Heart and Soul, Military and Religion demand it.

[Psychoblues]

America, right or wrong, many of the aforementioned demand it. As a Christian and ex-military I reject it. I fight for America when America can convince me it is correct. As a Christian, I believe Jesus taught over, over and over again that WAR is IMMORAL and should be rejected by all mankind. As ex-military, I completely understand the power of a command. Right or wrong, the COMMAND must be obeyed. I've certainly seen the right and the wrong side of a few COMMANDS.

The problem in Iraq is not with the American and coalition soldiers that fight there. The problem is with the premise of the war on a country that had no capacity or inclination to do any damage to the United States Of America or it's interests, financial or otherwise. The problem does relate to favoritism of the American politico for certain political outcomes in Iraq that exceeded the patience of the American exploitation experts.

Typical Iraqi people had no animosity toward Americans prior to 1991. The Shia in the south and the Kurds in the north certainly have reason to distrust the Americans since that time...Both, at that time, considered the promises of the Americans to free them from the control of Saddam Hussein and his murderers to be the blessing of salvation they were looking for. Instead, George H.W. Bush allowed them to be slaughtered, harassed and even more completely distraught than they were before the Desert Storm operation.

The armies of Saddam Hussein were let completely loose to murder and harass anyone or anything in disagreement with the Bathist version of Sunni Muslimism. So much for salvation. God clearly was not on the side of the Southern Shia or the Northern Kurd populations.

But God reveals himself in the 2003 war. Saddam is gone. G-O-N-E. Captured and in the probing hands of the offerers of SALVATION, the opposing religious sects that comprise 80% of the country can now rejoice. But, wait a minute. The soldiers of salvation are still killing the innocents, the unsuspecting, claiming every (as they perceive it) murder as some kind of justification for "FREEDOM". Less "FREEDOM" will never amount to more "FREEDOM".

I have been to IRAQ several times. My interpretation is that Iraqi's have less faith in the United States now than they did in 1991. In fact, most think the United States an occupying force there to exploit their only national resourse and not in any way supportive of any government that may view Iraqi nationalism a virtue in international politic or economic sense. In other words, as is common in America, screw the peons, make and take the money, and never admit it was anything other than a "freedom" operation. Personally, I'm pretty sick of the "Freedom" word being used by so many that work so hard to restrict it.

I could go on and on, but let's discuss this for awhile. You jerks that only intend to call me names and make senseless inuendo, stick it in your ass and go somewhere else, OK?

Psychoblues

 

[CSM]

America, right or wrong, many of the aforementioned demand it. As a Christian and ex-military I reject it. I fight for America when America can convince me it is correct. As a Christian, I believe Jesus taught over, over and over again that WAR is IMMORAL and should be rejected by all mankind. As ex-military, I completely understand the power of a command. Right or wrong, the COMMAND must be obeyed. I've certainly seen the right and the wrong side of a few COMMANDS.

The problem in Iraq is not with the American and coalition soldiers that fight there. The problem is with the premise of the war on a country that had no capacity or inclination to do any damage to the United States Of America or it's interests, financial or otherwise. The problem does relate to favoritism of the American politico for certain political outcomes in Iraq that exceeded the patience of the American exploitation experts.

Typical Iraqi people had no animosity toward Americans prior to 1991. The Shia in the south and the Kurds in the north certainly have reason to distrust the Americans since that time...Both, at that time, considered the promises of the Americans to free them from the control of Saddam Hussein and his murderers to be the blessing of salvation they were looking for. Instead, George H.W. Bush allowed them to be slaughtered, harassed and even more completely distraught than they were before the Desert Storm operation.

The armies of Saddam Hussein were let completely loose to murder and harass anyone or anything in disagreement with the Bathist version of Sunni Muslimism. So much for salvation. God clearly was not on the side of the Southern Shia or the Northern Kurd populations.

But God reveals himself in the 2003 war. Saddam is gone. G-O-N-E. Captured and in the probing hands of the offerers of SALVATION, the opposing religious sects that comprise 80% of the country can now rejoice. But, wait a minute. The soldiers of salvation are still killing the innocents, the unsuspecting, claiming every (as they perceive it) murder as some kind of justification for "FREEDOM". Less "FREEDOM" will never amount to more "FREEDOM".

I have been to IRAQ several times. My interpretation is that Iraqi's have less faith in the United States now than they did in 1991. In fact, most think the United States an occupying force there to exploit their only national resourse and not in any way supportive of any government that may view Iraqi nationalism a virtue in international politic or economic sense. In other words, as is common in America, screw the peons, make and take the money, and never admit it was anything other than a "freedom" operation. Personally, I'm pretty sick of the "Freedom" word being used by so many that work so hard to restrict it.

I could go on and on, but let's discuss this for awhile. You jerks that only intend to call me names and make senseless inuendo, stick it in your ass and go somewhere else, OK?

Psychoblues

OK we so we know move from military expert to expert on Iraq because you have been there "many times". You are so full of shit your eyes must be brown. By the way, those "soldiers of salvation" that are killing the innocent are not Americans, though that is what you want us all to believe. I suspect that your true colors are showing with that statement.

Here is an idea for you...why dont YOU move on. You contribute nothing valid to any thread on this board, you are obviously nothing more than a Bush hater and a troll ( a poor troll at that!) and if it were not for lib/Dem/anti war talking points would actually be incoherent. I would also tell you to "stick it in YOUR ass" but your head is there.

I suspect the only Christianity you adhere to is when you sober up occassionally and say "God, I'll never do that again!". You are a very very sick man (and I mean that sincerely); get help.

 

[Psychoblues]

OK, so now we know how you feel about Psychoblues. What is your point? Do you not think that religious and military fervor in deference to intelligent consideration rule most often even here in 2006?

Give me argument in the context that I propose, CSM.

To get it straight, NO, I am no military expert but I have at least been there and done my absolute best. But I do have a discerning attitude, the best of America, and I do reject bullshit and otherwise lies in support of failing operations.

Point by point, give me argument supporting your disagreement with my analogies. You really don't have to call me names or insult me with your gutteral outrage. I'm not asking for your feeble feelings. I'm asking for your well thought out and personally responsible opinions. As a genuine CSM, you should certainly be prepared to share your views and understanding of the problems brought before you.


Psychoblues

OK we so we know move from military expert to expert on Iraq because you have been there "many times". You are so full of shit your eyes must be brown. By the way, those "soldiers of salvation" that are killing the innocent are not Americans, though that is what you want us all to believe. I suspect that your true colors are showing with that statement.

Here is an idea for you...why dont YOU move on. You contribute nothing valid to any thread on this board, you are obviously nothing more than a Bush hater and a troll ( a poor troll at that!) and if it were not for lib/Dem/anti war talking points would actually be incoherent. I would also tell you to "stick it in YOUR ass" but your head is there.

I suspect the only Christianity you adhere to is when you sober up occassionally and say "God, I'll never do that again!". You are a very very sick man (and I mean that sincerely); get help.

 

[jimnyc]

I could go on and on, but let's discuss this for awhile. You jerks that only intend to call me names and make senseless inuendo, stick it in your ass and go somewhere else, OK?

Psychoblues

Holy Moly, Psycho is still chugging along at the USMB. Gotta say, buddy, I laughed out loud at your pre-emptive action here and applaud your efforts, almost brought a tear to my eye. Love you, man!

 

[Psychoblues]

You've brought me 360, man!!!!! Yep, I'm still around and that is exactly why I think USMB is the very best!!!!! There is no question, most American internet sites that have the audacity to purpose to create nationalism in their name alone are only shills for their own politically objective pruposes. Jim, you have proven, at least to me, that you can accept our differences and speak with intelligense. You've not disappointed, other than a few of your more unintended anti-American remarks, yet and I hope we can continue this relationship for some time to come!!!!! Ain't it wonderful that politics and actions made in the name of America can be so freely discussed in this venue?!?!?!?!??!?!

I'll always respect you, Jim.


Psychoblues

Holy Moly, Psycho is still chugging along at the USMB. Gotta say, buddy, I laughed out loud at your pre-emptive action here and applaud your efforts, almost brought a tear to my eye. Love you, man!

 

[Gunny]

OK, so now we know how you feel about Psychoblues. What is your point? Do you not think that religious and military fervor in deference to intelligent consideration rule most often even here in 2006?

Give me argument in the context that I propose, CSM.

To get it straight, NO, I am no military expert but I have at least been there and done my absolute best. But I do have a discerning attitude, the best of America, and I do reject bullshit and otherwise lies in support of failing operations.

Point by point, give me argument supporting your disagreement with my analogies. You really don't have to call me names or insult me with your gutteral outrage. I'm not asking for your feeble feelings. I'm asking for your well thought out and personally responsible opinions. As a genuine CSM, you should certainly be prepared to share your views and understanding of the problems brought before you.


Psychoblues

Feeble feelings: Your ranting accusations, as usual, are nonsensical gibberish. Hard to argue against THAT. When you post a legitimate argument, you might get one in return. Until then, you are nothing more than an every-weekend-or-so aside.

 

[Psychoblues]

gonnyL, you have no idea how weak and immaterial you come across. Did you have too many GI JOE toys as a child?

Psychoblues

Feeble feelings: Your ranting accusations, as usual, are nonsensical gibberish. Hard to argue against THAT. When you post a legitimate argument, you might get one in return. Until then, you are nothing more than an every-weekend-or-so aside.

 

[Hobbit]

I could go on and on, but let's discuss this for awhile. You jerks that only intend to call me names and make senseless inuendo, stick it in your ass and go somewhere else, OK?

Psychoblues

Point number one: innuendo: You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. The least you could do is spell it right, ya know?

Edit: Lemme help you out with that.

Main Entry: in·nu·en·do
Pronunciation: "in-y&-'wen-(")dO
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -dos or -does
Etymology: Latin, by nodding, from innuere to nod to, make a sign to, from in- + nuere to nod; akin to Latin nutare to nod -- more at NUMEN
1 a : an oblique allusion : HINT, INSINUATION; especially : a veiled or equivocal reflection on character or reputation b : the use of such allusions <resorting to innuendo>
2 : a parenthetical explanation introduced into the text of a legal document

I don't think you mean the legal one, so I assume you must mean the first one. The definition uses words like 'oblique' and 'veiled,' which would imply subtlety. I really don't see anything subtle about how other board members address you, unless you call be shot in the face with a 12-inch naval bombardment cannon subtle. I mean, innuendo is kinda like, "I think you need to check up on your resources. They may not be as accurate as you think, and I think they may be skewing a bit to make a point" when it's fairly clear that you are your own source. What I see most people do is something more along the lines of, "Do you actually believe that crap or are you willing to lie your ass off to make Bush look bad? Seriously, lay off the dope before you kill both your brain cells."

Point number two: Why is it that two of our four most annoying board members must end every post by repeating their usernames. (the other one is acludem)

 

[CSM]

OK, so now we know how you feel about Psychoblues. What is your point? Do you not think that religious and military fervor in deference to intelligent consideration rule most often even here in 2006?

No.

Give me argument in the context that I propose, CSM.

Hard to rebut anything in the context you propose...there is no substance to it. It is as amorphous as lucid thought in your meandering posts.

To get it straight, NO, I am no military expert but I have at least been there and done my absolute best. But I do have a discerning attitude, the best of America, SO WHAT and I do reject bullshit and otherwise lies in support of failing operations. Me too.
However, your idea of "failing operations" is a whole lot different than mine. When a commander's personal bias (that would be you and your blatant hatred for all things Republican/Bush) clouds his judgement so badly that he can no longer be effective, he is dismissed.

Point by point, give me argument supporting your disagreement with my analogies. You really don't have to call me names or insult me with your gutteral outrage. Not gutteral outrage; amusement perhaps but only mildly amused. I'm not asking for your feeble feelings. My feelings are feeble? Damn, I'll have to get that fixed. I wonder if you realize how weird that particular statement is? I'm asking for your well thought out and personally responsible opinions. I voice my opinions all over this board...go find em and read em. As a genuine CSM, you should certainly be prepared to share your views and understanding of the problems brought before you. Indeed I am and often do, however, I do not do anything because some dumbass whom I have no respect for, whom I consider mentally deficient, and who simply wants to waste my time demands it.

Psychoblues

Again...you need serious serious help.

 

[theHawk]

America, right or wrong, many of the aforementioned demand it.

Demand what? 'Heart and Soul'?

As a Christian and ex-military I reject it.

Reject what?

I fight for America when America can convince me it is correct.

Then why are you an American if you distrust it so much?

As a Christian, I believe Jesus taught over, over and over again that WAR is IMMORAL and should be rejected by all mankind. As ex-military, I completely understand the power of a command.

If Jesus taught you that all WAR is IMMORAL, why would you join any military...whose only purpose is to prepare for WAR. You don't see that you completely contradict youself?

The problem in Iraq is not with the American and coalition soldiers that fight there. The problem is with the premise of the war on a country that had no capacity or inclination to do any damage to the United States Of America or it's interests, financial or otherwise. The problem does relate to favoritism of the American politico for certain political outcomes in Iraq that exceeded the patience of the American exploitation experts.

I think this is the first intelligent thing I've heard you say. But just because you have a problem with the premise of the war, does not mean the rest of us feel the same way. You don't feel Saddam was a direct threat to the U.S., thats fine. But at least respect the opinion of those of us that felt the man could not be trusted. Given his track record of invading and raping a neighboring country, killing his own people, using WMD on his own people, I don't think thats too much to ask. Is it PsychoB?

Typical Iraqi people had no animosity toward Americans prior to 1991. The Shia in the south and the Kurds in the north certainly have reason to distrust the Americans since that time...Both, at that time, considered the promises of the Americans to free them from the control of Saddam Hussein and his murderers to be the blessing of salvation they were looking for. Instead, George H.W. Bush allowed them to be slaughtered, harassed and even more completely distraught than they were before the Desert Storm operation.

Yes that was a mistake by H.W. Bush. He capitulated intense political pressure from France and the like to not go all the way into Baghdad.

The armies of Saddam Hussein were let completely loose to murder and harass anyone or anything in disagreement with the Bathist version of Sunni Muslimism. So much for salvation. God clearly was not on the side of the Southern Shia or the Northern Kurd populations.

If you say so.

I have been to IRAQ several times. My interpretation is that Iraqi's have less faith in the United States now than they did in 1991.

Thank yourself and other liberal idiots for that. If our country was unified in this war they'd probably feel different. But poeple like you keep feeding the terrorists exactly what they want to hear, and terrorists keep feeding you liberals ammunition to fight your political war and further your politcal agenda here at home.

In fact, most think the United States an occupying force there to exploit their only national resourse and not in any way supportive of any government that may view Iraqi nationalism a virtue in international politic or economic sense. In other words, as is common in America, screw the peons, make and take the money, and never admit it was anything other than a "freedom" operation. Personally, I'm pretty sick of the "Freedom" word being used by so many that work so hard to restrict it.

I'm sure we're all glad that you liberals are here to tell us why we support this war. If our mentality was "screw the peons" and "take the money[oil]" then why wouldn't we have just left the dictator in power and remove the sanctions from Iraq and just buy the oil at a premium rate? Thats what I would had pushed for it thats how I really felt.

 

[CSM]

Demand what? 'Heart and Soul'?


Reject what?


Then why are you an American if you distrust it so much?


If Jesus taught you that all WAR is IMMORAL, why would you join any military...whose only purpose is to prepare for WAR. You don't see that you completely contradict youself?



I think this is the first intelligent thing I've heard you say. But just because you have a problem with the premise of the war, does not mean the rest of us feel the same way. You don't feel Saddam was a direct threat to the U.S., thats fine. But at least respect the opinion of those of us that felt the man could not be trusted. Given his track record of invading and raping a neighboring country, killing his own people, using WMD on his own people, I don't think thats too much to ask. Is it PsychoB?



Yes that was a mistake by H.W. Bush. He capitulated intense political pressure from France and the like to not go all the way into Baghdad.



If you say so.


Thank yourself and other liberal idiots for that. If our country was unified in this war they'd probably feel different. But poeple like you keep feeding the terrorists exactly what they want to hear, and terrorists keep feeding you liberals ammunition to fight your political war and further your politcal agenda here at home.


I'm sure we're all glad that you liberals are here to tell us why we support this war. If our mentality was "screw the peons" and "take the money[oil]" then why wouldn't we have just left the dictator in power and remove the sanctions from Iraq and just buy the oil at a premium rate? Thats what I would had pushed for it thats how I really felt.

You should be ashamed of yourself hawk...engaging in an intellectual confrontation with not only an unarmed man, but a disaled one!

 

[Gunny]

gonnyL, you have no idea how weak and immaterial you come across. Did you have too many GI JOE toys as a child?

Psychoblues

Yeah, that's why everyone generally agrees with you.:rotflmao:

You are a fraudulent, lying hypocrite. And I mean that in the nicest possible way.

 

[Psychoblues]

GunnyL, I am completely aware that this particular internet site leans hard right. Nonetheless, there are some very good arguments here and interesting facts disseminated. I don't expect for a moment much agreement from participants on this board. I am also aware than most if not all that have agreed with me in the past have been banned from this board. It is, however, hilarious some of the things that you and others say when you simply can't say anything other than personal attack or otherwise personal slander.

Two things that the internet and this site in particular give me. Entertainment and education all at the same time. I LOVE it. What are you getting out of it? It appears you reject any education. Fox News watchers and Rush Limbaugh listeners most always satisfy themselves with shallow thoughts and literary masturbation. Entertainment, I presume.

Psychoblues

Psychoblues

Yeah, that's why everyone generally agrees with you.:rotflmao:

You are a fraudulent, lying hypocrite. And I mean that in the nicest possible way.

 

[theHawk]

It is, however, hilarious some of the things that you and others say when you simply can't say anything other than personal attack or otherwise personal slander.

Funny when its you who goes on rants with hateful attacks against Bush & Co., without any facts to back up your arguements.
Its people like you that seem to slurp up all the slop that is spewed from the liberal elite. Bon appetit

 

[trobinett]

Originally Posted by Psychoblues

It is, however, hilarious some of the things that you and others say when you simply can't say anything other than personal attack or otherwise personal slander.

Just a thought Psycho, but don't you invite those kind of attacks, by the very nature of the posts you make?

 

[liberalogic]

Thank yourself and other liberal idiots for that. If our country was unified in this war they'd probably feel different. But poeple like you keep feeding the terrorists exactly what they want to hear, and terrorists keep feeding you liberals ammunition to fight your political war and further your politcal agenda here at home.

I'm sure we're all glad that you liberals are here to tell us why we support this war. If our mentality was "screw the peons" and "take the money[oil]" then why wouldn't we have just left the dictator in power and remove the sanctions from Iraq and just buy the oil at a premium rate? Thats what I would had pushed for it thats how I really felt.

But the question remains: Was Iraq the most crucial place in the war on terror? Our original goal was to retaliate for 9/11 and to conquer the most important threat. I go to school in NYC and I don't feel any safer today than I did 5 years ago (plus Chertoff deducted millions and millions of dollars from NY's defense budget). I still believe that all of our resources should have been used to find bin Laden-- and he wasn't in Iraq.

Now, we've made a mess of the situation. We've solidified our position in Iraq and have left ourselves vulnerable to insurgents. It's become more of a defensive war rather than an offensive war. While we lay low in Iraq, terrorists can plot attacks in other countries and then have easy access to us in the middle east.

I'm not for pulling out of Iraq for numerous reasons, one of which is the chaos that may ensue. But something's got to give-- if we continue our current approach, car bombings and beheadings will simply continue. It might be time for the Bish administration to reevaluate its military gameplan because sitting there waiting to be attacked isn't going to get us anywhere.

 

[Gunny]

GunnyL, I am completely aware that this particular internet site leans hard right. Nonetheless, there are some very good arguments here and interesting facts disseminated. I don't expect for a moment much agreement from participants on this board. I am also aware than most if not all that have agreed with me in the past have been banned from this board. It is, however, hilarious some of the things that you and others say when you simply can't say anything other than personal attack or otherwise personal slander.

Two things that the internet and this site in particular give me. Entertainment and education all at the same time. I LOVE it. What are you getting out of it? It appears you reject any education. Fox News watchers and Rush Limbaugh listeners most always satisfy themselves with shallow thoughts and literary masturbation. Entertainment, I presume.

Psychoblues

Psychoblues

I don't reject your presumed education. I reject you, period. And just for your info, I don't listen to Rush, and rarely watch Fox News. Yet another incorrect assumption on your part.

 

[dilloduck]

But the question remains: Was Iraq the most crucial place in the war on terror? Our original goal was to retaliate for 9/11 and to conquer the most important threat. I go to school in NYC and I don't feel any safer today than I did 5 years ago (plus Chertoff deducted millions and millions of dollars from NY's defense budget). I still believe that all of our resources should have been used to find bin Laden-- and he wasn't in Iraq.

Now, we've made a mess of the situation. We've solidified our position in Iraq and have left ourselves vulnerable to insurgents. It's become more of a defensive war rather than an offensive war. While we lay low in Iraq, terrorists can plot attacks in other countries and then have easy access to us in the middle east.

I'm not for pulling out of Iraq for numerous reasons, one of which is the chaos that may ensue. But something's got to give-- if we continue our current approach, car bombings and beheadings will simply continue. It might be time for the Bish administration to reevaluate its military gameplan because sitting there waiting to be attacked isn't going to get us anywhere.

You think they might be constantly evaluating the situation but for some strange reason they don't feel a need to tell the whole world what the plan is?

 

[Gunny]

You think they might be constantly evaluating the situation but for some strange reason they don't feel a need to tell the whole world what the plan is?

Never. They just wake up in the morning hoping nothing happens.

 

[Annie]

Never. They just wake up in the morning hoping nothing happens.

or the NY Times catches a whiff...