Heating and AC , You're screwed

[HaShev]

Great idea. I think I'll also check on the DIY appendectomy kit too. What could go wrong?

I've performed minor surgeries on myself, so bad example. Everybody knows what they are capable of doing themselves. That's why I suggested having an AC guy install the freon you can buy direct or if more handy and have done it with a car freon, it's not difficult if you are a quick study.

 

[BULLDOG]

Great idea. I think I'll also check on the DIY appendectomy kit too. What could go wrong?

I've performed minor surgeries on myself, so bad example. Everybody knows what they are capable of doing themselves. That's why I suggested having an AC guy install the freon you can buy direct or if more handy and have done it with a car freon, it's not difficult if you are a quick study.

I'm not the least bit surprised that you would perform surgery on yourself. That does explain a lot of weird things about you though. Only someone who has had self administered experimental brain surgery would post the things you post.

 

[flacaltenn]

Oh look, a thread of ludditers tossing out alarmist rumors to push a political agenda. How quaint.

Diesels? The crazies have screamed about every upgrade since forever. The result? Efficient, powerful, low pollution engines. If it were up to the luddites, every truck would still be fuel-guzzling fume-belching monster.

Cars? The same screams of doom with every upgrade. The same result, far better engines. In the dream days of the luddites, engines didn't last to 100,000. Now they'll always last to 200,000 or more.

They screamed about light bulbs. The new light bulbs are a raging success. Flac here is even demanding hot light bulbs be used as heaters for the winter, not caring that electric heating is less efficient than a furnace, and apparently thinking we should change out light bulbs seasonally, unless he wants to use them as heaters in summer as well.

Low flow toilets? Just how much shit do you people create? The first gen was a problem, but that was solved 20 years ago. I've never heard of anyone but a conservative having trouble with them now.

They screamed about the loss of R12 freon. Losing it would destroy the economy. It didn't.

Appliances? All more efficient now.

If we had listened to these luddites, our economy would be getting reamed by the inefficient technology wasting massive amounts of energy, on top of environmental damage. And we wouldn't be able to sell the US goods in europe an other markets, so exports would be hammered. It's as if the luddites want to destroy both our economy and our environment.

Yeah.. Just think. . All that electricity conservation for ME -- so that my neighbor can suck 36KW-hrs from the grid twice a week for HIS Chevy volt.. Yeah.. We're just a bunch of whiners.

BTW -- in the winter -- your house and thermostat don't care if that BTU came from the furnace or a 400 Watt light fixture. And with incandescents the energy either went to photons or to heat. So the heat was never wasted when your thermostat was in heat cycle. Now even in Tenn -- my HVAC is set to heat 7 months of the year and 2 more months where it's essentially OFF. Leaving a mere 3 months of peak cooling. So even with that math -- in MOST states in the US -- the Incandescent was GREATLY maligned for "wasting" anything. In fact, I've got a buddy that does builder energy certification and NOW they have new charts and tables to reflect the missing "heat load" from switching to LED lighting.

 

[HaShev]

Great idea. I think I'll also check on the DIY appendectomy kit too. What could go wrong?

I've performed minor surgeries on myself, so bad example. Everybody knows what they are capable of doing themselves. That's why I suggested having an AC guy install the freon you can buy direct or if more handy and have done it with a car freon, it's not difficult if you are a quick study.

I'm not the least bit surprised that you would perform surgery on yourself. That does explain a lot of weird things about you though. Only someone who has had self administered experimental brain surgery would post the things you post.

Says the man who can't fix his own garbage disposal.

 

[BULLDOG]

Oh look, a thread of ludditers tossing out alarmist rumors to push a political agenda. How quaint.

Diesels? The crazies have screamed about every upgrade since forever. The result? Efficient, powerful, low pollution engines. If it were up to the luddites, every truck would still be fuel-guzzling fume-belching monster.

Cars? The same screams of doom with every upgrade. The same result, far better engines. In the dream days of the luddites, engines didn't last to 100,000. Now they'll always last to 200,000 or more.

They screamed about light bulbs. The new light bulbs are a raging success. Flac here is even demanding hot light bulbs be used as heaters for the winter, not caring that electric heating is less efficient than a furnace, and apparently thinking we should change out light bulbs seasonally, unless he wants to use them as heaters in summer as well.

Low flow toilets? Just how much shit do you people create? The first gen was a problem, but that was solved 20 years ago. I've never heard of anyone but a conservative having trouble with them now.

They screamed about the loss of R12 freon. Losing it would destroy the economy. It didn't.

Appliances? All more efficient now.

If we had listened to these luddites, our economy would be getting reamed by the inefficient technology wasting massive amounts of energy, on top of environmental damage. And we wouldn't be able to sell the US goods in europe an other markets, so exports would be hammered. It's as if the luddites want to destroy both our economy and our environment.

Yeah.. Just think. . All that electricity conservation for ME -- so that my neighbor can suck 36KW-hrs from the grid twice a week for HIS Chevy volt.. Yeah.. We're just a bunch of whiners.

BTW -- in the winter -- your house and thermostat don't care if that BTU came from the furnace or a 400 Watt light fixture. And with incandescents the energy either went to photons or to heat. So the heat was never wasted when your thermostat was in heat cycle. Now even in Tenn -- my HVAC is set to heat 7 months of the year and 2 more months where it's essentially OFF. Leaving a mere 3 months of peak cooling. So even with that math -- in MOST states in the US -- the Incandescent was GREATLY maligned for "wasting" anything. In fact, I've got a buddy that does builder energy certification and NOW they have new charts and tables to reflect the missing "heat load" from switching to LED lighting.

Here on the gulf coast, I have had to run the AC at least a few days every month all winter long. I don't need a lot of extra heat.

 

[Missourian]

Kinda like the Govt logic in Mandating low flow toilets that you have to flush twice. Or outlawing incandescents that actually were 100% efficient in the seasons where your HVAC was on Heat cycles. Because the "waste heat" from the bulbs reduced the demand on the HVAC..

3-way bulbs are still incandescent...and when you use them in non-3-way sockets, they default to the center wattage...so a 50/100/150 is a 100 watt and a 30/70/100 is a 70 watt. That's all we use around the house.

Shhhh, don't tell the government...

 

[BULLDOG]

Great idea. I think I'll also check on the DIY appendectomy kit too. What could go wrong?

I've performed minor surgeries on myself, so bad example. Everybody knows what they are capable of doing themselves. That's why I suggested having an AC guy install the freon you can buy direct or if more handy and have done it with a car freon, it's not difficult if you are a quick study.

I'm not the least bit surprised that you would perform surgery on yourself. That does explain a lot of weird things about you though. Only someone who has had self administered experimental brain surgery would post the things you post.

Says the man who can't fix his own garbage disposal.

You have every right to compare your brain to a garbage disposal if you want to.

 

[mamooth]

BTW -- in the winter -- your house and thermostat don't care if that BTU came from the furnace or a 400 Watt light fixture

But your wallet cares.

Do you run a space heater to heat your house?

No? You mean that would be wildly inefficient compared to a gas furnace?

Then why do you advocate running many little space heaters? Even in winter, that's inefficient.

And again, it ignores summer completely.

 

[mamooth]

I'm not the least bit surprised that you would perform surgery on yourself.

I've done bits of surgery on myself too, to remove little skin imperfections. Just lop it off. No need to run off to a doctor's office that's full of drug-resistant bacteria.

The key? Freeze it first. Hold an ice cube on the spot for 10 minutes. That makes it numb long enough to do the job.

 

[flacaltenn]

BTW -- in the winter -- your house and thermostat don't care if that BTU came from the furnace or a 400 Watt light fixture

But your wallet cares.

Do you run a space heater to heat your house?

No? You mean that would be wildly inefficient compared to a gas furnace?

Then why do you advocate running many little space heaters? Even in winter, that's inefficient.

And again, it ignores summer completely.

I didn't ignore the seasons -- I accounted for them. 3 months versus 7 months. And keeping with the OP topic, what do think happens when your 14 SEER govt designed "efficient" heat pump quits and falls behind just because it's cold outside? . Well, essentially you GET an inefficient space heater when those 5KW or 10KW heat strips kick in on "emergency" heat. Got so bad with the new GOVT designed heat pump -- I took to USING a space heater in my 1200 ft home lab to KEEP the heat strips off. And since the compressor just spins and the fan still runs, the space heater output gets evenly distributed.

In FACT -- what's up with the new ZONE heating huh? Little room by room units are all the rage. And with the lighting -- if you're NOT a complete idiot (which includes current company) --- you are IN the rooms where the lights are on --- aren't you? NOT trying to heat your whole house. AND they are only on when it's really really cold out at night -- right?

Don't worry -- I'll slow you walk thru this so you'll eventually catch on..

 

[flacaltenn]

Kinda like the Govt logic in Mandating low flow toilets that you have to flush twice. Or outlawing incandescents that actually were 100% efficient in the seasons where your HVAC was on Heat cycles. Because the "waste heat" from the bulbs reduced the demand on the HVAC..

3-way bulbs are still incandescent...and when you use them in non-3-way sockets, they default to the center wattage...so a 50/100/150 is a 100 watt and a 30/70/100 is a 70 watt. That's all we use around the house.

Shhhh, don't tell the government...

Only a matter of time. GE wants to make wireless NETWORKED (I swear to God) "smart bulbs" that can be individually set from a central point. That's the equivalent of running elevators with a dual core Intel chipset..

 

[mamooth]

Sounds like crap. Maytag products suck.

My 1972 Maytag washer/dryer set is chugging along fine. I've replaced the heating element in the dryer once, that's all.

 

[flacaltenn]

I'm not the least bit surprised that you would perform surgery on yourself.

I've done bits of surgery on myself too, to remove little skin imperfections. Just lop it off. No need to run off to a doctor's office that's full of drug-resistant bacteria.

The key? Freeze it first. Hold an ice cube on the spot for 10 minutes. That makes it numb long enough to do the job.

I might get a warning for this -- but is this what ObamaCare has brought us to? MamoothCare?

 

[flacaltenn]

Oh look, a thread of ludditers tossing out alarmist rumors to push a political agenda. How quaint.

Diesels? The crazies have screamed about every upgrade since forever. The result? Efficient, powerful, low pollution engines. If it were up to the luddites, every truck would still be fuel-guzzling fume-belching monster.

Cars? The same screams of doom with every upgrade. The same result, far better engines. In the dream days of the luddites, engines didn't last to 100,000. Now they'll always last to 200,000 or more.

They screamed about light bulbs. The new light bulbs are a raging success. Flac here is even demanding hot light bulbs be used as heaters for the winter, not caring that electric heating is less efficient than a furnace, and apparently thinking we should change out light bulbs seasonally, unless he wants to use them as heaters in summer as well.

Low flow toilets? Just how much shit do you people create? The first gen was a problem, but that was solved 20 years ago. I've never heard of anyone but a conservative having trouble with them now.

They screamed about the loss of R12 freon. Losing it would destroy the economy. It didn't.

Appliances? All more efficient now.

If we had listened to these luddites, our economy would be getting reamed by the inefficient technology wasting massive amounts of energy, on top of environmental damage. And we wouldn't be able to sell the US goods in europe an other markets, so exports would be hammered. It's as if the luddites want to destroy both our economy and our environment.

Yeah.. Just think. . All that electricity conservation for ME -- so that my neighbor can suck 36KW-hrs from the grid twice a week for HIS Chevy volt.. Yeah.. We're just a bunch of whiners.

BTW -- in the winter -- your house and thermostat don't care if that BTU came from the furnace or a 400 Watt light fixture. And with incandescents the energy either went to photons or to heat. So the heat was never wasted when your thermostat was in heat cycle. Now even in Tenn -- my HVAC is set to heat 7 months of the year and 2 more months where it's essentially OFF. Leaving a mere 3 months of peak cooling. So even with that math -- in MOST states in the US -- the Incandescent was GREATLY maligned for "wasting" anything. In fact, I've got a buddy that does builder energy certification and NOW they have new charts and tables to reflect the missing "heat load" from switching to LED lighting.

Here on the gulf coast, I have had to run the AC at least a few days every month all winter long. I don't need a lot of extra heat.

Understand that. That's why I said MOST of the country. Most of the time these DC national mandates dont really ALLOW for regional choices or logic or reason.. In FACT -- the whole Heat Pump market is virtually south of the Mason Dixon line. You wouldn't survive a Green Bay winter in a medium/large house with a 14 SEER heat pump..

 

[mamooth]

I didn't ignore the seasons -- I accounted for them. 3 months versus 7 months.

But again, you're losing efficiency in the 7 months as well as the 3 months.

And keeping with the OP topic, what do think happens when your 14 SEER govt designed "efficient" heat pump quits and falls behind.

Why would it quit? 14 SEER units have been mandatory for new sales for two years now. There's been no news of problems with every new unit in the nation. And nobody is mandated to get a heat pump instead of a furnace and A/C.

Circuit boards? A new computer motherboard is much cheaper. A furnace or A/C circuit board is far simpler, and should run about $10. Don't blame the government for that scam by the manufacturers.

In FACT -- what's up with the new ZONE heating huh?

I have no idea. To me, zone heating means opening or shutting the damper on the vent. If you want to go smart house, I won't be joining you. I consider a house that can be hacked to be a bad thing.

 

[flacaltenn]

Why would it quit? 14 SEER units have been mandatory for new sales for two years now. There's been no news of problems with every new unit in the nation. And nobody is mandated to get a heat pump instead of a furnace and A/C.

It "quits" because it's too cold outside for the wimpier "efficient" compressors to work on the wimpier gas that goes with them.. Duh.. It still is capable of keeping up with the house loss if it runs all the time or just runs in conjunction with the heat strips. LITERALLY -- Mine can't keep up on a 1200 ft zone space when it's below 30degF or so.

But again, you're losing efficiency in the 7 months as well as the 3 months.

Again -- for that 7 months you're not losing a thing. Every watt goes to light -- or heat. The stupid ass bureaucrat view is to measure lamp efficiency as Lumen/Watt. Which is where they found the key to KILLING incandescents. But every other watt that doesn't go to Lumens goes to heat. 100% efficient when you need to heat that space where the lights are on and you're in the room.

I think the way they screwed up the Heat Pump efficiency calculation is a similar deal where they ignore or downplay the trade-off between the much more efficient compressor output and the terribly INefficient Heat Strip backup. In fact, just having designed a product to IMPROVE the heat strip efficiency for a client -- Even tho the compressor side is losing the battle to heat your home -- they STILL keep the compressor side running because of it's INHERENT greater efficiency even when the Heat Strips turn on.. Because it lessens the ON cycle of the heat strips.

 

[mamooth]

Again -- for that 7 months you're not losing a thing. Every watt goes to light -- or heat.

You're missing the point. Capturing waste heat is less inefficient that losing it in winter, but it's more efficient to never waste the electricity to make the waste heat at all, and to use the furnace instead. Using efficient appliances and lighting will lower your combined electric and heating bill in winter. Using inefficient devices will raise it.

100% efficient when you need to heat that space where the lights are on and you're in the room.

Getting more sensible there. Personal heating is better than whole house heating. However, light bulbs are a bad way to go about that. You'd need a crapload of them to raise temp. Clothing or an electric blanket are better solutions.

 

[owebo]

Exactly, turns out the supposed safer refrigerant was not more efficient or so safe and newer systems have been having issues quicker then then the former.
My suggestion is to buy the older refrigerant on Amazon $27-$30 a can not 100 from AC co and have your certified AC friend or company fill the system this at least saves 50% + on the freon costs as the A/C guy doubles or more the already excessive cost of freon.
Or if you have some experience from car freon installations learn home AC on Youtube get a license $50-$65 and do it yourself.
All you need are cheap leak detectors under $20. and metalic bonding compound to repair found leaks, manifolds (pressure reader) under $30 that read your type of freon, and a temp gauge for the hi and lo line.

Great idea. I think I'll also check on the DIY appendectomy kit too. What could go wrong?

We were just talking about luddites like you the other day....more specifically about the younger generation being incapable of using hand tools and how the hand tool market is suffering because the younger generation can barley change a lightbulb now.

It's sad how you need someone else to tell you what to do......and are now incapable of doing for yourself....

 

[owebo]

Oh look, a thread of ludditers tossing out alarmist rumors to push a political agenda. How quaint.

Diesels? The crazies have screamed about every upgrade since forever. The result? Efficient, powerful, low pollution engines. If it were up to the luddites, every truck would still be fuel-guzzling fume-belching monster.

Cars? The same screams of doom with every upgrade. The same result, far better engines. In the dream days of the luddites, engines didn't last to 100,000. Now they'll always last to 200,000 or more.

They screamed about light bulbs. The new light bulbs are a raging success. Flac here is even demanding hot light bulbs be used as heaters for the winter, not caring that electric heating is less efficient than a furnace, and apparently thinking we should change out light bulbs seasonally, unless he wants to use them as heaters in summer as well.

Low flow toilets? Just how much shit do you people create? The first gen was a problem, but that was solved 20 years ago. I've never heard of anyone but a conservative having trouble with them now.

They screamed about the loss of R12 freon. Losing it would destroy the economy. It didn't.

Appliances? All more efficient now.

If we had listened to these luddites, our economy would be getting reamed by the inefficient technology wasting massive amounts of energy, on top of environmental damage. And we wouldn't be able to sell the US goods in europe an other markets, so exports would be hammered. It's as if the luddites want to destroy both our economy and our environment.

The days of your environmental fascism are coming to an end....we are tired of you fascists destroying the environment.....

 

[Norman]

The God-Emperor will deal with this shortly.