not allowing personal preferences to affect their job.

But this officer's position is one that does influence congresspeople among others and what he shared in this meeting was frankly very disheartening as his political/globalist attitude doesn't help.

A couple examples from our conversation as to why I deemed him a "globalist" and frankly not representative of most Americans.

I will be happy to share if others wish as I don't want to bore people with a long missive at this point.
Suffice to say the couple of examples of his opinion was surprising at least to me as he comes from multi-generational American midwestern family.

They have your medical records and are perusing them right now.