Healthcare For All / Real Solutions

[STAND4LIBERTY]

Yes, rates are based on initial risk. I had insurance with Anthem in Colorado. Anthem is owned by Wellpoint. I paid my premiums and became sick. Now, I had to move to Ohio. Anthem is in Ohio also, but they operate as a separate company, yet they are also owned by Wellpoint. I had insurance with this company, purchased before I became high risk. Now they will only offer me a new policy at three times the premium with a deductible five times higher than my old policy.

Is that because you moved to a different state?

I just laugh at those like you because if you were in my shoes, you would be pissed too, yet you'll defend these bastards to the end so long as it is not you who is being affected.

Actually I have been in your shoes pal, I have a wife that's been chronically ill for years due to no fault of her own and have never once asked anybody else to pay the premiums on her health insurance. I'm defending the RIGHTS and PROPERTY of me and my fellow citizens from those that want to take them by force, that doesn't mean I believe the system cannot be improved, it does however mean that I do not accept that the way to improve it is to engage in further legalized theft from my me and my fellow citizens, the amount of legalized plunder that we already put up with is more than enough.

 

[auditor0007]

Yes, rates are based on initial risk. I had insurance with Anthem in Colorado. Anthem is owned by Wellpoint. I paid my premiums and became sick. Now, I had to move to Ohio. Anthem is in Ohio also, but they operate as a separate company, yet they are also owned by Wellpoint. I had insurance with this company, purchased before I became high risk. Now they will only offer me a new policy at three times the premium with a deductible five times higher than my old policy.

Is that because you moved to a different state?

I just laugh at those like you because if you were in my shoes, you would be pissed too, yet you'll defend these bastards to the end so long as it is not you who is being affected.

Actually I have been in your shoes pal, I have a wife that's been chronically ill for years due to no fault of her own and have never once asked anybody else to pay the premiums on her health insurance. I'm defending the RIGHTS and PROPERTY of me and my fellow citizens from those that want to take them by force, that doesn't mean I believe the system cannot be improved, it does however mean that I do not accept that the way to improve it is to engage in further legalized theft from my me and my fellow citizens, the amount of legalized plunder that we already put up with is more than enough.

Because I moved to a different state, they treat me as a new applicant. Therefore, they can make the costs so high, it is basically unaffordable.

Tell me something; how much do you pay for your wife's insurance and healthcare per year? I was paying $6000 per year between premiums and out of pocket to cover deductibles. That was just for myself, not including my kids coverage. Now, it will cost me around $16,000 per year. Going without insurance, it will cost me around $4000 per year for the care I need. Of course, I would no longer have the insurance covering me in case my condition becomes critical. It likely will not, so I'll go without. However, if I do all of a sudden need a new liver, I'll be left to die, and my kids will lose the only surviving parent they have.

The dumb thing is that once my business is up and running, then I can get insurance through a small business plan, but I'll have to cover another employee. Then the cost will drop dramatically. But being self-employed with no other employees leaves myself and many others out of the loop.

What bothers me is that these companies only care about their bottom line. If it wasn't for other existing laws such as Hipaa, they would deny even more. To give you a better idea of how these companies operate, when I applied for a new policy in Ohio for my kids, I was told their rates would be around $130 per month. My kids are completely healthy with no health issues. After learning of my condition, they upped the rate on my kids to over $200 per month for each of them. I got basically the same policy for my kids through Aetna for $89 per month, because Aetna was not aware of my condition. So Anthem used my condition against my kids even though they have no medical condition themselves. And you think these insurance people are all on the up and up? LOL. There's good reason we need government intervention in their activities, because they will scam anyone they can given the opportunity.

 

[oreo]

I find it very ironic that so many people continue to support the failed system of insurance companies when it comes to our healthcare. A single payer plan, by all means makes the most sense. The whole point is that the insurance industry is just the middle man making huge profits at the expense of both the consumer and the providers.

However, there is another idea. We could allow hospitals and doctors to set up their own networks, providing their own plans that would compete with the insurance companies. Doctors would need to network with certain hospitals, but many already do this. There are some troubles with such a plan, but nothing that can't be worked out. For instance, these networks would also have to include drug plans, and they would have to work out a system of payment for out of network treatment in cases where people are traveling or find themselves in an emergency situation outside of the network.

The government could put everyone on a level playing field by ending the discrimination that exists in pricing by removing group discounts and by making it mandatory for everyone to be accepted that wants to purchase a network plan.

The biggest benefit would be that the middle man would be removed, and most of those costs would be removed. Lastly, there would be some real direct competetion for services, at least in the metropolitan areas.

In Colorado--small business had that kind of plan you're talking about. It was insurance aimed at small businesse's provided by Doctors & Hospitals. As a group of small businesse's we were able to get affordable medical insurance for ourselves--as owners--and our employees. It lasted for about 2 years & was great--THEN somehow the state of Colorado screwed it up--& this plan ended--making it impossible for small business to pay for group insurance which included our employees. We eventually had to set our employees up in single pay insurance--& they would have to pay for any dependents they had & extras. Eventually even that too--skyrocketed--so we then just paid out of pocket for all of our employees to find their own private pay policy.

Obtaining afforable medical insurance--the laws--are a can of worms. I believe if the government would just MANDATE that everyone gets their own medical insurance--like we have to with auto liability insurance--this alone would dramatcially reduce premiums.

But--I think where this is going--is that they are going to tax group health benefits on the employees that are covered in this country by their employers--in order to pay for those without insurance. I doubt--the employees that get it free today--or paid for by their employers--are going to be real happy about this plan.

The one thing I do not WANT--is government taking control over health care in this country. As we have seen with their past actions they cannot be trusted to run any industry in the private sector.

 

[oreo]

Yes, rates are based on initial risk. I had insurance with Anthem in Colorado. Anthem is owned by Wellpoint. I paid my premiums and became sick. Now, I had to move to Ohio. Anthem is in Ohio also, but they operate as a separate company, yet they are also owned by Wellpoint. I had insurance with this company, purchased before I became high risk. Now they will only offer me a new policy at three times the premium with a deductible five times higher than my old policy.

Is that because you moved to a different state?

I just laugh at those like you because if you were in my shoes, you would be pissed too, yet you'll defend these bastards to the end so long as it is not you who is being affected.

Actually I have been in your shoes pal, I have a wife that's been chronically ill for years due to no fault of her own and have never once asked anybody else to pay the premiums on her health insurance. I'm defending the RIGHTS and PROPERTY of me and my fellow citizens from those that want to take them by force, that doesn't mean I believe the system cannot be improved, it does however mean that I do not accept that the way to improve it is to engage in further legalized theft from my me and my fellow citizens, the amount of legalized plunder that we already put up with is more than enough.

Because I moved to a different state, they treat me as a new applicant. Therefore, they can make the costs so high, it is basically unaffordable.

Tell me something; how much do you pay for your wife's insurance and healthcare per year? I was paying $6000 per year between premiums and out of pocket to cover deductibles. That was just for myself, not including my kids coverage. Now, it will cost me around $16,000 per year. Going without insurance, it will cost me around $4000 per year for the care I need. Of course, I would no longer have the insurance covering me in case my condition becomes critical. It likely will not, so I'll go without. However, if I do all of a sudden need a new liver, I'll be left to die, and my kids will lose the only surviving parent they have.

The dumb thing is that once my business is up and running, then I can get insurance through a small business plan, but I'll have to cover another employee. Then the cost will drop dramatically. But being self-employed with no other employees leaves myself and many others out of the loop.

What bothers me is that these companies only care about their bottom line. If it wasn't for other existing laws such as Hipaa, they would deny even more. To give you a better idea of how these companies operate, when I applied for a new policy in Ohio for my kids, I was told their rates would be around $130 per month. My kids are completely healthy with no health issues. After learning of my condition, they upped the rate on my kids to over $200 per month for each of them. I got basically the same policy for my kids through Aetna for $89 per month, because Aetna was not aware of my condition. So Anthem used my condition against my kids even though they have no medical condition themselves. And you think these insurance people are all on the up and up? LOL. There's good reason we need government intervention in their activities, because they will scam anyone they can given the opportunity.

My husband & I--he is 62 & I am 56--we pay $796.00 per month--with a $2000 per year deductible on an 80/20 plan. And we're healthy marathon runners! I really believe this outrageous cost comes from so many uninsured. We are paying for them too--with our premiums.

Mitt Romney fixed health care in his state of MASS. He found out that 45% of the unisured in his state actually made more than 75K per year & just chose not to cover themselves. People who could have easily afforded it. He then mandated that everyone have their own medical insurance--& it dramactically lowered premiums to all.

Again--I don't believe that the Federal Government should take over health care. They would make for very lousy managers--& they would bankrupt the system within months. But they can make laws--tough laws--in order for Americans to get affordable health insurance. They need to open up the competition from one state to the next. They need to encourage nurse practitioners to be put in walk-in clinics in pharmacies across this nation. Thereby--keeping people with common colds & flu symptons out of our expensive emergency rooms.

 

[oreo]

Yes, rates are based on initial risk. I had insurance with Anthem in Colorado. Anthem is owned by Wellpoint. I paid my premiums and became sick. Now, I had to move to Ohio. Anthem is in Ohio also, but they operate as a separate company, yet they are also owned by Wellpoint. I had insurance with this company, purchased before I became high risk. Now they will only offer me a new policy at three times the premium with a deductible five times higher than my old policy.

Is that because you moved to a different state?

I just laugh at those like you because if you were in my shoes, you would be pissed too, yet you'll defend these bastards to the end so long as it is not you who is being affected.

Actually I have been in your shoes pal, I have a wife that's been chronically ill for years due to no fault of her own and have never once asked anybody else to pay the premiums on her health insurance. I'm defending the RIGHTS and PROPERTY of me and my fellow citizens from those that want to take them by force, that doesn't mean I believe the system cannot be improved, it does however mean that I do not accept that the way to improve it is to engage in further legalized theft from my me and my fellow citizens, the amount of legalized plunder that we already put up with is more than enough.

Because I moved to a different state, they treat me as a new applicant. Therefore, they can make the costs so high, it is basically unaffordable.

Tell me something; how much do you pay for your wife's insurance and healthcare per year? I was paying $6000 per year between premiums and out of pocket to cover deductibles. That was just for myself, not including my kids coverage. Now, it will cost me around $16,000 per year. Going without insurance, it will cost me around $4000 per year for the care I need. Of course, I would no longer have the insurance covering me in case my condition becomes critical. It likely will not, so I'll go without. However, if I do all of a sudden need a new liver, I'll be left to die, and my kids will lose the only surviving parent they have.

The dumb thing is that once my business is up and running, then I can get insurance through a small business plan, but I'll have to cover another employee. Then the cost will drop dramatically. But being self-employed with no other employees leaves myself and many others out of the loop.

What bothers me is that these companies only care about their bottom line. If it wasn't for other existing laws such as Hipaa, they would deny even more. To give you a better idea of how these companies operate, when I applied for a new policy in Ohio for my kids, I was told their rates would be around $130 per month. My kids are completely healthy with no health issues. After learning of my condition, they upped the rate on my kids to over $200 per month for each of them. I got basically the same policy for my kids through Aetna for $89 per month, because Aetna was not aware of my condition. So Anthem used my condition against my kids even though they have no medical condition themselves. And you think these insurance people are all on the up and up? LOL. There's good reason we need government intervention in their activities, because they will scam anyone they can given the opportunity.

I don't know what state you're in but in mine if you are an s-corporation you are considered an employee along with your wife. Based on that you would be able to get group insurance. YOU'RE lucky. In the state of Colorado they screwed all of us in the small business catagory. We can no longer get afforable group coverage.

 

[Oddball]

It would be very interesting to see a detailed study on Medicaid/Medicare expenditures in relation to services rendered. I would venture to guess that on the Medicare side, people are receiving quite a bit of healthcare for the money spent. It is true that these programs have become more expensive than projected, but that is because actual treatment costs have grown well above the rate of inflation for the past thirty years. It is the main reason we are paying double as a percent of GDP as we did thirty years ago.

The fact is that people on Medicare are older, and therefore have more health issues, and therefore use healthcares services much more than those in the work force. We've already had the argument that private insurance costs have gone up because it is subsidizing Medicare, and I buy into that. Medicare is underfunded, but that does not necessarily mean that is not being run efficiently.

"Underfunded" my ass!!!!!!


How 'bout we study the costs for Medicare/Medicaid today, versus what they were projected to be when those scams were initiated....Even adjusted for inflation.

G'head....Look it up...We have time.

 

[auditor0007]

Is that because you moved to a different state?



Actually I have been in your shoes pal, I have a wife that's been chronically ill for years due to no fault of her own and have never once asked anybody else to pay the premiums on her health insurance. I'm defending the RIGHTS and PROPERTY of me and my fellow citizens from those that want to take them by force, that doesn't mean I believe the system cannot be improved, it does however mean that I do not accept that the way to improve it is to engage in further legalized theft from my me and my fellow citizens, the amount of legalized plunder that we already put up with is more than enough.

Because I moved to a different state, they treat me as a new applicant. Therefore, they can make the costs so high, it is basically unaffordable.

Tell me something; how much do you pay for your wife's insurance and healthcare per year? I was paying $6000 per year between premiums and out of pocket to cover deductibles. That was just for myself, not including my kids coverage. Now, it will cost me around $16,000 per year. Going without insurance, it will cost me around $4000 per year for the care I need. Of course, I would no longer have the insurance covering me in case my condition becomes critical. It likely will not, so I'll go without. However, if I do all of a sudden need a new liver, I'll be left to die, and my kids will lose the only surviving parent they have.

The dumb thing is that once my business is up and running, then I can get insurance through a small business plan, but I'll have to cover another employee. Then the cost will drop dramatically. But being self-employed with no other employees leaves myself and many others out of the loop.

What bothers me is that these companies only care about their bottom line. If it wasn't for other existing laws such as Hipaa, they would deny even more. To give you a better idea of how these companies operate, when I applied for a new policy in Ohio for my kids, I was told their rates would be around $130 per month. My kids are completely healthy with no health issues. After learning of my condition, they upped the rate on my kids to over $200 per month for each of them. I got basically the same policy for my kids through Aetna for $89 per month, because Aetna was not aware of my condition. So Anthem used my condition against my kids even though they have no medical condition themselves. And you think these insurance people are all on the up and up? LOL. There's good reason we need government intervention in their activities, because they will scam anyone they can given the opportunity.

My husband & I--he is 62 & I am 56--we pay $796.00 per month--with a $2000 per year deductible on an 80/20 plan. And we're healthy marathon runners! I really believe this outrageous cost comes from so many uninsured. We are paying for them too--with our premiums.

Mitt Romney fixed health care in his state of MASS. He found out that 45% of the unisured in his state actually made more than 75K per year & just chose not to cover themselves. People who could have easily afforded it. He then mandated that everyone have their own medical insurance--& it dramactically lowered premiums to all.

Again--I don't believe that the Federal Government should take over health care. They would make for very lousy managers--& they would bankrupt the system within months. But they can make laws--tough laws--in order for Americans to get affordable health insurance. They need to open up the competition from one state to the next. They need to encourage nurse practitioners to be put in walk-in clinics in pharmacies across this nation. Thereby--keeping people with common colds & flu symptons out of our expensive emergency rooms.

Honestly, that makes more sense than any other. But of course, people will argue that they shouldn't be forced to buy health insurance. If it was made mandatory, and they didn't permit group plans, then everyone would fall under the same umbrella. This is very similar to the way it is set up in Switzerland.

The biggest reason we are seeing such a push for more government control is that the current system is out of control and nobody in the current system wants to make any changes. On top of that, these insurance companies have people believing there isn't anything wrong with the way things are, and that is the furthest thing from the truth.

 

[editec]

Good for you. You are obviously a multi-millionaire then. Most of us are not. When you are diagnosed with leukemia and need a stem cell transplant along with all of the other care necessary, then you won't complain about the $1.5 million cost.

Of course, if you don't have that money up front, they will not treat you. So if you aren't a multi-millionaire and are not self-insured, then you're just an idiot. Actually, your an idiot anyway, because being individually self-insured makes no sense at all. You'd be a moron not to at least carry catastophic insurance with a very high deductible.

So basically, your statement is worthless to the discussion, but thanks for trying.

Of course, you conveniently ignore how Medicare/Medicaid, the FDA, and a slew of other gubmint mandates have driven up those costs.

That is true.

 

[STAND4LIBERTY]

Because I moved to a different state, they treat me as a new applicant. Therefore, they can make the costs so high, it is basically unaffordable.

Might the increased cost be due to the variation in regulation in your new state? I'm no expert on insurance but I do know that variations in state regulations can cause wild swings in the price of insurance from state to state without a corresponding differential in the actual cost of the healthcare itself. Regulatory review is one area where the government can actually do a great deal to reduce both the costs of healthcare and health insurance, unfortunately that's hard work loaded with political land mines and something they seem to be unwilling to undertake. So instead of attacking the root cause of rising costs they seek to instead implement an unaffordable band-aid at the taxpayers expense for the sole purpose of buying votes.

Tell me something; how much do you pay for your wife's insurance and healthcare per year? I was paying $6000 per year between premiums and out of pocket to cover deductibles. That was just for myself, not including my kids coverage. Now, it will cost me around $16,000 per year. Going without insurance, it will cost me around $4000 per year for the care I need. Of course, I would no longer have the insurance covering me in case my condition becomes critical. It likely will not, so I'll go without. However, if I do all of a sudden need a new liver, I'll be left to die, and my kids will lose the only surviving parent they have.

Around $7200 a year, however I also incur a great deal of cost in deductibles for care and prescriptions, I haven't totaled it all up this year but it's well over $1000. I sympathize with your situation I really do and would gladly help someone in your situation voluntarily, my beef comes when others want to use the government to put a gun to my head and try and make me do it, especially when I KNOW that the current proposal on the table in Washington D.C. is completely unaffordable and will just saddle future generations with additional crushing debt.

What bothers me is that these companies only care about their bottom line. If it wasn't for other existing laws such as Hipaa, they would deny even more.

Well not to sound callous but if they didn't care about their bottom line they wouldn't have a bottom line to care about, and their costs include a whole range of items that are derived directly from government regulation, do the objectives of those regulations justify the costs they entail? are the regulations achieving those objectives they were created for? are the regulations generating unintended negative unintended consequences? Nobody knows because the government (both federal and state) seem to only want to operate in two modes regulation for regulations sake or deregulation for deregulations sake.

 

[STAND4LIBERTY]

"Underfunded" my ass!!!!!!


How 'bout we study the costs for Medicare/Medicaid today, versus what they were projected to be when those scams were initiated....Even adjusted for inflation.

G'head....Look it up...We have time.

The problem isn't "underfuding" it's UNFUNDED future liabilities as in the government knew the future costs would exceed the revenue intake of the promises made by Medicare to it's citizens and instead of saving for those costs, they've gone ahead and not only spent everything they have taken in but much more besides that. It's as if you promised your child that you would pay for a Harvard Education for him if he agrees to pay in a $1 per week into a college fund and instead of saving anything to fullfill your promise you spend everything you make, your child's $1 per week and then rack up everything you can in credit.

The long term picture for Medicare looks like this (long term unfunded liabilities):

Source:The Real National Debt

And these unfunded liabilities are growing every year we continue to save absolutely nothing against them. I've seen credible sources that suggest that by around the year 2030 the federal government will only take in enough revenue (under the current tax regime) to pay for Social Security, Medicare, Debt Service and NOTHING else.

 

[Oddball]

Yes, I've been aware of the tens of trllions of unfunded promises to pay out coming down the pike for quite some time now.

My comment was directed more at the lame-assed talking point, that arises with alarming regularity, about (your favorite handout program here) is "underfunded", despite the fact that its spending far exceeds the projections made for it at the outset.

It's like dealing with spoiled rotten little Lord Fauntleroy brat children....No matter what they get, it's never ever enough for them.

 

[STAND4LIBERTY]

Yes, I've been aware of the tens of trllions of unfunded promises to pay out coming down the pike for quite some time now.

My comment was directed more at the lame-assed talking point, that arises with alarming regularity, about (your favorite handout program here) is "underfunded", despite the fact that its spending far exceeds the projections made for it at the outset.

It's like dealing with spoiled rotten little Lord Fauntleroy brat children....No matter what they get, it's never ever enough for them.

Gotcha, , just wanted to throw out the real unfunded debt numbers for those that were unaware of how bad the Medicare situation really is.

 

[auditor0007]

Because I moved to a different state, they treat me as a new applicant. Therefore, they can make the costs so high, it is basically unaffordable.

Might the increased cost be due to the variation in regulation in your new state? I'm no expert on insurance but I do know that variations in state regulations can cause wild swings in the price of insurance from state to state without a corresponding differential in the actual cost of the healthcare itself. Regulatory review is one area where the government can actually do a great deal to reduce both the costs of healthcare and health insurance, unfortunately that's hard work loaded with political land mines and something they seem to be unwilling to undertake. So instead of attacking the root cause of rising costs they seek to instead implement an unaffordable band-aid at the taxpayers expense for the sole purpose of buying votes.

Tell me something; how much do you pay for your wife's insurance and healthcare per year? I was paying $6000 per year between premiums and out of pocket to cover deductibles. That was just for myself, not including my kids coverage. Now, it will cost me around $16,000 per year. Going without insurance, it will cost me around $4000 per year for the care I need. Of course, I would no longer have the insurance covering me in case my condition becomes critical. It likely will not, so I'll go without. However, if I do all of a sudden need a new liver, I'll be left to die, and my kids will lose the only surviving parent they have.

Around $7200 a year, however I also incur a great deal of cost in deductibles for care and prescriptions, I haven't totaled it all up this year but it's well over $1000. I sympathize with your situation I really do and would gladly help someone in your situation voluntarily, my beef comes when others want to use the government to put a gun to my head and try and make me do it, especially when I KNOW that the current proposal on the table in Washington D.C. is completely unaffordable and will just saddle future generations with additional crushing debt.

What bothers me is that these companies only care about their bottom line. If it wasn't for other existing laws such as Hipaa, they would deny even more.

Well not to sound callous but if they didn't care about their bottom line they wouldn't have a bottom line to care about, and their costs include a whole range of items that are derived directly from government regulation, do the objectives of those regulations justify the costs they entail? are the regulations achieving those objectives they were created for? are the regulations generating unintended negative unintended consequences? Nobody knows because the government (both federal and state) seem to only want to operate in two modes regulation for regulations sake or deregulation for deregulations sake.

The increased cost is due to the fact that I am uninsurable through normal underwriting due to pre-existing conditions. Of course, Anthem told me I would not have to go through underwriting and that I would be issued a plan as close to my old plan as possible and at a comparable rate. After I moved and put the paperwork through, they then told me they were wrong, and that I could only receive a policy that is guarantee issue. Well the rates on guarantee issue are astronomically high, so high that I can't afford them.

The plan they offered me and then the add on for my kids would cost me $14,000 per year in premiums plus an additional $4000 to $6000 out of pocket with a maximum out of pocket total of around $28,000 per year.

The biggest issue is that I had insurance at a decent price. Had I not moved, I would not be in this situation. The bottom line is that at the rate we are going, no one will be able to afford healthcare for much longer. When that happens, we will see all kinds of rationing.

When we look at the overall numbers, we see that the medium household income in the US is around $45,000. If we add the employer funded amount of approximately $9000 toward health insurance for a family of four, that brings total compensation to $54,000 per year. Of that, $12,000 per year goes to health insurance premiums, $3000 covered by the individual. Add in out of pocket expenses of $1000 per year for the average family, and we see that the average family is spending $13,000 out of their $54,000 on healthcare or 24% of their total income. Add to that the combined 2.8% going toward Medicare, and we hit nearly 27% of total income going toward healthcare.

Now, we know that healthcare costs have doubled in the last 30 years in real dollars and percentage of income, and it is predicted to double again in the next 20 to 25 years. In other words, within the next 20 to 25 years, half of the US population will be paying over 50% of their earnings toward healthcare. Understanding this leads to the realization that this system is completely unsustainable. It is going to collapse. When it does, everyone will be effected, including those who may still be able to afford it.

Currently, we have a substantial percentage of people who are uninsured. That is only going to increase dramatically to the point that eventually half of our population will be without coverage. Without coverage, less services will be rendered and availability of services will be decreased even to those who can afford it.

So what will happen? The only thing that can happen. Healthcare will be rationed.

 

[Oddball]

All of which works off of the presupposition that everyone has a right to have a third person cover their medical expenses.

 

[MaggieMae]

I don't want nor need healthcare insurance. I pay all my medical expenses in cash. So you can take your health insurance and stick it up Obama's ass.

Must be they do things different in Texas. (Well, yes...) Most doctor's offices are reluctant to take on new patients without insurance, even if that person flashes a wad. Why? Because maybe next visit, or the one thereafer, the one where he's diagnosed with something serious and expensive, will find the same bloke broke. Then the doc is up a creek without a paddle.

 

[MaggieMae]

The government could put everyone on a level playing field by ending the discrimination that exists in pricing by removing group discounts and by making it mandatory for everyone to be accepted that wants to purchase a network plan.

You mean kinda like how the Federal Government mandated banks make home loans to indviduals that weren't creditworthy? how well did that one work out?

Where do you think the Federal Government derives any authority to tell privately owned businesses who they must do business with and the terms of the transaction? Would it be ok if the government mandated that you must allow any individual to stay in your home for whatever price they were willing to pay just because the individual wanted to? The constitution does not grant the federal government the authority to out and out steal from private companies no matter how altruistic anybody thinks the objective of the theft may be.

Healthcare is not a constitutionally protected right, therfor it's a priviledge which one must earn in order to recieve and stealing from your fellow citizens doesn't constitute earning it.

The Constitution doesn't specifically provide for a lot of things you now enjoy and couldn't live without--like paved roads and Internet access. Frankly, I'm sick of seeing people USE the Constitution as their crutch.

 

[MaggieMae]

Let's examine:

The Federal Government mandating banks make home loans to individuals that aren't creditworthy vs. people continuing to rent / stay in their current homes / live with family or friends.

The Federal Government mandating health care providers provide health care to individuals that aren't healthworthy vs. people continuing to suffer and die.

I see a difference.

Right...And under the medical fascism model, gubmint bureaucrats will be the ones deciding who is "healthworty" and who isn't.

Hope that makes you feel better.

Still trying to spread that lie, I see. That bogus claim has of course been completely misconstrued, and yet, ironically, private health insurers have been TELLING YOU for decades whether or not you are deemed "healthworthy" and whether or not you will be allowed to have certain procedures done. But because it is "private" companies doing just that, it's fine. Correct?

 

[MaggieMae]

You mean kinda like how the Federal Government mandated banks make home loans to indviduals that weren't creditworthy? how well did that one work out?

Let's examine:

The Federal Government mandating banks make home loans to individuals that aren't creditworthy vs. people continuing to rent / stay in their current homes / live with family or friends.

The Federal Government mandating health care providers provide health care to individuals that aren't healthworthy vs. people continuing to suffer and die.

I see a difference.

Actually you don't because there isn't one, it's a mirage planted in your mind by government propaganda. Theft by force is still theft by force, doesn't matter what the rational is behind your theft is or who you decide to steal from, it's still theft.

Nobody plans to FORCE you to do a ******* thing, moron.

 

[MaggieMae]

And as we live within a great democratic process in the United States, we choose who governs us. I do feel much better about that.

That's your problem.

By what authority do you presuppose that what makes you feel good should be forced upon everyone else, at gunpoint if necessary, tovarich??

But but but, isn't forcing government at gunpoint more of a Russian thing? Dude?

 

[MaggieMae]

I guess you're lucky that neither you, your wife, or kids never had to face a life threatening illness. I have though. My wife died from leukemia and I have health issues that could shorten my life considerably without the proper care. But as I said before, until it effects you personally, it's no big deal, because again, you completely lack any vision.

Had one of your kids been diagnosed with leukemia, and you been denied treatment for them, tell me you would have been just fine with them dying. Your so full of shit it's coming out every orifice of your body.

Soooo....Now the cat's out of the bag!!

There is in fact something in it for you to live at the expense of everyone else.

Ideological indeed.

Sometimes you are so off-the-wall out there, I wonder if you just smoke it or stick it in your arm.