Hospital bill goes viral

[Vox]

Assuming that the hospital bill is real ( I have my doubts, but could be wrong) the hospital has grossly over charged. With 44 thousand already paid, the hospital and those involved have already made a nice profit. The rest of the bill will probably go away if the word "lawer" is mentioned in a few phone calls.

you know that hospitals charge on average 6.000% more to cover the freeloaders?

and no insurance ever pays that much. Neither do those who negotiate paying out of pocket.

the whole ordeal in reality costs about 12K( that is what the insurance will pay)
from which the patient pays about 2K deductible if he has insurance.

it was the deal until 2014.

Now the deductible can be 12K - and you will have to pay it out of pocket before any insurance ever pays a dime. Plus you shed the monthly premiums for NOTHING.

 

[Vox]

The real solution is competition and transparency in pricing, which ObamaCare and employer provided insurance are designed to conceal.

there was never transparency in pricing - EVER.

this is one of the issues which is a corporate benefit which government guards like the sanctity.

 

[asterism]

Single payer in other countries operates much like Medicare does in the US.

Medicare Is More Efficient Than Private Insurance ? Health Affairs Blog
<excerpts>
Medicare Has Lower Administrative Costs Than Private Plans.
According to the Kaiser Family Foundation, administrative costs in Medicare are only about 2 percent of operating expenditures. Defenders of the insurance industry estimate administrative costs as 17 percent of revenue.
Insurance industry-funded studies exclude private plans&#8217; marketing costs and profits from their calculation of administrative costs. Even so, Medicare&#8217;s overhead is dramatically lower.
Medicare administrative cost figures include the collection of Medicare taxes, fraud and abuse controls, and building costs.

Medicare Is Publicly Accountable, Private Plans Are Not
When it comes to how much it costs private plans to deliver care, or individual insurer innovations that deliver value, the publicly available data are scarce. Goodman and Saving present only one study on the ways that insurers try to control costs, and this was published by AHIP. Because Medicare is publicly accountable, it allows us to study what works so that we can improve the health care system.
.
The authors cite a number of innovations that could lower the cost of care, but all of them have been introduced by doctors and clinics, not insurers. Because insurance companies treat their claims data as trade secrets, we do not know if they have adopted such innovations.
Even government-funded Medicare Advantage plans don&#8217;t release payment and coverage data.
A closer look at the data shows that, contrary to Goodman and Saving&#8217;s claims, Medicare delivers health care more efficiently than private insurers. Medicare&#8217;s public accountability and bargaining power give it the ability to drive system change and control skyrocketing health care costs, while profit-driven private insurers have offered no solution.

The only reason Medicare functions in this country is because it provides coverage for a much smaller group than the group funding it. If we expanded Medicare to everyone there wouldn't be enough revenue to pay for it without severely limiting access to medical services.

The average cost of a Medicare patient is about $10,000 per year. If you extrapolate that out to the entire population you're talking about $3.5 Trillion. Where is that money going to come from?

 

[asterism]

A 20 Year-Old Got Appendicitis and This Was His Hospital Bill

Love the comment from the Aussie.



$16k surgery yields a $55k bill, of which twenty year-old is responsible for $11k.

No, actually - this doesn't work for me.

I think my brother's was like 35k before insurance.

This is why all those young libertarian college kids who think they don't need health insurance because they take care of themselves are total idiots. Appendicitis can pretty much happen to anyone who has an appendix - any time - and WHOP - you've got a hospital bill instead of a down payment on a nice house or a handful of decent used cars.

I know of no libertarians that say they don't need insurance.

Can you find me some? Perhaps I'm mistaken.

 

[boedicca]

The real solution is competition and transparency in pricing, which ObamaCare and employer provided insurance are designed to conceal.

there was never transparency in pricing - EVER.

this is one of the issues which is a corporate benefit which government guards like the sanctity.

Yes, there was transparency back when people paid for their own health care.

 

[asterism]

Assuming that the hospital bill is real ( I have my doubts, but could be wrong) the hospital has grossly over charged. With 44 thousand already paid, the hospital and those involved have already made a nice profit. The rest of the bill will probably go away if the word "lawer" is mentioned in a few phone calls.

You've hit on a very good point regarding the cost of healthcare, and that's that providers overcharge regularly. Some of the most guilty parties in that are government hospitals themselves.

 

[boedicca]

Single payer in other countries operates much like Medicare does in the US.

Medicare Is More Efficient Than Private Insurance ? Health Affairs Blog
<excerpts>
Medicare Has Lower Administrative Costs Than Private Plans.
According to the Kaiser Family Foundation, administrative costs in Medicare are only about 2 percent of operating expenditures. Defenders of the insurance industry estimate administrative costs as 17 percent of revenue.
Insurance industry-funded studies exclude private plans’ marketing costs and profits from their calculation of administrative costs. Even so, Medicare’s overhead is dramatically lower.
Medicare administrative cost figures include the collection of Medicare taxes, fraud and abuse controls, and building costs.

Medicare Is Publicly Accountable, Private Plans Are Not
When it comes to how much it costs private plans to deliver care, or individual insurer innovations that deliver value, the publicly available data are scarce. Goodman and Saving present only one study on the ways that insurers try to control costs, and this was published by AHIP. Because Medicare is publicly accountable, it allows us to study what works so that we can improve the health care system.
.
The authors cite a number of innovations that could lower the cost of care, but all of them have been introduced by doctors and clinics, not insurers. Because insurance companies treat their claims data as trade secrets, we do not know if they have adopted such innovations.
Even government-funded Medicare Advantage plans don’t release payment and coverage data.
A closer look at the data shows that, contrary to Goodman and Saving’s claims, Medicare delivers health care more efficiently than private insurers. Medicare’s public accountability and bargaining power give it the ability to drive system change and control skyrocketing health care costs, while profit-driven private insurers have offered no solution.

The only reason Medicare functions in this country is because it provides coverage for a much smaller group than the group funding it. If we expanded Medicare to everyone there wouldn't be enough revenue to pay for it without severely limiting access to medical services.

The average cost is about $10,000 per year. If you extrapolate that out to the entire population you're talking about $3.5 Trillion. Where is that money going to come from?

Duh, the EVUL 1% Billionaire/Millionaires who make $250K...make that $200K...oops, make that $100K...let's see, make that $50K per year!

 

[Dot Com]

Repubs come up w/ their "alternative" bill yet?

 

[Pennywise]

When I was 22, I woke up one morning with severe pain in my leg, focused on my knee. I couldn't really bend it without intense pain, so I took the day off from work and went to the Emergency room.

I waited for nearly 7 hours in the waiting room, then finally someone took x-rays, puzzled at them, said "we have no idea what's wrong", gave me an anti-inflammatory prescription, and sent me on my way. The next morning, my knee was fine, and it never bothered me again. I never even filled the prescription.

I was billed for just over $6,000.

I call bullshit. X-rays and having them read by a physician would not cost that.

The reason healthcare is so expensive is due to third-party payment, which will only get worse, much worse with the Feds in charge.

 

[asterism]

Repubs come up w/ their "alternative" bill yet?

Yes.

http://rsc.scalise.house.gov/uploadedfiles/bill_american_health_care_reform_act.pdf

 

[BobPlumb]

The real solution is competition and transparency in pricing, which ObamaCare and employer provided insurance are designed to conceal.

there was never transparency in pricing - EVER.

this is one of the issues which is a corporate benefit which government guards like the sanctity.

Never ever.......?

I would say not in the last 30 to 50 years

 

[MeBelle]

And taxpayers do not pay insurance company CEO wages.

We will now, thanks to the ACA.

Oh eM Gee...that is soooo true!
It's not really funny.

 

[Moonglow]

When I was 25, I was in the hospital for a day, didn't have surgery and it cost me $6000.
It fucked up my fiances for a few years, it was great.

People with diseases like cancer have to have fundraisers so they don't lose their home.

And that is just fucking pathetic. If I got cancer, I don't have to raise money for my treatment. I just go to hospital, get my treatment, have follow up appointments, and pay zilch. Zero. Nada. I finish my treatment and get on with my life, no worrying about how to pay that massive bill.

Shame on those conservatives who think that people should just plan for sickness, get a better job, save more etc. No one deserves to get seriously ill, and no one deserves to become even more sick with worrying about how to pay the damned bills.

if you get cancer - under obamacare you will die.

Many died of cancer before the ACA.

 

[Moonglow]

Repubs come up w/ their "alternative" bill yet?

The More Body Bags Bill is all they have currently.

 

[Moonglow]

And taxpayers do not pay insurance company CEO wages.

We will now, thanks to the ACA.

Oh eM Gee...that is soooo true!
It's not really funny.

More stupidity...

Insurance corps were part of the TARP bailout. AIG sound familiar?
Insurance corps have the largest cash reserves in the nation, do you think they hide it in a box under the bed, no, they loan it out and use it for reinvestment.
So, the CEO's have gotten tax payer funds for their CEO's. Duh

 

[rdean]

That won't happen under the ACA. Because the ACA is going to fuck the middle class up the ass in order to pay for all 20 year olds' appendicitis.

Because everyone knows ALL 20 year olds have appendicitis. And we should let them die.

 

[MeBelle]

We will now, thanks to the ACA.

Oh eM Gee...that is soooo true!
It's not really funny.

More stupidity...

Insurance corps were part of the TARP bailout. AIG sound familiar?
Insurance corps have the largest cash reserves in the nation, do you think they hide it in a box under the bed, no, they loan it out and use it for reinvestment.
So, the CEO's have gotten tax payer funds for their CEO's. Duh

TARP and AIG are/were involved in health insurance?
No.

Duh backatcha' !

 

[Moonglow]

Oh eM Gee...that is soooo true!
It's not really funny.

More stupidity...

Insurance corps were part of the TARP bailout. AIG sound familiar?
Insurance corps have the largest cash reserves in the nation, do you think they hide it in a box under the bed, no, they loan it out and use it for reinvestment.
So, the CEO's have gotten tax payer funds for their CEO's. Duh

TARP and AIG are/were involved in health insurance?
No.

Duh backatcha' !

In 1960, C.V. Starr hired Maurice R. Greenberg to develop an international accident and health business.[16] Two years later, Mr.Greenberg reorganized one of C.V. Starr&#8217;s U.S. holdings into a successful multiple line carrier.[15] Greenberg focused on selling insurance through independent brokers rather than agents to eliminate agent salaries. Using brokers, AIU could price insurance according to its potential return even if it suffered decreased sales of certain products for great lengths of time with very little extra expense. In 1967, American International Group, Inc. (AIG) was incorporated as a unifying umbrella organization for most of C.V. Starr&#8217;s general and life insurance businesses.[17] In 1968, Starr named Greenberg his successor. The company went public in 1969.[18] The 1970s presented many challenges for AIG as operations in the Middle East and Southeast Asia were curtailed or ceased altogether due to the changing political landscape. However, AIG continued to expand its markets by introducing specialized energy, transportation, and shipping products to serve the needs of niche industries.[19] By 1979, with a growing workforce and a worldwide network of offices, AIG offered clients superior technical and risk management skills in an increasingly competitive marketplace

American International Group - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Moonglow]

Chartis Inc. was a subsidiary of American International Group formed in 2009 to oversee the property-casualty insurance arm of AIG in preparation for a possible initial public offering or spin-off

Chartis has already sold its stakes in Hartford Steam Boiler Inspection and Insurance Company, 21st Century Insurance, and Transatlantic Reinsurance Holdings as these assets were deemed non-core to Chartis' future business plans. HSB went to Munich Re, 21st Century went to Zurich Insurance Group, and Transatlantic ended up with Alleghany Corporation.

Munich Re

Munich Re&#8217;s primary insurance operations are mainly concentrated in the ERGO Insurance Group. ERGO writes all types of life and health insurance and most types of property and casualty insurance. Outside Germany, ERGO is present in more than 30 countries around the world, servicing around 40 million clients. Members of the ERGO Group include the insurance subsidiaries D.A.S., DKV and Europäische Reiseversicherung AG, and the IT service provider ITERGO. With a gross premium written of more than &#8364;17bn in 2012, ERGO is Germany&#8217;s second-largest primary insurance group following Allianz AG

 

[MeBelle]

Chartis Inc. was a subsidiary of American International Group formed in 2009 to oversee the property-casualty insurance arm of AIG in preparation for a possible initial public offering or spin-off

Chartis has already sold its stakes in Hartford Steam Boiler Inspection and Insurance Company, 21st Century Insurance, and Transatlantic Reinsurance Holdings as these assets were deemed non-core to Chartis' future business plans. HSB went to Munich Re, 21st Century went to Zurich Insurance Group, and Transatlantic ended up with Alleghany Corporation.

Munich Re

Munich Re’s primary insurance operations are mainly concentrated in the ERGO Insurance Group. ERGO writes all types of life and health insurance and most types of property and casualty insurance. Outside Germany, ERGO is present in more than 30 countries around the world, servicing around 40 million clients. Members of the ERGO Group include the insurance subsidiaries D.A.S., DKV and Europäische Reiseversicherung AG, and the IT service provider ITERGO. With a gross premium written of more than €17bn in 2012, ERGO is Germany’s second-largest primary insurance group following Allianz AG

More stupidity...

Insurance corps were part of the TARP bailout. AIG sound familiar?
Insurance corps have the largest cash reserves in the nation, do you think they hide it in a box under the bed, no, they loan it out and use it for reinvestment.
So, the CEO's have gotten tax payer funds for their CEO's. Duh

TARP and AIG are/were involved in health insurance?
No.

Duh backatcha' !

In 1960, C.V. Starr hired Maurice R. Greenberg to develop an international accident and health business.[16] Two years later, Mr.Greenberg reorganized one of C.V. Starr’s U.S. holdings into a successful multiple line carrier.[15] Greenberg focused on selling insurance through independent brokers rather than agents to eliminate agent salaries. Using brokers, AIU could price insurance according to its potential return even if it suffered decreased sales of certain products for great lengths of time with very little extra expense. In 1967, American International Group, Inc. (AIG) was incorporated as a unifying umbrella organization for most of C.V. Starr’s general and life insurance businesses.[17] In 1968, Starr named Greenberg his successor. The company went public in 1969.[18] The 1970s presented many challenges for AIG as operations in the Middle East and Southeast Asia were curtailed or ceased altogether due to the changing political landscape. However, AIG continued to expand its markets by introducing specialized energy, transportation, and shipping products to serve the needs of niche industries.[19] By 1979, with a growing workforce and a worldwide network of offices, AIG offered clients superior technical and risk management skills in an increasingly competitive marketplace

American International Group - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

American International Group, Inc. (AIG) and Zurich Financial Services Group (Zurich) announced today an agreement to sell 21st Century Insurance Group, the wholly owned subsidiaries comprising AIG’s U.S. personal auto insurance business
American Intnl Group UK Regulatory Announcement: AIG in Agreement to Sell 21st Century Insurance to Zurich Financial Services Group Unit | Business Wire

The sale of the division is part of AIG's attempts to enable what was once the world's largest insurer pay back a $150bn lifeline from the US government. HSB is one of the largest insurance and inspection companies specialising in engineering risks in the United States.
Munich Re buys AIG's Hartford Steam Boiler for $742m - Telegraph

Click on the products tab.
Munich Re - Welcome

Still not finding where AIG sold HEALTH insurance in the US.

I did find this:
AIG unit sold bogus health plans | Star Tribune

The Essential Health plans included accident and sickness insurance as well as medical discounts. However, they were not approved for sale by the Minnesota Commerce Department and did not meet state requirements.

"Medical discount plans are not health insurance policies and shouldn't be marketed as such," Manny Munson-Regala, deputy commerce commissioner, said Monday.

~~~~~
Duh back to you....