CDZ gun magazine bullet limits...they only effect law abiding gun owners so why do we need them.

[Skull Pilot]

Why is having a hi cap mag a crime that would deserve the same punishment as murder?

Never said it was. We have laws against jay-walking and murder but they are not punished equally.

you just said the mere ownership of such a mag was worthy of a 25 to life sentence

 

[alang1216]

How is killing someone akin to owning an inanimate object?

Why is mere ownership of anything a crime?

There are plenty of things you are not allowed to own. Atomic bombs, TNT, automatic weapons, etc.

 

[alang1216]

Why is having a hi cap mag a crime that would deserve the same punishment as murder?

Never said it was. We have laws against jay-walking and murder but they are not punished equally.

you just said the mere ownership of such a mag was worthy of a 25 to life sentence

Actually I was quoting you.

 

[Hiryuu]

There are plenty of things you are not allowed to own. Atomic bombs, TNT, automatic weapons, etc.

Yeah, but how many rounds do you think a person should be allowed to have in a magazine to defend their family?

 

[Dekster]

The anti gunners keep pushing for limits on the number of bullets normal people can have in their pistols and rifles........the reason.....if they limit the number to 10, they can ban certain types of pistols and rifles without having to call it a ban and without having to pass gun control legislation banning all of those weapons......

What is the point......who is really effected by magazine bullet limits...

Mass Public shooters....? No. They can kill easily by exchanging magazines...and actual research shows that magazine capacity has no bearing on the number of people killed...

Large-Capacity Magazines and the Casualty Counts in Mass Shootings: The Plausibility of Linkages by Gary Kleck :: SSRN

Large-Capacity Magazines and the Casualty Counts in Mass Shootings: The Plausibility of Linkages by Gary Kleck :: SSRN


Criminals....? No. They can get whatever they want...even in countries with complete bans and confiscation of guns....France bans all semi auto rifles and all fully auto rifles...and their criminals and their terrorists get those rifles and standard magazines easily.....

the people who are hurt....those who are law abiding...who are on their own in the face of criminal attack, who will have no help and will have to rely on their pistol to save their life........

The problem with your argument is that if magazines are limited, it will be part of a bill that bans the guns anyway so I am not sure the trickery is as tricky as you try to paint it as being.

Actually, that isn't accurate...Colorado limited magazines and one of the anti gun Politicians disingenuously said she did not realize that would mean certain guns would be banned too.......

I was referring to a national bans. random state bans are about as effective as pissing in the wind.

 

[2aguy]

the people who are hurt....those who are law abiding...who are on their own in the face of criminal attack, who will have no help and will have to rely on their pistol to save their life........

They can kill easily by exchanging magazines, as you yourself wrote, so they are not really being hurt.

Should we remove laws against murder since criminals will continue to murder regardless? Making large magazines illegal give law-enforcement a lever to use if a terrorist is caught with one.

And no...the research done on magazine capacity shows that it does not matter to mass public shooters.......they can easily kill with 10 round magazines and change them out....they are not in a hurry, they are shooting people who can't shoot back....so the 1-2 seconds it takes to change a magazine is no problem for them.....

it can be a massive problem for an innocent person who has to change a magazine in the middle of a fight for survival.....they are in a hurry, have adrenaline screwing up their small motor actions......and have someone attacking them....who likely is also armed.......

that is why you are wrong...again....

Oh FFS this is the dumbest thing I've ever read. You're just making up pretend facts and walking everything back from a pro-NRA policy position. Of course higher-capacity magazines provide a boost to a shooter in a criminal situation. Otherwise, why have them?

Nope.....from actual reports from the French....

French gunman's arsenal spotlights illegal arms trade

As France asks itself whether it could have done more to prevent Islamist gunman Mohamed Merah shooting dead seven people in a killing spree that shook the nation, there is one question that refuses to go away: how did he obtain so many guns.

The size and nature of the arsenal amassed by Merah - who stockpiled at least eight guns including a Kalashnikov assault rifle and an Uzi machine pistol - has focused attention on the easy availability of illegal weapons in France and their growing use in ultra-violent crimes.

As an angry online reader of the daily Le Figaro newspaper put it: "How was he able to buy all these guns, like one buys yoghurts, when he was under the surveillance of the DCRI (the French intelligence agency)?"


====================
Paris attacks highlight France's gun control problems

But in recent years a black market has proliferated. The number of illegal weapons has risen at a rapid rate – double-digit percentages – for several years, according to the National Observatory for Delinquency, a body created in 2003.

“In Marseille and the surrounding area almost all the score settling is carried out using weapons used in wars,” a police spokesman told Reuters after the Toulouse attacks, adding that Kalashnikovs were the weapon of choice: “If you don’t have a ‘Kalash’ you’re a bit of a loser.”

============================
Paris attacks highlight France's gun control problems

The arsenal of weapons deployed by the eight attackers who terrorised Paris on Friday night underlined France’s gun control problems and raised the spectre of further attacks.

The country has extremely strict weapons laws, but Europe’s open borders and growing trade in illegal weapons means assault rifles are relatively easy to come by on the black market.



-------------=================
France’s real gun problem

Despite these strict laws, France seems to be awash with guns. The guns used in high-profile terror attacks are really just the tip of the iceberg. In 2012, French authorities estimated that there were around 30,000 guns illegally in the country, many likely used by gangs for criminal activities. Of those guns, around 4,000 were likely to be "war weapons," Le Figaro reported, referring to items such as the Kalashnikov AK-variant rifles and Uzis. Statistics from the National Observatory for Delinquency, a government body created in 2003, suggest that the number of guns in France has grown by double digits every year.
----------------------
How Europe's Terrorists Get Their Guns

France became particularly worried about the trafficking of illegal guns in 2012, increasing fines and jail terms for those involved in the trafficking and possession of them. Interior Minister Bernard Cazeneuve said in Septemberthat police have seized nearly 6,000 weapons from criminal groups each year since 2013, 1,200 of which were military assault weapons. And in the three weeks following the Nov. 13 attacks, Cazeneuve said French police seized 334 weapons, 34 of them military-grade.

Several officials and experts tell TIME they’ve seen a noticeable climb in both the numbers and the types of illicit weapons crossing borders over the past few years. Rather than pistols and small guns, there has been a spike in demand for military-grade assault weapons. This reflects a very different kind of criminality: petty criminals and drug dealers tend to want small pistols that they can conceal; terrorists want AK-47s that can do maximum damage.

 

[GaryDog]

the people who are hurt....those who are law abiding...who are on their own in the face of criminal attack, who will have no help and will have to rely on their pistol to save their life........

They can kill easily by exchanging magazines, as you yourself wrote, so they are not really being hurt.

Should we remove laws against murder since criminals will continue to murder regardless? Making large magazines illegal give law-enforcement a lever to use if a terrorist is caught with one.

And no...the research done on magazine capacity shows that it does not matter to mass public shooters.......they can easily kill with 10 round magazines and change them out....they are not in a hurry, they are shooting people who can't shoot back....so the 1-2 seconds it takes to change a magazine is no problem for them.....

it can be a massive problem for an innocent person who has to change a magazine in the middle of a fight for survival.....they are in a hurry, have adrenaline screwing up their small motor actions......and have someone attacking them....who likely is also armed.......

that is why you are wrong...again....

Oh FFS this is the dumbest thing I've ever read. You're just making up pretend facts and walking everything back from a pro-NRA policy position. Of course higher-capacity magazines provide a boost to a shooter in a criminal situation. Otherwise, why have them?

Nope.....from actual reports from the French....

French gunman's arsenal spotlights illegal arms trade

As France asks itself whether it could have done more to prevent Islamist gunman Mohamed Merah shooting dead seven people in a killing spree that shook the nation, there is one question that refuses to go away: how did he obtain so many guns.

The size and nature of the arsenal amassed by Merah - who stockpiled at least eight guns including a Kalashnikov assault rifle and an Uzi machine pistol - has focused attention on the easy availability of illegal weapons in France and their growing use in ultra-violent crimes.

As an angry online reader of the daily Le Figaro newspaper put it: "How was he able to buy all these guns, like one buys yoghurts, when he was under the surveillance of the DCRI (the French intelligence agency)?"


====================
Paris attacks highlight France's gun control problems

But in recent years a black market has proliferated. The number of illegal weapons has risen at a rapid rate – double-digit percentages – for several years, according to the National Observatory for Delinquency, a body created in 2003.

“In Marseille and the surrounding area almost all the score settling is carried out using weapons used in wars,” a police spokesman told Reuters after the Toulouse attacks, adding that Kalashnikovs were the weapon of choice: “If you don’t have a ‘Kalash’ you’re a bit of a loser.”

============================
Paris attacks highlight France's gun control problems

The arsenal of weapons deployed by the eight attackers who terrorised Paris on Friday night underlined France’s gun control problems and raised the spectre of further attacks.

The country has extremely strict weapons laws, but Europe’s open borders and growing trade in illegal weapons means assault rifles are relatively easy to come by on the black market.



-------------=================
France’s real gun problem

Despite these strict laws, France seems to be awash with guns. The guns used in high-profile terror attacks are really just the tip of the iceberg. In 2012, French authorities estimated that there were around 30,000 guns illegally in the country, many likely used by gangs for criminal activities. Of those guns, around 4,000 were likely to be "war weapons," Le Figaro reported, referring to items such as the Kalashnikov AK-variant rifles and Uzis. Statistics from the National Observatory for Delinquency, a government body created in 2003, suggest that the number of guns in France has grown by double digits every year.
----------------------
How Europe's Terrorists Get Their Guns

France became particularly worried about the trafficking of illegal guns in 2012, increasing fines and jail terms for those involved in the trafficking and possession of them. Interior Minister Bernard Cazeneuve said in Septemberthat police have seized nearly 6,000 weapons from criminal groups each year since 2013, 1,200 of which were military assault weapons. And in the three weeks following the Nov. 13 attacks, Cazeneuve said French police seized 334 weapons, 34 of them military-grade.

Several officials and experts tell TIME they’ve seen a noticeable climb in both the numbers and the types of illicit weapons crossing borders over the past few years. Rather than pistols and small guns, there has been a spike in demand for military-grade assault weapons. This reflects a very different kind of criminality: petty criminals and drug dealers tend to want small pistols that they can conceal; terrorists want AK-47s that can do maximum damage.

Right, so because the evildoer had easy access to illegal guns, the access is to give EVERYONE easy access to guns.

Why limit this to the occasional horrific terrorist attack of 70 people when it could easily be a national epidemic like it is in the U.S.?

 

[2aguy]

Should we remove laws against murder since criminals will continue to murder regardless?

I love how you people try to make this argument, fully unaware of its inanity

Funny, that's what I think when gun nuts claim that restrictions will not be followed by criminals.

Well of course they will. By the very nature of not following the restriction, that person is a criminal. Your logical fallacy is obvious to everyone but you.

This is how hard it is to buy guns in France...if you are a criminal...

European Police Face Being Outgunned by Jihadists With Assault Rifles



But although the police quickly traced the weapons source in the Paris attacks, stopping criminals and other jihadist cells in Europe from acquiring assault weapons for further attacks might not be so easy, according to police officials.



French police believe rifles are on sale in French cities for between €1,000 and €1,500. Earlier this month, Philippe Capon, head of the French police union UNSA, told Bloomberg News, “The French black market for weapons has been inundated with eastern European war artillery and arms.” A French police source told TIME that the weapons from the Charlie Hebdoattack came from the Balkans.



The trade in illegal weapons can earn enormous profits for organized criminal gangs — enough to make the risk of capture worthwhile. Donald says recent investigations have found arms traffickers investing about €30,000 in a shipment of Balkan-era weapons, refurbishing them in their garages, then selling them for them for about 10 times the price. “That’s a huge mark-up,” he says.




--

 

[2aguy]

the people who are hurt....those who are law abiding...who are on their own in the face of criminal attack, who will have no help and will have to rely on their pistol to save their life........

They can kill easily by exchanging magazines, as you yourself wrote, so they are not really being hurt.

Should we remove laws against murder since criminals will continue to murder regardless? Making large magazines illegal give law-enforcement a lever to use if a terrorist is caught with one.

And no...the research done on magazine capacity shows that it does not matter to mass public shooters.......they can easily kill with 10 round magazines and change them out....they are not in a hurry, they are shooting people who can't shoot back....so the 1-2 seconds it takes to change a magazine is no problem for them.....

it can be a massive problem for an innocent person who has to change a magazine in the middle of a fight for survival.....they are in a hurry, have adrenaline screwing up their small motor actions......and have someone attacking them....who likely is also armed.......

that is why you are wrong...again....

Oh FFS this is the dumbest thing I've ever read. You're just making up pretend facts and walking everything back from a pro-NRA policy position. Of course higher-capacity magazines provide a boost to a shooter in a criminal situation. Otherwise, why have them?

Nope.....from actual reports from the French....

French gunman's arsenal spotlights illegal arms trade

As France asks itself whether it could have done more to prevent Islamist gunman Mohamed Merah shooting dead seven people in a killing spree that shook the nation, there is one question that refuses to go away: how did he obtain so many guns.

The size and nature of the arsenal amassed by Merah - who stockpiled at least eight guns including a Kalashnikov assault rifle and an Uzi machine pistol - has focused attention on the easy availability of illegal weapons in France and their growing use in ultra-violent crimes.

As an angry online reader of the daily Le Figaro newspaper put it: "How was he able to buy all these guns, like one buys yoghurts, when he was under the surveillance of the DCRI (the French intelligence agency)?"


====================
Paris attacks highlight France's gun control problems

But in recent years a black market has proliferated. The number of illegal weapons has risen at a rapid rate – double-digit percentages – for several years, according to the National Observatory for Delinquency, a body created in 2003.

“In Marseille and the surrounding area almost all the score settling is carried out using weapons used in wars,” a police spokesman told Reuters after the Toulouse attacks, adding that Kalashnikovs were the weapon of choice: “If you don’t have a ‘Kalash’ you’re a bit of a loser.”

============================
Paris attacks highlight France's gun control problems

The arsenal of weapons deployed by the eight attackers who terrorised Paris on Friday night underlined France’s gun control problems and raised the spectre of further attacks.

The country has extremely strict weapons laws, but Europe’s open borders and growing trade in illegal weapons means assault rifles are relatively easy to come by on the black market.



-------------=================
France’s real gun problem

Despite these strict laws, France seems to be awash with guns. The guns used in high-profile terror attacks are really just the tip of the iceberg. In 2012, French authorities estimated that there were around 30,000 guns illegally in the country, many likely used by gangs for criminal activities. Of those guns, around 4,000 were likely to be "war weapons," Le Figaro reported, referring to items such as the Kalashnikov AK-variant rifles and Uzis. Statistics from the National Observatory for Delinquency, a government body created in 2003, suggest that the number of guns in France has grown by double digits every year.
----------------------
How Europe's Terrorists Get Their Guns

France became particularly worried about the trafficking of illegal guns in 2012, increasing fines and jail terms for those involved in the trafficking and possession of them. Interior Minister Bernard Cazeneuve said in Septemberthat police have seized nearly 6,000 weapons from criminal groups each year since 2013, 1,200 of which were military assault weapons. And in the three weeks following the Nov. 13 attacks, Cazeneuve said French police seized 334 weapons, 34 of them military-grade.

Several officials and experts tell TIME they’ve seen a noticeable climb in both the numbers and the types of illicit weapons crossing borders over the past few years. Rather than pistols and small guns, there has been a spike in demand for military-grade assault weapons. This reflects a very different kind of criminality: petty criminals and drug dealers tend to want small pistols that they can conceal; terrorists want AK-47s that can do maximum damage.

Right, so because the evildoer had easy access to illegal guns, the access is to give EVERYONE easy access to guns.

Why limit this to the occasional horrific terrorist attack of 70 people when it could easily be a national epidemic like it is in the U.S.?

Yes.......law abiding people do not use them for crime...in fact they use them to stop criminals from attacking them....Americans use guns 1,500,000 times a year to stop violent criminal attack and to save lives and many times they stop mass public shooters..........

Taking guns away from law abiding people does not stop gun crime.......

 

[GaryDog]

They can kill easily by exchanging magazines, as you yourself wrote, so they are not really being hurt.

Should we remove laws against murder since criminals will continue to murder regardless? Making large magazines illegal give law-enforcement a lever to use if a terrorist is caught with one.

And no...the research done on magazine capacity shows that it does not matter to mass public shooters.......they can easily kill with 10 round magazines and change them out....they are not in a hurry, they are shooting people who can't shoot back....so the 1-2 seconds it takes to change a magazine is no problem for them.....

it can be a massive problem for an innocent person who has to change a magazine in the middle of a fight for survival.....they are in a hurry, have adrenaline screwing up their small motor actions......and have someone attacking them....who likely is also armed.......

that is why you are wrong...again....

Oh FFS this is the dumbest thing I've ever read. You're just making up pretend facts and walking everything back from a pro-NRA policy position. Of course higher-capacity magazines provide a boost to a shooter in a criminal situation. Otherwise, why have them?

Nope.....from actual reports from the French....

French gunman's arsenal spotlights illegal arms trade

As France asks itself whether it could have done more to prevent Islamist gunman Mohamed Merah shooting dead seven people in a killing spree that shook the nation, there is one question that refuses to go away: how did he obtain so many guns.

The size and nature of the arsenal amassed by Merah - who stockpiled at least eight guns including a Kalashnikov assault rifle and an Uzi machine pistol - has focused attention on the easy availability of illegal weapons in France and their growing use in ultra-violent crimes.

As an angry online reader of the daily Le Figaro newspaper put it: "How was he able to buy all these guns, like one buys yoghurts, when he was under the surveillance of the DCRI (the French intelligence agency)?"


====================
Paris attacks highlight France's gun control problems

But in recent years a black market has proliferated. The number of illegal weapons has risen at a rapid rate – double-digit percentages – for several years, according to the National Observatory for Delinquency, a body created in 2003.

“In Marseille and the surrounding area almost all the score settling is carried out using weapons used in wars,” a police spokesman told Reuters after the Toulouse attacks, adding that Kalashnikovs were the weapon of choice: “If you don’t have a ‘Kalash’ you’re a bit of a loser.”

============================
Paris attacks highlight France's gun control problems

The arsenal of weapons deployed by the eight attackers who terrorised Paris on Friday night underlined France’s gun control problems and raised the spectre of further attacks.

The country has extremely strict weapons laws, but Europe’s open borders and growing trade in illegal weapons means assault rifles are relatively easy to come by on the black market.



-------------=================
France’s real gun problem

Despite these strict laws, France seems to be awash with guns. The guns used in high-profile terror attacks are really just the tip of the iceberg. In 2012, French authorities estimated that there were around 30,000 guns illegally in the country, many likely used by gangs for criminal activities. Of those guns, around 4,000 were likely to be "war weapons," Le Figaro reported, referring to items such as the Kalashnikov AK-variant rifles and Uzis. Statistics from the National Observatory for Delinquency, a government body created in 2003, suggest that the number of guns in France has grown by double digits every year.
----------------------
How Europe's Terrorists Get Their Guns

France became particularly worried about the trafficking of illegal guns in 2012, increasing fines and jail terms for those involved in the trafficking and possession of them. Interior Minister Bernard Cazeneuve said in Septemberthat police have seized nearly 6,000 weapons from criminal groups each year since 2013, 1,200 of which were military assault weapons. And in the three weeks following the Nov. 13 attacks, Cazeneuve said French police seized 334 weapons, 34 of them military-grade.

Several officials and experts tell TIME they’ve seen a noticeable climb in both the numbers and the types of illicit weapons crossing borders over the past few years. Rather than pistols and small guns, there has been a spike in demand for military-grade assault weapons. This reflects a very different kind of criminality: petty criminals and drug dealers tend to want small pistols that they can conceal; terrorists want AK-47s that can do maximum damage.

Right, so because the evildoer had easy access to illegal guns, the access is to give EVERYONE easy access to guns.

Why limit this to the occasional horrific terrorist attack of 70 people when it could easily be a national epidemic like it is in the U.S.?

Yes.......law abiding people do not use them for crime...in fact they use them to stop criminals from attacking them....Americans use guns 1,500,000 times a year to stop violent criminal attack and to save lives and many times they stop mass public shooters..........

Taking guns away from law abiding people does not stop gun crime.......

Repeating the same ridiculous statistic over and over doesn't make it true.

 

[2aguy]

The anti gunners keep pushing for limits on the number of bullets normal people can have in their pistols and rifles........the reason.....if they limit the number to 10, they can ban certain types of pistols and rifles without having to call it a ban and without having to pass gun control legislation banning all of those weapons......

What is the point......who is really effected by magazine bullet limits...

Mass Public shooters....? No. They can kill easily by exchanging magazines...and actual research shows that magazine capacity has no bearing on the number of people killed...

Large-Capacity Magazines and the Casualty Counts in Mass Shootings: The Plausibility of Linkages by Gary Kleck :: SSRN

Large-Capacity Magazines and the Casualty Counts in Mass Shootings: The Plausibility of Linkages by Gary Kleck :: SSRN


Criminals....? No. They can get whatever they want...even in countries with complete bans and confiscation of guns....France bans all semi auto rifles and all fully auto rifles...and their criminals and their terrorists get those rifles and standard magazines easily.....

the people who are hurt....those who are law abiding...who are on their own in the face of criminal attack, who will have no help and will have to rely on their pistol to save their life........

Nevermind that France has a tiny fraction of the # of gun deaths we do.

Again.......their criminals have all the access to guns they want.....they prefer fully automatic AK-47s and those rifles have become status symbols among French criminals...........criminals and terrorists get guns easily in France....law abiding people can't get them...
You are wrong...again....

Okay. Prove it. What's the gun death rate in France as compared to the U.S.?

Their criminals don't commit murder as often as our criminals do...regardless of weapon......and yet they have easy access to guns..........our non gun murder rate is higher than their entire murder rate......

It is the criminal culture and their willingness to commit murder that is different...our criminals shoot and murder 9 year old boys in alleys to get revenge on the boys gang banger father......theirs don't do that......

You believe that the mere precense of guns creates gun murder....and that is where you are wrong.......

We had 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s......we now have 357,000,000 guns in private hands...and our gun murder rate went down........our gun crime rate went down....our violent crime rate went down......adding guns did not increase gun crime...you are wrong.

Britain confiscated guns from law abiding gun owners...and their gun crime rate stayed the same......

Guns do not create murder.....social factors that create the criminal sub culture and their attitude toward murder do.......

I don't see a French gun murder rate ANYWHERE in this tripe. Are you afraid to answer?

No.....their entire murder rate is lower than our non gun murder rate......their criminals do not commit murder...ours do.....their criminals can get guns easily.......they just don't use them to commit murder against each other or civilians that often........but even terrorists on government terrorist watch lists can get guns easily in France.....

 

[2aguy]

And no...the research done on magazine capacity shows that it does not matter to mass public shooters.......they can easily kill with 10 round magazines and change them out....they are not in a hurry, they are shooting people who can't shoot back....so the 1-2 seconds it takes to change a magazine is no problem for them.....

it can be a massive problem for an innocent person who has to change a magazine in the middle of a fight for survival.....they are in a hurry, have adrenaline screwing up their small motor actions......and have someone attacking them....who likely is also armed.......

that is why you are wrong...again....

Oh FFS this is the dumbest thing I've ever read. You're just making up pretend facts and walking everything back from a pro-NRA policy position. Of course higher-capacity magazines provide a boost to a shooter in a criminal situation. Otherwise, why have them?

Nope.....from actual reports from the French....

French gunman's arsenal spotlights illegal arms trade

As France asks itself whether it could have done more to prevent Islamist gunman Mohamed Merah shooting dead seven people in a killing spree that shook the nation, there is one question that refuses to go away: how did he obtain so many guns.

The size and nature of the arsenal amassed by Merah - who stockpiled at least eight guns including a Kalashnikov assault rifle and an Uzi machine pistol - has focused attention on the easy availability of illegal weapons in France and their growing use in ultra-violent crimes.

As an angry online reader of the daily Le Figaro newspaper put it: "How was he able to buy all these guns, like one buys yoghurts, when he was under the surveillance of the DCRI (the French intelligence agency)?"


====================
Paris attacks highlight France's gun control problems

But in recent years a black market has proliferated. The number of illegal weapons has risen at a rapid rate – double-digit percentages – for several years, according to the National Observatory for Delinquency, a body created in 2003.

“In Marseille and the surrounding area almost all the score settling is carried out using weapons used in wars,” a police spokesman told Reuters after the Toulouse attacks, adding that Kalashnikovs were the weapon of choice: “If you don’t have a ‘Kalash’ you’re a bit of a loser.”

============================
Paris attacks highlight France's gun control problems

The arsenal of weapons deployed by the eight attackers who terrorised Paris on Friday night underlined France’s gun control problems and raised the spectre of further attacks.

The country has extremely strict weapons laws, but Europe’s open borders and growing trade in illegal weapons means assault rifles are relatively easy to come by on the black market.



-------------=================
France’s real gun problem

Despite these strict laws, France seems to be awash with guns. The guns used in high-profile terror attacks are really just the tip of the iceberg. In 2012, French authorities estimated that there were around 30,000 guns illegally in the country, many likely used by gangs for criminal activities. Of those guns, around 4,000 were likely to be "war weapons," Le Figaro reported, referring to items such as the Kalashnikov AK-variant rifles and Uzis. Statistics from the National Observatory for Delinquency, a government body created in 2003, suggest that the number of guns in France has grown by double digits every year.
----------------------
How Europe's Terrorists Get Their Guns

France became particularly worried about the trafficking of illegal guns in 2012, increasing fines and jail terms for those involved in the trafficking and possession of them. Interior Minister Bernard Cazeneuve said in Septemberthat police have seized nearly 6,000 weapons from criminal groups each year since 2013, 1,200 of which were military assault weapons. And in the three weeks following the Nov. 13 attacks, Cazeneuve said French police seized 334 weapons, 34 of them military-grade.

Several officials and experts tell TIME they’ve seen a noticeable climb in both the numbers and the types of illicit weapons crossing borders over the past few years. Rather than pistols and small guns, there has been a spike in demand for military-grade assault weapons. This reflects a very different kind of criminality: petty criminals and drug dealers tend to want small pistols that they can conceal; terrorists want AK-47s that can do maximum damage.

Right, so because the evildoer had easy access to illegal guns, the access is to give EVERYONE easy access to guns.

Why limit this to the occasional horrific terrorist attack of 70 people when it could easily be a national epidemic like it is in the U.S.?

Yes.......law abiding people do not use them for crime...in fact they use them to stop criminals from attacking them....Americans use guns 1,500,000 times a year to stop violent criminal attack and to save lives and many times they stop mass public shooters..........

Taking guns away from law abiding people does not stop gun crime.......

Repeating the same ridiculous statistic over and over doesn't make it true.

And denying the truth doesn't make you intelligent.....the 1,500,000 times a year for defensive gun use comes from the U.S. Department of Justice ..........

 

[2aguy]

The anti gunners keep pushing for limits on the number of bullets normal people can have in their pistols and rifles........the reason.....if they limit the number to 10, they can ban certain types of pistols and rifles without having to call it a ban and without having to pass gun control legislation banning all of those weapons......

What is the point......who is really effected by magazine bullet limits...

Mass Public shooters....? No. They can kill easily by exchanging magazines...and actual research shows that magazine capacity has no bearing on the number of people killed...

Large-Capacity Magazines and the Casualty Counts in Mass Shootings: The Plausibility of Linkages by Gary Kleck :: SSRN

Large-Capacity Magazines and the Casualty Counts in Mass Shootings: The Plausibility of Linkages by Gary Kleck :: SSRN


Criminals....? No. They can get whatever they want...even in countries with complete bans and confiscation of guns....France bans all semi auto rifles and all fully auto rifles...and their criminals and their terrorists get those rifles and standard magazines easily.....

the people who are hurt....those who are law abiding...who are on their own in the face of criminal attack, who will have no help and will have to rely on their pistol to save their life........

The problem with your argument is that if magazines are limited, it will be part of a bill that bans the guns anyway so I am not sure the trickery is as tricky as you try to paint it as being.

Actually, that isn't accurate...Colorado limited magazines and one of the anti gun Politicians disingenuously said she did not realize that would mean certain guns would be banned too.......

I was referring to a national bans. random state bans are about as effective as pissing in the wind.

They have national bans in France....didn't stop their criminals or terrorists from getting fully automatic rifles and magazines...did it?

 

[GaryDog]

The anti gunners keep pushing for limits on the number of bullets normal people can have in their pistols and rifles........the reason.....if they limit the number to 10, they can ban certain types of pistols and rifles without having to call it a ban and without having to pass gun control legislation banning all of those weapons......

What is the point......who is really effected by magazine bullet limits...

Mass Public shooters....? No. They can kill easily by exchanging magazines...and actual research shows that magazine capacity has no bearing on the number of people killed...

Large-Capacity Magazines and the Casualty Counts in Mass Shootings: The Plausibility of Linkages by Gary Kleck :: SSRN

Large-Capacity Magazines and the Casualty Counts in Mass Shootings: The Plausibility of Linkages by Gary Kleck :: SSRN


Criminals....? No. They can get whatever they want...even in countries with complete bans and confiscation of guns....France bans all semi auto rifles and all fully auto rifles...and their criminals and their terrorists get those rifles and standard magazines easily.....

the people who are hurt....those who are law abiding...who are on their own in the face of criminal attack, who will have no help and will have to rely on their pistol to save their life........

The problem with your argument is that if magazines are limited, it will be part of a bill that bans the guns anyway so I am not sure the trickery is as tricky as you try to paint it as being.

Actually, that isn't accurate...Colorado limited magazines and one of the anti gun Politicians disingenuously said she did not realize that would mean certain guns would be banned too.......

I was referring to a national bans. random state bans are about as effective as pissing in the wind.

They have national bans in France....didn't stop their criminals or terrorists from getting fully automatic rifles and magazines...did it?

Anecdotes are plural for bullshit. Their citizens are safer because of their gun laws. Literally millions are alive now precisely because they don't have our culture of gun usage and weak gun laws.

 

[alang1216]

There are plenty of things you are not allowed to own. Atomic bombs, TNT, automatic weapons, etc.

Yeah, but how many rounds do you think a person should be allowed to have in a magazine to defend their family?

Exactly as many as they need. But no more than that in a single magazine. I have no idea what the number should be, I really don't, are there any statistics for such things? My gut tells me if I have one bullet to defend myself I'm going to make it count. If I have a thousand, why worry about being so careful with them? A few warning shots may work well (or hit my neighbors house).

 

[OnePercenter]

The anti gunners keep pushing for limits on the number of bullets normal people can have in their pistols and rifles........the reason.....if they limit the number to 10, they can ban certain types of pistols and rifles without having to call it a ban and without having to pass gun control legislation banning all of those weapons......

What is the point......who is really effected by magazine bullet limits...

Mass Public shooters....? No. They can kill easily by exchanging magazines...and actual research shows that magazine capacity has no bearing on the number of people killed...

Large-Capacity Magazines and the Casualty Counts in Mass Shootings: The Plausibility of Linkages by Gary Kleck :: SSRN

Large-Capacity Magazines and the Casualty Counts in Mass Shootings: The Plausibility of Linkages by Gary Kleck :: SSRN


Criminals....? No. They can get whatever they want...even in countries with complete bans and confiscation of guns....France bans all semi auto rifles and all fully auto rifles...and their criminals and their terrorists get those rifles and standard magazines easily.....

the people who are hurt....those who are law abiding...who are on their own in the face of criminal attack, who will have no help and will have to rely on their pistol to save their life........

The problem with your argument is that if magazines are limited, it will be part of a bill that bans the guns anyway so I am not sure the trickery is as tricky as you try to paint it as being.

He's a foilhead.

 

[2aguy]

The anti gunners keep pushing for limits on the number of bullets normal people can have in their pistols and rifles........the reason.....if they limit the number to 10, they can ban certain types of pistols and rifles without having to call it a ban and without having to pass gun control legislation banning all of those weapons......

What is the point......who is really effected by magazine bullet limits...

Mass Public shooters....? No. They can kill easily by exchanging magazines...and actual research shows that magazine capacity has no bearing on the number of people killed...

Large-Capacity Magazines and the Casualty Counts in Mass Shootings: The Plausibility of Linkages by Gary Kleck :: SSRN

Large-Capacity Magazines and the Casualty Counts in Mass Shootings: The Plausibility of Linkages by Gary Kleck :: SSRN


Criminals....? No. They can get whatever they want...even in countries with complete bans and confiscation of guns....France bans all semi auto rifles and all fully auto rifles...and their criminals and their terrorists get those rifles and standard magazines easily.....

the people who are hurt....those who are law abiding...who are on their own in the face of criminal attack, who will have no help and will have to rely on their pistol to save their life........

The problem with your argument is that if magazines are limited, it will be part of a bill that bans the guns anyway so I am not sure the trickery is as tricky as you try to paint it as being.

Actually, that isn't accurate...Colorado limited magazines and one of the anti gun Politicians disingenuously said she did not realize that would mean certain guns would be banned too.......

I was referring to a national bans. random state bans are about as effective as pissing in the wind.

They have national bans in France....didn't stop their criminals or terrorists from getting fully automatic rifles and magazines...did it?

Anecdotes are plural for bullshit. Their citizens are safer because of their gun laws. Literally millions are alive now precisely because they don't have our culture of gun usage and weak gun laws.

Their criminals get guns easily...I posted links to the actual news stories from police officials........their criminal culture does not commit murder as often as our criminals do........you assume that the mere presence of guns create murder, and it doesn't.......if that were the case....more guns would mean more gun murder and that isn't born out by actual, real world statistics....

There were 200 million guns in private hands in 1990s....there are now 357,000,000 and our gun mirder rate went down.......by almost 50% from the 90s till now........

You are wrong...your beliefs have no basis in fact or reality.

 

[OnePercenter]

All arguments for banning "hi capacity" magazines are based ion fallacious appeals to emotion, ignorance and/or dishonesty.

Mass shooting: You can fire 31 bullets in 15 seconds with a Glock 19 handgun.

 

[Skull Pilot]

How is killing someone akin to owning an inanimate object?

Why is mere ownership of anything a crime?

There are plenty of things you are not allowed to own. Atomic bombs, TNT, automatic weapons, etc.

Not true you can own all the makings of an atomic bomb it's only the fissile material that is controlled
You can own an automatic weapon, TNT, etc with the proper permits

 

[Skull Pilot]

Why is having a hi cap mag a crime that would deserve the same punishment as murder?

Never said it was. We have laws against jay-walking and murder but they are not punished equally.

you just said the mere ownership of such a mag was worthy of a 25 to life sentence

Actually I was quoting you.

I was referencing illegal possession of firearms

A magazine is not a firearm