CDZ Guns used to be allowed in schools, and no mass shootings, what happened?

[2aguy]

I think it is the increase in single teenage mothers....and social media...as well as left wing, anti American teaching in our schools....

Flashback 30 Years: When Guns Were in Schools ... and Nothing Happened

he millennial generation might be surprised to learn that theirs is the first withoutguns in school. Just 30 years ago, high school kids rode the bus with rifles and shot their guns at high school rifle ranges.

After another school shooting, it's time to ask: what changed?

Cross guns off the list of things that changed in thirty years. In 1985, semi-automatic rifles existed, and a semi-automatic rifle was used in Florida. Guns didn’t suddenly decide to visit mayhem on schools. Guns can’t decide.

-----

We can also cross the Second Amendment off the list. It existed for over 200 years before this wickedness unfolded. Nothing changed in the Constitution.

That leaves us with some uncomfortable possibilities remaining. What has changed from thirty years ago when kids could take firearms into school responsibly and today might involve some difficult truths.

Let’s inventory the possibilities.

What changed? The mainstreaming of nihilism. Cultural decay. Chemicals. The deliberate destruction of moral backstops in the culture. A lost commonality of shared societal pressures to enforce right and wrong. And above all, simple, pure, evil.

Before you retort that we can’t account for the mentally ill, they existed forever.

Paranoid schizophrenics existed in 1888 and 2018. Mentally ill students weren’t showing up in schools with guns even three decades ago.

So it must be something else.

 

[westwall]

Part of it can be laid at the feet of the TV show & movie producers, some at the game designers, and some at the news people who glorify the shooters.

 

[2aguy]

Part of it can be laid at the feet of the TV show & movie producers, some at the game designers, and some at the news people who glorify the shooters.

I think the deciding factor though, is a lack of a mature Father in the home......someone who could teach young males how to deal with life.....without shooting people...

 

[JGalt]

Part of it can be laid at the feet of the TV show & movie producers, some at the game designers, and some at the news people who glorify the shooters.

I think the deciding factor though, is a lack of a mature Father in the home......someone who could teach young males how to deal with life.....without shooting people...

Absolutely right. We have a society in which there are no longer any consequences and everyone wins a trophy.

Back in my day, my parents would have beaten the crap out of me if I'd tried to pull some of the crap kids get away with these days. How else are you going to learn right from wrong if there aren't any consequences for doing stupid shit?

 

[Pogo]

Guns used to be allowed in schools



Way back in Junior High around the Kennedy/Johnson years we happened to take a class trip to a local museum. There on display was an old Flintlock (or something). The curator offered it to any of us boys who wanted to handle it and try it out. We all just looked at each other like -- but then one kind of weird kid stepped forward to accept, and he was obviously into it.

Fast forward a few years to high school, still the '60s, and one morning there was a tremendous disturbance in this one spot with a crowd of students and teachers milling around to see what everybody else was there for. One of the teachers stood up and shrieked at the top of his voice "GO TO YOUR HOMEROOMS!! GET OUT!!". Turns out this same kid, who was so interested in the gun at the museum, had come to school armed to the teeth. He was stopped and suspended (or expelled, I forget which) before anything happened. We had no idea of the implications and just thought of it mostly as bizarre rather than a danger --- why would you bring guns to a school in the first place? It was so bizarre we didn't even report it to our parents, not knowing the implications.

But that was over fifty years ago. So don't give us this crapola that "guns used to be allowed in schools".

 

[Pogo]

Part of it can be laid at the feet of the TV show & movie producers, some at the game designers, and some at the news people who glorify the shooters.

A lot of it, if not most of it. That's why I keep pointing the finger at gun culture. Any one of us could flip on the TV right now (or any time) and within seconds find some depiction of somebody being shot, killed or threatened with a gun. That that is the case points to a societal value sickness.

 

[westwall]

Part of it can be laid at the feet of the TV show & movie producers, some at the game designers, and some at the news people who glorify the shooters.

A lot of it, if not most of it. That's why I keep pointing the finger at gun culture. Any one of us could flip on the TV right now (or any time) and within seconds find some depiction of somebody being shot, killed or threatened with a gun. That that is the case points to a societal value sickness.

What a farce. Before Miami Vice the gang bangers in LA were using sawed off shotguns like your good buddy biden. After Miami Vice they began arming themselves with all sorts of weapons because they were "cool". Miami Vice said so. So if you wanted to be a good gangster, you had to have the latest and greatest. Add to that the desensitization that violent video games like grand theft auto generate, and the very producers who decry the "violent gun culture" are actually the ones to blame for that "violent gun culture". Before the nightly spate of violence portrayed on TV there was very little actual gun crime.

As usual, you are wrong.

 

[westwall]

Guns used to be allowed in schools



Way back in Junior High around the Kennedy/Johnson years we happened to take a class trip to a local museum. There on display was an old Flintlock (or something). The curator offered it to any of us boys who wanted to handle it and try it out. We all just looked at each other like -- but then one kind of weird kid stepped forward to accept, and he was obviously into it.

Fast forward a few years to high school, still the '60s, and one morning there was a tremendous disturbance in this one spot with a crowd of students and teachers milling around to see what everybody else was there for. One of the teachers stood up and shrieked at the top of his voice "GO TO YOUR HOMEROOMS!! GET OUT!!". Turns out this same kid, who was so interested in the gun at the museum, had come to school armed to the teeth. He was stopped and suspended (or expelled, I forget which) before anything happened. We had no idea of the implications and just thought of it mostly as bizarre rather than a danger --- why would you bring guns to a school in the first place? It was so bizarre we didn't even report it to our parents, not knowing the implications.

But that was over fifty years ago. So don't give us this crapola that "guns used to be allowed in schools".

You would be wrong. I have spent many days in Grad school with colleagues who went to places like OSU and the University of Michigan and guns were allowed up until the 1960's or '70's. One friend who hailed from South Dakota told us about how they used to have a rack at the grade school he attended so they could store their .22's till they went home, and they would hunt their way home, so no, you are wrong. Guns did used to be allowed in schools.

 

[westwall]

Part of it can be laid at the feet of the TV show & movie producers, some at the game designers, and some at the news people who glorify the shooters.

I think the deciding factor though, is a lack of a mature Father in the home......someone who could teach young males how to deal with life.....without shooting people...

Sometimes, but not always. This most recent shooter is a sociopath. Nothing would have changed his trajectory. His mom might have been able to slow that trajectory down, but ultimately he would have given in to his urges.

 

[MarathonMike]

I am a pragmatist. I don't focus on the reasons why we have so many school shootings. We just do and that is not acceptable. To me, the priority needs to be 'make the schools safer'. But how do you do that? You could wave a magic wand and make every AR-15 disappear tomorrow and you have not made the schools safer. Cruz would have just chosen another weapon. Or a bomb.

With limited school budgets, I'm not saying you have to have armed security guards at every school. But you could have someone on staff during school hours who is a certified marksman with a concealed gun. I don't care who it is, it can be the janitor. Make it voluntary, and pay whoever it is a premium to their salary for the added responsibility. That is the only way you can meet the threat within 5 minutes to at least reduce the carnage. By the time the cops show up, it is usually too late.

That isn't the only thing we do, but it should be the first thing we do IMO. The common denominator in all of these mass shootings is these cowards want a soft target. They never walk into a gun show, or a biker bar, do they?

 

[Vastator]

In the 90's When I was in high school my shop teacher helped me repair the stock on my Wards Western Field 12 gauge shotgun. There was no fear of guns. And this was in New York no less; albeit the southern tier of western New York. Deep country. And most of the boys my age brought their guns to school as well. We could get permission slips from our parents to show up half a day late during deer season so we could hunt at Sun up. Man, how the times have changed...

 

[Votto]

What happened? The hard left declared war on religion and morality

Education Expert: Removing Bible, Prayer from Public Schools Has Caused Decline

 

[JGalt]

Part of it can be laid at the feet of the TV show & movie producers, some at the game designers, and some at the news people who glorify the shooters.

A lot of it, if not most of it. That's why I keep pointing the finger at gun culture. Any one of us could flip on the TV right now (or any time) and within seconds find some depiction of somebody being shot, killed or threatened with a gun. That that is the case points to a societal value sickness.

Not to forget that 38 people were killed at a school in Michigan about 90 years ago and none of the deaths were from a firearm...

Bath School disaster - Wikipedia

 

[2aguy]

Guns used to be allowed in schools



Way back in Junior High around the Kennedy/Johnson years we happened to take a class trip to a local museum. There on display was an old Flintlock (or something). The curator offered it to any of us boys who wanted to handle it and try it out. We all just looked at each other like -- but then one kind of weird kid stepped forward to accept, and he was obviously into it.

Fast forward a few years to high school, still the '60s, and one morning there was a tremendous disturbance in this one spot with a crowd of students and teachers milling around to see what everybody else was there for. One of the teachers stood up and shrieked at the top of his voice "GO TO YOUR HOMEROOMS!! GET OUT!!". Turns out this same kid, who was so interested in the gun at the museum, had come to school armed to the teeth. He was stopped and suspended (or expelled, I forget which) before anything happened. We had no idea of the implications and just thought of it mostly as bizarre rather than a danger --- why would you bring guns to a school in the first place? It was so bizarre we didn't even report it to our parents, not knowing the implications.

But that was over fifty years ago. So don't give us this crapola that "guns used to be allowed in schools".

It's not crap...it is a fact.....

 

[Pogo]

Guns used to be allowed in schools



Way back in Junior High around the Kennedy/Johnson years we happened to take a class trip to a local museum. There on display was an old Flintlock (or something). The curator offered it to any of us boys who wanted to handle it and try it out. We all just looked at each other like -- but then one kind of weird kid stepped forward to accept, and he was obviously into it.

Fast forward a few years to high school, still the '60s, and one morning there was a tremendous disturbance in this one spot with a crowd of students and teachers milling around to see what everybody else was there for. One of the teachers stood up and shrieked at the top of his voice "GO TO YOUR HOMEROOMS!! GET OUT!!". Turns out this same kid, who was so interested in the gun at the museum, had come to school armed to the teeth. He was stopped and suspended (or expelled, I forget which) before anything happened. We had no idea of the implications and just thought of it mostly as bizarre rather than a danger --- why would you bring guns to a school in the first place? It was so bizarre we didn't even report it to our parents, not knowing the implications.

But that was over fifty years ago. So don't give us this crapola that "guns used to be allowed in schools".

You would be wrong. I have spent many days in Grad school with colleagues who went to places like OSU and the University of Michigan and guns were allowed up until the 1960's or '70's. One friend who hailed from South Dakota told us about how they used to have a rack at the grade school he attended so they could store their .22's till they went home, and they would hunt their way home, so no, you are wrong. Guns did used to be allowed in schools.

Not in the real world where I was, nope. And as I described, when a gun-nut kid did that he was tossed out on his ass.

And we're not talking "grad school" or "universities" here. Yesterday/'s latest event was, as usual, a high school. Which is also what I described. Nice try but goalpost moving fails.

 

[Pogo]

Part of it can be laid at the feet of the TV show & movie producers, some at the game designers, and some at the news people who glorify the shooters.

A lot of it, if not most of it. That's why I keep pointing the finger at gun culture. Any one of us could flip on the TV right now (or any time) and within seconds find some depiction of somebody being shot, killed or threatened with a gun. That that is the case points to a societal value sickness.

Not to forget that 38 people were killed at a school in Michigan about 90 years ago and none of the deaths were from a firearm...

Bath School disaster - Wikipedia

---- and this has what to do with a discussion on guns?

 

[OnePercenter]

I think it is the increase in single teenage mothers....and social media...as well as left wing, anti American teaching in our schools....

Flashback 30 Years: When Guns Were in Schools ... and Nothing Happened

he millennial generation might be surprised to learn that theirs is the first withoutguns in school. Just 30 years ago, high school kids rode the bus with rifles and shot their guns at high school rifle ranges.

After another school shooting, it's time to ask: what changed?

Cross guns off the list of things that changed in thirty years. In 1985, semi-automatic rifles existed, and a semi-automatic rifle was used in Florida. Guns didn’t suddenly decide to visit mayhem on schools. Guns can’t decide.

-----

We can also cross the Second Amendment off the list. It existed for over 200 years before this wickedness unfolded. Nothing changed in the Constitution.

That leaves us with some uncomfortable possibilities remaining. What has changed from thirty years ago when kids could take firearms into school responsibly and today might involve some difficult truths.

Let’s inventory the possibilities.

What changed? The mainstreaming of nihilism. Cultural decay. Chemicals. The deliberate destruction of moral backstops in the culture. A lost commonality of shared societal pressures to enforce right and wrong. And above all, simple, pure, evil.

Before you retort that we can’t account for the mentally ill, they existed forever.

Paranoid schizophrenics existed in 1888 and 2018. Mentally ill students weren’t showing up in schools with guns even three decades ago.

So it must be something else.

From your link: "The UK has not had a single school shooting since 1996."

 

[JGalt]

Part of it can be laid at the feet of the TV show & movie producers, some at the game designers, and some at the news people who glorify the shooters.

A lot of it, if not most of it. That's why I keep pointing the finger at gun culture. Any one of us could flip on the TV right now (or any time) and within seconds find some depiction of somebody being shot, killed or threatened with a gun. That that is the case points to a societal value sickness.

Not to forget that 38 people were killed at a school in Michigan about 90 years ago and none of the deaths were from a firearm...

Bath School disaster - Wikipedia

---- and this has what to do with a discussion on guns?

It means that any discussion of guns is a waste of time. You will not eliminate murders by enacting more restrictions on firearms ownership, no matter how stringent.

You people had your chance when Obama was President and the Democrats owned the House and Senate.

 

[Pogo]

Part of it can be laid at the feet of the TV show & movie producers, some at the game designers, and some at the news people who glorify the shooters.

A lot of it, if not most of it. That's why I keep pointing the finger at gun culture. Any one of us could flip on the TV right now (or any time) and within seconds find some depiction of somebody being shot, killed or threatened with a gun. That that is the case points to a societal value sickness.

What a farce. Before Miami Vice the gang bangers in LA were using sawed off shotguns like your good buddy biden. After Miami Vice they began arming themselves with all sorts of weapons because they were "cool". Miami Vice said so. So if you wanted to be a good gangster, you had to have the latest and greatest. Add to that the desensitization that violent video games like grand theft auto generate, and the very producers who decry the "violent gun culture" are actually the ones to blame for that "violent gun culture". Before the nightly spate of violence portrayed on TV there was very little actual gun crime.

As usual, you are wrong.

I have no idea what the XXXX "Miami Vice" is supposed to mean but a nightly spate of violence has been portrayed on TV as long as there has been TV.

 

[Pogo]

Part of it can be laid at the feet of the TV show & movie producers, some at the game designers, and some at the news people who glorify the shooters.

A lot of it, if not most of it. That's why I keep pointing the finger at gun culture. Any one of us could flip on the TV right now (or any time) and within seconds find some depiction of somebody being shot, killed or threatened with a gun. That that is the case points to a societal value sickness.

Not to forget that 38 people were killed at a school in Michigan about 90 years ago and none of the deaths were from a firearm...

Bath School disaster - Wikipedia

---- and this has what to do with a discussion on guns?

It means that any discussion of guns is a waste of time.

Ah but we're not talking about "murders" here. "Murders" can be done with bombs, knives, poisons, arranged accidents, any number of methods that have nothing to do with guns. I believe the topic here is gun violence and specifically mass shootings, which have little to do with "murder" -- which is personal -- and everything to do with the sensory input of carnage, which is IMpersonal*, and which is most served by a firearm. Ideally one like the AR used yesterday. Or at Sandy Hook. Or any number of other incidents.

*Murder targets a specific individual, or a specific group. Carnage targets anybody who happens to be in range. While the end result of a mass shooting may be and is legally called murder, its objective from the perp's point of view, is carnage.

You will not eliminate murders by enacting more restrictions on firearms ownership, no matter how stringent.

Yeah no XXXX I've been noting that the entire time I've been on this site, and before. You can't chase this away by throwing legislation at it. But outstanding refutation of a point I never made.

You people had your chance when Obama was President and the Democrats owned the House and Senate.

"You people"?

Insofar as there exists a "people" representing an idea, I don't think "my people" have been listened to at all.