Half of U.S. households pay no income tax...So the obvious question is what happens

[Robert]

I do live in the real world where income and wealth disparities are increasing while at the same time labor productivity has been increasing, yet the uber rich have been capturing our labor productivity.

This is what Bastiat calls legalized plunder, yet some rw kooks think that the poor are becoming the new rich.

The world I live in is truly mad.

People earn only, and exactly, what they are worth to their employers. No more, no less.

This is the disillusionment that we are facing and why I won't negotiate with fucktards.

LOL Do you really think anyone cares who you'll "negotiate" with .......Really?

 

[Robert]

Republican policies lowered taxes to the point where 47% of households pay no taxes.

so they ARE tax cutters for the middle and lower class?

Yes. They had to cut taxes for everyone to get the tax cuts for the Rich through.

So then you're all in favor of reversing the tax cuts for those that don't pay federal taxes then?.

 

[NYcarbineer]

When we have more Takers then Givers who support our Society.

In case the left missed it we are rapidly reaching that threshold. I asked a question not long ago "When will the Poor become the new Rich" what do you suppose our Nations future look's like given where we are today.


Giver and Takers

Republican policy created that condition.

Republicans are responsible for the trillions that Obama has added to the deficit?

Yes, most of it, unless you believe that Obama couild have come in and magically reversed all of Bush's deeds.

 

[NYcarbineer]

so they ARE tax cutters for the middle and lower class?

Yes. They had to cut taxes for everyone to get the tax cuts for the Rich through.

So then you're all in favor of reversing the tax cuts for those that don't pay federal taxes then?.

No, that would be you. I would roll back some of them.

 

[Antiderivative]

LOL Do you really think anyone cares who you'll "negotiate" with .......Really?

Tell me why compromising with reich wing radicals is noble?

 

[kiwiman127]

When we have more Takers then Givers who support our Society.

In case the left missed it we are rapidly reaching that threshold. I asked a question not long ago "When will the Poor become the new Rich" what do you suppose our Nations future look's like given where we are today.


Giver and Takers

The poor and middle class pay on every dollar of their paychecks in the form of withholding taxes, not to mention sales tax etc.
Many of the wealthy pay a rate of 15% capital gains...less percentage than those above.

Then how is it that the top 1% of wage earners pay over 90% of all income taxes?

The top % DON'T pay 90% of the taxes! Yikes someone is OD-ing on the Kool-Aid.

 

[kiwiman127]

Low wages have driven more and more working Americans into the no tax category.
I bet most of the folks not paying taxes would like to qualify to fall into the category of tax payers. That would mean they have a livable wage.

 

[Mr Liberty]

Detroit, Newark and California are perfect examples of Liberal "**** the Rich" mentality run amok

Amen to that brother!

Here in Cali we were the worlds 7th largest economy. Right up until the liberal idiots and their mass taxation took hold and turned it into a ******* third world economy. Before that, business and industry couldn't move here fast enough for many reasons. A business, corporate friendly environment being the MAIN reason.

Anytime a freeloading liberal idiot chimes in with their ridiculous, uneducated BS, just throw California and the effects they have had on it squarely in their ignorant god damn faces. I have yet to see one of these loons dispute what their beloved fellow liberal morons have done. They can't dispute it.

Want just one very clear example of the liberal lunacy in this state, beyond their job killing, economy destroying TAXATION?

Try driving a semi older than ten years old into the port of L.A........You can't do it. It's that enviro loon BS. You are turned away. The sheer numbers of local independent, and small trucking companies that have been forced out of business by these whackjobs is just plain sad.

And then of course, the enviro loons have killed the farming industry in the central valley by turning off the water supply to protect a god damn fish. A god damn guppy. A god damn guppy that could be just as easily farm raised.

Lib's are a cancer on our great country. And they must be fought tooth and nail at every turn.

No mercy!

I was in college here in 1980 (Business Major) California had the fifth largest GNP and 60 square around LA was the ninth largest. I was never out of work. The Bay Area was booming.
I'd rather be an individual, having rights and liberty, than to be a part of a collective. Where rights are determined by the state. I thought these were self-evident truths. This is what I hate about all socialist. They are willing to violate an individuals liberty, for the good of the collective, making the collective less valuable to all.

 

[Foxfyre]

In 2007, the ratios of how much is paid in federal income taxes was as follows. If Presidemt Obama and company get their way, however, those at the top will carry an even heavier percentage of the burden forcing more and more of the wealthy to buy, invest, and save outside the USA where their money helps nobody.

•The top 1 percent: Americans who earned an adjusted gross income of $410,096 or more accounted for 22.8 percent of all wages. But they paid 40.4 percent of total reported income taxes, an increase from 39.9 percent in 2006, according to the IRS.


•The top 5 percent: Americans who earned $160,041 or more accounted for 37.4 percent of all wages in 2007. But they paid 60.6 percent of the country's total reported income taxes, up from 60.1 percent a year earlier.


•The top 10 percent: Americans who earned at least $113,018 paid 71.2 percent of the nation's income taxes, up from 70.8 percent a year earlier.


•The top 25 percent: Americans who earned at least $66,532 paid 86.6 percent of the nation's income taxes, up from 86.3 percent a year earlier.


•The top 50 percent: Americans who earned at least $32,879 paid 97.1 percent of the nation's income taxes, up from 97 percent a year earlier.


•The bottom 50 percent: Americans who earned less than $32,879 paid 2.9 percent of the nation's income taxes, down from 3 percent a year earlier.

 

[Sallow]

When we have more Takers then Givers who support our Society.

In case the left missed it we are rapidly reaching that threshold. I asked a question not long ago "When will the Poor become the new Rich" what do you suppose our Nations future look's like given where we are today.


Giver and Takers

The poor and middle class pay on every dollar of their paychecks in the form of withholding taxes, not to mention sales tax etc.
Many of the wealthy pay a rate of 15% capital gains...less percentage than those above.

Local city and State tax's are not federal tax's. You make the argument that the rich pay 15% on Capital Gains but then those same rich are the one that take the risk in creating more wealth.

How many poor or middle class do you see risking million's of capital on a venture? or spending millions on homes and toy's which btw is taxed and employs people. If we remove any incentive to invest that capital not much is going to get done and the number POOR will grow.

Also are you arguing that the "withholding tax's" which include ss and the like shouldn't be paid?

What risk?

And this discounts a great deal. Local and state taxes that show deficits either make up for it by asking more in federal money..or they raise taxes locally.

And it also discounts labor. Completely. Which is not unusual for conservatives. But without anyone doing anything..nothing gets done. Labor has been getting hit hard over the last 30 years. Wages have been stagnant..or going down. Mix in the massive layoffs of the last 10 years along with off-shoring and the rise of consultants..and the situation is pretty grim. But on the bright side..it's ripe for a re-emergence of the Union.

 

[Douger]

When we have more Takers then Givers who support our Society.

In case the left missed it we are rapidly reaching that threshold. I asked a question not long ago "When will the Poor become the new Rich" what do you suppose our Nations future look's like given where we are today.


Giver and Takers

Your nation has no "future". The credits are now running on that movie.

 

[P F Tinmore]

When we have more Takers then Givers who support our Society.

In case the left missed it we are rapidly reaching that threshold. I asked a question not long ago "When will the Poor become the new Rich" what do you suppose our Nations future look's like given where we are today.


Giver and Takers

The poor and middle class pay on every dollar of their paychecks in the form of withholding taxes, not to mention sales tax etc.
Many of the wealthy pay a rate of 15% capital gains...less percentage than those above.

Local city and State tax's are not federal tax's. You make the argument that the rich pay 15% on Capital Gains but then those same rich are the one that take the risk in creating more wealth.

How many poor or middle class do you see risking million's of capital on a venture? or spending millions on homes and toy's which btw is taxed and employs people. If we remove any incentive to invest that capital not much is going to get done and the number POOR will grow.

Also are you arguing that the "withholding tax's" which include ss and the like shouldn't be paid?

How many poor or middle class do you see risking million's of capital on a venture?

Where are they going to invest if the rest of the economy does not have the money to buy their products?

There is too much money collecting at the top which is pinching off the velocity of money in the overall economy. What would be a good way to get this money moving again?

 

[jeffrockit]

Of course the point being that instead of tearing down those who have more why not invest all this hate into bring bring those who have less up?

I am not tearing them down. I am tearing your fantasy world down which you believe that the poor are becoming the new rich.

I am sorry to break this to you, but wealth has become more concentrated, but you live in this fantasy world where the uber rich are the most victimized segment of society. They are not.

In fact, their effective tax is around 10% and they have done nothing, except capture our politicians and regulators for their own personal gains.

There isn't a society in history that's survived having a few support the many as the left is advocating for.

Wealth has not become more concentrated as it is and has been mobile. The following article I linked show how wealth has moved where some of the middle class have moved to the upper category and some who are in the poor have moved to the middle class.

"The numbers generally cited in support of this argument do not actually tell us much about what has happened to the incomes of wealthy households over time. That’s because the people who are in the top bracket today are not the people who were in the top bracket last year. There’s a good deal of socioeconomic mobility in the United States — more than you’d think. Our dear, dear friends at the IRS keep track of actual households (boy, do they ever!), and sometimes the Treasury publishes data about what has happened to them. For instance, among those who in 1996 were in the very highest income group isolated for study — the top 0.01 percent — 75 percent were in a lower income group by 2005. The median real income of super-rich households went down, not up. The rich got poorer. Among actual households, income grew proportionally more for those who started off in the low-income groups than those that began in high-income groups."
The Rich Aren

 

[editec]

When we have more Takers then Givers who support our Society.

So in your POV only those who pay FEDERAL INCOME taxes are "givers"?

How about state and local taxes?

They don't count?

How about the fact that people paid far more social security taxes to create a trust fund for that system which YOU the taxpaying citizen reaped the benefit of being able to BORROW from Social Security?

Also not a benefit to this society and to you, too?


Your idological blinders are making you miss half the picture, lad

 

[Robert]

The poor and middle class pay on every dollar of their paychecks in the form of withholding taxes, not to mention sales tax etc.
Many of the wealthy pay a rate of 15% capital gains...less percentage than those above.

Local city and State tax's are not federal tax's. You make the argument that the rich pay 15% on Capital Gains but then those same rich are the one that take the risk in creating more wealth.

How many poor or middle class do you see risking million's of capital on a venture? or spending millions on homes and toy's which btw is taxed and employs people. If we remove any incentive to invest that capital not much is going to get done and the number POOR will grow.

Also are you arguing that the "withholding tax's" which include ss and the like shouldn't be paid?

What risk?

And this discounts a great deal. Local and state taxes that show deficits either make up for it by asking more in federal money..or they raise taxes locally.

And it also discounts labor. Completely. Which is not unusual for conservatives. But without anyone doing anything..nothing gets done. Labor has been getting hit hard over the last 30 years. Wages have been stagnant..or going down. Mix in the massive layoffs of the last 10 years along with off-shoring and the rise of consultants..and the situation is pretty grim. But on the bright side..it's ripe for a re-emergence of the Union.

I won't argue that Labor hasn't been hit hard Hell the average wage earner hasn't been unable to keep up with COL that's not a secret.

But let me ask you this it seems to me that the people who are promoting the class warfare agenda have very little desire to correct the problem we see the only thing their seeming interest in is the big get even with the "Rich" rather then actually fixing the problem.

So let's say you really sock to the "rich" how is this going to help those who are unemployed, homeless and destitute? Its not going to create Job's its not going to create wealth its not going to do anything other then in the short term add more money to an already bloated Federal Government and once that money runs out whats the plan to rein in spending?

BTW Unions are a thing of the past since Unions stopped helping those they take money from and started being a mouth piece for one political party they are now targets that will be removed.

 

[NYcarbineer]

In 2007, the ratios of how much is paid in federal income taxes was as follows. If Presidemt Obama and company get their way, however, those at the top will carry an even heavier percentage of the burden forcing more and more of the wealthy to buy, invest, and save outside the USA where their money helps nobody.

Your premise is not supported by the facts of history. The top marginal rate they're talking about raising would only put it back where it was under Clinton.

The stock market rose 200% over the Clinton presidency. That is INVESTMENT in the US. The 39% rate did NOT kill investment in the US.

To now baselessly claim that it would is nonsensical.

 

[Foxfyre]

In 2007, the ratios of how much is paid in federal income taxes was as follows. If Presidemt Obama and company get their way, however, those at the top will carry an even heavier percentage of the burden forcing more and more of the wealthy to buy, invest, and save outside the USA where their money helps nobody.

Your premise is not supported by the facts of history. The top marginal rate they're talking about raising would only put it back where it was under Clinton.

The stock market rose 200% over the Clinton presidency. That is INVESTMENT in the US. The 39% rate did NOT kill investment in the US.

To now baselessly claim that it would is nonsensical.

I'm not talking about the stock market that also had its worst crash since the great depression under Clinton and the Nasdaq hasn't recovered from the dot.com bubble burst yet.

It is a certainty that raising taxes did NOT boost the economy under Clinton. Certain regulatory and welfare reform FORCED by the GOP reformers under Clinton DID boost the economy that was in an upswing anyway.

And it IS a certainty that lowering capital gains and other commerce depressing taxes does free up capital and investment that does translate to economic growth and new jobs.

Since the poor are pretty much dependent on the rich for jobs, investment, economic growth, you simply cannot punish the rich or confiscate more of their wealth without hurting the poor.

George H.W. Bush learned that the hard way. Breaking his no new taxes pledge he agreed to increasing taxes on the very rich. The result? Decimation and near destruction of the domestic private airplane and boat construction industry and a huge chunk of precious metals and jewelry business was driven off shore. Almost a 100,000 jobs lost, the economy staggered, and it cost him the 1992 election.

We should learn from history.

 

[NYcarbineer]

In 2007, the ratios of how much is paid in federal income taxes was as follows. If Presidemt Obama and company get their way, however, those at the top will carry an even heavier percentage of the burden forcing more and more of the wealthy to buy, invest, and save outside the USA where their money helps nobody.

Your premise is not supported by the facts of history. The top marginal rate they're talking about raising would only put it back where it was under Clinton.

The stock market rose 200% over the Clinton presidency. That is INVESTMENT in the US. The 39% rate did NOT kill investment in the US.

To now baselessly claim that it would is nonsensical.

I'm not talking about the stock market that also had its worst crash since the great depression under Clinton and the Nasdaq hasn't recovered from the dot.com bubble burst yet.

It is a certainty that raising taxes did NOT boost the economy under Clinton. Certain regulatory and welfare reform FORCED by the GOP reformers under Clinton DID boost the economy that was in an upswing anyway.

And it IS a certainty that lowering capital gains and other commerce depressing taxes does free up capital and investment that does translate to economic growth and new jobs.

Since the poor are pretty much dependent on the rich for jobs, investment, economic growth, you simply cannot punish the rich or confiscate more of their wealth without hurting the poor.

George H.W. Bush learned that the hard way. Breaking his no new taxes pledge he agreed to increasing taxes on the very rich. The result? Decimation and near destruction of the domestic private airplane and boat construction industry and a huge chunk of precious metals and jewelry business was driven off shore. Almost a 100,000 jobs lost, the economy staggered, and it cost him the 1992 election.

We should learn from history.

You're talking about INVESTMENT but want to exclude the STOCK MARKET from that discussion.

You're an idiot.

 

[M14 Shooter]

When we have more Takers then Givers who support our Society.

In case the left missed it we are rapidly reaching that threshold. I asked a question not long ago "When will the Poor become the new Rich" what do you suppose our Nations future look's like given where we are today.


Giver and Takers

Republican policy created that condition.

Another unsupportable, bigoted, partisan claim.