Hello form Turkey

[ekrem]

Hello,

introduce first: I'm a turk and are very angry how the bilateral situation between USA and Turkey is.

Turkey participates in the so-called war-on-terrorism around the world. And turkish soldiers are beside american and nato-soldiers worldwide in this war.

Turkeys parliament did not agreed on 1 March 2003 to let US-led Coalition forces use Turkey as Attackground.
This was shoking. nobody expected that this resoolution wouldnt pass the turkish parliament. This resolution failed to pass because of 3 Seator-voices. SO: this resolution failed only because of 3 voices that missed.
Again, this was unexpected.
Turkey then offered Bush to take the the Resolution 2 weeks later again to the parliament. This time the resolution would have passed.
But Bush disagreed and attacked immediately Iraq.

This was the beginnnig of a new Cold-War between Turkey and America.

Turkey and USA are allied Nato-forces. But America arrested around 15 Turkish soldiers in North-Iraq. America treated them as Terrorists, putting them bags over the head and knotted their hands.
The turkish nation is throughout history a militaristic nation, our Nation was build through Generals 80 years ago.
The people are the army....
Pissing on Turkish soldiers means pissing on the turkish nation.


Do not misunderstand me: we are not a dictatorship or so. The turkish army is the most trusted and respected Organisation in Turkey by turkish people. This is fact.

So do not put us in the same corner as the arabs, we are a western-oriented Nation. Turks generally don't like arabs and persians. I had to mention this, because i do not really know how much america is influenced since 9/11 by the Religion Christ.



So, the PKK-war has cost Turkey over 100 billion Dollar to fight. Turkey defeated PKK on turkish territory. PKK is a Terrorist Organisation. An Organisation, which is named Terrorist by the US-Administration, too.
In Turkey there are no PKK-Fighters anymore. PKK fled into North-Iraq. They have there 9 terrorist Camps and there main-camp is on the Kandil-Mountain in North-Iraq...
PKK is sickering again into turkey and bombs everywhere. They captured an Army-Soldier, are bombing in Tourist-regions and so on... Many are dying again, and it harms Turkeys tourist-industry.

Now let me say it clear. America as an Occupation-Force in Iraq is responsible from attacks to turkey from this occupied territory.
More than 2 years Turkey is begging America to bomb this PKK-Terrororganistation. An Organisation which is considered Terrorist by USA, too....
But it comes always the same answer: "We have no capacities to bomb PKK..."

More than 2 Years over, and not only 1 single PKK-Terrorist is killed by american-Forces...
I do not want to discuss why america isn't doing anything against PKK... The Kurds are their new Allies, and Kurds are against bombing PKK... Also the 1 March Parliament decision is responsible for this american behaviour. Rumsfeld said: " Turkey is responsible for dead american Soldiers" in a TV-Show.
Is this a taken revenge by America?


I thought, The world is on fight on terrorism?

Turkey is the second largest Nato-Army... We do not need GIs to do our business... In Europe there is a famous German Turkey-Analyst, Peter Scholl-Latour. This man says: " Turkish Army is in 2 hours in Bagdad"...

We can do the business on our own, but general Myers says: "If turkey wants to do a cross-border Operation, the sovereign Iraq would have say much"... In Other words: America is punishing Turkey for the 1 March decision... I want to ask General Myers, what sovereign Iraq said, as GIs conquered Iraq?


The turkish nation doesn't want to take this american game anymore. Our generals are running crazy.
Imagine this: GIs come from the other side of the world to attack terrorist Iraq... And turkey isn't allowed to cross the border... Although PKK is a recognized Terror-Organisation by America...

This was very dumb. America is loosing turkish nation. a friendship which began with the Korean-war and lasted till 1 March 2003.
In Turkish nation public there is discussed to withdraw all turkish NATO-Forces which are worldwide on fight on terrorism...
Why turkish Soldiers have to risk their lives in Afghanistan to fight Terrorism, when America does't fight anti-turkish Terrorists in Iraq?


America must act. Immediately. Turkish Nation will do everythhing which falls on them. If America isn't willing to fight PKK, turkish army will nevertheless cross this Iraq-border and will peace this region. A region where attacks to turkish territory come. This is no joke. Our Generals are running crazy. PKK-Terrorism is Number one topic in Turkish media an d public.


In the past, i was very pro-American... This changed. I do not see US administration as freinds anymore... The only friend Turkey in this region has is Israel. Israel is our Ally which isn't America anymore.
The turkish-american friendship as it was before 1 March 2003 is over.
We are a vital Nation with an indepedently Foreign Policy...
America is now our border-neighbour, and america does politics against turkish foreign policy. We have become rivals.
Sad, but so it is.

And once more, do not take this wirtings as islamic sh*t. We turks seperate Reliogion and politics. Religion is every mans private thing. But not turkish state's thing. So take these writings as politics.

 

[archangel]

And once more, do not take this wirtings as islamic sh*t. We turks seperate Reliogion and politics. Religion is every mans private thing. But not turkish state's thing. So take these writings as politics.

however remember the Ottoman Empire...1000-1300 ad...maybe this makes us suspicious...History 101...ring a bell?

 

[ekrem]

sorry, but i do not understand

 

[Mr. P]

Welcome, canavar...and salute :finger:

 

[dmp]

in spite of what you think about my government, you'd be welcome at my dinner table any time.

Cheers, and welcome to the message board.

-darin

 

[ekrem]

thank you all, for your warm welcome...
do not misunderstand me: I'm am not anti-american. but i am very disappointed of things going on which changed my view of America being an ally and friend to turkish nation...

So... Does anybody know the book :" Metal storm (turkish: Metal firtina) ???

this book was 6 months ago the bestseller in turkish book-market...

This book tells a Tom Clancy something story... In this book, America prepares from Iraq an attack to turkey... no joke, and this book was a bestseller...



This book has made big waves in turkish society even a.d. Generals talking in TV-shows about this book... One famous turkish 4-star a.d. General said in a Talkshow:

"the 2 turkish authors of this book are paid by CIA. They told in their book that america was conquering Turkey in just 2 weeks.. (General laughed) CIA wants to create a scenario in this book to propaganda turkish nation... Such like: don't mess with uncle sam or your nation is being conquered within 2 weeks"...


But this book had an 180 degree other effect.

 

[archangel]

sorry, but i do not understand

have become suspicious of all Islamic Nations or those that support such..ie: going back in history to the Ottoman push to take over Europe...it started innocently enough then escalated into full blown Religious wars as evidenced by the Crusades...we do not trust those that claim to be a peaceful religion...then go about with the 7th century philosophy of eliminating anyone who is opposed to Islam...al Zarqawi is a prime example...he took his start in Iraq up north around the Kurdish areas..then moved south to increase mayhem...ie:7th century beheadings of non believers!

 

[ekrem]

have become suspicious of all Islamic Nations or those that support such..ie: going back in history to the Ottoman push to take over Europe...it started innocently enough then escalated into full blown Religious wars as evidenced by the Crusades...we do not trust those that claim to be a peaceful religion...then go about with the 7th century philosophy of eliminating anyone who is opposed to Islam...al Zarqawi is a prime example...he took his start in Iraq up north around the Kurdish areas..then moved south to increase mayhem...ie:7th century beheadings of non believers!

hmm, we are talking different things...

do you know what the ideology Kemalism means? it is based on Mustafa Kemal Atatürk.

So you really want to tell me, Turkey is supporting islamic Nations? and then you talk crusades and so on...
Man, I'm not an arab. i won't say this 100 times.

and what is that with 7th century talking? in 7th century turks where in Central asia. From that central asian tribe, which let the Chinese build the Chinese wall as protection from turkish+mongolian tribes.

Turks came to Middle east much much later. Turks are not arabs.

Turks live everywhere...

Turkey-Turks, Turkmenistan, Azerbaycan, Kasakstan, Kygisistan and so on are all turkish people... we do not have blood-ties with arabs or persians.

And ottoman Empire is history. this Empire was build upon islamic views and beliefs... Modern Turkey since 1923 was build by an General named Mustafa Kemal Atatürk. His ideology is western-scientific and is called Kemalism.

 

[Zhukov]

turkish army will nevertheless cross this Iraq-border and will peace this region.

I don't think that's going to happen.

This changed. I do not see US administration as freinds anymore...

Well, despite the snub we received from you the President hasn't stopped pushing for your entrance into the E.U.

http://www.japantoday.com/e/?content=news&id=303899


Listen, all of this could have been avoided if you had got on board fully with the invasion of Iraq. The vote to co-operate failed by three votes? That's not our fault, that's your fault. It doesn't really matter how close the vote was now does it? It's not as if you sort of helped.

Since we've had to do this without you assistance, it seems fairly ridiculous for you to be upset about how we do it now.

I know you don't want to hear this, and probably don't believe it, by your country is not our country's equal. It is not our intention to ever let another country's inability to support us delay or determine our future course of action.

You failed us. Forgive us (or not) for being slightly irrate with you.

Oh, and stop abusing the Kurds. Thank you.

http://hrw.org/campaigns/turkey/kurd.htm

 

[archangel]

hmm, we are talking different things...

do you know what the ideology Kemalism means? it is based on Mustafa Kemal Atatürk.

So you really want to tell me, Turkey is supporting islamic Nations? and then you talk crusades and so on...
Man, I'm not an arab. i won't say this 100 times.

and what is that with 7th century talking? in 7th century turks where in Central asia. From that central asian tribe, which let the Chinese build the Chinese wall as protection from turkish+mongolian tribes.

Turks came to Middle east much much later. Turks are not arabs.

Turks live everywhere...

Turkey-Turks, Turkmenistan, Azerbaycan, Kasakstan, Kygisistan and so on are all turkish people... we do not have blood-ties with arabs or persians.

And ottoman Empire is history. this Empire was build upon islamic views and beliefs... Modern Turkey since 1923 was build by an General named Mustafa Kemal Atatürk. His ideology is western-scientific and is called Kemalism.

You are in fact comprehensive of History 101...and resent the Ottoman Empire take over of your country as well...I will give you credit for recognizing our similar distrust of the Arab Nations..ie:Saudi Arabia!

 

[GotZoom]

Let's also not forget your countries initial refusal to allow us to use Incirlik's airbase as a base of operation for our war against Iraq.

Yes, you changed your mind; a year later.

But I can't feel that this was because of you wanting win favor with the United States amid concerns over Iraqi-Kurdish demands for greater autonomy in oil-rich northern Iraq. It is well know that you, along with Syria and Iran, fear Iraqi Kurds might eventually push for independence and bring instability to their borders, which will affect you directly.

And welcome to the board!

 

[ekrem]

First of all, im half turkish and half kurdish... do not start with me Turkish-Kurdish discussion, i live in turkey.....
33% or more of the turkish parliament are kurdish people... the most famous singers and artists in turkey are Kurds... In our army there are 200.000 Kurds...
We had kurdish primeministers + presidents... so don't talk with me Kurdish-turkish... Among the richest men in Turkey there are several Kurds...


second... Yes, we did fail on 1 March 2003. This shocked me too. believe it or not.
So you say something like this:

Let those shitty turks die through PKK-hands, it doesn't mean anything to americans.. Allthough PKK is a Terrorist-organisation recognized as Terrorists by USA, PKK can operate against Turkey from Iraq territory which is occupied from USA ???

 

[GotZoom]

Let those shitty turks die through PKK-hands, it doesn't mean anything to americans.. Allthough PKK is a Terrorist-organisation recognized as Terrorists by USA, PKK can operate against Turkey from Iraq territory which is occupied from USA ???

Show me where anyone in the U.S. said that.

 

[ekrem]

Let's also not forget your countries initial refusal to allow us to use Incirlik's airbase as a base of operation for our war against Iraq.

Yes, you changed your mind; a year later.

But I can't feel that this was because of you wanting win favor with the United States amid concerns over Iraqi-Kurdish demands for greater autonomy in oil-rich northern Iraq. It is well know that you, along with Syria and Iran, fear Iraqi Kurds might eventually push for independence and bring instability to their borders, which will affect you directly.

And welcome to the board!

Hello, this were some really good writings by you...

Yes, Turkey only cooperates with syria and Iran because of the Kurdish-Question...

As i said, turks generally do not like Arabs and persians...
1998 Turkey was going to war on Syria because Syria gave PKK asistance to PKK-Leader Öcalan... Syria gave that help up...

There are Terroristorganizsition called Hizbullah, maybe you know... This terrororganisation is controlled by Iran, and Hizbullah killed many many Turks...
So these 2 States have turkish blood on their hands... And turkish nation will never forget this...

And America doesn't want Turkey drifting to Iran+Syria... But think of what i Said: As more the americans favour the Kurds, Turkey will drift to Iran+Syria... Wheteher turkey wants this or not... Turkey is being put to this step... think about it...

 

[Zhukov]

Allthough PKK is a Terrorist-organisation recognized as Terrorists by USA, PKK can operate against Turkey from Iraq territory which is occupied from USA ???

No, the northern area of Iraq is for the most part already controlled by the locals, our soldiers are concentrated in Sunni lands and trying to get a hold on the Syrian border.

If you had co-operated with us, perhaps you would be in charge of security up there. But you did not. We had to rely on the local kurds, and we still rely on the local kurds, to co-operate with us so we can get Iraq and it's feet and get the hell out. If that requires us to sometimes look the other way....what can I say?

Again, you could have been there. You could have been with us.

What's going on right now are direct consequences of the Turkish government's inaction and obstinance.

You can blame us if you want, but it would be neither accurate nor constructive to do so.

 

[Zhukov]

But think of what i Said: As more the americans favour the Kurds, Turkey will drift to Iran+Syria... Wheteher turkey wants this or not...

By my way of thinking that would be compunding one mistake by making another.

Syria is on the way down, and Iran is pushing it.

Your best bet would be to find a way to ingratiate yourself before us.

It's not about pride or honor. It's about doing whats right.

 

[ekrem]

No, the northern area of Iraq is for the most part already controlled by the locals, our soldiers are concentrated in Sunni lands and trying to get a hold on the Syrian border.

If you had co-operated with us, perhaps you would be in charge of security up there. But you did not. We had to rely on the local kurds, and we still rely on the local kurds, to co-operate with us so we can get Iraq and it's feet and get the hell out. If that requires us to sometimes look the other way....what can I say?

Again, you could have been there. You could have been with us.

What's going on right now are direct consequences of the Turkish government's inaction and obstinance.

You can blame us if you want, but it would be neither accurate nor constructive to do so.

turkey has offered America to deploy 10.000 terrorfighting-skilled Soldiers into sunni triangle... But Barzani+Talabani pressured USA to say no...

 

[archangel]

First of all, im half turkish and half kurdish... do not start with me Turkish-Kurdish discussion, i live in turkey.....
33% or more of the turkish parliament are kurdish people... the most famous singers and artists in turkey are Kurds... In our army there are 200.000 Kurds...
We had kurdish primeministers + presidents... so don't talk with me Kurdish-turkish... Among the richest men in Turkey there are several Kurds...


second... Yes, we did fail on 1 March 2003. This shocked me too. believe it or not.
So you say something like this:

Let those shitty turks die through PKK-hands, it doesn't mean anything to americans.. Allthough PKK is a Terrorist-organisation recognized as Terrorists by USA, PKK can operate against Turkey from Iraq territory which is occupied from USA ???

if y'all want to debate the politics of war and terrorism...I am all for it...however if ya want to start a argument...I will give you a run for your money....Turkey was...I say was a great ally of the US....Being a Vietnam era veteran US Army 1964-1968...and my Brother being a veteran US Air Force same era...we both appreciated Turkey's assistance...My brother told me of the help Turkey gave us with Air Base support...and being a ground pounder I was also appreciative...but ya must admit Turkey has fallen to the way side as of late....denial of US Air Base support and staging area for the Iraq war being forefront...if y'all go back to the 1960's era support...maybe just maybe we would too!

 

[Zhukov]

turkey has offered America to deploy 10.000 terrorfighting-skilled Soldiers into sunni triangle... But Barzani+Talabani pressured USA to say no...

Don't you understand? It's too late now. He were forced to ally with people who do not like Turkey. You blew it.

 

[ekrem]

By my way of thinking that would be compunding one mistake by making another.

Syria is on the way down, and Iran is pushing it.

Your best bet would be to find a way to ingratiate yourself before us.

It's not about pride or honor. It's about doing whats right.

do not misundestand me, syria and Iran are no allies... but through US+Kurdish alliance, turkey is being pushed to these terrorist states...
As i said: we were nearly at war with Syria in 1998... Syria does not respect Turkish Territory... In Syrian TV-Wheatherforecast Turkish Areas are shown as Syrian territory

Our 2nd Army Chief Genral Ilker Basbug said 2 Months ago in Washington:" An atomic Iran not acceptable to Turkey... An Atomic Iran is a threat to turkey"...