Honoring The Sacrifices Of The Soviet Union in WWII….Really?

[Correll]

You are assuming Hitler would have surrendered while he still had massive forces to the East?

Hitler would never surrender. Hence my earlier comment on him "falling down a flight of stairs".


Why are you pretending that every post of mine is in isolation and that you are ignorant of everything that was said before?


Are you just practicing how reflexively dishonest you can be, for the more important current event discussions, or has it become an uncontrollable reflex for you?

 

[rightwinger]

IMO, the demand for unconditional surrender was a mistake. Letting the german government know that something could be salvaged, instead of the nation being absolutely crushed or occupied by the freaking commies, would have been a motive to surrender to US and the UK.

Yet, they didn’t surrender to the US and UK as the Soviets were storming in from the East
In fact, they didn’t surrender as the Soviets took Berlin

How could you advocate anything but unconditional surrender after knowing the atrocities of the Nazis?

 

[Correll]

Yet, they didn’t surrender to the US and UK as the Soviets were storming in from the East
In fact, they didn’t surrender as the Soviets took Berlin

How could you advocate anything but unconditional surrender after knowing the atrocities of the Nazis?

To lessen or avoid the Cold War, with all of it's atrocities and the threat of nuclear holocaust.


And considering that we are considering decisions made without the benefit of foreknowledge, the real possibility of a commie win, and thus a really shitty world, were lefties like you, define what is a right and wrong and tens of millions, if not more, die, and billions live in abject oppression.

 

[Ringo]

, instead of the nation being absolutely crushed or occupied by the freaking commies, would have been a motive to surrender to US and the UK.

The only freaking thing here is you. As for soviets they were are noble allies in the fight with real and clear Evil and only freaking freaks at that time could think of separate peace with Hitler.
But by this time, American and British soldiers saw the nazi death camps and realized for sure, who they were fighting. A jerk who proposed a separate peace with the nazis would be rolled in tar and feathers and thrown out of political life.
Besides, you forgot, that the United States was vitally interested in the participation of the USSR in the war with Japan. The USSR fulfilled its promise on time, thereby saving the United States from invading the islands and many thousands of casualties among its troops . What thanks did it get for that? No bloody thanks!

The United States, fattened by the war, with reserves of gold from all over the world, having no destruction on its territory and occupying its main rivals in the economic competition, really thought about world domination. Only the USSR was on the way. That's why the Cold War began. The Soviet Union, dilapidated and having lost a huge number of people, did not need any war. But Capitalism thought otherwise.
When even the german monopolies, in the losing country, came out of the war with huge profits, what can we say about the capitalists of the winning countries? Isn't war wonderful! And preparing for war brings huge profits ... So - The Cold War!

 

[PoliticalChic]

We would not have war in the first place, had people hear what Jesus said, rather the than the what is truth question, that Pontius Pilate asked. Us, being made in the Father God's image, have the possibility to inherit a kingdom that is not of this world. They that are like the peacful Jesus, will live in that world.

There are two opposing forces extant.

There always will be.

And evil must be battled.

Let those who love the Lord hate evil, psalm 97:10

 

[PoliticalChic]

Only freaking thing here is you. As for soviets they were are noble allies in the fight with real and clear Evil and only freaking freaks at that time could think of separate peace with Hitler.
But by this time, American and British soldiers saw the nazi death camps and realized for sure, who they were fighting. A jerk who proposed a separate peace with the nazis would be rolled in tar and feathers and thrown out of political life.
Besides, you forgot, that the United States was vitally interested in the participation of the USSR in the war with Japan. The USSR fulfilled its promise on time, thereby saving the United States from invading the islands and many thousands of casualties among its troops . What thanks did it get for that? No bloody thanks!

The United States, fattened by the war, with reserves of gold from all over the world, having no destruction on its territory and occupying its main rivals in the economic competition, really thought about world domination. Only the USSR was on the way. That's why the Cold War began. The Soviet Union, dilapidated and having lost a huge number of people, did not need any war. But Capitalism thought otherwise.

" As for soviets they were are noble allies...."

Of course they weren't, Bonzo.



Victor Kravchenko, one of the first and most influential Soviet defectors to the United States, who had written "I Chose Freedom," a searing account of life under Stalin.

A year and a half after WWII began in Europe, Roosevelt’s Lend-Lease supplied a prodigious amount of war materiel to Russia, without which the embattled Red Army, the only challenge to Hitler’s forces, would have been defeated. The temporary congruence of interests was called an alliance, albeit a strange one. For example, when the Americans tried to find a way that long-range American bombers could land in Russia to re-fuel, so as to bomb deep into Germany, the Russians were found to be suspicious, ungrateful, secretive, xenophobic, unfriendly, in short….a great deal of take and very little give.



While American presence in Russia was modest and equivocal, Russian presence in wartime America was so large that they had to set up a corporate headquarters on Sixteenth Street in Washington. One of the executives in the huge staff was Victor Kravchenko, metallurgist, engineer, executive, and captain in the Red Army. And the first Soviet “defector.”



Kravchenko, a mining and steel engineer, was a mid-level official in the Soviet lend-lease office in Washington, D.C., when he sought asylum in 1944. At the time, the Soviet Union was still a U.S. war ally, and many Americans were willing to give the benefit of the doubt to "Uncle Joe" Stalin. Kravchenko wanted to shatter those illusions. His defection was front-page news and prompted debate at the highest levels of government, up to and including President Franklin D. Roosevelt. Stalin demanded that he be turned over as a traitor--an automatic death sentence. FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover urged FDR to let him stay. On April 13, 1945, the day after Roosevelt died, Kravchenko received notice that his application for asylum had been granted.
http://www.latimes.com/la-tm-kravchenko11may11,0,6020141,full.story




Victor Kravchenko appeared before the committee, speaking in rapid-fire Russian and occasionally switching to heavily accented, balky English. He told the committee that "every responsible representative of the Soviet government in the United States may be regarded as an economic or political spy," and that no Soviet citizen arrived in the U.S. without a "specific assignment" to collect secret documents. He also declared it "foolish and dangerous" to underrate the ability of the Russians to produce nuclear weapons, and said that Soviet disarmament plans were a sham, designed to "play for time." http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/1992-02-12/news/l-affaire-fravchenko/

 

[PoliticalChic]

Why on earth would Germany surrender to the United States? Just like that? After it easily took over the whole of Europe?

Just a further explanation about why the brain-washed, dedicated Liberals believe absurdities such as "Germany was about to take over the world."

If government school didn't cause them to believe that rubbish, there would be a question about why Franklin Roosevelt worked tirelessly to support the homicidal maniac Joseph Stalin, and make certain that Soviet Communism survived, and found a home in his administration and in America.

No, Germany would not have conquered the USSR.

Hitler knew that....and so must have Roosevelt.

Here are the facts:
.. when Operation Barbarossa started on June 22, 1941, the available (German) supplies of fuel, tires, spare parts etc., were only good enough for about two months.....

Stalin, in fact, had been supplying resources to Hitler.

The Wehrmacht continued to advance, albeit very slowly, and by mid-November some units found themselves at only 30 kilometers from the capital. But the troops were now totally exhausted, and running out of supplies. Their commanders knew that it was simply impossible to take Moscow.
Hitler s Failed Blitzkrieg against the Soviet Union. The Battle of Moscow and Stalingrad Turning Point of World War II Global Research - Centre for Research on Globalization
72 Years Ago, December 1941: Turning Point of World War II
'The Victory of the Red Army in front of Moscow was a Major Break'…
by Jacques Pauwels



By attacking in June, Hitler had planned to avoid Russia's three greatest generals....December, January, and February.
He didn't.


So....once one recognizes that Stalin was going to be the winner.....
....why did FDR send him supplies that the Allies could have used?

The schools hide the truth to shield FDR from richly deserved contumely.









Same reason so many universities eschew teaching the French Revolution....students might recognize that it gave birth to every totalitarian revolution in modern times.





"....realistically middle sized Germany could not defeat the much larger Ussr in the long term. Germany would have eventually surrendered to the western allies to prevent total occupation by the USSR ..."
So did the Red Army really singlehandedly defeat the Third Reich Stuff I Done Wrote - The Michael A. Charles Online Presence (comment)

 

[Ringo]

By attacking in June, Hitler had planned to avoid Russia's three greatest generals....December, January, and February.
He didn't.

Then why didn't he attack in the summer? Oh, I forgot, he really attacked in the summer....
And according to "Barbarossa's" plans, the war was supposed to be over in two months. So, let's count July, August... there is no frost, September, October, too, in general, normal weather... Who prevented Hitler from ending the war according to the well-developed plan of the cleverest German General Staff? Hm... It's a mystery... In truth, there is no mystery, it's just that the beaten conquerors, including Napoleon, like to look for excuses for their failures in the Russian winter. Well, Asian untermensh can't beat highly cultured Europeans. It's all bad weather!
But if it's bad weather and your wonderful tanks are drowning in mud, then maybe you should read a geography textbook and find out that there are autumn and winter in Russia and therefore create such tanks that the Russian weather could not do anything to? "Hey!" - the Nazi prostitute will answer you - "Why do we need such tanks. after all, the plan was to end the war before the fall!"....
The circle has closed. The Nazis were defeated by winter, and they did not prepare for it because they planned to end the war earlier... Well, if you planned, why didn't you finish it? "It's all Russian Winter!".....

Why argue at all and prove something to the nazi scum?

P.S. Hitler started the war with Russia at the same time as Napoleon, and Napoleon's army, on foot, reached Moscow in early september. Hitler's army, on tanks, cars and planes, reached Moscow in december..... Who prevented them from at least repeating the achievements of Napoleon? Another historical mystery...
Probably the tsarist NKVD detachments shot half of the tsarist army, that's why the french were ahead of the germans in pace of advancement...

 

[PoliticalChic]

Then why didn't he attack in the summer? Oh, I forgot, he really attacked in the summer....
And according to "Barbarossa's" plans, the war was supposed to be over in two months. So, let's count July, August... there is no frost, September, October, too, in general, normal weather... Who prevented Hitler from ending the war according to the well-developed plan of the cleverest German General Staff? Hm... It's a mystery... In truth, there is no mystery, it's just that the beaten conquerors, including Napoleon, like to look for excuses for their failures in the Russian winter. Well, Asian untermensh can't beat highly cultured Europeans. It's all bad weather!
But if it's bad weather and your wonderful tanks are drowning in mud, then maybe you should read a geography textbook and find out that there are autumn and winter in Russia and therefore create such tanks that the Russian weather could not do anything to? "Hey!" - the Nazi prostitute will answer you - "Why do we need such tanks. after all, the plan was to end the war before the fall!"....
The circle has closed. The Nazis were defeated by winter, and they did not prepare for it because they planned to end the war earlier... Well, if you planned, why didn't you finish it? "It's all Russian Winter!".....

Why argue at all and prove something to the nazi scum?

P.S. Hitler started the war with Russia at the same time as Napoleon, and Napoleon's army, on foot, reached Moscow in early september. Hitler's army, on tanks, cars and planes, reached Moscow in december..... Who prevented them from at least repeating the achievements of Napoleon? Another historical mystery...

Just as little children like to run around in exaggerated cowboy outfits, from time to time we get this sort of juvenile, insipid poster who pretends to support the insupportable, in order to get attention.


Everyone, including this dunce, knows what savages, what barbarians, what murderers Stalin and his henchmen were.....and are.

I admit I respond to his posts simply for the purpose of educating those who might read his garbage.

 

[rightwinger]

Hitler would never surrender. Hence my earlier comment on him "falling down a flight of stairs".


Why are you pretending that every post of mine is in isolation and that you are ignorant of everything that was said before?


Are you just practicing how reflexively dishonest you can be, for the more important current event discussions, or has it become an uncontrollable reflex for you?

Another revisionist History myth
There were 30 attempts on Hitlers life. Those involved were tortured and executed as were members of their families.

The idea that you could assassinate Hitler and the Nazis would just surrender has no merit
Nazi’s would have just implemented next man up

 

[rightwinger]

To lessen or avoid the Cold War, with all of it's atrocities and the threat of nuclear holocaust.


And considering that we are considering decisions made without the benefit of foreknowledge, the real possibility of a commie win, and thus a really shitty world, were lefties like you, define what is a right and wrong and tens of millions, if not more, die, and billions live in abject oppression.

Guess what?
The Cold War worked

A lot of threats and posturing but no real war

How could you substitute real war with the Soviets and say it was a better option?

 

[Ringo]

Everyone, including this dunce, knows what savages, what barbarians, what murderers Stalin and his henchmen were.....and are.

Oh! The last defense line of the lying scoundrel: "Everyone knows that!"

 

[PoliticalChic]

Oh! The last defense line of the lying scoundrel: "Everyone knows that!"

Step off, dunce.

 

[Correll]

The only freaking thing here is you. As for soviets they were are noble allies in the fight with real and clear Evil and only freaking freaks at that time could think of separate peace with Hitler.
But by this time, American and British soldiers saw the nazi death camps and realized for sure, who they were fighting. A jerk who proposed a separate peace with the nazis would be rolled in tar and feathers and thrown out of political life.
Besides, you forgot, that the United States was vitally interested in the participation of the USSR in the war with Japan. The USSR fulfilled its promise on time, thereby saving the United States from invading the islands and many thousands of casualties among its troops . What thanks did it get for that? No bloody thanks!

The United States, fattened by the war, with reserves of gold from all over the world, having no destruction on its territory and occupying its main rivals in the economic competition, really thought about world domination. Only the USSR was on the way. That's why the Cold War began. The Soviet Union, dilapidated and having lost a huge number of people, did not need any war. But Capitalism thought otherwise.
When even the german monopolies, in the losing country, came out of the war with huge profits, what can we say about the capitalists of the winning countries? Isn't war wonderful! And preparing for war brings huge profits ... So - The Cold War!

Interesting. I clearly spelled out that the first thing required would be Hitler dying, and you are talking about a "Peace with Hitler".


SO, you are a commie, I take it? And an America hater.

 

[Otis Mayfield]

Stalin was more of a threat to his fellow Soviets than to the Germans.

Stalin killed roughly 25 million Soviet citizens, mostly with famine, but he also killed millions by executions or sending them to gulags.

Stalin had a wicked sense of humor. When he'd meet someone he'd act surprised and say, "you aren't in jail?!"

 

[Ringo]

Stalin was more of a threat to his fellow Soviets than to the Germans.

Stalin killed roughly 25 million Soviet citizens, mostly with famine, but he also killed millions by executions or sending them to gulags.

Stalin had a wicked sense of humor. When he'd meet someone he'd act surprised and say, "you aren't in jail?!"

Every line here is a lie. Have you tried to become a politician? You can do it.

 

[Ringo]

SO, you are a commie, I take it? And an America hater.

Yes. And if you are american nazi, also yes.

 

[Correll]

Another revisionist History myth
There were 30 attempts on Hitlers life. Those involved were tortured and executed as were members of their families.

The idea that you could assassinate Hitler and the Nazis would just surrender has no merit
Nazi’s would have just implemented next man up

Cool story bruh. Now, I of course, said nothing like, "the Nazi would just surrender".


I'm not sure what you get out of turning every conversation into the other person having to spend all of their time, reminding you what they actually said, and calling you out on how you just make up shit.

 

[Correll]

Guess what?
The Cold War worked

A lot of threats and posturing but no real war

How could you substitute real war with the Soviets and say it was a better option?

And of course, we were discussing decisions made at teh time based on what they knew at the time.



If we are going to be basing it on what we know NOW in the 21st century, then FDR could have just waited till the bomb was ready and nuked Berlin and not spent the lives to invade.

 

[Correll]

Stalin was more of a threat to his fellow Soviets than to the Germans.

Stalin killed roughly 25 million Soviet citizens, mostly with famine, but he also killed millions by executions or sending them to gulags.

Stalin had a wicked sense of humor. When he'd meet someone he'd act surprised and say, "you aren't in jail?!"

LOL! That would have been sort of funny. It a dark, twisted sort of way.