Guns are not the answer...and other stupid things people say....

[2aguy]

Coming from a moron liberal. Guns save more lives then they take. Get your facts straight dickhead. Don’t comeback with some liberal media report. I have seen them all.


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Strange.
We have more gun deaths than any other advanced nation.....
We also have the most guns.

If what you're saying was true...shouldn't we have the least amount of violence....

Our gun violence has gone down every year. More guns less violence. Do you think Venezuela is rethinking there no gun policy as the crime rate has tripled since they did Look at England and there stabbing incidents over the past 6 months. It’s off the charts. Do you think it would be like that if there wasn’t a gun ban. I can go on with Australia as well. All countries with gun bans aren’t doing to well. So to answer your question, any gun ban will raise violence through the roof.


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England's murder rate is 4 times LOWER

And that has nothing to do with guns.....it is the culture that keeps criminals from murdering their victims...and as we see, as the welfare state there has destroyed the nuclear family, their young males are now becoming more and more violent, and killing more and more easily.

Garbage.

Whatever cultural influences we have in the US, they have in W Europe.

We have 30,000 gun deaths a year, they have maybe one a week.

You guys always have to lie....

of the gun deaths in this country?

gun murder, 2017....10,652

gun suicide, 23,864...

So you have to mix suicide with gun murder......and so you are lying....

 

[2aguy]

Guns are not the answer...if the question is what will you have for breakfast, or what time is it...but when it comes to surviving a violent rape, robbery or murder.....yes.....as this video demonstrates, guns are the answer....

Gun in the home, 43 times more likely to kill a household member than a bad guy.

33,000 gun deaths, 70,000 gun injuries, 400,000 gun crimes, 27 BILLION in gun related economic losses every year. A mass shooting just about every other day.

If guns are the answer, I wouldn't want to think of what the question was.

You know that the author of that study on the 43 number recanted...he redid the study and came out with 2.7 times...not correcting the original mistake......you have been shown the paper where he changed that number over and over, and yet you still lie about it...

Here, again, where he changed the number....

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199310073291506

After controlling for these characteristics, we found that keeping a gun in the home was strongly and independently associated with an increased risk of homicide (adjusted odds ratio, 2.7;

https://crimeresearch.org/wp-conten...ack-of-Public-Health-Research-on-Firearms.pdf

In one of the most well-known public health studies on firearms, Kellermann’s “case sample” consists of 444 homicides that occurred in homes. His control group had 388 individuals who lived near the deceased victims and were of the same sex, race, and age range. After learning about the homicide victims and control subjects—whether they owned a gun, had a drug or alcohol problem, etc.—these authors attempted to see if the probability of a homicide correlated with gun ownership.

Amazingly these studies assume that if someone died from a gun shot, and a gun was owned in the home, that it was the gun in the home that killed that person. The paper is clearly misleading, as it fails to report that in only 8 of these 444 homicide cases was the gun that had been kept in the home the murder weapon.

Moreover, the number of criminals stopped with a gun is much higher than the number killed in defensive gun uses. In fact, the attacker is killed in fewer than 1 out of every 1,000 defensive gun uses. Fix either of these data errors and the results are reversed.



The Fallacy of "43 to 1"

The source of the 43-to-1 ratio is a study of firearm deaths in Seattle homes, conducted by doctors Arthur L. Kellermann and Donald T. Reay ("Protection or Peril?: An Analysis of Firearm-Related Deaths in the Home," New England Journal of Medicine, 1986). Kellerman and Reay totaled up the numbers of firearms murders, suicides, and fatal accidents, and then compared that number to the number of firearm deaths that were classified as justifiable homicides. The ratio of murder, suicide, and accidental death to the justifiable homicides was 43 to 1.

This is what the anti-gun lobbies call "scientific" proof that people (except government employees and security guards) should not have guns.

Of the gun deaths in the home, the vast majority are suicides. In the 43-to-1 figure, suicides account for nearly all the 43 unjustifiable deaths.
-------

So by counting accidents and suicides, the 43-to-1 factoid ends up including a very large number of fatalities that would have occurred anyway, even if there were no gun in the home.

Now, how about the self-defense homicides, which Kellermann and Reay found to be so rare? Well, the reason that they found such a low total was that they excluded many cases of lawful self-defense. Kellermann and Reay did not count in the self-defense total of any of the cases where a person who had shot an attacker was acquitted on grounds of self-defense, or cases where a conviction was reversed on appeal on grounds related to self-defense. Yet 40% of women who appeal their murder convictions have the conviction reversed on appeal. ("Fighting Back," Time, Jan. 18, 1993.)

In short, the 43-to-1 figure is based on the totally implausible assumption that all the people who die in gun suicides and gun accidents would not kill themselves with something else if guns were unavailable. The figure is also based on a drastic undercount of the number of lawful self-defense homicides.

Moreover, counting dead criminals to measure the efficacy of civilian handgun ownership is ridiculous. Do we measure the efficacy of our police forces by counting how many people the police lawfully kill every year? The benefits of the police — and of home handgun ownership — are not measured by the number of dead criminals, but by the number of crimes prevented. Simplistic counting of corpses tells us nothing about the real safety value of gun ownership for protection.

 

[2aguy]

Guns are not the answer...if the question is what will you have for breakfast, or what time is it...but when it comes to surviving a violent rape, robbery or murder.....yes.....as this video demonstrates, guns are the answer....

Gun in the home, 43 times more likely to kill a household member than a bad guy.

33,000 gun deaths, 70,000 gun injuries, 400,000 gun crimes, 27 BILLION in gun related economic losses every year. A mass shooting just about every other day.

If guns are the answer, I wouldn't want to think of what the question was.

Guns save more lives than money......you are just wrong...

Case Closed: Kleck Is Still Correct

. If this 1/3 vs. 2/3 ratio of deaths to injuries in actual shootings pertains in these DGUs, that makes for at least 176,000 lives saved—less some attackers who lost their lives to defenders. This enormous benefit dwarfs, both in human and economic terms, the losses trumpeted by hoplophobes who only choose to see the risk side of the equation.


==============
Annual Defensive Gun Use Savings Dwarf Study's "Gun Violence" Costs - The Truth About Guns

But all of that would be a drop in the bucket compared to the $1,000,000,000,000 ($1T) annual benefit of gun ownership.


When compared to the (inflation adjusted from 2002) $127.5 billion ‘cost’ of gun violence calculated by by our Ludwig-Cook buddies, guns save a little more than eight times what they “cost.”


Which, I might add, is completely irrelevant since “the freedom to own and carry the weapon of your choice is a natural, fundamental, and inalienable human, individual, civil, and Constitutional right — subject neither to the democratic process nor to arguments grounded in social utility.”
So even taking Motherboard’s own total and multiplying it by 100, the benefits to society of civilian gun ownership dwarf the associated costs.

 

[2aguy]

We still have 10,000 gun murders......so they are killing people...but Americans use their legal guns 1.1 million times a year to stop criminals of all nationalities and races in this country.

Far more murders than any other advanced society...right?

which has nothing to do with legal gun ownership. In fact, Britain shows that when criminals have guns, using them to commit murder is not mandatory. Our criminals have suffered the breakdown of the family longer than European criminals have...that is the key. The lack of fathers in the home creates killers, not access to guns by law abiding people. As the stats show....more guns, less gun murder, which shows your point is not correct.

The stats show more guns more murder.

No....since as more Americans owning and actually carrying guns was followed by a 49% decrease in gun murder.......that means more guns do not increase the gun murder rate....

You are wrong.

Over the last 26 years, we went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17.25 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2018...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

We have the most guns of any developed nation....and we have far and away the most murders.

More guns equals more gun violence.

Moron....we have more knife murders than all of the murders in Britain right now, dittos clubs and empty hands.....

And their gun murder rate was low before they banned guns and it hasn't changed since they banned guns.....their gun control laws have nothing to do with their gun murder rate.

 

[Bruce_T_Laney]

Guns are not the answer...if the question is what will you have for breakfast, or what time is it...but when it comes to surviving a violent rape, robbery or murder.....yes.....as this video demonstrates, guns are the answer....

No, gun violence against potential criminals is never the answer!

Criminal lives matter!

If a individual breaks into your home to rob, rape or murder you, well you should ask why you were targeted?

You should ask the intruder nicely to leave and if they refuse you should ask yourself what you did wrong in communicating with the intruder.

Offer the intruder some cookies and milk or a grilled cheese sandwich with a coke and nicely ask them to leave afterwards...

Now if the intruder refuses and begin to rape, rob and murder you need to just accept the intruder right to do all that and if the intruder is non-white remember their rights are more important than yours.

After your are taped, robbed and murder the society should blame itself for allowing you to be attractive enough and wealthy enough to have all that.

Your family should be sued if the intruder is injured or contracts any disease while working to end your life.

Criminal lives matter...

( as you finish reading what you wrote just remember who wrote it and enjoy )

 

[miketx]

They are the answer if you crave violence.
Trump supporters crave violence.

Coincidence? No.

Coming from a moron liberal. Guns save more lives then they take. Get your facts straight dickhead. Don’t comeback with some liberal media report. I have seen them all.


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Strange.
We have more gun deaths than any other advanced nation.....
We also have the most guns.

If what you're saying was true...shouldn't we have the least amount of violence....

That's because democrat filth do not want to punish criminals and talk about emptying prisons. Scum all.Today though my gun was the answer. Some freak came walking down the street screaming and cussing. I looked out to see what was up. He yelled at me to get back in my house or he would take me out. I called the police. He saw my pistol and took off. Later I called the police to check what happened. They said they caught up with him after getting a call from a woman about a man with a running chainsaw trying to get in her house. He'd been arrested before.

Conclusion: Liberal scum want to let these kind of people go free.

 

[elongobardi]

You do not finish a sentence with the word “is” simpleton.

There you go again correcting me when you don't even understand the statements you wrote.

There is no rule that forbids ending a sentence with the word is.

It is improper English. Anyone who knows English would agree.

Improper English. Ok Professor Dickhead.


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There is absolutely no grammatical rule that forbids ending a sentence with a verb.

Again, it’s improper. Probably no rule against being a dickhead either. You should stop trying so hard.

The only Dickhead hear is you. Professor Dickhead. Crawl back into your hole loser.


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[miketx]

They are the answer if you crave violence.
Trump supporters crave violence.

Coincidence? No.

Liberals perform violence and we defend ourselves against it, liar.

 

[elongobardi]

There you go again correcting me when you don't even understand the statements you wrote.

There is no rule that forbids ending a sentence with the word is.

It is improper English. Anyone who knows English would agree.

Improper English. Ok Professor Dickhead.


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There is absolutely no grammatical rule that forbids ending a sentence with a verb.

Again, it’s improper. Probably no rule against being a dickhead either. You should stop trying so hard.

But you can't find the grammatical rule that says ending a sentence with a verb is wrong.

So you can't prove your point with actual source material and you give me your worthless opinion that ending a sentence with a verb is "improper".

This from a dullard that doesn't understand what a period at the end of a sentence denotes.

See I just ended another sentence with a verb.

He’s too stupid to know.


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[miketx]

Guns are not the answer...if the question is what will you have for breakfast, or what time is it...but when it comes to surviving a violent rape, robbery or murder.....yes.....as this video demonstrates, guns are the answer....

Gun in the home, 43 times more likely to kill a household member than a bad guy.

33,000 gun deaths, 70,000 gun injuries, 400,000 gun crimes, 27 BILLION in gun related economic losses every year. A mass shooting just about every other day.

If guns are the answer, I wouldn't want to think of what the question was.

Fake news liar. The 43 times bullshit has been debunked so many times only liars still claim it.

 

[elongobardi]

It is improper English. Anyone who knows English would agree.

Improper English. Ok Professor Dickhead.


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There is absolutely no grammatical rule that forbids ending a sentence with a verb.

Again, it’s improper. Probably no rule against being a dickhead either. You should stop trying so hard.

But you can't find the grammatical rule that says ending a sentence with a verb is wrong.

So you can't prove your point with actual source material and you give me your worthless opinion that ending a sentence with a verb is "improper".

This from a dullard that doesn't understand what a period at the end of a sentence denotes.

See I just ended another sentence with a verb.

It is improper English.

It is all I have ever said on the topic shit-brains.

What an asshole. It’s just improper English. Get a new line. Your wrong and pissed that you can’t answer back.


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[miketx]

Post #2 of this thread

Do you have some sort of brain damage?

Trump supporters crave violence. Not sure why you think I said all gun owners crave violence.

Not being able to read at your age actually is a sign of either a poorly developed brain or impact trauma to what you laughably called a brain at one point.

Please have 4th grader explain the post to you and stop embarrassing yourself.

You answered the OP question of are guns the answer and you said


They are the answer if you crave violence.
Trump supporters crave violence.

you included everyone who thinks guns are an answer for self defense not just Trump supporters


Stop lying

Actually I didn’t. I singled out Trump’s supporters there Slingblade.
Again, find a fourth grader (check your van) and have them explain it to you.

Those were two complete sentences not one. Therefore, you gave two answers to the question not one.


Do you not know that a period at the end of a group of words designates a complete statement?

Don't lecture me on grammar until you know what a sentence is.

You do not finish a sentence with the word “is” simpleton.

Liar.

 

[elongobardi]

Strange.
We have more gun deaths than any other advanced nation.....
We also have the most guns.

If what you're saying was true...shouldn't we have the least amount of violence....

Our gun violence has gone down every year. More guns less violence. Do you think Venezuela is rethinking there no gun policy as the crime rate has tripled since they did Look at England and there stabbing incidents over the past 6 months. It’s off the charts. Do you think it would be like that if there wasn’t a gun ban. I can go on with Australia as well. All countries with gun bans aren’t doing to well. So to answer your question, any gun ban will raise violence through the roof.


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England's murder rate is 4 times LOWER

And that has nothing to do with guns.....it is the culture that keeps criminals from murdering their victims...and as we see, as the welfare state there has destroyed the nuclear family, their young males are now becoming more and more violent, and killing more and more easily.

Garbage.

Whatever cultural influences we have in the US, they have in W Europe.

We have 30,000 gun deaths a year, they have maybe one a week.

You guys always have to lie....

of the gun deaths in this country?

gun murder, 2017....10,652

gun suicide, 23,864...

So you have to mix suicide with gun murder......and so you are lying....

They always lie.


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[Bruce_T_Laney]

They are the answer if you crave violence.
Trump supporters crave violence.

Coincidence? No.

Coming from a moron liberal. Guns save more lives then they take. Get your facts straight dickhead. Don’t comeback with some liberal media report. I have seen them all.


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Strange.
We have more gun deaths than any other advanced nation.....
We also have the most guns.

If what you're saying was true...shouldn't we have the least amount of violence....

That's because democrat filth do not want to punish criminals and talk about emptying prisons. Scum all.Today though my gun was the answer. Some freak came walking down the street screaming and cussing. I looked out to see what was up. He yelled at me to get back in my house or he would take me out. I called the police. He saw my pistol and took off. Later I called the police to check what happened. They said they caught up with him after getting a call from a woman about a man with a running chainsaw trying to get in her house. He'd been arrested before.

Conclusion: Liberal scum want to let these kind of people go free.

The guy was just wanting to trim her bush...

Man, you gun nuts make it impossible for people to meet people whil carrying a chainsaw and screaming...

 

[elongobardi]

They are the answer if you crave violence.
Trump supporters crave violence.

Coincidence? No.

Coming from a moron liberal. Guns save more lives then they take. Get your facts straight dickhead. Don’t comeback with some liberal media report. I have seen them all.


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Strange.
We have more gun deaths than any other advanced nation.....
We also have the most guns.

If what you're saying was true...shouldn't we have the least amount of violence....

That's because democrat filth do not want to punish criminals and talk about emptying prisons. Scum all.Today though my gun was the answer. Some freak came walking down the street screaming and cussing. I looked out to see what was up. He yelled at me to get back in my house or he would take me out. I called the police. He saw my pistol and took off. Later I called the police to check what happened. They said they caught up with him after getting a call from a woman about a man with a running chainsaw trying to get in her house. He'd been arrested before.

Conclusion: Liberal scum want to let these kind of people go free.

The guy was just wanting to trim her bush...

Man, you gun nuts make it impossible for people to meet people whil carrying a chainsaw and screaming...

Outdoor and indoor bushes.


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[harmonica]

....if guns stopped/lowers crime, then the US should have one of the lowest crime rates in the world--but it doesn't

 

[harmonica]

Far more murders than any other advanced society...right?

which has nothing to do with legal gun ownership. In fact, Britain shows that when criminals have guns, using them to commit murder is not mandatory. Our criminals have suffered the breakdown of the family longer than European criminals have...that is the key. The lack of fathers in the home creates killers, not access to guns by law abiding people. As the stats show....more guns, less gun murder, which shows your point is not correct.

The stats show more guns more murder.

No....since as more Americans owning and actually carrying guns was followed by a 49% decrease in gun murder.......that means more guns do not increase the gun murder rate....

You are wrong.

Over the last 26 years, we went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17.25 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2018...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

We have the most guns of any developed nation....and we have far and away the most murders.

More guns equals more gun violence.

Wrong. More guns less gun violence. Criminals are less likely to commit crimes if they know that there targets are carrying a gun. NJ, Chicago, NY and states that have strict gun laws have more gun violence. I know Chicago isn’t a state but the have 20 plus homicides in a weekend. Strict gun laws that mean only the criminals have guns. Murder capital of the US. Camden, NJ another murder capital of the US. There are other states as well cities in strong gun control laws that gun violence is ramped up.


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you just proved--beyond a doubt--that you have NO idea what you are talking about !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
you just parrot/suck in bullshit
Chi, NYC, LA and Illinois, NY, and CA have LOWER murder rates
here:
..St Louis Mo is VERY pro-gun--but has a much higher murder rate than strict-gun controlled NYCity and LA
..Stl population 320,000 --------murders 186
..NYC population 8,600,000 --murders 289 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Chi population 2,700,000 ------murders 650
Chi murder rate almost 50% LESS than very pro-gun Stl
Homicides in the city of St. Louis strikes 186 in 2018
NYC sees record low homicides in 2018 based on preliminary data

..STL has a HIGHER murder rate than Chicago

..VERY pro-gun Missouri has a higher murder rate than gun controlled New York, California and Illinois
Murder Rates Nationally and By State | Death Penalty Information Center

....this is all cross checked with StL being in the top ten most dangerous cities lists--NYC, Chi, and LA are NOT in the top 10
#1 most dangerous city--very pro-gun STL
St. Louis Is America's Most Dangerous City: FBI
St. Louis ranked least safe city in America--but it's not all about crime

 

[elongobardi]

....if guns stopped/lowers crime, then the US should have one of the lowest crime rates in the world--but it doesn't

No shit. All the states with strict gun laws have higher crime rates because you can’t carry a gun but can have one at home. Most conservatives have guns at home but the tough gun control states are all Democrats who mostly don’t own guns while some do and lie about it.


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[harmonica]

....if guns stopped/lowers crime, then the US should have one of the lowest crime rates in the world--but it doesn't

No shit. All the states with strict gun laws have higher crime rates because you can’t carry a gun but can have one at home. Most conservatives have guns at home but the tough gun control states are all Democrats who mostly don’t own guns while some do and lie about it.


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WRONG--you just screwed up --again!
see post # 97

 

[elongobardi]

which has nothing to do with legal gun ownership. In fact, Britain shows that when criminals have guns, using them to commit murder is not mandatory. Our criminals have suffered the breakdown of the family longer than European criminals have...that is the key. The lack of fathers in the home creates killers, not access to guns by law abiding people. As the stats show....more guns, less gun murder, which shows your point is not correct.

The stats show more guns more murder.

No....since as more Americans owning and actually carrying guns was followed by a 49% decrease in gun murder.......that means more guns do not increase the gun murder rate....

You are wrong.

Over the last 26 years, we went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17.25 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2018...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

We have the most guns of any developed nation....and we have far and away the most murders.

More guns equals more gun violence.

Wrong. More guns less gun violence. Criminals are less likely to commit crimes if they know that there targets are carrying a gun. NJ, Chicago, NY and states that have strict gun laws have more gun violence. I know Chicago isn’t a state but the have 20 plus homicides in a weekend. Strict gun laws that mean only the criminals have guns. Murder capital of the US. Camden, NJ another murder capital of the US. There are other states as well cities in strong gun control laws that gun violence is ramped up.


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you just proved--beyond a doubt--that you have NO idea what you are talking about !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
you just parrot/suck in bullshit
Chi, NYC, LA and Illinois, NY, and CA have LOWER murder rates
here:
..St Louis Mo is VERY pro-gun--but has a much higher murder rate than strict-gun controlled NYCity and LA
..Stl population 320,000 --------murders 186
..NYC population 8,600,000 --murders 289 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Chi population 2,700,000 ------murders 650
Chi murder rate almost 50% LESS than very pro-gun Stl
Homicides in the city of St. Louis strikes 186 in 2018
NYC sees record low homicides in 2018 based on preliminary data

..STL has a HIGHER murder rate than Chicago

..VERY pro-gun Missouri has a higher murder rate than gun controlled New York, California and Illinois
Murder Rates Nationally and By State | Death Penalty Information Center

....this is all cross checked with StL being in the top ten most dangerous cities lists--NYC, Chi, and LA are NOT in the top 10
#1 most dangerous city--very pro-gun STL
St. Louis Is America's Most Dangerous City: FBI
St. Louis ranked least safe city in America--but it's not all about crime

You dumbass. Look at Chicago and there murder rate. The have the highest in the country and your a liar because the stats are old. Chicago averages 25 to 30 plus homicides a weekend. You also forgot Camden, NJ and DC. Plus your looking at bullshit charts. Try again moron.


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