CDZ Guy Fawkes terrorist or hero???

[Zebra]

good video!

 

[Zebra]

Interesting dichotomy in Brittan over the late Mr. Fawkes.

In York he's a hero. Their big October illumination a couple of years ago was based on a tribute to him.

But it didn't happen.

Because London thinks of him a terrorist and withdrew traditional illumination funding unless they'd drop the subject. So they did. At the last minute. The lighting display that year was a disaster and thousands who formerly had visited York, stayed in hotels, ate in restaurants and spent lots of cash stayed home for several subsequent years and the economy went down the tubes.

So who was the terrorist in recent times?

In history hero v. terrorist is decided by outcome. You win; hero. You lose terrorist. Only for that is George Washington a national hero. To some.

Mr fawkes WAS a hero!

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

Well, we know he was not Kit Harrington.

We do know he was a committed radical Roman Catholic.

 

[PeterPilot]

He was a hero.

 

[whitehall]

Way way wrong forum.

 

[Sparker]

As a British guy in college explained it to me in college almost 30 years ago, Guy Fawkes Night was a holiday when British kids pulled a wagon with a Guy Fawkes doll to neighbors' homes, saying "Penny for the old guy?" to get money for fireworks to blow up the doll. Adequately explosive fireworks became too restricted for kids to buy, so parents dropped the holiday and adopted the American Halloween with trick-or-treating.

Americans could return the favor by adopting Guy Fawkes Night. Terrorist or hero, doesn't matter, get some fireworks.

 

[Redheaded Stranger]

If you are going to blow up people, then make sure you get it right. An innocent walking by is not acceptable. What if your dog walks by when the ka-boom happens?

Wasn't this the guy who jumped off the gallows to cheat the hangman? Oh crap, now something else I have to loo up.

 

[Zebra]

except that Guido Fawkes was a real person, not a fictional character from a book

True

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

He was a terrorist to the Crown and a hero to Catholics.

Kit Harrington played a mediocre role in a movie about him.

 

[Pellinore]

He was a terrorist.

If his plan had gone off as designed, this wouldn't even be a debate. He would be seen as the World Trade Center bombers, at best.

The only reason anyone champions him at all is because he screwed up, the British goon squad tortured the living shit out of him, and Alan Moore made his face a meme for rebellious college students who skipped that class.

He tried to blow up the seat of government. He was a terrorist.

 

[Pellinore]

Also, I have to post this.

 

[Captain Caveman]

He was a terrorist.

In his day, in those times, he would have been a hero.

In these times, he would be a terrorist.

When folk from the past are measured and compared to the laws of today, they all fail. When everyone from the present is measured and compared in the future to future laws, we shall all fail.

 

[Pellinore]

In his day, in those times, he would have been a hero.

In these times, he would be a terrorist.

When folk from the past are measured and compared to the laws of today, they all fail. When everyone from the present is measured and compared in the future to future laws, we shall all fail.

Yes, that's a standard rule of studying history. My professors used to focus on it, a lot, and I was just thinking about it with regards to another thread here, I think yesterday.

It is difficult to apply here, though, for the simple reason that there were plenty of people in 1605 who considered him a terrorist then, too.

 

[Captain Caveman]

Yes, that's a standard rule of studying history. My professors used to focus on it, a lot, and I was just thinking about it with regards to another thread here, I think yesterday.

It is difficult to apply here, though, for the simple reason that there were plenty of people in 1605 who considered him a terrorist then, too.

The word terrorism was first coined in the 1790's -

Terrorism | Definition, History, & Facts | Britannica

Terrorism, the calculated use of violence to create a general climate of fear in a population and thereby to bring about a particular political objective. Definitions of terrorism are complex and controversial; because of the inherent ferocity of terrorism, the term in its popular usage has...

www.britannica.com

 

[Pellinore]

The word terrorism was first coined in the 1790's -

Terrorism | Definition, History, & Facts | Britannica

Terrorism, the calculated use of violence to create a general climate of fear in a population and thereby to bring about a particular political objective. Definitions of terrorism are complex and controversial; because of the inherent ferocity of terrorism, the term in its popular usage has...

www.britannica.com

I'm aware. The concept that he was a violent extremist that targeted a civilian population, though, was present even if the term hadn't been coined yet. That happens sometimes.

 

[Captain Caveman]

I'm aware. The concept that he was a violent extremist that targeted a civilian population, though, was present even if the term hadn't been coined yet. That happens sometimes.

Guy Fawkes is not a person that I've read up on. In the 70's as kids we made a dummy out of an old jumper, socks, and straw. We plonked him in an old pram and went around the houses asking for a penny for the guy, to buy fireworks. Then he was placed on top of the bonfire. All we knew was his gun powder plot was discovered.

And the last bit of knowledge was the phrase, "Guy Fawkes was the only one in parliament that had good intentions".

Can I ask how did he target a civilian population because above is my full knowledge of the dude? I wasn't aware he was threatening and causing violence against the public.

 

[Captain Caveman]

Wow, not much history to Guy Fawkes -

Guy Fawkes | Biography, Gunpowder Plot, & Death | Britannica

Guy Fawkes, participant in the Gunpowder Plot to blow up Parliament and James I in 1605; its failure is marked in the U.K. on Guy Fawkes Day.

www.britannica.com