Hitler, Fascism and the right wing

[Wry Catcher]

An example of a primary source:

From the New York Times, March 5, 1933, pg. 1:

"VICTORY FOR HITLER IS EXPECTED TODAY"

"No Counter Demonstrations"

"There were no counter demonstrations from the opposition. They were verboten, for this is a one way election. Nor, late to night, despite the dire predictions sent to the outside world, had any serious disturbance been reported. All that is over, for what is the use of inviting inevitable and overwhelming reprisals when all the authority and all the weapons are monopolized by the other side.

"In Thuringia, the only state in which a few Socialist Newspapers remain unsuspended they were all compelled by the Nazi state government today to reprint Chancellor Hitler's recent speech against Marxism on the front page".

 

[Pogo]

"...fascists often found common ground with the church; or at least managed to organize a degree of compliance."

Highly misleading and unfair to sneak that in there as though an example here or there allows one to use such a phrase as "often."

Yes, there may have reasons for churches (catholic or protestant) to acquiesce to the demands of the state, but more for the sake of avoiding total obliteration. IOW, they had little choice. But to suggest they had "common ground" implies their values or ideologies often coincided. That is a very demagogic and unjust. (imo)

The Church after all represents Power. As the "First Estate" it was a major part of the power structure that Liberalism rose up against in its desire to assign power to the consent of the goverened. Fascism, taking the opposite, top-down approach, loves any avenue to consolidate power, as it loves appeals to nationalistic tradition and militaristic strength. Fascist Germany called the former "Kinder, Küche, Kirche -- children, kithen, church". Obviously it was interested in keeping the citizenry tied to the Church, as being under the psychological thumb of the Church gets the masses used to being subjugated, and given a working relationship serves as a non-governmental PR front.

These are all avenues to its own control dynamic. An organised Church has the same top-down desire for influence, even using a figurehead it purports to be omnipowerful. So yes there is much affinity there, so it would be unexpected for a fascist movement to NOT see such an institution as a useful ally -- unless it got to the point of competing with it.

Christianity by and large, and the Catholic Church and all its teachings, are in total opposition to what Fascism imposes on those they rule. Your example of Fascist Germany fails. I get their motivations, but their actions and beliefs are totally anti-God.

Irrelevant. We're not talking about Christianity or religion -- we're talking about the Church. Significant difference. The way I see it, religion is about spirituality, while organized religion is about power. Religion is a concept; it exists in the mind. "The Church" is an institution. It exists in buildings and structures and hierarchies, and like any institution, has its own power channels and inevitably, corruption.

And where is communism and ally of religion?

That goes all the way back to the biblical Book of Acts and other allusions to wealth hierarchy peppered throughout the New Testament. There's a vibrant and prolific community of Hutterites still practicing Acts-based communism to this day; they've been doing it for five hundred years. Then there were numerous movements especially in the 19th century some of which (e.g. Amana colonies) were pointedly religion-based. By the time Marx and Engels came along with their version it was not at all a new idea.

Christian communism

Herein perhaps lies the obvious contrast: Christian-based communism is not at all interested in amassing authoritarian power; the Church, as an institution, always is. Again, one of the obvious ways Nazi Fascism opposed communism. The former is all about centralised power; the latter is the polar opposite.

Well since you seem to believe the pope and the hierarchy of the Catholic Church's main focus is power and not the salvation of souls and charity to their fellow man, there is no point in going further into greater details or differences of opinions. I totally reject your premise.

Of course it is. How obvious does it need to be? What do you think the Crusades were about? What do you think "witch" burnings were about? What do you think the entire institution of the First Estate and the Divine Right of Kings was about? ""Saving souls"? Don't think so.

And for you further to suggest what the Bible teaches about being sharing wealth with the poor or the village has some strong resemblance to what ANY communist nation has done to its own subjects or its neigbors in the last 100 years, again, forget it. This is nonsense to me.

That's impossible. I'm not aware of any communist nation-states. Not as a political entity; only "nations" as social/religious groups. This kinda brings us back to that lame argument that Hitler was "lefist" because his political party had the word "socialist" in it.

 

[2aguy]

What do you think the Crusades were about?

They were a defensive move against muslim invasions of Europe and the Holy Land...you do realize that the Muslims conquered Spain and invaded France 50 years before the first crusade...right?

 

[Pogo]

Look at all the Progressive Big Lies: Hitler was a Conservative, McCarthy started a "Red Scare", FDR saved the country from capitalism, LBJ was a Civil Right Hero

They thrive on Big Lies

McCarthy didn't start the Red Scare; indeed he never had an original idea in his life. He piled on to existing hysteria and took it to überhysteria. McCarthy was a naked opportunist, his every deceitful move designed to amass more personal power, certainly including his piling-on Red Scare pandering. In that sense he's much more like Hitler.

In fact, do you know what the only book McCarthy ever read was? Mein Kampf. True story, a borrowed copy from his pal Urban van Susteren (if the last name sounds familiar it's because his daughter Greta works for Fox Noise).

 

[Pogo]

liberals are left wing and spied for Hitler and Stalin which makes liberals left wing.

Thank you. When I see a line that's even more moronic than one running in my sig line, I'm happy to download the latest downgrade.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Look at all the Progressive Big Lies: Hitler was a Conservative, McCarthy started a "Red Scare", FDR saved the country from capitalism, LBJ was a Civil Right Hero

They thrive on Big Lies

McCarthy didn't start the Red Scare; indeed he never had an original idea in his life. He piled on to existing hysteria and took it to überhysteria. McCarthy was a naked opportunist, his every deceitful move designed to amass more personal power, certainly including his piling-on Red Scare pandering. In that sense he's much more like Hitler.

In fact, do you know what the only book McCarthy ever read was? Mein Kampf. True story, a borrowed copy from his pal Urban van Susteren (if the last name sounds familiar it's because his daughter Greta works for Fox Noise).

McCarthy vastly understated the extend to which the FDR and Truman White House reported to Stalin

 

[regent]

Look at all the Progressive Big Lies: Hitler was a Conservative, McCarthy started a "Red Scare", FDR saved the country from capitalism, LBJ was a Civil Right Hero

They thrive on Big Lies

McCarthy didn't start the Red Scare; indeed he never had an original idea in his life. He piled on to existing hysteria and took it to überhysteria. McCarthy was a naked opportunist, his every deceitful move designed to amass more personal power, certainly including his piling-on Red Scare pandering. In that sense he's much more like Hitler.

In fact, do you know what the only book McCarthy ever read was? Mein Kampf. True story, a borrowed copy from his pal Urban van Susteren (if the last name sounds familiar it's because his daughter Greta works for Fox Noise).

McCarthy vastly understated the extend to which the FDR and Truman White House reported to Stalin

Was McCarthy part of the communist party? I mean McCarthy took a position that he was exposing communism and then made a number of people realize that he was an idiot and therefore the whole anti-communism thing might be a farce. Why did he make anti-communism program sound so foolish and why did the Republican party let him?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Look at all the Progressive Big Lies: Hitler was a Conservative, McCarthy started a "Red Scare", FDR saved the country from capitalism, LBJ was a Civil Right Hero

They thrive on Big Lies

McCarthy didn't start the Red Scare; indeed he never had an original idea in his life. He piled on to existing hysteria and took it to überhysteria. McCarthy was a naked opportunist, his every deceitful move designed to amass more personal power, certainly including his piling-on Red Scare pandering. In that sense he's much more like Hitler.

In fact, do you know what the only book McCarthy ever read was? Mein Kampf. True story, a borrowed copy from his pal Urban van Susteren (if the last name sounds familiar it's because his daughter Greta works for Fox Noise).

McCarthy vastly understated the extend to which the FDR and Truman White House reported to Stalin

Was McCarthy part of the communist party? I mean McCarthy took a position that he was exposing communism and then made a number of people realize that he was an idiot and therefore the whole anti-communism thing might be a farce. Why did he make anti-communism program sound so foolish and why did the Republican party let him?

Can you name one innocent person accused by McCarthy?

Like I said, he vastly understated the extent to which Communists infiltrated the US government

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

liberals are left wing and spied for Hitler and Stalin which makes liberals left wing.

Thank you. When I see a line that's even more moronic than one running in my sig line, I'm happy to download the latest downgrade.

Obama is liberal, had 3 communist parents and voted to left of Bernie Sanders, the only open communist in the Senate.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Can you name one innocent person accused by McCarthy?

Like I said, he vastly understated the extent to which Communists infiltrated the US government

yes spying for Stalin and giving the worlds most evil man the bomb was not enough to concern liberals...becuase they loved Stalin at the very time his liberal programs were slowly staving 60 million to death.!

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Look at all the Progressive Big Lies: Hitler was a Conservative, McCarthy started a "Red Scare", FDR saved the country from capitalism, LBJ was a Civil Right Hero

They thrive on Big Lies

McCarthy didn't start the Red Scare; indeed he never had an original idea in his life. He piled on to existing hysteria and took it to überhysteria. McCarthy was a naked opportunist, his every deceitful move designed to amass more personal power, certainly including his piling-on Red Scare pandering. In that sense he's much more like Hitler.

In fact, do you know what the only book McCarthy ever read was? Mein Kampf. True story, a borrowed copy from his pal Urban van Susteren (if the last name sounds familiar it's because his daughter Greta works for Fox Noise).

McCarthy vastly understated the extend to which the FDR and Truman White House reported to Stalin

Was McCarthy part of the communist party? I mean McCarthy took a position that he was exposing communism and then made a number of people realize that he was an idiot and therefore the whole anti-communism thing might be a farce. Why did he make anti-communism program sound so foolish and why did the Republican party let him?

Can you name one innocent person accused by McCarthy?

Like I said, he vastly understated the extent to which Communists infiltrated the US government

Start here: Victims of McCarthyism

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

yes spying for Stalin and giving the worlds most evil man the bomb was not enough to concern liberals...becuase they loved Stalin at the very time his liberal programs were slowly staving 60 million to death.!

[/QUOTE]

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Why did he make anti-communism program sound so foolish and why did the Republican party let him?

dear anti communism or anti liberalism was not foolish given that Stalin was slowly starving 60 million to death.

Imagine how perfectly stupid and evil the liberal has to be to not care, even today.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

McCarthy vastly understated the extend to which the FDR and Truman White House reported to Stalin

this is true Stalin was slowly starving 60 million to death and liberals still loved him. Today's liberals are the same as you can see by the way they still defend Stalin and attack McCarthy.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

McCarthy didn't start the Red Scare; indeed he never had an original idea in his life. He piled on to existing hysteria and took it to überhysteria. .

liberals loved that Stalin was slowly killing 60 million and that they had given him the bomb!! To liberals and Nazis it was a joyful time, not a time for uberhysteria.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Start here: Victims of McCarthyism

dear, cut the BS and give us the most important victim or admit you lack the IQ to be here.

 

[Pogo]

Look at all the Progressive Big Lies: Hitler was a Conservative, McCarthy started a "Red Scare", FDR saved the country from capitalism, LBJ was a Civil Right Hero

They thrive on Big Lies

McCarthy didn't start the Red Scare; indeed he never had an original idea in his life. He piled on to existing hysteria and took it to überhysteria. McCarthy was a naked opportunist, his every deceitful move designed to amass more personal power, certainly including his piling-on Red Scare pandering. In that sense he's much more like Hitler.

In fact, do you know what the only book McCarthy ever read was? Mein Kampf. True story, a borrowed copy from his pal Urban van Susteren (if the last name sounds familiar it's because his daughter Greta works for Fox Noise).

McCarthy vastly understated the extend to which the FDR and Truman White House reported to Stalin

Was McCarthy part of the communist party? I mean McCarthy took a position that he was exposing communism and then made a number of people realize that he was an idiot and therefore the whole anti-communism thing might be a farce. Why did he make anti-communism program sound so foolish and why did the Republican party let him?

It isn't like the entire party acquiesced, to be fair. Eisenhower considered him toxic. Margaret Chase Smith stepped up to the plate and openly questioned the entire bait --

>> I speak as a Republican. I speak as a woman. I speak as a United States Senator. I speak as an American.
...
It is ironical that we Senators can in debate in the Senate directly or indirectly, by any form of words, impute to any American who is not a Senator any conduct or motive unworthy or unbecoming an American -- and without that non-Senator American having any legal redress against us -- yet if we say the same thing in the Senate about our colleagues we can be stopped on the grounds of being out of order.
...
I think that it is high time for the United States Senate and its members to do some soul-searching -- for us to weigh our consciences -- on the manner in which we are performing our duty to the people of America -- on the manner in which we are using or abusing our individual powers and privileges.

I think that it is high time that we remembered that we have sworn to uphold and defend the Constitution. I think that it is high time that we remembered that the Constitution, as amended, speaks not only of the freedom of speech but also of trial by jury instead of trial by accusation. Whether it be a criminal prosecution in court or a character prosecution in the Senate, there is little practical distinction when the life of a person has been ruined.

Those of us who shout the loudest about Americanism in making character assassinations are all too frequently those who, by our own words and acts, ignore some of the basic principles of Americanism:

• The right to criticize;
• The right to hold unpopular beliefs;
• The right to protest;
• The right of independent thought.

The exercise of these rights should not cost one single American citizen his reputation or his right to a livelihood nor should he be in danger of losing his reputation or livelihood merely because he happens to know someone who holds unpopular beliefs. Who of us doesn’t? Otherwise none of us could call our souls our own. Otherwise thought control would have set in.

The American people are sick and tired of being afraid to speak their minds lest they be politically smeared as "Communists" or "Fascists" by their opponents. Freedom of speech is not what it used to be in America. It has been so abused by some that it is not exercised by others.
...
As an American, I am shocked at the way Republicans and Democrats alike are playing directly into the Communist design of "confuse, divide and conquer." As an American, I don't want a Democratic Administration "white wash" or "cover up" any more than I want a Republican smear or witch hunt.

As an American, I condemn a Republican "Fascist" just as much as I condemn a Democrat "Communist." I condemn a Democrat "fascist" just as much as I condemn a Republican "Communist." They are equally dangerous to you and me and to our country. As an American, I want to see our nation recapture the strength and unity it once had when we fought the enemy instead of ourselves. <<

-- "Declaration of Conscience", June 1 1950, less than four months after McCarthy's infamous Wheeling speech in which he declared "I have in my hand a list of (pick a number, it changed in every version), which, whatever was in his hand, was never actually shown to anybody.
​

Here was one Republican -- and she named others at the end -- who had the cojones to stand on principles instead of a pandering bandwagon.

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

Start here: Victims of McCarthyism

dear, cut the BS and give us the most important victim or admit you lack the IQ to be here.

Nailed it!

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

, which, whatever was in his hand, was never actually shown to anybody.

​

of course if McCarthy had nothing the liberals would not have taken the 5th and McCarthy would have had no power whatsoever.

See why we are positive that liberalism is based in pure ignorance?

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

McCarthy had tons of power precisely because he was making the liberal Nazis run for cover!!