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‘Hero’ Bystander Shot Cop-Killer Dead — And Was Then Killed By Another Officer, Police Say

Anathema

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But when another officer rushed in to respond ....................

Yeah, the guy likely had all day to pull out his cell phone and do all of this
If there were already other officers on the scene he was wrong to have pulled his gun out to begin with. ESPECIALLY if he hadn’t been able to identify himself to the officers ahead of time.
 

pknopp

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But when another officer rushed in to respond ....................

Yeah, the guy likely had all day to pull out his cell phone and do all of this
If there were already other officers on the scene he was wrong to have pulled his gun out to begin with. ESPECIALLY if he hadn’t been able to identify himself to the officers ahead of time.

He did EXACTLY what proponents of carry argue for. Besides, he was shot for taking the gun of the other guy. You don't want to leave it with him not knowing if he is actually dead or not.
 

Anathema

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He did EXACTLY what proponents of carry argue for. Besides, he was shot for taking the gun of the other guy. You don't want to leave it with him not knowing if he is actually dead or not.
No, he did NOT do exactly what proponents of concealed carry argue for. I know because I’m one of those proponents.

As I noted in my prior posts, if the cops are already there you can’t intervene. If you do, things like this happen.
 

pknopp

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He did EXACTLY what proponents of carry argue for. Besides, he was shot for taking the gun of the other guy. You don't want to leave it with him not knowing if he is actually dead or not.
No, he did NOT do exactly what proponents of concealed carry argue for. I know because I’m one of those proponents.

As I noted in my prior posts, if the cops are already there you can’t intervene. If you do, things like this happen.

The cop that was there was shot dead.
 

Anathema

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The cop that was there was shot dead
Didn’t you comment earlier thst the citizen didn’t/wouldn’t have had time to call police and identify himself because more cops were already there when he shot the suspect? Which is it?

In a situation where officers are already on scene , a smart CCW holder does not get involved unless there is no other option and/or he has already identified himself to the officers on scene.

If there are no officers on scene, then the civilian gun owner needs to make their presence and lack of threat known to responding officers as soon as they arrive, if not before they arrive.

In either case, they should not be interfering with evidence. Especially not items that might lead officers to confuse them with the suspect.
 

pknopp

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The cop that was there was shot dead
Didn’t you comment earlier thst the citizen didn’t/wouldn’t have had time to call police and identify himself because more cops were already there when he shot the suspect? Which is it?

In a situation where officers are already on scene , a smart CCW holder does not get involved unless there is no other option and/or he has already identified himself to the officers on scene.

If there are no officers on scene, then the civilian gun owner needs to make their presence and lack of threat known to responding officers as soon as they arrive, if not before they arrive.

In either case, they should not be interfering with evidence. Especially not items that might lead officers to confuse them with the suspect.

You can respond to the post I made or just go ahead and start a new one and make words up for me.
 

Fort Fun Indiana

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Here is the thing.

If you are "the good guy" using a gun...when cops arrive on scene they see you with a gun and BANG
Right, that's the risk. And it risks the lives of others when the cops shoot and miss.

And what if there are two of you? Three? How do you know not to start shooting at each other? How do the cops know who is the criminal and who isn't? Are all of you trained well enough not to create a crossfire that injures innocent people? What if an innocent person thinks you are the gunman, and attacks you?
 

2aguy

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Lesh...

If you are "the good guy" using a gun...when cops arrive on scene they see you with a gun and BANG

You mean except this rarely if ever happens....

Like this....black man holding white car jacker at gun point...police arrive, they don't shoot the black guy, and then shake his hand...

 

2aguy

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Here is the thing.

If you are "the good guy" using a gun...when cops arrive on scene they see you with a gun and BANG
Right, that's the risk. And it risks the lives of others when the cops shoot and miss.

And what if there are two of you? Three? How do you know not to start shooting at each other? How do the cops know who is the criminal and who isn't? Are all of you trained well enough not to create a crossfire that injures innocent people? What if an innocent person thinks you are the gunman, and attacks you?


And yet....in actual situations this doesn't happen...the Gabby Gifford's shooting for one......two concealed carry gun owners on the scene, one saw the other with his gun out, told him to put his gun down since he didn't know who he was....and neither one was shot..

You guys make things up out of your ass, not related to truth, facts or reality, and you aren't going to be allowed to get away with it.....
 

2aguy

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Here is the thing.

If you are "the good guy" using a gun...when cops arrive on scene they see you with a gun and BANG


Except this isn't the case.....for example...

Black guy holds white car jacker at gun point....the police roll up......don't shoot the black guy with the gun, and even shake his hand....



 

2aguy

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Here is the thing.

If you are "the good guy" using a gun...when cops arrive on scene they see you with a gun and BANG
Right, that's the risk. And it risks the lives of others when the cops shoot and miss.

And what if there are two of you? Three? How do you know not to start shooting at each other? How do the cops know who is the criminal and who isn't? Are all of you trained well enough not to create a crossfire that injures innocent people? What if an innocent person thinks you are the gunman, and attacks you?


Easy formula....if the guy in front of you isn't shooting innocent men, women and children, you don't shoot them.........we saw this at the Gifford's shooting and we see it at other mass public shootings.......and other cases where law abiding gun owners use their guns to save lives....

Armed Citizens Are Successful 94% Of The Time At Active Shooter Events [FBI]

Of all the active shooter events there were 33 at which an armed citizen was present. Of those, Armed Citizens were successful at stopping the Active shooter 75.8% of the time (25 incidents) and were successful in reducing the loss of life in an additional 18.2% (6) of incidents. In only 2 of the 33 incidents (6.1%) was the Armed Citizen(s) not helpful in any way in stopping the active shooter or reducing the loss of life.

Thus the headline of our report that Armed Citizens Are Successful 94% Of The Time At Active Shooter Events.


In the 2 incidents at which the armed citizen “failed” to stop or slow the active shooter, one is the previously mentioned incident with hunters. The other is an incident in which the CCWer was shot in the back in a Las Vegas Walmart when he failed to identify that there were 2 Active Shooters involved in the attack. He neglected to identify the one that shot him in the back while he was trying to ambush the other perpetrator.

We also decided to look at the breakdown of events that took place in gun free zones and the relative death toll from events in gun free zones vs non-gun-free zones.

Of the 283 incidents in our data pool, we were unable to identify if the event took place in a gun-free zone in a large number (41%) of the events. Most of the events took place at a business, church, home, or other places at which as a rule of law it is not a gun free zone but potentially could have been declared one by the property owner. Without any information in the FBI study or any indication one way or the other from the news reports, we have indicated that event with a question mark.

If you look at all of the Active Shooter events (pie chart on the top) you see that for those which we have the information, almost twice as many took place in gun free zones than not; but realistically the vast majority of those for which we have no information (indicated as ?) are probably NOT gun free zones.

If you isolate just the events at which 8 or more people were killed the data paints a different picture (pie chart on the bottom). In these incidents, 77.8% took place in a gun-free zone suggesting that gun free zones lead to a higher death rate vs active shooter events in general

=====

One of the final metrics we thought was important to consider is the potential tendency for armed citizens to injure or kill innocent people in their attempt to “save the day.” A common point in political discussions is to point out the lack of training of most armed citizens and the decrease in safety inherent in their presence during violent encounters.

As you can see below, however, at the 33 incidents at which Armed Citizens were present, there were zero situations at which the Armed Citizen injured or killed an innocent person. It never happened.


BREAKING: Man Opens Fire At Oklahoma Walmart, Confronted By Armed Citizen, Report Says

Two people were killed at a Walmart in Oklahoma by a man who opened fire in the parking lot on Monday before turning the weapon on himself after an armed citizen confronted him.
------


The assailant, who has not yet been identified, shot and killed a man and a woman in the parking lot and when he was “confronted by an armed citizen, he then turned the gun on himself,” The Daily Mail reported.
 

Fort Fun Indiana

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And yet....in actual situations this doesn't happen.
Maybe in your alternate universe. In this one, this sort of situation makes the news a couple times a year. Including the events that prompted this thread.

Just making up blatant lies doesn't really help your position.
 

2aguy

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And yet....in actual situations this doesn't happen.
Maybe in your alternate universe. In this one, this sort of situation makes the news a couple times a year. Including the events that prompted this thread.

Just making up blatant lies doesn't really help your position.


I give you facts and truth, you come back with nothing........

Americans use their legal guns 1.1 million times a year to stop rapes, beatings, knifings, robberies and murders...according to the Centers for Disease Control.......the stories I have listed over and over again of people using their legal guns to stop these attacks, and not getting shot when the police arrive are massive....

You have to lie, the facts, truth and reality do not support your desire to take guns away from normal people.
 

Dont Taz Me Bro

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Wow, what a sad story. Good guy with a gun killed by police. What do you think?
I think the guy was an idiot for picking up the shooter's gun. Why on Earth would he have done that?
 

2aguy

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Wow, what a sad story. Good guy with a gun killed by police. What do you think?
I think the guy was an idiot for picking up the shooter's gun. Why on Earth would he have done that?


Yeah....a fatal mistake. I can see kicking it away from the body to make sure he was actually out of the fight, but picking it up...

It doesn't excuse the cop shooting him though..........I don't blame the cop, but did he address the guy before he started shooting?
 

Dont Taz Me Bro

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Yeah....a fatal mistake. I can see kicking it away from the body to make sure he was actually out of the fight, but picking it up...

It doesn't excuse the cop shooting him though..........I don't blame the cop, but did he address the guy before he started shooting?
Everyone can argue back and forth all day long about whether the cop who shot him should have said something first (do we know for sure he didn't?), but the bottom line is he responded to a call where another cop had already been shot dead and he sees a man holding a gun standing next to another dead man. What conclusion would you obviously draw?
 

2aguy

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Yeah....a fatal mistake. I can see kicking it away from the body to make sure he was actually out of the fight, but picking it up...

It doesn't excuse the cop shooting him though..........I don't blame the cop, but did he address the guy before he started shooting?
Everyone can argue back and forth all day long about whether the cop who shot him should have said something first (do we know for sure he didn't?), but the bottom line is he responded to a call where another cop had already been shot dead and he sees a man holding a gun standing next to another dead man. What conclusion would you obviously draw?


True...which is why I don't blame the cop.......at the same time, as a cop, you are required to order the suspect to put the weapon down....especially if the guy isn't shooting at the time you arrive........
 

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