Holy crap i just lit up a smoke at a bar

[Disir]

Here is a suggestion. Don't use employees of any business like you are doing them a favor when really it is all about you. Business got hit. Over 42% in Michigan.Casinos in Illinois took a major hit.
No Ifs, Ands or Butts: Illinois Casinos Lost Revenue after Smoking Banned
http://www.smokersclub.com/banloss3.htm

Try again.

Okay try this. A gambling addict will not stop going to casinos just because they can't smoke.
They can always take a break and smoke in the smoking sections.
I go to casinos a lot and I've seen this in California, New York Las Vegas, Atlantic city etc etc etc. Except in Macau.

And?

Business still good as ever.

There was a big drop. Big. You guys can sit on the sidelines and pat yourselves on the back like you done good but the reality is that it was a big hit. Big. The tax revenue that was lost had an impact. The employees took a hit and were impacted. The business owners took a hit and some of them folded.

Questions?

Me next!

Gonna answer post 129? Specifically, as regards, to wit:

And what I'm saying is, yeah everybody knew what it was before, and many were excluded.

Well ---- now they're not excluded.
Seems to me opening up an entire new population of customers would be good for business -- not bad.

Here are some study questions to help navigate --

Yes or no: is smoking the same activity as drinking?
Yes or no: Do people only go to a bar in order to smoke? Does everyone who drinks --- smoke?
Yes or no: Is any smoker driven out of the room because some asshat walked in and started not-smoking?

Again. I reiterate. You were never excluded. They are bars. You knew what they were walking in. Let me help you out:

Yes or no: Did it impact businesses financially?
Did many close?
Did it impact people who worked in those establishments financially?

Pretty simple.

 

[rightwinger]

Okay try this. A gambling addict will not stop going to casinos just because they can't smoke.
They can always take a break and smoke in the smoking sections.
I go to casinos a lot and I've seen this in California, New York Las Vegas, Atlantic city etc etc etc. Except in Macau.

And?

Business still good as ever.

There was a big drop. Big. You guys can sit on the sidelines and pat yourselves on the back like you done good but the reality is that it was a big hit. Big. The tax revenue that was lost had an impact. The employees took a hit and were impacted. The business owners took a hit and some of them folded.

Questions?

Me next!

Gonna answer post 129? Specifically, as regards, to wit:

And what I'm saying is, yeah everybody knew what it was before, and many were excluded.

Well ---- now they're not excluded.
Seems to me opening up an entire new population of customers would be good for business -- not bad.

Here are some study questions to help navigate --

Yes or no: is smoking the same activity as drinking?
Yes or no: Do people only go to a bar in order to smoke? Does everyone who drinks --- smoke?
Yes or no: Is any smoker driven out of the room because some asshat walked in and started not-smoking?

Again. I reiterate. You were never excluded. They are bars. You knew what they were walking in. Let me help you out:

Yes or no: Did it impact businesses financially?
Did many close?
Did it impact people who worked in those establishments financially?

Pretty simple.

Smoking bans have been in place for over a decade. Bars and restaurants have survived and people are still eating and drinking.

Only difference is smokers are sulking outdoors

 

[Disir]

And?

Business still good as ever.

There was a big drop. Big. You guys can sit on the sidelines and pat yourselves on the back like you done good but the reality is that it was a big hit. Big. The tax revenue that was lost had an impact. The employees took a hit and were impacted. The business owners took a hit and some of them folded.

Questions?

Me next!

Gonna answer post 129? Specifically, as regards, to wit:

And what I'm saying is, yeah everybody knew what it was before, and many were excluded.

Well ---- now they're not excluded.
Seems to me opening up an entire new population of customers would be good for business -- not bad.

Here are some study questions to help navigate --

Yes or no: is smoking the same activity as drinking?
Yes or no: Do people only go to a bar in order to smoke? Does everyone who drinks --- smoke?
Yes or no: Is any smoker driven out of the room because some asshat walked in and started not-smoking?

Again. I reiterate. You were never excluded. They are bars. You knew what they were walking in. Let me help you out:

Yes or no: Did it impact businesses financially?
Did many close?
Did it impact people who worked in those establishments financially?

Pretty simple.

Smoking bans have been in place for over a decade. Bars and restaurants have survived and people are still eating and drinking.

Only difference is smokers are sulking outdoors

16 states differ and it looks like one of yours may be changing. Try as you might, this was not a well thought out move. Especially considering you have bar owners that were not complying to keep their customers happy. They just ran over to Indiana where they can.

 

[rightwinger]

Business still good as ever.

There was a big drop. Big. You guys can sit on the sidelines and pat yourselves on the back like you done good but the reality is that it was a big hit. Big. The tax revenue that was lost had an impact. The employees took a hit and were impacted. The business owners took a hit and some of them folded.

Questions?

Me next!

Gonna answer post 129? Specifically, as regards, to wit:

And what I'm saying is, yeah everybody knew what it was before, and many were excluded.

Well ---- now they're not excluded.
Seems to me opening up an entire new population of customers would be good for business -- not bad.

Here are some study questions to help navigate --

Yes or no: is smoking the same activity as drinking?
Yes or no: Do people only go to a bar in order to smoke? Does everyone who drinks --- smoke?
Yes or no: Is any smoker driven out of the room because some asshat walked in and started not-smoking?

Again. I reiterate. You were never excluded. They are bars. You knew what they were walking in. Let me help you out:

Yes or no: Did it impact businesses financially?
Did many close?
Did it impact people who worked in those establishments financially?

Pretty simple.

Smoking bans have been in place for over a decade. Bars and restaurants have survived and people are still eating and drinking.

Only difference is smokers are sulking outdoors

16 states differ and it looks like one of yours may be changing. Try as you might, this was not a well thought out move. Especially considering you have bar owners that were not complying to keep their customers happy. They just ran over to Indiana where they can.

Public smoking is doomed. Smoking itself will be obsolete in a decade or two as vaping takes hold with younger smokers

 

[skye]

There was a big drop. Big. You guys can sit on the sidelines and pat yourselves on the back like you done good but the reality is that it was a big hit. Big. The tax revenue that was lost had an impact. The employees took a hit and were impacted. The business owners took a hit and some of them folded.

Questions?

Me next!

Gonna answer post 129? Specifically, as regards, to wit:

And what I'm saying is, yeah everybody knew what it was before, and many were excluded.

Well ---- now they're not excluded.
Seems to me opening up an entire new population of customers would be good for business -- not bad.

Here are some study questions to help navigate --

Yes or no: is smoking the same activity as drinking?
Yes or no: Do people only go to a bar in order to smoke? Does everyone who drinks --- smoke?
Yes or no: Is any smoker driven out of the room because some asshat walked in and started not-smoking?

Again. I reiterate. You were never excluded. They are bars. You knew what they were walking in. Let me help you out:

Yes or no: Did it impact businesses financially?
Did many close?
Did it impact people who worked in those establishments financially?

Pretty simple.

Smoking bans have been in place for over a decade. Bars and restaurants have survived and people are still eating and drinking.

Only difference is smokers are sulking outdoors

16 states differ and it looks like one of yours may be changing. Try as you might, this was not a well thought out move. Especially considering you have bar owners that were not complying to keep their customers happy. They just ran over to Indiana where they can.

Public smoking is doomed. Smoking itself will be obsolete in a decade or two as vaping takes hold with younger smokers

Yes, but the nazi smoking police wants to ban vaping too!!!!

When I stopped smoking I started vaping

There is no way to make those people happy. Danm if you do, damn if you don't

What a life!

 

[Disir]

There was a big drop. Big. You guys can sit on the sidelines and pat yourselves on the back like you done good but the reality is that it was a big hit. Big. The tax revenue that was lost had an impact. The employees took a hit and were impacted. The business owners took a hit and some of them folded.

Questions?

Me next!

Gonna answer post 129? Specifically, as regards, to wit:

And what I'm saying is, yeah everybody knew what it was before, and many were excluded.

Well ---- now they're not excluded.
Seems to me opening up an entire new population of customers would be good for business -- not bad.

Here are some study questions to help navigate --

Yes or no: is smoking the same activity as drinking?
Yes or no: Do people only go to a bar in order to smoke? Does everyone who drinks --- smoke?
Yes or no: Is any smoker driven out of the room because some asshat walked in and started not-smoking?

Again. I reiterate. You were never excluded. They are bars. You knew what they were walking in. Let me help you out:

Yes or no: Did it impact businesses financially?
Did many close?
Did it impact people who worked in those establishments financially?

Pretty simple.

Smoking bans have been in place for over a decade. Bars and restaurants have survived and people are still eating and drinking.

Only difference is smokers are sulking outdoors

16 states differ and it looks like one of yours may be changing. Try as you might, this was not a well thought out move. Especially considering you have bar owners that were not complying to keep their customers happy. They just ran over to Indiana where they can.

Public smoking is doomed. Smoking itself will be obsolete in a decade or two as vaping takes hold with younger smokers

Doooomed. DOOOMED.

I doubt it. At any rate, I'm bored with this and trying to figure out this New Freedom Group the shooter belonged to. See ya.

 

[charwin95]

June 29/16 I attended my friend funeral in New York. He doesn't smoke because of second hand smoke he got lung cancer. His wife smoke and now suffering emphysema.

 

[charwin95]

Me next!

Gonna answer post 129? Specifically, as regards, to wit:

Here are some study questions to help navigate --

Yes or no: is smoking the same activity as drinking?
Yes or no: Do people only go to a bar in order to smoke? Does everyone who drinks --- smoke?
Yes or no: Is any smoker driven out of the room because some asshat walked in and started not-smoking?

Again. I reiterate. You were never excluded. They are bars. You knew what they were walking in. Let me help you out:

Yes or no: Did it impact businesses financially?
Did many close?
Did it impact people who worked in those establishments financially?

Pretty simple.

Smoking bans have been in place for over a decade. Bars and restaurants have survived and people are still eating and drinking.

Only difference is smokers are sulking outdoors

16 states differ and it looks like one of yours may be changing. Try as you might, this was not a well thought out move. Especially considering you have bar owners that were not complying to keep their customers happy. They just ran over to Indiana where they can.

Public smoking is doomed. Smoking itself will be obsolete in a decade or two as vaping takes hold with younger smokers

Yes, but the nazi smoking police wants to ban vaping too!!!!

When I stopped smoking I started vaping

There is no way to make those people happy. Danm if you do, damn if you don't

What a life!

Look at this way. Other people are trying to save your life. That is if you care about your life.

 

[Disir]

How paternalistic.

 

[skye]

Again. I reiterate. You were never excluded. They are bars. You knew what they were walking in. Let me help you out:

Yes or no: Did it impact businesses financially?
Did many close?
Did it impact people who worked in those establishments financially?

Pretty simple.

Smoking bans have been in place for over a decade. Bars and restaurants have survived and people are still eating and drinking.

Only difference is smokers are sulking outdoors

16 states differ and it looks like one of yours may be changing. Try as you might, this was not a well thought out move. Especially considering you have bar owners that were not complying to keep their customers happy. They just ran over to Indiana where they can.

Public smoking is doomed. Smoking itself will be obsolete in a decade or two as vaping takes hold with younger smokers

Yes, but the nazi smoking police wants to ban vaping too!!!!

When I stopped smoking I started vaping

There is no way to make those people happy. Danm if you do, damn if you don't

What a life!

Look at this way. Other people are trying to save your life. That is if you care about your life.

I only vap water with flavour.

No nicotine.

 

[Pogo]

Okay try this. A gambling addict will not stop going to casinos just because they can't smoke.
They can always take a break and smoke in the smoking sections.
I go to casinos a lot and I've seen this in California, New York Las Vegas, Atlantic city etc etc etc. Except in Macau.

And?

Business still good as ever.

There was a big drop. Big. You guys can sit on the sidelines and pat yourselves on the back like you done good but the reality is that it was a big hit. Big. The tax revenue that was lost had an impact. The employees took a hit and were impacted. The business owners took a hit and some of them folded.

Questions?

Me next!

Gonna answer post 129? Specifically, as regards, to wit:

And what I'm saying is, yeah everybody knew what it was before, and many were excluded.

Well ---- now they're not excluded.
Seems to me opening up an entire new population of customers would be good for business -- not bad.

Here are some study questions to help navigate --

Yes or no: is smoking the same activity as drinking?
Yes or no: Do people only go to a bar in order to smoke? Does everyone who drinks --- smoke?
Yes or no: Is any smoker driven out of the room because some asshat walked in and started not-smoking?

Again. I reiterate. You were never excluded. They are bars. You knew what they were walking in. Let me help you out:

Yes or no: Did it impact businesses financially?
Did many close?
Did it impact people who worked in those establishments financially?

Pretty simple.

You seem to have missed my question. Like, all of them.

Or are you actually saying that yes, drinking and smoking are the same thing, and anyone who drinks also smokes?
Because I don't get the connection.

Did it impact businesses financially? I'm sure it did, since more people could now go where they couldn't before. That means a bigger customer base. No one was driven out of them because "I can't go in there, there's too much non-smoke in the room".

 

[ChrisL]

Don't be a butt head. Lol!

 

[rightwinger]

And?

Business still good as ever.

There was a big drop. Big. You guys can sit on the sidelines and pat yourselves on the back like you done good but the reality is that it was a big hit. Big. The tax revenue that was lost had an impact. The employees took a hit and were impacted. The business owners took a hit and some of them folded.

Questions?

Me next!

Gonna answer post 129? Specifically, as regards, to wit:

And what I'm saying is, yeah everybody knew what it was before, and many were excluded.

Well ---- now they're not excluded.
Seems to me opening up an entire new population of customers would be good for business -- not bad.

Here are some study questions to help navigate --

Yes or no: is smoking the same activity as drinking?
Yes or no: Do people only go to a bar in order to smoke? Does everyone who drinks --- smoke?
Yes or no: Is any smoker driven out of the room because some asshat walked in and started not-smoking?

Again. I reiterate. You were never excluded. They are bars. You knew what they were walking in. Let me help you out:

Yes or no: Did it impact businesses financially?
Did many close?
Did it impact people who worked in those establishments financially?

Pretty simple.

You seem to have missed my question. Like, all of them.

Or are you actually saying that yes, drinking and smoking are the same thing, and anyone who drinks also smokes?
Because I don't get the connection.

Did it impact businesses financially? I'm sure it did, since more people could now go where they couldn't before. That means a bigger customer base. No one was driven out of them because "I can't go in there, there's too much non-smoke in the room".

I refuse to patronize a business that has clean air

 

[Disir]

And?

Business still good as ever.

There was a big drop. Big. You guys can sit on the sidelines and pat yourselves on the back like you done good but the reality is that it was a big hit. Big. The tax revenue that was lost had an impact. The employees took a hit and were impacted. The business owners took a hit and some of them folded.

Questions?

Me next!

Gonna answer post 129? Specifically, as regards, to wit:

And what I'm saying is, yeah everybody knew what it was before, and many were excluded.

Well ---- now they're not excluded.
Seems to me opening up an entire new population of customers would be good for business -- not bad.

Here are some study questions to help navigate --

Yes or no: is smoking the same activity as drinking?
Yes or no: Do people only go to a bar in order to smoke? Does everyone who drinks --- smoke?
Yes or no: Is any smoker driven out of the room because some asshat walked in and started not-smoking?

Again. I reiterate. You were never excluded. They are bars. You knew what they were walking in. Let me help you out:

Yes or no: Did it impact businesses financially?
Did many close?
Did it impact people who worked in those establishments financially?

Pretty simple.

You seem to have missed my question. Like, all of them.

Or are you actually saying that yes, drinking and smoking are the same thing, and anyone who drinks also smokes?
Because I don't get the connection.

Did it impact businesses financially? I'm sure it did, since more people could now go where they couldn't before. That means a bigger customer base. No one was driven out of them because "I can't go in there, there's too much non-smoke in the room".

I've provided links to the impact on business and many of them closing. You're being intentionally obtuse.

Many people that drink also smoke. In fact, when they drink they smoke more. It impacts how long that individual stays, if they come at all, and therefore, how much money is dropped. Why do we have DJs that play music at a faster tempo? Because people have a tendency to drink more.

Further, if you are a neighborhood bar or a mom and pop bar in a working class neighborhood you were absolutely impacted. Many of these people work outdoors or work for say the steel mills. The vast majority of those folks smoke. Work hard/play hard.

If there was such a demand for a non smoking bar then they would have opened them, eh? They didn't.

 

[Pogo]

Business still good as ever.

There was a big drop. Big. You guys can sit on the sidelines and pat yourselves on the back like you done good but the reality is that it was a big hit. Big. The tax revenue that was lost had an impact. The employees took a hit and were impacted. The business owners took a hit and some of them folded.

Questions?

Me next!

Gonna answer post 129? Specifically, as regards, to wit:

And what I'm saying is, yeah everybody knew what it was before, and many were excluded.

Well ---- now they're not excluded.
Seems to me opening up an entire new population of customers would be good for business -- not bad.

Here are some study questions to help navigate --

Yes or no: is smoking the same activity as drinking?
Yes or no: Do people only go to a bar in order to smoke? Does everyone who drinks --- smoke?
Yes or no: Is any smoker driven out of the room because some asshat walked in and started not-smoking?

Again. I reiterate. You were never excluded. They are bars. You knew what they were walking in. Let me help you out:

Yes or no: Did it impact businesses financially?
Did many close?
Did it impact people who worked in those establishments financially?

Pretty simple.

You seem to have missed my question. Like, all of them.

Or are you actually saying that yes, drinking and smoking are the same thing, and anyone who drinks also smokes?
Because I don't get the connection.

Did it impact businesses financially? I'm sure it did, since more people could now go where they couldn't before. That means a bigger customer base. No one was driven out of them because "I can't go in there, there's too much non-smoke in the room".

I've provided links to the impact on business and many of them closing. You're being intentionally obtuse.

Many people that drink also smoke. In fact, when they drink they smoke more. It impacts how long that individual stays, if they come at all, and therefore, how much money is dropped. Why do we have DJs that play music at a faster tempo? Because people have a tendency to drink more.

Further, if you are a neighborhood bar or a mom and pop bar in a working class neighborhood you were absolutely impacted. Many of these people work outdoors or work for say the steel mills. The vast majority of those folks smoke. Work hard/play hard.

If there was such a demand for a non smoking bar then they would have opened them, eh? They didn't.

You provided links to cherrypicking. You still can't answer how anybody would be forced out of a place because not enough people are smoking. And you're trying to dance around the equation of smoking with drinking as if they're inseparable. They're not. They're not even related.

But to return to the central question -- take two people, one smoking, one not: which one is impacting the other whether the other wants it or not? There ain't no way around that.

Denial is part and parcel of the smoking experience. When you take a noxious weed, have poor government-subsidized subsistence farmers grow it, have huge multinational megacorporations buy it at levels that keep them confined to sharecropping, wrap it in wood pulp that's been treated with chlorine to make it so "only pure white touches your lips", and then use emotional hooks to sell to the gullible the only product that, when used as intended kills you, so they can pick those chlorine insecticided weed sticks out one by one, set that thing on fire and intentionally inhale the smoke into their lungs and keep it there ------- that's a demonstration of how far human self-delusion can sink.

 

[rightwinger]

There was a big drop. Big. You guys can sit on the sidelines and pat yourselves on the back like you done good but the reality is that it was a big hit. Big. The tax revenue that was lost had an impact. The employees took a hit and were impacted. The business owners took a hit and some of them folded.

Questions?

Me next!

Gonna answer post 129? Specifically, as regards, to wit:

And what I'm saying is, yeah everybody knew what it was before, and many were excluded.

Well ---- now they're not excluded.
Seems to me opening up an entire new population of customers would be good for business -- not bad.

Here are some study questions to help navigate --

Yes or no: is smoking the same activity as drinking?
Yes or no: Do people only go to a bar in order to smoke? Does everyone who drinks --- smoke?
Yes or no: Is any smoker driven out of the room because some asshat walked in and started not-smoking?

Again. I reiterate. You were never excluded. They are bars. You knew what they were walking in. Let me help you out:

Yes or no: Did it impact businesses financially?
Did many close?
Did it impact people who worked in those establishments financially?

Pretty simple.

You seem to have missed my question. Like, all of them.

Or are you actually saying that yes, drinking and smoking are the same thing, and anyone who drinks also smokes?
Because I don't get the connection.

Did it impact businesses financially? I'm sure it did, since more people could now go where they couldn't before. That means a bigger customer base. No one was driven out of them because "I can't go in there, there's too much non-smoke in the room".

I've provided links to the impact on business and many of them closing. You're being intentionally obtuse.

Many people that drink also smoke. In fact, when they drink they smoke more. It impacts how long that individual stays, if they come at all, and therefore, how much money is dropped. Why do we have DJs that play music at a faster tempo? Because people have a tendency to drink more.

Further, if you are a neighborhood bar or a mom and pop bar in a working class neighborhood you were absolutely impacted. Many of these people work outdoors or work for say the steel mills. The vast majority of those folks smoke. Work hard/play hard.

If there was such a demand for a non smoking bar then they would have opened them, eh? They didn't.

You provided links to cherrypicking. You still can't answer how anybody would be forced out of a place because not enough people are smoking. And you're trying to dance around the equation of smoking with drinking as if they're inseparable. They're not. They're not even related.

But to return to the central question -- take two people, one smoking, one not: which one is impacting the other whether the other wants it or not? There ain't no way around that.

Denial is part and parcel of the smoking experience. When you take a noxious weed, have poor government-subsidized subsistence farmers grow it, have huge multinational megacorporations buy it at levels that keep them confined to sharecropping, wrap it in wood pulp that's been treated with chlorine to make it so "only pure white touches your lips", and then use emotional hooks to sell to the gullible the only product that, when used as intended kills you, so they can pick those chlorine insecticided weed sticks out one by one, set that thing on fire and intentionally inhale the smoke into their lungs and keep it there ------- that's a demonstration of how far human self-delusion can sink.

Smokers sulked when they could no longer breathe filth in their favorite establishments. But they got used to getting kicked outdoors at work, in public spaces even at home

They came back to restaurants and bars

 

[Pogo]

Me next!

Gonna answer post 129? Specifically, as regards, to wit:

Here are some study questions to help navigate --

Yes or no: is smoking the same activity as drinking?
Yes or no: Do people only go to a bar in order to smoke? Does everyone who drinks --- smoke?
Yes or no: Is any smoker driven out of the room because some asshat walked in and started not-smoking?

Again. I reiterate. You were never excluded. They are bars. You knew what they were walking in. Let me help you out:

Yes or no: Did it impact businesses financially?
Did many close?
Did it impact people who worked in those establishments financially?

Pretty simple.

You seem to have missed my question. Like, all of them.

Or are you actually saying that yes, drinking and smoking are the same thing, and anyone who drinks also smokes?
Because I don't get the connection.

Did it impact businesses financially? I'm sure it did, since more people could now go where they couldn't before. That means a bigger customer base. No one was driven out of them because "I can't go in there, there's too much non-smoke in the room".

I've provided links to the impact on business and many of them closing. You're being intentionally obtuse.

Many people that drink also smoke. In fact, when they drink they smoke more. It impacts how long that individual stays, if they come at all, and therefore, how much money is dropped. Why do we have DJs that play music at a faster tempo? Because people have a tendency to drink more.

Further, if you are a neighborhood bar or a mom and pop bar in a working class neighborhood you were absolutely impacted. Many of these people work outdoors or work for say the steel mills. The vast majority of those folks smoke. Work hard/play hard.

If there was such a demand for a non smoking bar then they would have opened them, eh? They didn't.

You provided links to cherrypicking. You still can't answer how anybody would be forced out of a place because not enough people are smoking. And you're trying to dance around the equation of smoking with drinking as if they're inseparable. They're not. They're not even related.

But to return to the central question -- take two people, one smoking, one not: which one is impacting the other whether the other wants it or not? There ain't no way around that.

Denial is part and parcel of the smoking experience. When you take a noxious weed, have poor government-subsidized subsistence farmers grow it, have huge multinational megacorporations buy it at levels that keep them confined to sharecropping, wrap it in wood pulp that's been treated with chlorine to make it so "only pure white touches your lips", and then use emotional hooks to sell to the gullible the only product that, when used as intended kills you, so they can pick those chlorine insecticided weed sticks out one by one, set that thing on fire and intentionally inhale the smoke into their lungs and keep it there ------- that's a demonstration of how far human self-delusion can sink.

Smokers sulked when they could no longer breathe filth in their favorite establishments. But they got used to getting kicked outdoors at work, in public spaces even at home

They came back to restaurants and bars

I suspect a deep part of it is psychological insecurity --- if you're gonna commit a heinous, intrusive, self-destructive act, you'd rather have other co-conspirators in the room doing it too so you can tell each other it's a reasonable thing to do. So you create echobubble cells.

A singularly selfish act it is.

 

[Pop23]

Again. I reiterate. You were never excluded. They are bars. You knew what they were walking in. Let me help you out:

Yes or no: Did it impact businesses financially?
Did many close?
Did it impact people who worked in those establishments financially?

Pretty simple.

You seem to have missed my question. Like, all of them.

Or are you actually saying that yes, drinking and smoking are the same thing, and anyone who drinks also smokes?
Because I don't get the connection.

Did it impact businesses financially? I'm sure it did, since more people could now go where they couldn't before. That means a bigger customer base. No one was driven out of them because "I can't go in there, there's too much non-smoke in the room".

I've provided links to the impact on business and many of them closing. You're being intentionally obtuse.

Many people that drink also smoke. In fact, when they drink they smoke more. It impacts how long that individual stays, if they come at all, and therefore, how much money is dropped. Why do we have DJs that play music at a faster tempo? Because people have a tendency to drink more.

Further, if you are a neighborhood bar or a mom and pop bar in a working class neighborhood you were absolutely impacted. Many of these people work outdoors or work for say the steel mills. The vast majority of those folks smoke. Work hard/play hard.

If there was such a demand for a non smoking bar then they would have opened them, eh? They didn't.

You provided links to cherrypicking. You still can't answer how anybody would be forced out of a place because not enough people are smoking. And you're trying to dance around the equation of smoking with drinking as if they're inseparable. They're not. They're not even related.

But to return to the central question -- take two people, one smoking, one not: which one is impacting the other whether the other wants it or not? There ain't no way around that.

Denial is part and parcel of the smoking experience. When you take a noxious weed, have poor government-subsidized subsistence farmers grow it, have huge multinational megacorporations buy it at levels that keep them confined to sharecropping, wrap it in wood pulp that's been treated with chlorine to make it so "only pure white touches your lips", and then use emotional hooks to sell to the gullible the only product that, when used as intended kills you, so they can pick those chlorine insecticided weed sticks out one by one, set that thing on fire and intentionally inhale the smoke into their lungs and keep it there ------- that's a demonstration of how far human self-delusion can sink.

Smokers sulked when they could no longer breathe filth in their favorite establishments. But they got used to getting kicked outdoors at work, in public spaces even at home

They came back to restaurants and bars

I suspect a deep part of it is psychological insecurity --- if you're gonna commit a heinous, intrusive, self-destructive act, you'd rather have other co-conspirators in the room doing it too so you can tell each other it's a reasonable thing to do. So you create echobubble cells.

A singularly selfish act it is.

If I were you, I'd stay out of private businesses that would allow such a thing, or start your own business and restrict it.

So easy.

 

[Pop23]

Business still good as ever.

There was a big drop. Big. You guys can sit on the sidelines and pat yourselves on the back like you done good but the reality is that it was a big hit. Big. The tax revenue that was lost had an impact. The employees took a hit and were impacted. The business owners took a hit and some of them folded.

Questions?

Me next!

Gonna answer post 129? Specifically, as regards, to wit:

And what I'm saying is, yeah everybody knew what it was before, and many were excluded.

Well ---- now they're not excluded.
Seems to me opening up an entire new population of customers would be good for business -- not bad.

Here are some study questions to help navigate --

Yes or no: is smoking the same activity as drinking?
Yes or no: Do people only go to a bar in order to smoke? Does everyone who drinks --- smoke?
Yes or no: Is any smoker driven out of the room because some asshat walked in and started not-smoking?

Again. I reiterate. You were never excluded. They are bars. You knew what they were walking in. Let me help you out:

Yes or no: Did it impact businesses financially?
Did many close?
Did it impact people who worked in those establishments financially?

Pretty simple.

You seem to have missed my question. Like, all of them.

Or are you actually saying that yes, drinking and smoking are the same thing, and anyone who drinks also smokes?
Because I don't get the connection.

Did it impact businesses financially? I'm sure it did, since more people could now go where they couldn't before. That means a bigger customer base. No one was driven out of them because "I can't go in there, there's too much non-smoke in the room".

I refuse to patronize a business that has clean air

Do you enjoy looking like a helpless child?

 

[Pogo]

You seem to have missed my question. Like, all of them.

Or are you actually saying that yes, drinking and smoking are the same thing, and anyone who drinks also smokes?
Because I don't get the connection.

Did it impact businesses financially? I'm sure it did, since more people could now go where they couldn't before. That means a bigger customer base. No one was driven out of them because "I can't go in there, there's too much non-smoke in the room".

I've provided links to the impact on business and many of them closing. You're being intentionally obtuse.

Many people that drink also smoke. In fact, when they drink they smoke more. It impacts how long that individual stays, if they come at all, and therefore, how much money is dropped. Why do we have DJs that play music at a faster tempo? Because people have a tendency to drink more.

Further, if you are a neighborhood bar or a mom and pop bar in a working class neighborhood you were absolutely impacted. Many of these people work outdoors or work for say the steel mills. The vast majority of those folks smoke. Work hard/play hard.

If there was such a demand for a non smoking bar then they would have opened them, eh? They didn't.

You provided links to cherrypicking. You still can't answer how anybody would be forced out of a place because not enough people are smoking. And you're trying to dance around the equation of smoking with drinking as if they're inseparable. They're not. They're not even related.

But to return to the central question -- take two people, one smoking, one not: which one is impacting the other whether the other wants it or not? There ain't no way around that.

Denial is part and parcel of the smoking experience. When you take a noxious weed, have poor government-subsidized subsistence farmers grow it, have huge multinational megacorporations buy it at levels that keep them confined to sharecropping, wrap it in wood pulp that's been treated with chlorine to make it so "only pure white touches your lips", and then use emotional hooks to sell to the gullible the only product that, when used as intended kills you, so they can pick those chlorine insecticided weed sticks out one by one, set that thing on fire and intentionally inhale the smoke into their lungs and keep it there ------- that's a demonstration of how far human self-delusion can sink.

Smokers sulked when they could no longer breathe filth in their favorite establishments. But they got used to getting kicked outdoors at work, in public spaces even at home

They came back to restaurants and bars

I suspect a deep part of it is psychological insecurity --- if you're gonna commit a heinous, intrusive, self-destructive act, you'd rather have other co-conspirators in the room doing it too so you can tell each other it's a reasonable thing to do. So you create echobubble cells.

A singularly selfish act it is.

If I were you, I'd stay out of private businesses that would allow such a thing, or start your own business and restrict it.

So easy.

Guess what I'm doing right now.

---- not smoking.

Are you 'offended'?