Holder: I'm not trying to equate the two...

[Vidi]

For those of you who keep lying about F&F being a Bush program, I have holder, in his own words, telling Congress that F&F and the Bush program are two separate things.

Holder contradicts Bush did it too.wmv - YouTube

The point being?

That people who say that Bush started this are liars. The point is, even the AG under Obama acknowledges that the two programs are completely dissimilar and that F&F is wholly owned by the DOJ under the Obama Administration.

Who you believe is up to you, but this is directly from the horses mouth.

The Spew Czar should be considered for forced resignation and a few people should be looked at for perjury charges.

No the two programs are VERY similar. THATS WHY ITS SO BAD!


It failed during the Bush years and was abandoned because they lost 200 guns. Then in come the Obama people and they reinstate a FAILED program and lose THOUSANDS???

How can you be missing the REAL issue? Its sooooooooo much worse than the one youre focusing on.

 

[Darkwind]

The point being?

That people who say that Bush started this are liars. The point is, even the AG under Obama acknowledges that the two programs are completely dissimilar and that F&F is wholly owned by the DOJ under the Obama Administration.

Who you believe is up to you, but this is directly from the horses mouth.

The Spew Czar should be considered for forced resignation and a few people should be looked at for perjury charges.

No the two programs are VERY similar. THATS WHY ITS SO BAD!


It failed during the Bush years and was abandoned because they lost 200 guns. Then in come the Obama people and they reinstate a FAILED program and lose THOUSANDS???

How can you be missing the REAL issue? Its sooooooooo much worse than the one youre focusing on.

You were just given ample reasons on why and how they are not.

One is bad and a disaster, the other was a legitimate law enforcement operation. Can you guess which is which?

 

[Vidi]

That people who say that Bush started this are liars. The point is, even the AG under Obama acknowledges that the two programs are completely dissimilar and that F&F is wholly owned by the DOJ under the Obama Administration.

Who you believe is up to you, but this is directly from the horses mouth.

The Spew Czar should be considered for forced resignation and a few people should be looked at for perjury charges.

No the two programs are VERY similar. THATS WHY ITS SO BAD!


It failed during the Bush years and was abandoned because they lost 200 guns. Then in come the Obama people and they reinstate a FAILED program and lose THOUSANDS???

How can you be missing the REAL issue? Its sooooooooo much worse than the one youre focusing on.

You were just given ample reasons on why and how they are not.

One is bad and a disaster, the other was a legitimate law enforcement operation. Can you guess which is which?

They were both "legitimate" law enforcemement operations. They used the exact same failed tactic. And I guarantee, they BOTH got people killed.

The difference is the Obama people should have known better because they had the benefit of the Bush peoples failure. In my opinion, thats far worse because they chose to ignore the facts and proceed anyway...which is probably one of the reasons they didnt coordinate with the Mexican government as well...because the Mexicans already knew it would blow up in their face. That and the corruption insode the Mexican government that is.

 

[GuyPinestra]

GOD damnit! Quit trying to inject "truth" into the topic!

Sorry but thats what I like to deal with...the truth. I support Obama in the next election but Im not afraid to point out when he fucked up...which Fast and Furious clearly is...a **** up. A major one. That may even cost him the election.

Its certainly gotten the conversation away from the previous topics of Vulture Capitalism and Voter suppression, hasnt it?

Maybe next week, Romney will kick a baby. Not likely, but I can hope lol.

I really commend you for your honesty and commitment. I don't mind anyone and their support for Obama as long as they don't twist the facts to rationalize their support. They just should have admitted the errors at the beginning and avoided all of this. You are right. This may cost him the election.

I respect you as an objective and honest poster.

I second that statement, and it really is a refreshing change!

 

[Ernie S.]

I put equate in my coffee every morning...

You better watch out guy. I hear that stuff will turn you into a monkey if you use too much.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

I put equate in my coffee every morning...

You better watch out guy. I hear that stuff will turn you into a monkey if you use too much.

I heard it will turn you into an obama drone.

 

[Vidi]

Sorry but thats what I like to deal with...the truth. I support Obama in the next election but Im not afraid to point out when he fucked up...which Fast and Furious clearly is...a **** up. A major one. That may even cost him the election.

Its certainly gotten the conversation away from the previous topics of Vulture Capitalism and Voter suppression, hasnt it?

Maybe next week, Romney will kick a baby. Not likely, but I can hope lol.

I really commend you for your honesty and commitment. I don't mind anyone and their support for Obama as long as they don't twist the facts to rationalize their support. They just should have admitted the errors at the beginning and avoided all of this. You are right. This may cost him the election.

I respect you as an objective and honest poster.

I second that statement, and it really is a refreshing change!

I also see the Kill List as an impeachable offense...but none of my opponents are bringing it up so I guess its a non issue. Shame. I honestly think someone ought to hold his feet to the fire on that one.

Oh and try to keep all of this in mind when I blast Romney please...lol

 

[bigrebnc1775]

I really commend you for your honesty and commitment. I don't mind anyone and their support for Obama as long as they don't twist the facts to rationalize their support. They just should have admitted the errors at the beginning and avoided all of this. You are right. This may cost him the election.

I respect you as an objective and honest poster.

I second that statement, and it really is a refreshing change!

I also see the Kill List as an impeachable offense...but none of my opponents are bringing it up so I guess its a non issue. Shame. I honestly think someone ought to hold his feet to the fire on that one.

Oh and try to keep all of this in mind when I blast Romney please...lol

The kill list? I've brought it up but didn't get much traction.

 

[Ernie S.]

Even John Stewart is getting it wrong saying that Obama "inherited" this program from the Bush years.

Its absolutely not true.

First there was GunRunner in 2005, then Wide Reciever in 2007, then NOTHING until 2009 when fast and Furious started up.

However, the fact that its the EXACT same tactic as the Bush Era programs SHOULD put an end to the nonsense taht this was all about taking away 2nd amendment rights. If that lie were true, then Bush was doing the same thing...was he trying to grab our guns? Nope. And neither is Obama.

Plenty of REALLY BAD SHIT in this debacle to slam Obama for...Gun grabbing is NOT one of them.

Then explain the memos referencing the 'long gun' requirements the DOJ was wanting to implement. Explain the cacophony of liberal voices, from Obama right down the line, decrying all the deaths south of the border and blaming American guns, pushing for a reinstituted assault weapons ban.

And then explain why all those voices STOPPED as soon as Fast & Furious became public.

Take your time, I'll wait.

Youre talking about "Demand Letter 3 " which only asked that Gun Dealers would have to report suspiscious sales. Personally, I dont see a problem with that.

As far as the assault weapons ban, Ive heard almost no one talking about that since the Giffords shooting and even then it was about the clips themselves.

Theyre not getting our guns. Not going to happen. this happens EVERY election cycle. If the Dems win, theyll take our guns. Well, they havent gotten mine. They never will. And Im not going to get all crazy worried about a political tactic that I see every damned election.

Time we got smarter than that.

As far as why they all got silent? Well, how much do you hear about Bain capital right now? Or Trayvon Martin? Or OctoMoms porn video? ( yes she has one now...and its CRAZY weird. Saw the not so porny parts on BuzzFeed )

Something else took center stage. Americas all have ADD, we looked away and saw a new bright and shiny. In a week or two, Romney will kick a cat or say something stupid and the attention will turn to that. Then Obama will do something stupid and the attention will turn to that.

Sorry guy, but Fast and Furious has legs. The only way it goes away is for Holder to resign. Dumping a few mid level Justice and ATF underlings under the bus, ain't going to cut it.
Now that obama has claimed executive privilege and McConnell has demanded justification for each subpoenaed document, this is going to drag on, likely past November.

 

[Ernie S.]

Even John Stewart is getting it wrong saying that Obama "inherited" this program from the Bush years.

Its absolutely not true.

First there was GunRunner in 2005, then Wide Reciever in 2007, then NOTHING until 2009 when fast and Furious started up.

However, the fact that its the EXACT same tactic as the Bush Era programs SHOULD put an end to the nonsense taht this was all about taking away 2nd amendment rights. If that lie were true, then Bush was doing the same thing...was he trying to grab our guns? Nope. And neither is Obama.

Plenty of REALLY BAD SHIT in this debacle to slam Obama for...Gun grabbing is NOT one of them.

That might be true if bush did not have contact with the Mexican government and both countries working together. Holder and obama didn't do that.

We know that Fast and Furious started without the knowledge of Holder.

No. We don't.

 

[GuyPinestra]

I really commend you for your honesty and commitment. I don't mind anyone and their support for Obama as long as they don't twist the facts to rationalize their support. They just should have admitted the errors at the beginning and avoided all of this. You are right. This may cost him the election.

I respect you as an objective and honest poster.

I second that statement, and it really is a refreshing change!

I also see the Kill List as an impeachable offense...but none of my opponents are bringing it up so I guess its a non issue. Shame. I honestly think someone ought to hold his feet to the fire on that one.

Oh and try to keep all of this in mind when I blast Romney please...lol

Not a problem, my personal opinion is that he needs to eat at the 2 for 1 buffet, that way he can feed both of his faces...

 

[Ernie S.]

I put equate in my coffee every morning...

You better watch out guy. I hear that stuff will turn you into a monkey if you use too much.

I heard it will turn you into an obama drone.

Not Dog! The shit gets me high. I stay the hell away from artificial sweeteners.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

For those of you who keep lying about F&F being a Bush program, I have holder, in his own words, telling Congress that F&F and the Bush program are two separate things.

Holder contradicts Bush did it too.wmv - YouTube

The point being?

The point being that you are an idiot.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/polit...s-will-become-another-republican-debacle.html

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Even John Stewart is getting it wrong saying that Obama "inherited" this program from the Bush years.

Its absolutely not true.

First there was GunRunner in 2005, then Wide Reciever in 2007, then NOTHING until 2009 when fast and Furious started up.

However, the fact that its the EXACT same tactic as the Bush Era programs SHOULD put an end to the nonsense taht this was all about taking away 2nd amendment rights. If that lie were true, then Bush was doing the same thing...was he trying to grab our guns? Nope. And neither is Obama.

Plenty of REALLY BAD SHIT in this debacle to slam Obama for...Gun grabbing is NOT one of them.

That might be true if bush did not have contact with the Mexican government and both countries working together. Holder and obama didn't do that.

We know that Fast and Furious started without the knowledge of Holder.

We don't know that. Personally, I believe that, but I don't know it. What do you think you know that I don't know?

 

[francoHFW]

Change the channel, dupes- no one in the real world believes this crappe anymore.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Change the channel, dupes- no one in the real world believes this crappe anymore.

turn the page obama is done dumb ass

 

[Darkwind]

No the two programs are VERY similar. THATS WHY ITS SO BAD!


It failed during the Bush years and was abandoned because they lost 200 guns. Then in come the Obama people and they reinstate a FAILED program and lose THOUSANDS???

How can you be missing the REAL issue? Its sooooooooo much worse than the one youre focusing on.

You were just given ample reasons on why and how they are not.

One is bad and a disaster, the other was a legitimate law enforcement operation. Can you guess which is which?

They were both "legitimate" law enforcemement operations. They used the exact same failed tactic. And I guarantee, they BOTH got people killed.

The difference is the Obama people should have known better because they had the benefit of the Bush peoples failure. In my opinion, thats far worse because they chose to ignore the facts and proceed anyway...which is probably one of the reasons they didnt coordinate with the Mexican government as well...because the Mexicans already knew it would blow up in their face. That and the corruption insode the Mexican government that is.

I'm going to have to put you on ignore I suppose. You are dishonest and unwilling to admit you are wrong. I will not debate with liars.

They did NOT use the same tactics, no one was killed by guns that got away from Wide Reciever, F&F did not have the Mexican government on board and when innocent civilians and a border agent get killed because of the operation, it becomes illegitimate.

Go find someone else to feed your need to argue for the sole sake of arguing.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

You were just given ample reasons on why and how they are not.

One is bad and a disaster, the other was a legitimate law enforcement operation. Can you guess which is which?

They were both "legitimate" law enforcemement operations. They used the exact same failed tactic. And I guarantee, they BOTH got people killed.

The difference is the Obama people should have known better because they had the benefit of the Bush peoples failure. In my opinion, thats far worse because they chose to ignore the facts and proceed anyway...which is probably one of the reasons they didnt coordinate with the Mexican government as well...because the Mexicans already knew it would blow up in their face. That and the corruption insode the Mexican government that is.

I'm going to have to put you on ignore I suppose. You are dishonest and unwilling to admit you are wrong. I will not debate with liars.

They did NOT use the same tactics, no one was killed by guns that got away from Wide Reciever, F&F did not have the Mexican government on board and when innocent civilians and a border agent get killed because of the operation, it becomes illegitimate.

Go find someone else to feed your need to argue for the sole sake of arguing.

I haven't been reading all of Vidi comments in this thread but where I have posted to him he's been pretty honest, and from what I read in this post of his comments it was the truth.

 

[Truthmatters]

the tactic was developed under the Bush admin.

 

[Darkwind]

They were both "legitimate" law enforcemement operations. They used the exact same failed tactic. And I guarantee, they BOTH got people killed.

The difference is the Obama people should have known better because they had the benefit of the Bush peoples failure. In my opinion, thats far worse because they chose to ignore the facts and proceed anyway...which is probably one of the reasons they didnt coordinate with the Mexican government as well...because the Mexicans already knew it would blow up in their face. That and the corruption insode the Mexican government that is.

I'm going to have to put you on ignore I suppose. You are dishonest and unwilling to admit you are wrong. I will not debate with liars.

They did NOT use the same tactics, no one was killed by guns that got away from Wide Reciever, F&F did not have the Mexican government on board and when innocent civilians and a border agent get killed because of the operation, it becomes illegitimate.

Go find someone else to feed your need to argue for the sole sake of arguing.

I haven't been reading all of Vidi comments in this thread but where I have posted to him he's been pretty honest, and from what I read in this post of his comments it was the truth.

Well, here is the problem. The man who is dead center in this scandal, who has more knowledge than just about anyone inside the scandal, and way more knowledge than anyone OUTSIDE this scandal, is on video admitting that he knows what Wide Receiver is, and what Fast and Furious is and that THEY ARE NOTHING ALIKE! In fact, his words are that they are NOT comparable.

When faced with that kind of truth, if someone wishes to continue to assert that they are correct when their information is in direct conflict with the expert on the issue, then I conclude that they are arguing, for the sole sake of just having an argument. To do that, you have to be dishonest or at the very least, willing to suspend disbelief for your own sake.

Neither one will I abide any longer. This forum is just too full of people like that.

You'll have to excuse Me, I need to go get some stuff done.