Hayes: We Are No Longer Able To Tax The Very Rich In Our Country

[expat_panama]

...Increasing minimum wage during bad unemployment economies is a good idea...

The hell you say. Outlawing the hiring of low wage workers not only contracts the economy in general, it's viciously cruel to low wage workers.

 

[Sallow]

What's particularly disgusting is the implication that it's the government's or anybody else's business as to what a person does with his AFTER TAX income.

When the accumulation of excessive after-tax wealth imparts a destabilizing effect on a nation's economy and social structure it becomes the business of the People who are affected by the imbalance.

how does some people having (lots of) money harm anybody else? Rich people do not "owe" anybody else their money. If they do help anybody else, then they are being generous. And you (or whomsoever they helped) say "thanks for the tip". Or, you could be rude, and just say "...and... ?"

Meanwhile, minimum wages have outlawed, criminalized, banned, and prohibited, millions of potential jobs. Eliminating minimum wages would regenerate those jobs, creating income opportunity for many Americans; and investment opportunities for other Americans. Simplistically, restaurants could expand into lower income communities, hiring people there for several dollars per hour. And, to build those restaurants, they would borrow investment funding from higher income areas. Even more jobs would be created whilst they built the restaurant, or renovated some pre-existing building. The restaurant would open, turn profits, paying workers, and repaying investors. Profitable economic activity, currently outlawed, would regenerate, regrowing the economy, hiring millions of Americans, and profiting those who invested in their growing markets.

Currently, "remote faceless Authority", of seemingly unknown, unidentified, and uncertain origin, Decrees that that is "bad". But it would be good (for the locals).

The problem is not volume but distribution.

Real wages are as high, or higher, than ever.

Really? Not according to CNN:

(Excerpt)

Incomes for 90% of Americans have been stuck in neutral, and it's not just because of the Great Recession. Middle-class incomes have been stagnant for at least a generation, while the wealthiest tier has surged ahead at lighting speed.

In 1988, the income of an average American taxpayer was $33,400, adjusted for inflation. Fast forward 20 years, and not much had changed: The average income was still just $33,000 in 2008, according to IRS data.

Meanwhile, the richest 1% of Americans...

So, average Americans are still earning incomes as high as ever. $30K per year is allot of money, especially compared to developing nations. If you can point to a few rich Americans, and say "bad"; then can i point to many many poor foreigners? Am i supposed to say "good"?

Envy about O.P.M. is not legitimate, especially whilst ongoing conflicts, in the Congo, have killed over 6 million people to date (for example). For every "greener lawn in uptown" you are paying attention to, there are numerous "blood spattered battlefields in Timbuktu" you (seem) not to be paying attention to. "That grass is so green, woe is me" is not legitimate. Pretend you had to talk to Hutus & Tutsis in Rwanda. Now what?

So, meanwhile, eliminating minimum wage laws, would regenerate millions of (low pay) jobs, across the US, recreating income opportunities for millions, and investment opportunities for others. Everybody would make (at least a little) money. And nobody would die. If anybody has any better suggestions, then i "yield the floor".

To your first point..concentrating wealth's detrimental effect has been seen throughout history. Notably, in the US..what it has done is to shift power to those with the most wealth. Wealth provides access to the government to those who have it..and denies access to those who don't.

Eliminating minimum wage..would have one effect..and one effect only. People would be paid close to nothing for labor. Minimum wage didn't happen because someone said "Lets be mean to owners". It happened because of greed. Simple as that.

 

[Sallow]

"Societies that are in decline or low on the development index have a very hard time extracting money, taxing money from the elites in their society. And that is the direction which we are headed and that is what is represented in the Mitt Romney tax return," he concluded.

True, there is nothing illegal about how Romney pays his taxes, and of course that was never at issue, or should never have been at issue.

At issue is Romney’s inability, or unwillingness, to be honest as to the great advantage his wealth affords him, and the overall adverse effect that advantage has on the economy overall.

Which is part of the reason Romney won't release his taxes.

Romney is not atypical..but Business as usual. People would probably be shocked to find how little he pays in taxes..and what type of deductions are permitted.

 

[daveman]

...Increasing minimum wage during bad unemployment economies is a good idea...

The hell you say. Outlawing the hiring of low wage workers not only contracts the economy in general, it's viciously cruel to low wage workers.

I don't the hell say. Rshermr the hell said.

 

[daveman]

"Societies that are in decline or low on the development index have a very hard time extracting money, taxing money from the elites in their society. And that is the direction which we are headed and that is what is represented in the Mitt Romney tax return," he concluded.

True, there is nothing illegal about how Romney pays his taxes, and of course that was never at issue, or should never have been at issue.

At issue is Romney’s inability, or unwillingness, to be honest as to the great advantage his wealth affords him, and the overall adverse effect that advantage has on the economy overall.

Which is part of the reason Romney won't release his taxes.

Romney is not atypical..but Business as usual. People would probably be shocked to find how little he pays in taxes..and what type of deductions are permitted.

I'll bet he doesn't take any deductions that Soros, Pelosi, Kerry, and other wealthy Democrats don't take.

But that's different. Somehow. It just is. Right?

 

[Friends]

Tax cuts generated jobs, spurred production, and made more people more money:

When Warren G. Harding was inaugurated in 1921 the top tax rate was 73%.

By Calvin Coolidge's last full year in office in 1928 the top tax rate had declined to 25%.

Historical Top Tax Rate

In 1921 the per capita gross domestic product in terms of 1996 dollars was $5,758. By 1928 that had grown to $7,439. This represented a growth of $1,681, or 29%.

From 1920 to 1928 unemployment declined one percent. The Great Depression followed.

United States Unemployment Rate 1920–2010 — Infoplease.com

During Franklin Roosevelt's first term the top tax rate increased from 63% in 1933 to 79% in 1936.

When Roosevelt was inaugurated in 1933 the per capita GDP in terms of 1996 dollars was $4,804. During the last full year of Roosevelt's first term that had risen to $6,423. This represented a growth of $1,619, or 33.7%. There was nearly as much economic growth during Roosevelt's first term as during the two terms of Harding and Coolidge in absolute terms, and more in terms of percentage.

During Roosevelt's first term the unemployment rate declined 6.7%.

During the administration of Jimmy Carter the top tax rate was 70%. During the administration of Ronald Reagan that declined to 28%.

During the administration of Carter an average of 2,600,000 jobs were created per year. During the administration of Reagan that declined to 2,000,000.

Bush On Jobs: The Worst Track Record On Record - Real Time Economics - WSJ

In other words, Widdekind, your assertion is false.

 

[expat_panama]

...I don't the hell say. Rshermr the hell said.

dang, I HATE it when I do that.


I think I'm going to throw up...

 

[Rshermr]

Yup, many, many better ideas. decreasing minimum wage is a great way to de stimulate the economy. Increasing minimum wage during bad unemployment economies is a good idea. So say almost all non partisan economists. Creating demand through government spending is the only way our economy has ever recovered from high unemployment.
If anyone has other provable ideas, let me know.

Minimum Wage Laws Hurt the Poor and Help the Unions | All American Blogger

Lots of links in there. To credible sources.

All sorts of right wingers there. It is a right wing BLOG site. Maybe I should post a link to move on. But then, I won't, because it would lack integrity.

 

[Rshermr]

Minimum Wage Laws Hurt the Poor and Help the Unions | All American Blogger

In 1979, the real (inflation adjusted) minimum wage was $8 per hour, and 8% of workers earned minimum wage or less. In 2005, the real minimum wage was $5 per hour (effectively reduced by inflation), and less than 2% of workers earned that amount or less. From those figures, increasing the minimum wage by +3 dollars per hour ($5 --> $8) affects over 6% of workers, or about 2% of the workforce per dollar of minimum wage increase.

Now, since 2008, the minimum wage has been increased to over $7 dollars per hour. And, unemployment has increased, too. Simplistically, jobs for 14% of the workforce could be recreated, by eliminating the minimum wage entirely. Millions of Americans could earn some more money as income. Thousands of businesses could earn some more money as profit. And their investors could earn some more money as returns on investment. All would be potential voters.

Well, I do not know about that. But eons ago there were dinosaurs. And people ate raw meat in large amounts. Today, we eat little raw meat. And the dinosaurs are gone. If we would just start eating more raw meat, the dinosaurs would reappear.

Cause and effect, Widdlekind. Stupid post.

 

[Friends]

Yup, many, many better ideas. decreasing minimum wage is a great way to de stimulate the economy. Increasing minimum wage during bad unemployment economies is a good idea. So say almost all non partisan economists. Creating demand through government spending is the only way our economy has ever recovered from high unemployment.
If anyone has other provable ideas, let me know.

Minimum Wage Laws Hurt the Poor and Help the Unions | All American Blogger

Lots of links in there. To credible sources.

All sorts of right wingers there. It is a right wing BLOG site. Maybe I should post a link to move on. But then, I won't, because it would lack integrity.

During periods of high and persistent unemployment increasing the income of low wage workers through increases in the minimum wage and through strengthening labor unions is economically beneficial. So are government work projects like the Civilian Conservation Core, and the Federal Writers' Project. By creating better consumers these encourage employers to produce more and to hire more to make and produce what they sell.

 

[expat_panama]

...increasing the income of low wage workers through increases in the minimum wage...

Lot's of people think that, so you're in really good company.

Only it's not true. Minimum wage laws do not increase wages. MWL's can only make it illegal to hire low wage workers and it's physically impossible for a gov't to make a business pay more for labor than it's worth.

 

[Sallow]

...increasing the income of low wage workers through increases in the minimum wage...

Lot's of people think that, so you're in really good company.

Only it's not true. Minimum wage laws do not increase wages. MWL's can only make it illegal to hire low wage workers and it's physically impossible for a gov't to make a business pay more for labor than it's worth.

I'd love government to get out of the way of Labor/Executive relations.

You?

 

[expat_panama]

...Minimum wage laws do not increase wages. MWL's can only make it illegal to hire low wage workers and it's physically impossible for a gov't to make a business pay more for labor than it's worth.

I'd love government to get out of the way of Labor/Executive relations. You?

I'm sorry but I totally missed the joke, but seriously, we probably both already agree that business can't exist without governments and governments can't exist without business. It's just like a family.



--always fighting.

 

[Widdekind]

workers need to "put themselves in employers' shoes", and think like bosses. If the prices of hamburgers, haircuts, or taxis were suddenly increased (by government mandate), then would people "automatically" pay the new, higher prices? Or, would people say "haircuts cost $100, no way, i'll use a bowl and scissors before i pay that" ?

Or, perhaps more simply, workers might imagine directly asking their bosses, to their faces, for pay-raises, up to the government minimum wage. What response would workers expect to receive, if they walked into boss' office, and demanded $10/hour? If boss would fire workers, individually, at that price; then boss would fire the whole workforce, and close up shop, if (with government help) the whole workforce asked for $10/hour, via minimum wage laws.

Every worker already thinks about asking for raises, whenever they're working. Overall, workers already are paid what they're worth (economically). (Unless there's government repression.) Big Brother demanding boss raise wages is "shaking down businesses", which only tears down thousands of shops & millions of jobs. Long-term economic growth will not result, from "beating up on" businesses.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

This is not a problem that can be solved by lower taxes, and less government. Unfortunately, many lower income whites who are angry about declining living standards would rather direct that anger horizontally and downward than upward. They would rather blame their economic decline on confiscatory taxes designed to pay for welfare checks for blacks than acknowledge that in an increasingly competitive economy they have little of value to offer an employer.

You're a racist IDIOT.

And an absolutely perfect asshole.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

The inconvenient truth is there is nothing illegal about Mitt Romney's tax returns. It's BAU. Hayes hits the nail on the head squarely with this. The very rich not only personally game the system, but they game it for others within their circle. They don't create wealth..the extract and horde it. The tax code was created by shills bought by the elite. And this economy is the economy they paid for..one in which labor has little or no power. This, perhaps, is the real lesson of history. Pooling money upward, eventually leads to the decline of society..almost every single time. No top heavy society survives for very long.

Hayes: We Are No Longer Able To Tax The Very Rich In Our Country | RealClearPolitics

No top heavy society survives for very long.

Problem is, the rw's really do believe that if they suck up long enough, buy enough lottery tickets, vote for the one percenters who actually hate and ridicule them, they too will be rich one day.

Poor dumb fools are gonna take us all down with them.

 

[Widdekind]

No top heavy society survives for very long.

more money, would flow to more poor Americans, if the low-pay labor, that they were able to offer, were de-criminalized, by eliminating minimum wage laws. Job Prohibition, of low-pay jobs, bans & outlaws gainful employment, to millions of Americans. More money would flow to them, as income from gainful work, if they were allowed to work, for what they are (now) worth, today. (By tomorrow, they would gain employment skills, and be able to move "up", to higher pay positions.)

 

[daveman]

...I don't the hell say. Rshermr the hell said.

dang, I HATE it when I do that.


I think I'm going to throw up...

Don't you mean "throw the hell up"?

No worries, dood.

 

[daveman]

Yup, many, many better ideas. decreasing minimum wage is a great way to de stimulate the economy. Increasing minimum wage during bad unemployment economies is a good idea. So say almost all non partisan economists. Creating demand through government spending is the only way our economy has ever recovered from high unemployment.
If anyone has other provable ideas, let me know.

Minimum Wage Laws Hurt the Poor and Help the Unions | All American Blogger

Lots of links in there. To credible sources.

All sorts of right wingers there. It is a right wing BLOG site. Maybe I should post a link to move on. But then, I won't, because it would lack integrity.

http://www.bls.gov/cps/minwage2005.pdf is right wing blog?

http://www.aflcio.org/issues/jobseconomy/livingwages/ is a right wing blog?

Just go ahead and admit you didn't read anything on the site. You may as well try being honest.

 

[daveman]

The inconvenient truth is there is nothing illegal about Mitt Romney's tax returns. It's BAU. Hayes hits the nail on the head squarely with this. The very rich not only personally game the system, but they game it for others within their circle. They don't create wealth..the extract and horde it. The tax code was created by shills bought by the elite. And this economy is the economy they paid for..one in which labor has little or no power. This, perhaps, is the real lesson of history. Pooling money upward, eventually leads to the decline of society..almost every single time. No top heavy society survives for very long.

Hayes: We Are No Longer Able To Tax The Very Rich In Our Country | RealClearPolitics

No top heavy society survives for very long.

Problem is, the rw's really do believe that if they suck up long enough, buy enough lottery tickets, vote for the one percenters who actually hate and ridicule them, they too will be rich one day.

Poor dumb fools are gonna take us all down with them.

I forget: Which particular The Man do you claim is keeping you down so you can excuse your own failures in life?