Hamas leader: Nations are recognizing Palestinian state due to ‘fruits of October 7’

[Fort Fun Indiana]

No, where we differ is you think this war is just about "getting even" with Hamas for the Oct 7 massacre when it is clearly about Israel trying to defend itself by preventing Hamas and the other Gaza terrorists from being able to attack Israel again. Why do you continue to iignore the purpose of the war?

I think it started as Israel defending itself.

And now it is about conquering Gaza and driving out its population.

Just as Netanyahu said. So go disagree with him, instead of throwing a hissy fit at me.

 

[toomuchtime_]

I think it started as Israel defending itself.

And now it is about conquering Gaza and driving out its population.

Just as Netanyahu said. So go disagree with him, instead of throwing a hissy fit at me.

Now you know none of that is true, so why lie about it? The war is about disarming the terrorists so they cannot launch more attacks against Israel as you well know, and that is about Israel defending itself. And you know very well no one said anything about driving the Arabs out, so why lie about that? Israel and the US said they would facilitate the voluntary relocations of the population, something the UN had refused to do for 75 years.

I can't imagine why you would think going after Hamas is not Israel defending itself. And I can't imagine why you present yourself as supporting Israel.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Now you know none of that is true, so why lie about it?

It's true. Please go read up before commenting again. No need to engage you, when you haven't even caught up to the baseline facts of the topic.

 

[toomuchtime_]

It's true. Please go read up before commenting again. No need to engage you, when you haven't even caught up to the baseline facts of the topic.

In other words you find your claims indefensible so you refuse to try to defend them.

 

[Shusha]

I think it started as Israel defending itself.

And now it is about conquering Gaza and driving out its population.

I'm curious to understand what you think changed. Israel has always said that its goals for the war are to remove Hamas from government, dismantle the military infrastructure in Gaza, and free the hostages. I assume that you see these things as reasonable goals in line with self-defense, yes? Yet these goals have not been met, so the continued pursuit of these goals is still self-defense, yes?

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

In other words you find your claims indefensible so you refuse to try to defend them.

They are facts, as anyone else who isnt just sitting here throwing a tantrum can look up for themselves


That's all the defense I need. What you should be thinking about is why you are discussing a topic you clearly are not informed on.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

I'm curious to understand what you think changed

What changed was that Israel was not stating the goal of conquering Gaza and driving out its population, then using indiscriminate violence and starvation to do exactly that.

Maybe nothing changed in the mind of Bibi, and that was his plan from the beginning.

 

[toomuchtime_]

They are facts, as anyone else who isnt just sitting here throwing a tantrum can look up for themselves


That's all the defense I need. What you should be thinking about is why you are discussing a topic you clearly are not informed on.

We both know they are not the fact and you are the one throwing a tantrum and spewing out anti Israel propaganda.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

We both know they are not the fact and you are the one throwing a tantrum and spewing out anti Israel propaganda.

Absolute fact, direct from Bibi's mouth.



And when you find out its true, you will just defend it anyway. So you're really wasting your time right now.

 

[Shusha]

What changed was that Israel was not stating the goal of conquering Gaza and driving out its population, then using indiscriminate violence and starvation to do exactly that.

I must have missed it. Do you have a link stating an official Israeli policy of forcibly transferring the Arab Palestinian citizens of Gaza to another location? Because all I've ever heard Netanyahu say, as a matter of policy, is that those who wish to flee the war zone should not be prevented from doing so. (Something I agree with. It is unconscionable that innocent civilians should be trapped in a war zone and unable to flee.)

Could you also show me how you came to the understanding that Israel uses "indiscriminate" violence? "Indiscriminate" meaning untargeted.

Israel is facilitating aid and food into Gaza in more than sufficient amounts. Millions of meals every day, as well as hundreds of trucks. In many of the UN-operated distribution systems, the aid and food fail to reach those in need. But in the Israeli supported system, every meal is handed directly to a civilian family in need. How, then, can you argue that Israel is using starvation to achieve its goals?

 

[toomuchtime_]

Absolute fact, direct from Bibi's mouth.



And when you find out its true, you will just defend it anyway. So you're really wasting your time right now.

It seems you just can't put up a post without telling another lie.

 

[Shusha]

This is what Netanyahu said during one recent interview:

“We intend to [take control of Gaza]. We don't want to keep it. We want to have a security perimeter. We don't want to govern it. We don't want to be there as a governing body. We want to hand it over to Arab forces that will govern it properly, without threatening us, and [to give] Gazans a good life.”

 

[Shusha]

And here is the official announcement by the Israeli government:

The Security Cabinet – by majority vote – adopted the five principles for concluding the war:

1. The disarming of Hamas.

2. The return of all the hostages – the living and the deceased.

3. The demilitarization of the Gaza Strip.

4. Israeli security control in the Gaza Strip.

5. The establishment of an alternative civil administration that is neither Hamas nor the Palestinian Authority.

Prime Minister’s Office Announcement – 8 August 2025

Israeli Prime Minister's proposal approved by Security Cabinet to defeat Hamas and take control of Gaza City, distributing humanitarian aid. Five principles for

israel.com

 

[AZrailwhale]

You are looking in the wrong place for the justification. Looking backward instead of forward. The point of the war is not to address what happened on October 7. The point of the war is to address all the promised (!) future attacks. One and done-ing this is what is going to save Israeli and Palestinian lives in the future.

And the continual past attacks ever since Israel turned Gaza over to Hamas. Hamas is a bad actor and had publically stated tha tit will never cease attacks on Israel unti israel is destroyed.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Not if Israel is wise.
Israel's intelligence is said to have failed re 'Oct 7'...or didn't fail but the intelligence was dismissed as "impossible", some allegations stated.
Palestinians obviously just don't seem to understand. Hamas certainly doesn't.
Israel is "the Jews' last stand" [my words, having watched movies about the Holocaust and WW2.]
'DEFIANCE" being one such movie.

Hamas/Palestinians don't seem to have received the "Never Again"/"Never Again is Now" message.
They'd only have to look around Gaza to see that Israel means business, "no more Mr Nice Guy".

Hamas doesn't care, every "fighter" and civilian killed by the Israelis goes directly to Paradise to live in plenty forever with the men having 72 virgins ay their beck and call for their use (I'm not sure the Koran ever mentions what women in paradise get). You will notice that the leaders of Hamas, the only ones with functioning brains, stay as far from combat or hardship as they can. They are in no hurry to enter Paradise.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Yes, we know the LIE of Zionism, that they made the desert bloom in a land without a people.

The reality, the people there were just fine until Europe started dumping their Jews there.

Bullcrap, the Jews were constantly persecuted both legally and illegally by the Muslims. The persecution only got worse after the British and French tookl over fromo the Ottoman after WW 1.

 

[Jroc]

275,000 Arabs were there in 1900 now there's over 6 million how do you explain that? Genocide?... dumbass most of the Arabs came there if you build it they will come

 

[JoeB131]

275,000 Arabs were there in 1900 now there's over 6 million how do you explain that? Genocide?... dumbass most of the Arabs came there if you build it they will come

Actually, your numbers are wrong. The population of Palestine in 1890 was 432,000 Muslims and 57,000 Christians (but only 43,000 Jews)

So the population increased by 1100%. Sounds impressive.

Now, the entire world population 1.6 Billion compared to 8.2 Billion today. So there's been a 400% increase in the Global population.

But probably other factors are in play here. More traditional third world people's have more children. The Ottomans probably weren't particularly good at taking Censuses and the Arabs were unlikely to cooperate with them.

 

[JoeB131]

Bullcrap, the Jews were constantly persecuted both legally and illegally by the Muslims. The persecution only got worse after the British and French tookl over fromo the Ottoman after WW 1.

Well, the French weren't in Palestine; they were in Syria.

The British were the ones who passed the Balfour Declaration inviting Europe's Jews to move to Palestine. This was after they lied to the Arabs and told them they would support independence from the Ottomans.

the main purpose of the Balfour Declaration was to encourage the Jewish Revolutionaries who just overthrew the Tsar to stay in WWI.

The British are truly masters of screwing thing up.

 

[Jroc]

Actually, your numbers are wrong. The population of Palestine in 1890 was 432,000 Muslims and 57,000 Christians (but only 43,000 Jews)

So the population increased by 1100%. Sounds impressive.

Now, the entire world population 1.6 Billion compared to 8.2 Billion today. So there's been a 400% increase in the Global population.

But probably other factors are in play here. More traditional third world people's have more children. The Ottomans probably weren't particularly good at taking Censuses and the Arabs were unlikely to cooperate with them.

We didn't need the Turks to take a census we were there letting them flock into work from Egypt from Syria from Lebanon , Jordan from all these areas and then all the sudden they started calling themselves Palestinians in the 60s