hey dems ! you voted for socialism !

[otto105]

There's always a choice. Never a good reason to vote for a bad candidate on purpose. That ill-logic is killing us. It's the reason why our parties nominate worse and worse candidates every cycle.

And this cycle it's the orange cult on their knees for orange leader bad decision.

 

[Kondor3]

Could you translate that into English, please?

By serving-up Rump a second time you left a lot of us with no other choice but to vote for over-the-hill placeholder.

 

[Kondor3]

There's always a choice.

Indeed. In the case of the 2020 election there were two very BAD choices. One MUCH worse than the other.

Never a good reason to vote for a bad candidate on purpose.

If there are only two you end-up voting for the less-bad (least-dangerous or likely to do harm) of the two stinkers.

Third-parties and write-ins are just a waste of ink and a vote.

That ill-logic is killing us.

Then we need to stop serving-up dual Bad Choices, don't we? However, while dual Bad Choices are ALL we have to vote for...

It's the reason why our parties nominate worse and worse candidates every cycle.

Nolo contendre.

So what's the "fix"?

 

[dblack]

Indeed. In the case of the 2020 election there were two very BAD choices. One MUCH worse than the other.

If there are only two you end-up voting for the less-bad (least-dangerous or likely to do harm) of the two stinkers.

Third-parties and write-ins are just a waste of ink and a vote.

Not nearly as wasteful as voting for a bad candidate on purpose.

Then we need to stop serving-up dual Bad Choices, don't we? However, while dual Bad Choices are ALL we have to vote for...

You'll just keep falling for it?

So what's the "fix"?

First, we have to grow a pair and say "no".

Ranked choice voting will prevent us getting into this situation in the future, but the two shit parties won't allow that until we reject them outright.

 

[otto105]

I disagree that the election of 2020 had two bad candidates.

It had one who over the four previous years showed that he was a bad president.

The other promised to be a normal president and get things done.

 

[Kondor3]

Not nearly as wasteful as voting for a bad candidate on purpose.

Truly "debatable".

You'll just keep falling for it?

More like participating despite being cognizant of the situation.

First, we have to grow a pair and say "no".

Lead the way.

Ranked choice voting will prevent us getting into this situation in the future, but the two shit parties won't allow that until we reject them outright.

How does an election look with no winners?

 

[dblack]

How does an election look with no winners?

Beats me. Do you have a point?

 

[Kondor3]

Beats me. Do you have a point?

Indeed.

You called for us to "outright reject them" in that post.

And I then asked how that would look... how that works... if we all "reject them" and nobody wins such an election.

I had thought that the connection to be obvious... guess I was wrong... but the (revised, clarified) question stands.

Frankly, the mechanisms for outright rejection aren't there... if even one person votes, the result will decide who gets the power, yes?

 

[dblack]

Indeed.

You called for us to "outright reject them" in that post.

And I then asked how that would look... how that works... if we all "reject them" and nobody wins such an election.

Why would no one win? By rejecting them, I mean vote for someone else.

Frankly, the mechanisms for outright rejection aren't there... if even one person votes, the result will decide who gets the power, yes?

I'm saying Ds and Rs won't change the voting system themselves. The only way they'll change is if we stop voting for them. As more and more of us do that, they'll either change their tune, or another party will replace them.

The way I see it, we're fixated on this idea that it's some kind of privilege to choose which of two crappy candidates is elected. If both are crappy, I don't care which one wins. I'd rather cast my vote for someone decent and build support for a real alternative. Even if it doesn't pay off this election, it will influence the next.

If we just keep doing the same thing, keep playing the same game over and over again, it will just continue to get worse.

 

[Kondor3]

Why would no one win? By rejecting them, I mean vote for someone else.

Acknowledged.

I'm saying Ds and Rs won't change the voting system themselves. The only way they'll change is if we stop voting for them. As more and more of us do that, they'll either change their tune, or another party will replace them.

The way I see it, we're fixated on this idea that it's some kind of privilege to choose which of two crappy candidates is elected. If both are crappy, I don't care which one wins. I'd rather cast my vote for someone decent and build support for a real alternative. Even if it doesn't pay off this election, it will influence the next.

If we just keep doing the same thing, keep playing the same game over and over again, it will just continue to get worse.

I hear what you're saying and there is merit in the idea but I do not believe it is an achievable goal.

Not without a central focal point to inspire and coordinate such an effort, anyway.

The only kind of "critter" that would pass the "sniff test" for such a purpose would be a Third Party.

So far that idea hasn't been able to get much traction... perhaps that will change, given enough media coverage.

 

[dblack]

Acknowledged.

I hear what you're saying and there is merit in the idea but I do not believe it is an achievable goal.

Not without a central focal point to inspire and coordinate such an effort, anyway.

The only kind of "critter" that would pass the "sniff test" for such a purpose would be a Third Party.

So far that idea hasn't been able to get much traction... perhaps that will change, given enough media coverage.

I won't change until we change it - by voting different.

 

[Kondor3]

I won't change until we change it - by voting different.

Agreed.

But how does one send-out the call and coordinate such an effort on a scale large enough to actually succeed?

Left uncoordinated, we're looking at a tiny volume that stands little-or-no chance of every achieving your goal.

 

[dblack]

But how does one send-out the call and coordinate such an effort on a scale large enough to actually succeed?

That's what I'm trying to do here. But it will take time. I keep thinking that, finally, Biden vs Trump is such a dismal choice people will be ready to break out. But they're trapped by the irrational notion that a vote for someone who doesn't win is a wasted vote.

Left uncoordinated, we're looking at a tiny volume that stands little-or-no chance of every achieving your goal.

Probably not in one election. But the goal isn't necessarily to get a third party elected. Declining voter support will likely prompt one or both of the majors to change their tune, to actually listen to the voters who are looking elsewhere. But if we just keep voting for them regardless, all they will hear is "You're doing great, keep it up!"

 

[dblack]

Kondor3 - to continue, I think a large part of the problem is that people think voting for the lesser of two evils will stem the tide, delaying a supposed downfall of the country. But voting for a bad candidate, even if they are on "your side", only hastens the downfall. It doesn't win people over to your way of thinking, it only provides them with more evidence that "your side" elects shitty leaders.

 

[Kondor3]

Kondor3 - to continue, I think a large part of the problem is that people think voting for the lesser of two evils will stem the tide, delaying a supposed downfall of the country. But voting for a bad candidate, even if they are on "your side", only hastens the downfall. It doesn't win people over to your way of thinking, it only provides them with more evidence that "your side" elects shitty leaders.

I see merit in this observation. I disagree that a "downfall" is anywhere near Reality yet but I DO see your point.

 

[dblack]

I see merit in this observation. I disagree that a "downfall" is anywhere near Reality yet but I DO see your point.

Agreed - the downfall scenario is what they sell us. "If you don't vote for Trump, Democrats will destroy society!" or "If you don't vote for Biden, we'll descend into fascism!"

 

[bripat9643]

And this cycle it's the orange cult on their knees for orange leader bad decision.

Biden is the worst possible decision, dumbass. Preferring Biden over Trump is a sure sign of brain damage.

 

[bripat9643]

Agreed - the downfall scenario is what they sell us. "If you don't vote for Trump, Democrats will destroy society!" or "If you don't vote for Biden, we'll descend into fascism!"

And we are.

 

[otto105]

Biden is the worst possible decision, dumbass. Preferring Biden over Trump is a sure sign of brain damage.

Suck harder sycophant you signed the oath.

 

[bripat9643]

By serving-up Rump a second time you left a lot of us with no other choice but to vote for over-the-hill placeholder.

You just proved that voting Trump isn't the dumbest thing a person could have done.