H.R. 5029 - Economic Freedom Act of 2010

[Cuyo]

mmm-hmm. Do you guys think this bill in and of itself would net a positive or negative on the ol' balance sheet?

My friends, this is political positioning- Some dude in Ohio trying to make a name for himself. In reality, it would be an unmitigated disaster. It will never happen, and I doubt more than a handful of lawmakers could possibly take this seriously. It just tugs on the heartstrings of the moment.

 

[PatekPhilippe]

mmm-hmm. Do you guys think this bill in and of itself would net a positive or negative on the ol' balance sheet?

My friends, this is political positioning- Some dude in Ohio trying to make a name for himself. In reality, it would be an unmitigated disaster. It will never happen, and I doubt more than a handful of lawmakers could possibly take this seriously. It just tugs on the heartstrings of the moment.

You're probably right on this one...at this point any tax cuts would be an "unmitigated disaster". With this healthcare law that was supposed to be deficit neutral turning out to be deficit positive by 2 trillion dollars over the next 10 years we can no longer afford the "pot to pee in or a window to throw it out of."

 

[Flopper]

For those who say the Republicans are the party of 'no' and have no ideas, Jim Jordan (R-Ohio) introduced H.R. 5020 - Economic Freedom Act of 2010 - recently. It is still in committee and the Democratic majority probably will not allow it out of committee this year.

The bill has a number of supporters however and, should the Republicans achieve a majority in November, they will bring it to a vote on the House floor early in 2011.

Basically the bill proposes the following:

1) Eliminate the capital gains tax.
2) Reduce the corporate tax rate to 12.5%.
3) Permanently eliminate the death tax.
4) Provide immediate business expensing.
5) Reduce the payroll tax by half for 2010.
6) Repeal the "stimulus" spending (except for unemployment benefits and the tax cuts).
7) Terminate the TARP program.

Would you vote for this? Why or why not?

This bill as you have stated it would be the ultimate in fiscal irresponsibility. There is no way that the cost savings would support the decrease in taxes and I'm sure the sponsors know that. Over 500 billion of the Tarp money has been spent and over half the stimulus money Just how would you propose the feds get this money back?
If this bill contained realist spending cuts, I might be inclined to support it.



Bailout Scorecard | Eye on the Bailout | ProPublica
Stimulus:How Fast We're Spending Nearly $800 Billion | ProPublica

 

[Thinman]

I think we all agree that spending needs to be cut; let's just all stand together and tell congress how much we want them to cut and let them decide.

I know...that sounds pretty naive.

 

[uscitizen]

What % of the population pays any inheritance tax anyway?

 

[Patriot214]

This will be an extremely tough task for the republicans to accomplish. The elements of the bill are exactly what the country needs to turn back from the far left path we have been taken down. The difficulty will be swimming against the current of the extreme liberal agenda that has been flowing out of Washington since Obama has been in office.

Even if the Republicans regain control of congress in November and vote on H.R. 5029 in 2011, when the bill reaches President Obama's desk he will veto it. This means the Republican party would have to gain a super majority in the mid term election. It will not be easy. But, if conservatives can prepare for a marathon uphill battle, we could have a chance at restoring some of the important principles the country was founded on in the first place.

 

[Avatar4321]

This will be an extremely tough task for the republicans to accomplish. The elements of the bill are exactly what the country needs to turn back from the far left path we have been taken down. The difficulty will be swimming against the current of the extreme liberal agenda that has been flowing out of Washington since Obama has been in office.

Even if the Republicans regain control of congress in November and vote on H.R. 5029 in 2011, when the bill reaches President Obama's desk he will veto it. This means the Republican party would have to gain a super majority in the mid term election. It will not be easy. But, if conservatives can prepare for a marathon uphill battle, we could have a chance at restoring some of the important principles the country was founded on in the first place.

There is no way Republicans will have a supermajority in both Chambers of Congress by the midterm election short of an Act of God. Which does happen from time to time.

However, I think the more practical approach is to realize we are in alot of trouble until 2012 at the earliest.

 

[Thinman]

The fact that congress did not even vote to repeal their automatic salary increase shows how commited they are to cutting spending. Yes, I know it's a very small amount of money but it would have gone a long way with the people.

 

[Flopper]

This will be an extremely tough task for the republicans to accomplish. The elements of the bill are exactly what the country needs to turn back from the far left path we have been taken down. The difficulty will be swimming against the current of the extreme liberal agenda that has been flowing out of Washington since Obama has been in office.

Even if the Republicans regain control of congress in November and vote on H.R. 5029 in 2011, when the bill reaches President Obama's desk he will veto it. This means the Republican party would have to gain a super majority in the mid term election. It will not be easy. But, if conservatives can prepare for a marathon uphill battle, we could have a chance at restoring some of the important principles the country was founded on in the first place.

There is no way Republicans will have a supermajority in both Chambers of Congress by the midterm election short of an Act of God. Which does happen from time to time.

However, I think the more practical approach is to realize we are in alot of trouble until 2012 at the earliest.

I agreed, a 2/3 majority in both houses would be near impossible.

To put things in prospective in regard to the deficit, the ratio of GDP to national debt reached it's peak during WWII, decreased with every administration until the Reagan Bush years when it made a sharp rise, fell during the Clinton years, and rose sharply during the G. Bush years and has continued to rise during the first 16 months of the Obama administration. Looking at past history of Republican administrations, their ability to control the deficit is not assuring.

Abroad debt has skyrocketed in Europe and parts of Asia as well as many underdeveloped countries over the last 16 months. We are seeing the results in the news of this with currency drops, down-rated bond ratings, and a crisis that threatens to spread globally. Even with mounting deficits, we are still the bastion of financial security and will remain so. The problems that the rising debt will cause us is based on assumptions of GDP growth, trends of government speeding, tax assumptions, impact on higher taxes on the economy, inflation, plus a host of other factors that can not be projected.

I agree the deficit is a serious problem, but we have faced more serious problems and we came out it just as we will come out this. As a country we have the ability to fix this either through higher taxes and spending cuts, an option that many countries don't have.

http://zfacts.com/p/318.html

 

[oreo]

Where is the Economic Freedom? I see nothing that reduces the deficit, nothing to balance the budget, nothing on responsible spending.

Its just another irresponsible Republican tax cut

When you put people to WORK--they actually start paying taxes--which reduces the deficit. Unemployed Americans really do not pay income taxes---

This bill is a job creator. But this congress and administration would never go for it. Why? Because they would LOSE control of YOUR money.

"The problem with socialism is that government eventually runs out of other peoples money to spend"--Margaret Thatcher.

 

[Foxfyre]

On my way to find my pillow folks, but a good start on a good debate. And thank you thank you for keeping it civil. You're all the best!

I just wanted to chime in as assurance I haven't abandoned my own thread.

I would have added to this bill at least a postponement of the healthcare legislation just passed, but I suppose that would have been a death blow for ever getting this out of committee. Not that it has much chance anyway.

But I shall be back tomorrow to join in the fray.

Good night and sweet dreams to all.

 

[rightwinger]

Where is the Economic Freedom? I see nothing that reduces the deficit, nothing to balance the budget, nothing on responsible spending.

Its just another irresponsible Republican tax cut

When you put people to WORK--they actually start paying taxes--which reduces the deficit. Unemployed Americans really do not pay income taxes---

This bill is a job creator. But this congress and administration would never go for it. Why? Because they would LOSE control of YOUR money.

"The problem with socialism is that government eventually runs out of other peoples money to spend"--Margaret Thatcher.

"Fool me once, shame on you.....fool me twice, shame on me"

How many times do you think we will fall for this "Cut taxes on the rich to create jobs" bullshit?

We bought the Republican line, we gave them the White House and Congress to show us how their economic theory would work.

The rich kept the money and got richer and sent the jobs overseas

 

[The Rabbi]

You bought all that "Tinkle down" crap didn't you?

If you want true economic freedom then balance the freaking budget. No tax cuts without equivalent cuts in spending.

I agree with you. I am in favor of spending cuts. Start with TARP and stimulus, then stop all earmarks when we have a deficit, end useless government agencies and layoff the people staffing them. It is like I said, Congress can balance the budget.

given that no leader in recorded history cut taxes during time of war until baby bush, i have a better suggestion. end the 200 billion dollar drain on our economy and soldiers' lives that is iraq.

government agencies aren't useless and people who hate government should never run government.

and psssssst... we got paid back most of the TARP money already.

seems you guys don't have anything except the same old same old failed economic policies that created the problems to begin with.

Didn't Obama promise to end the failed policies of the Bush era??

 

[The Rabbi]

For those who say the Republicans are the party of 'no' and have no ideas, Jim Jordan (R-Ohio) introduced H.R. 5020 - Economic Freedom Act of 2010 - recently. It is still in committee and the Democratic majority probably will not allow it out of committee this year.

The bill has a number of supporters however and, should the Republicans achieve a majority in November, they will bring it to a vote on the House floor early in 2011.

Basically the bill proposes the following:

1) Eliminate the capital gains tax.
2) Reduce the corporate tax rate to 12.5%.
3) Permanently eliminate the death tax.
4) Provide immediate business expensing.
5) Reduce the payroll tax by half for 2010.
6) Repeal the "stimulus" spending (except for unemployment benefits and the tax cuts).
7) Terminate the TARP program.

Would you vote for this? Why or why not?

I would repeal the unemployment extensions as well. They do nothing but give people the luxury of picking and choosing which jobs they want, extending unemployment instead of lowering it.
Tax cuts have to make a difference at the margin, as an encouragement to earn that next dollar of income. Otherwise they are simply negative.
Reagan was correct: You do not balance the budget and impose fiscal discipline by feeding the beast. You starve the beast of revenue and force cuts that way.

 

[The Rabbi]

Where is the Economic Freedom? I see nothing that reduces the deficit, nothing to balance the budget, nothing on responsible spending.

Its just another irresponsible Republican tax cut

When you put people to WORK--they actually start paying taxes--which reduces the deficit. Unemployed Americans really do not pay income taxes---

This bill is a job creator. But this congress and administration would never go for it. Why? Because they would LOSE control of YOUR money.

"The problem with socialism is that government eventually runs out of other peoples money to spend"--Margaret Thatcher.

"Fool me once, shame on you.....fool me twice, shame on me"

How many times do you think we will fall for this "Cut taxes on the rich to create jobs" bullshit?

We bought the Republican line, we gave them the White House and Congress to show us how their economic theory would work.

The rich kept the money and got richer and sent the jobs overseas

Every tax cut has resulted in larger revenue to the government, not smaller. If they choose to over-spend that revenue, which is what happened, that isnt the fault of tax cuts.
The economy began tanking when Democrats took control of Congress. There's the problem right there.

 

[rightwinger]

When you put people to WORK--they actually start paying taxes--which reduces the deficit. Unemployed Americans really do not pay income taxes---

This bill is a job creator. But this congress and administration would never go for it. Why? Because they would LOSE control of YOUR money.

"The problem with socialism is that government eventually runs out of other peoples money to spend"--Margaret Thatcher.

"Fool me once, shame on you.....fool me twice, shame on me"

How many times do you think we will fall for this "Cut taxes on the rich to create jobs" bullshit?

We bought the Republican line, we gave them the White House and Congress to show us how their economic theory would work.

The rich kept the money and got richer and sent the jobs overseas

Every tax cut has resulted in larger revenue to the government, not smaller. If they choose to over-spend that revenue, which is what happened, that isnt the fault of tax cuts.
The economy began tanking when Democrats took control of Congress. There's the problem right there.

The economy began tanking when Democrats took control of Congress. There's the problem right there

Good point....But the economy recovered when the Democrats took control of the Congress AND the White House

Theres the solution right there

 

[Cuyo]

This will be an extremely tough task for the republicans to accomplish. The elements of the bill are exactly what the country needs to turn back from the far left path we have been taken down. The difficulty will be swimming against the current of the extreme liberal agenda that has been flowing out of Washington since Obama has been in office.

Even if the Republicans regain control of congress in November and vote on H.R. 5029 in 2011, when the bill reaches President Obama's desk he will veto it. This means the Republican party would have to gain a super majority in the mid term election. It will not be easy. But, if conservatives can prepare for a marathon uphill battle, we could have a chance at restoring some of the important principles the country was founded on in the first place.

?? Far left? Are you insane? The rest of the world views us, including our Democrats, as far-right wackos!

OK, Obama intends to let the Shrub tax cuts expire, effectively raising the top bracket from 35% to 39.6% - A 4.6% increase - And the republicans scream socialism.

HOWEVER dude, from 1932 to 1980, that same bracket was never below 63% and was as high as 94%. If we're "Far left" now, shit, what were we back in those days?
And that was the "Golden Era." That's when we were at the top of our game, as far as industry and standard of living.

FYI the only thing in the budget that can take a significant budget cut, is the military. Now you don't think the Republicans are gonna give you that, do you?

 

[Cuyo]

Where is the Economic Freedom? I see nothing that reduces the deficit, nothing to balance the budget, nothing on responsible spending.

Its just another irresponsible Republican tax cut

When you put people to WORK--they actually start paying taxes--which reduces the deficit. Unemployed Americans really do not pay income taxes---

This bill is a job creator. But this congress and administration would never go for it. Why? Because they would LOSE control of YOUR money.

"The problem with socialism is that government eventually runs out of other peoples money to spend"--Margaret Thatcher.

"Fool me once, shame on you.....fool me twice, shame on me"

How many times do you think we will fall for this "Cut taxes on the rich to create jobs" bullshit?

We bought the Republican line, we gave them the White House and Congress to show us how their economic theory would work.

The rich kept the money and got richer and sent the jobs overseas

Do people not realize that for a business owner, paying employees is a pre-tax expense? If anything, lower taxes are an incentive to NOT hire. After all, if you get to keep a bigger chunk of what's left, why wouldn't you do everything you could not to hire anyone?

Whereas if you're going to give back a higher percentage of what's left, then why not hire more, which will lower your tax liability at the end of the year, to make your own life a little easier?

That "Cutting taxes creates jobs" theory is about as broken as they come. It really is.

 

[The Rabbi]

"Fool me once, shame on you.....fool me twice, shame on me"

How many times do you think we will fall for this "Cut taxes on the rich to create jobs" bullshit?

We bought the Republican line, we gave them the White House and Congress to show us how their economic theory would work.

The rich kept the money and got richer and sent the jobs overseas

Every tax cut has resulted in larger revenue to the government, not smaller. If they choose to over-spend that revenue, which is what happened, that isnt the fault of tax cuts.
The economy began tanking when Democrats took control of Congress. There's the problem right there.

The economy began tanking when Democrats took control of Congress. There's the problem right there

Good point....But the economy recovered when the Democrats took control of the Congress AND the White House

Theres the solution right there

Unemployment rate when Obama entered the White House: 7.8%
Rate today: 9.7%

Seems to be some misunderstanding here.

 

[uscitizen]

Every tax cut has resulted in larger revenue to the government, not smaller. If they choose to over-spend that revenue, which is what happened, that isnt the fault of tax cuts.
The economy began tanking when Democrats took control of Congress. There's the problem right there.

The economy began tanking when Democrats took control of Congress. There's the problem right there

Good point....But the economy recovered when the Democrats took control of the Congress AND the White House

Theres the solution right there

Unemployment rate when Obama entered the White House: 7.8%
Rate today: 9.7%

Seems to be some misunderstanding here.

Ohh absolutely, but you may catch on eventually.