What's new
US Message Board 🦅 Political Discussion Forum

Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Have sanctions against Russia boomeranged?

Doc7505

Diamond Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2016
Messages
10,727
Reaction score
17,727
Points
2,430
Location
North Carolina

Have sanctions against Russia boomeranged?

5 Jul 2022 ~~ By Brahma Chellaney

Western leaders are beginning to recognize, if not openly acknowledge, that their unprecedented sanctions against Moscow are hurting their own countries’ economies without significantly crimping the Kremlin’s war machine.

The fallout from the U.S.-led sanctions on Russia has ended the era of cheap oil and gas and contributed to surging inflation, supply-chain disruptions and a looming recession in the West. In poorer countries, by sending fuel and food prices higher, the sanctions are threatening livelihoods and political stability.

As the West is now discovering, sanctions against a large, powerful state not only entail significant costs for the countries imposing them, but they also reward nations that refuse to enforce them. Indeed, the sanctions have delivered Russia a windfall from high-price energy exports that no Western-sponsored price cap can significantly roll back.
Claims that “Russia is losing” and that “Putin is running out of options to avoid defeat” have given way to open concern that, despite the unparalleled sanctions on Moscow and the frenzied arming of Ukraine, Russia will end up gaining permanent control over sizable Ukrainian territories, thereby unambiguously demonstrating that aggression works.
Western leaders clearly overestimated their capacity to undermine the Russian economy and Putin’s hold on power, while underestimating the resilience of a country that historically has endured extraordinary economic and human toll (including in World War II) to pursue strategic objectives.
With European gas prices already six times higher than a year ago, a possible Russian cutoff of gas supplies to punish the EU for sanctions will compound the already-grim European economic situation.
Meanwhile, spiraling international food prices are contributing to an alarming hunger problem in poor countries. But worse in global impact is the sanctions-linked disruption in supplies of fertilizers and wheat from the world’s No. 1 exporter of both, Russia.
~Snip~
This is redolent of how America’s 1930 Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act, by substantially raising import duties and prompting other countries to retaliate, deepened the Great Depression and contributed to the rise of political extremism, which then enabled Adolf Hitler to gain power. The risk now is that, instead of the wished-for economic collapse and regime change in Russia, the Western sanctions campaign could transform global geopolitics by provoking a Russian nationalist backlash and cementing the Sino-Russian axis.


Commentary:
What are the odds that every one of Joe Biden's actions during 2021 have led up to the boomeranging of Sanctions against Putin's Russia?
Indeed, Biden and his Maoist Democrat handlers have created one clusterfuck after another throughout the year in a half of his tenor, both domestically and in Foreign Relations. Whether that has been total incompetence or intent is open to discussion.
Certainly, Biden's have driven America to the point of what everyone is calling a Repression when all I see is a Economic Depression greater than the decade of the 1930's depression more than 90 years ago.


Joey has summed it up in one word.
 

Samofvt

Platinum Member
Joined
Aug 9, 2021
Messages
878
Reaction score
818
Points
898
Definitely not. Russia has an extremely small influence on the economy of the USA. We produce better vodka and better space craft here. The only reason we've been doing business with them at all (despite inferior products) is because of the good will between nations that was inspired by Reagan.

China, on the other hand, is a massive player. A move by China shakes our ground.

Not to worry: China depends on USA for capital as much as we depend on them for gross products (poorly made and at an extreme hazard to their environment and the global atmosphere due to their gross negligence of such things). If they wanted to deal USA a bad blow, they would have to manipulate the market at an opportune time. That time has passed and it seems they wasted their shot at destabilizing our economy after the CHINA virus. We've already shaken most of the supply chain effects off, and are dealing with our own stupidity regarding the extra "bail out package" authored by the big guy, which has caused the current inflationary turmoil.

After watching and reading the current headlines, I am more worried about the Russian state of mind and the growing sentiment on their part that a pre-emptive nuclear strike will "bring the US to the bargaining table".

By the way, congratulations to the liberal f***'s who are bringing our once great country closer and closer to the same sort of government ownership of everything that has caused Russia to become the threat that it is. "good going", idiots.
 

toomuchtime_

Gold Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2008
Messages
15,884
Reaction score
2,840
Points
280

Have sanctions against Russia boomeranged?

5 Jul 2022 ~~ By Brahma Chellaney

Western leaders are beginning to recognize, if not openly acknowledge, that their unprecedented sanctions against Moscow are hurting their own countries’ economies without significantly crimping the Kremlin’s war machine.

The fallout from the U.S.-led sanctions on Russia has ended the era of cheap oil and gas and contributed to surging inflation, supply-chain disruptions and a looming recession in the West. In poorer countries, by sending fuel and food prices higher, the sanctions are threatening livelihoods and political stability.

As the West is now discovering, sanctions against a large, powerful state not only entail significant costs for the countries imposing them, but they also reward nations that refuse to enforce them. Indeed, the sanctions have delivered Russia a windfall from high-price energy exports that no Western-sponsored price cap can significantly roll back.
Claims that “Russia is losing” and that “Putin is running out of options to avoid defeat” have given way to open concern that, despite the unparalleled sanctions on Moscow and the frenzied arming of Ukraine, Russia will end up gaining permanent control over sizable Ukrainian territories, thereby unambiguously demonstrating that aggression works.
Western leaders clearly overestimated their capacity to undermine the Russian economy and Putin’s hold on power, while underestimating the resilience of a country that historically has endured extraordinary economic and human toll (including in World War II) to pursue strategic objectives.
With European gas prices already six times higher than a year ago, a possible Russian cutoff of gas supplies to punish the EU for sanctions will compound the already-grim European economic situation.
Meanwhile, spiraling international food prices are contributing to an alarming hunger problem in poor countries. But worse in global impact is the sanctions-linked disruption in supplies of fertilizers and wheat from the world’s No. 1 exporter of both, Russia.
~Snip~
This is redolent of how America’s 1930 Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act, by substantially raising import duties and prompting other countries to retaliate, deepened the Great Depression and contributed to the rise of political extremism, which then enabled Adolf Hitler to gain power. The risk now is that, instead of the wished-for economic collapse and regime change in Russia, the Western sanctions campaign could transform global geopolitics by provoking a Russian nationalist backlash and cementing the Sino-Russian axis.


Commentary:
What are the odds that every one of Joe Biden's actions during 2021 have led up to the boomeranging of Sanctions against Putin's Russia?
Indeed, Biden and his Maoist Democrat handlers have created one clusterfuck after another throughout the year in a half of his tenor, both domestically and in Foreign Relations. Whether that has been total incompetence or intent is open to discussion.
Certainly, Biden's have driven America to the point of what everyone is calling a Repression when all I see is a Economic Depression greater than the decade of the 1930's depression more than 90 years ago.


Joey has summed it up in one word.
That may be how things look at The Hill, but according to Russia's Prime Minister Russia's economy is in a slump because of the sanctions but it is not yet a crisis.


And

Russian lawmakers on Tuesday gave the first stamp of approval to two bills that would authorize the government to oblige businesses to supply the military with goods and their employees to work overtime to support Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.

Deputy Prime Minister Yuri Borisov told parliament the moves were driven by the need to support the military at a time when Russia’s economy was under “colossal sanctions pressure” from the West, more than four months into what it calls its special military operation in Ukraine.

“The load on the defense industry has increased significantly. In order to guarantee the supply of weapons and ammunition, it is necessary to optimize the work of the military-industrial complex and enterprises that are part of cooperation chains,” he said.


So in less than four months the sanctions, according to the Russian government, have pushed the Russian economy into a decline and has forced the Russian government to partially restructure its economy for fear it will not be able to produce the weapons and ammunition it needs to pursue its war in Ukraine. It gladdens my heart to think what damage the sanctions will do to Putin's economy and war efforts in another four months.

The high price of food and fuel are entirely due to Putin's willingness to use food and fuel to try to bully his way around all the laws and treaties he is violating and not to the sanctions.

The takeaway from this is: sanctions good, very good and Putin's Russia, bad, very very bad.
 
OP
Doc7505

Doc7505

Diamond Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2016
Messages
10,727
Reaction score
17,727
Points
2,430
Location
North Carolina
That may be how things look at The Hill, but according to Russia's Prime Minister Russia's economy is in a slump because of the sanctions but it is not yet a crisis.


And

Russian lawmakers on Tuesday gave the first stamp of approval to two bills that would authorize the government to oblige businesses to supply the military with goods and their employees to work overtime to support Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.

Deputy Prime Minister Yuri Borisov told parliament the moves were driven by the need to support the military at a time when Russia’s economy was under “colossal sanctions pressure” from the West, more than four months into what it calls its special military operation in Ukraine.

“The load on the defense industry has increased significantly. In order to guarantee the supply of weapons and ammunition, it is necessary to optimize the work of the military-industrial complex and enterprises that are part of cooperation chains,” he said.


So in less than four months the sanctions, according to the Russian government, have pushed the Russian economy into a decline and has forced the Russian government to partially restructure its economy for fear it will not be able to produce the weapons and ammunition it needs to pursue its war in Ukraine. It gladdens my heart to think what damage the sanctions will do to Putin's economy and war efforts in another four months.

The high price of food and fuel are entirely due to Putin's willingness to use food and fuel to try to bully his way around all the laws and treaties he is violating and not to the sanctions.

The takeaway from this is: sanctions good, very good and Putin's Russia, bad, very very bad.


~~~~~~
Despite the Sanctions against Russia, The Ruble is now stronger that the U.S. Dollar...
**********​
 

Baron

Platinum Member
Joined
Sep 19, 2008
Messages
11,504
Reaction score
5,537
Points
370
Location
Brooklyn, NYC

Have sanctions against Russia boomeranged?

5 Jul 2022 ~~ By Brahma Chellaney

Western leaders are beginning to recognize, if not openly acknowledge, that their unprecedented sanctions against Moscow are hurting their own countries’ economies without significantly crimping the Kremlin’s war machine.

Unfortunately the late remorse can change nothing

1. Russia will include in Russia Ukraine, a part of Lithuania, Moldova and Poland
2, The war between NATO and Russia is unavoidable
3. USA will not fight for the stupid Europa
 

zaangalewa

Gold Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2015
Messages
14,689
Reaction score
1,277
Points
140
Unfortunately the late remorse can change nothing

1. Russia will include in Russia Ukraine, a part of Lithuania, Moldova and Poland
2, The war between NATO and Russia is unavoidable
3. USA will not fight for the stupid Europa

If you think so, Russian.
 

toomuchtime_

Gold Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2008
Messages
15,884
Reaction score
2,840
Points
280
~~~~~~
Despite the Sanctions against Russia, The Ruble is now stronger that the U.S. Dollar...
**********​
The strength of the ruble is not the result of a strong Russian economy but of Putin's law preventing Russians from converting their rubles into euros or dollars and Putin's demand that Russian gas be paid for in rubles. As I pointed out, the Russian government is now acknowledging the powerful effect the sanctions are already having on the Russian economy after only four months and is trying to compensate by passing emergency legislation to try to counteract this effect.
 
OP
Doc7505

Doc7505

Diamond Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2016
Messages
10,727
Reaction score
17,727
Points
2,430
Location
North Carolina
The strength of the ruble is not the result of a strong Russian economy but of Putin's law preventing Russians from converting their rubles into euros or dollars and Putin's demand that Russian gas be paid for in rubles. As I pointed out, the Russian government is now acknowledging the powerful effect the sanctions are already having on the Russian economy after only four months and is trying to compensate by passing emergency legislation to try to counteract this effect.

~~~~~~

As of today, the value of the Russian Ruble is up 0.77% against the US dollar.
 

ESay

Gold Member
Joined
Mar 14, 2015
Messages
6,307
Reaction score
1,059
Points
140
The official exchange rate of the Soviet ruble to the US Dollar was 0.71 rubles for 1 dollar.
 

toomuchtime_

Gold Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2008
Messages
15,884
Reaction score
2,840
Points
280

gipper

Libertarian/Anarchist
Gold Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2011
Messages
50,471
Reaction score
21,085
Points
2,290
And clearly you have no idea what that means
ESay
If you look at media reports from independent sources, the Russian economy is doing rather well


Washington’s Sanctions War Kneecaps the West, Not Russia​

by David Stockman Posted on June 28, 2022

In all, Washington’s waves of penalties, ranging from sanctions on Russian officials and oligarchs to export controls to sanctions on major Russian banks, have not turned the ruble to rubble or even remotely crushed the Russian economy.

To the contrary, the Russian ruble, which Biden gladly mocked back in February, has since risen to a seven-year high against the euro.


As for "punishing" Russia, here is a chart of the US versus Russian current account balance: The record surplus belongs to Russia, the plunging deficit was made in Washington.

Current Account Surplus/Deficit: Russia Versus the USA, 1999-2022


At the end of the day, Washington has knee-capped western economies and American consumers especially. At the time of the February 24th invasion, the index of global commodities stood at 203, exactly at the economically-driven July 2008 global commodities peak
 

Richard-H

Gold Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2008
Messages
8,071
Reaction score
2,220
Points
245
Definitely not. Russia has an extremely small influence on the economy of the USA. We produce better vodka and better space craft here. The only reason we've been doing business with them at all (despite inferior products) is because of the good will between nations that was inspired by Reagan.

China, on the other hand, is a massive player. A move by China shakes our ground.

Not to worry: China depends on USA for capital as much as we depend on them for gross products (poorly made and at an extreme hazard to their environment and the global atmosphere due to their gross negligence of such things). If they wanted to deal USA a bad blow, they would have to manipulate the market at an opportune time. That time has passed and it seems they wasted their shot at destabilizing our economy after the CHINA virus. We've already shaken most of the supply chain effects off, and are dealing with our own stupidity regarding the extra "bail out package" authored by the big guy, which has caused the current inflationary turmoil.

After watching and reading the current headlines, I am more worried about the Russian state of mind and the growing sentiment on their part that a pre-emptive nuclear strike will "bring the US to the bargaining table".

By the way, congratulations to the liberal f***'s who are bringing our once great country closer and closer to the same sort of government ownership of everything that has caused Russia to become the threat that it is. "good going", idiots.

What great change in government ownership has occurred recently?
 

ESay

Gold Member
Joined
Mar 14, 2015
Messages
6,307
Reaction score
1,059
Points
140
ESay
If you look at media reports from independent sources, the Russian economy is doing rather well


Washington’s Sanctions War Kneecaps the West, Not Russia​

by David Stockman Posted on June 28, 2022

In all, Washington’s waves of penalties, ranging from sanctions on Russian officials and oligarchs to export controls to sanctions on major Russian banks, have not turned the ruble to rubble or even remotely crushed the Russian economy.

To the contrary, the Russian ruble, which Biden gladly mocked back in February, has since risen to a seven-year high against the euro.


As for "punishing" Russia, here is a chart of the US versus Russian current account balance: The record surplus belongs to Russia, the plunging deficit was made in Washington.

Current Account Surplus/Deficit: Russia Versus the USA, 1999-2022


At the end of the day, Washington has knee-capped western economies and American consumers especially. At the time of the February 24th invasion, the index of global commodities stood at 203, exactly at the economically-driven July 2008 global commodities peak
The main part of sanctions (oil embargo) hasn't come into effect yet. But nevertheless, Russian economy is projected to shrink by about 10% at the end of the year.

Except of that, sanctions against Russia serve not only economic purpose. They are designed to push Russia out of Europe.

The world enters a new phase, something like it was in the Cold war era.
 

gipper

Libertarian/Anarchist
Gold Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2011
Messages
50,471
Reaction score
21,085
Points
2,290
The main part of sanctions (oil embargo) hasn't come into effect yet. But nevertheless, Russian economy is projected to shrink by about 10% at the end of the year.

Except of that, sanctions against Russia serve not only economic purpose. They are designed to push Russia out of Europe.

The world enters a new phase, something like it was in the Cold war era.
Doubt that.
 

toomuchtime_

Gold Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2008
Messages
15,884
Reaction score
2,840
Points
280
ESay
If you look at media reports from independent sources, the Russian economy is doing rather well


Washington’s Sanctions War Kneecaps the West, Not Russia​

by David Stockman Posted on June 28, 2022

In all, Washington’s waves of penalties, ranging from sanctions on Russian officials and oligarchs to export controls to sanctions on major Russian banks, have not turned the ruble to rubble or even remotely crushed the Russian economy.

To the contrary, the Russian ruble, which Biden gladly mocked back in February, has since risen to a seven-year high against the euro.


As for "punishing" Russia, here is a chart of the US versus Russian current account balance: The record surplus belongs to Russia, the plunging deficit was made in Washington.

Current Account Surplus/Deficit: Russia Versus the USA, 1999-2022


At the end of the day, Washington has knee-capped western economies and American consumers especially. At the time of the February 24th invasion, the index of global commodities stood at 203, exactly at the economically-driven July 2008 global commodities peak
And yet the Russian Prime minister and Deputy PM believe the sanctions have pushed the Russian economy into a decline and threatened the Russian war effort. You need to contact them right away to set them straight.

Mihail Mishustin, Prime Minister of the Russian Federation, admitted to a "certain slump" in the Russian economy in the fifth month of Russia’s war against Ukraine and of Western sanctions against Russia.

Source: Meduza, an independent Russian news website, quoting Mishustin’s statement at an industrial exhibition

Details: The head of the Russian government said that "there is a certain slump in some sectors", but noted that it was not to a "critical point".


RUSSIAN lawmakers on Tuesday (July 5) gave the first stamp of approval to 2 Bills that would authorise the government to oblige businesses to supply the military with goods and their employees to work overtime to support Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.

Deputy Prime Minister Yuri Borisov told Parliament the moves were driven by the need to support the military at a time when Russia’s economy was under “colossal sanctions pressure” from the West, more than four months into what it calls its special military operation in Ukraine.


Contact them right away and tell them they have it all wrong.
 

Samofvt

Platinum Member
Joined
Aug 9, 2021
Messages
878
Reaction score
818
Points
898
What great change in government ownership has occurred recently?
Here? Not much change, really. We were trying to clean the swamp out, but those corrupt fools have used every trick in the book, including election fraud, spying, countless baseless accusations, lying under oath, and advertising campaigns produced by the best propaganda artists in the industry. [though they should have gotten the team that produces Judge Judy...she's got better ratings...plus the plot sucks on the latest version of the dumb and dumber show since we already know the result is a big nothingburger: no suspense]
 

Richard-H

Gold Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2008
Messages
8,071
Reaction score
2,220
Points
245
Here? Not much change, really. We were trying to clean the swamp out, but those corrupt fools have used every trick in the book, including election fraud, spying, countless baseless accusations, lying under oath, and advertising campaigns produced by the best propaganda artists in the industry. [though they should have gotten the team that produces Judge Judy...she's got better ratings...plus the plot sucks on the latest version of the dumb and dumber show since we already know the result is a big nothingburger: no suspense]

The Jan. 6 committee, the DOJ and several state AGs are working on cleaning out the swamp, punishing corruption and election fraud, and prosecuting people for lying under oath, not to mention Treason against the U.S.A.

So you should be pretty happy with the way things are going.
 

Rogue AI

Diamond Member
Joined
Oct 16, 2020
Messages
6,287
Reaction score
6,574
Points
1,938
Location
Wisconsin
The strength of the ruble is not the result of a strong Russian economy but of Putin's law preventing Russians from converting their rubles into euros or dollars and Putin's demand that Russian gas be paid for in rubles. As I pointed out, the Russian government is now acknowledging the powerful effect the sanctions are already having on the Russian economy after only four months and is trying to compensate by passing emergency legislation to try to counteract this effect.
That's not the problem of the boomerang effect. Sure, Russia is feeling an effect, but the West is feeling it far worse immediately with more to come shortly. Wait and see what happens when millions more Ukrainians flood Western Europe right before winter and the comprehensive projections on Ukrainian agriculture production are done. Not to mention the cost of rebuilding Ukraine, as promised by the West, continues to grow. This whole mess has barely begun.
 

toomuchtime_

Gold Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2008
Messages
15,884
Reaction score
2,840
Points
280
That's not the problem of the boomerang effect. Sure, Russia is feeling an effect, but the West is feeling it far worse immediately with more to come shortly. Wait and see what happens when millions more Ukrainians flood Western Europe right before winter and the comprehensive projections on Ukrainian agriculture production are done. Not to mention the cost of rebuilding Ukraine, as promised by the West, continues to grow. This whole mess has barely begun.
What you are describing is the result of the Russian invasion of Ukraine, not the result of the sanctions. There is no basis in fact or logic for claiming the current economic problems the world is dealing with are the result of the sanctions.
 

USMB Server Goals

Total amount
$225.00
Goal
$350.00

Most reactions - Past 7 days

Forum List

Top