Gun Debate Illustrates Two Different Americas

[DrLove]

I read the SB 260. It didn't have a chance in hell to pass. It was so restrictive that almost any semi auto rifle or handgun would have been caught by it. It's definition of "Assault Weapon" was definately restrictive. No one in their right mind would vote for it and they didn't. It didn't pass by a very wide margin. Almost no one voted for it. There really isn't a point here.

Precisely what I was trying to get at but you said it better. This is fear mongering barfed up by the NRA. There simply aren't enough pols in ANY state go pass something banning all semi-auto.

 

[DrLove]

Well, if the local school board and local law enforcement approves then fine with me assuming they are highly skilled and pass a number of tactical drills.

But IMHO they'd be nuts to do it. Scenario: There's a code red and cops show up - There's a teacher with a gun who they don't know from Adam - In that case said teacher should probably prepare to die.

You don't think the cops would have gotten clear description of the suspect, before arriving at the school ?

Nope - the school resource officer may know the teacher, but this shit happens too fast for cops arriving on the scene to have any sort of accurate description of the perp, OR know the armed teacher.

And that is why MOST law enforcement associations oppose.

 

[2aguy]

I read the SB 260. It didn't have a chance in hell to pass. It was so restrictive that almost any semi auto rifle or handgun would have been caught by it. It's definition of "Assault Weapon" was definately restrictive. No one in their right mind would vote for it and they didn't. It didn't pass by a very wide margin. Almost no one voted for it. There really isn't a point here.

Precisely what I was trying to get at but you said it better. This is fear mongering barfed up by the NRA. There simply aren't enough pols in ANY state go pass something banning all semi-auto.

You keep attacking the NRA...the NRA supports the FIX NICS act....the democrats oppose it.

The NRA trains local, state and federal law enforcement...the democrats constantly attack law enforcement and prevent them from arresting violent gun criminals.

You keep attacking the NRA...the NRA supports armed security and armed staff in the schools, the democrats oppose it.

The NRA teaches fun safety to millions of children...the democrats fight teaching gun safety to kids.

The NRA supports keeping violent gun offenders in prison, the democrats let violent gun offenders out of jail and pass laws letting them out early.

The NRA doesn't support the PROMISE PROGRAM, of obama, which allowed the shooter to get the gun...the democrats created and support the Promise program...which allowed the shooter to get his gun...

Since those are the facts, the truth and the reality.....

Of the two groups...the democrats are the ones supporting violent murder, not the NRA...

 

[DrLove]

1. I think your numbers are off on arming teachers - From your link:

Forty-four percent of Americans say they’d support arming more teachers, while 50 percent oppose the move.

In addition, law enforcement is opposed:
https://www.usnews.com/news/politic...dvocacy-group-says-it-opposes-arming-teachers

Even in Florida:
Florida sheriff comes out against arming teachers: 'Teachers should teach'

I noticed that number oddity too. We couldn't have 104%. But the poll (Politico) at least has the arming teacher supporters in the majority.

As for cops opposing arming teachers, what else is new ? All my life, I've known that cops don't like citizens having guns. They don't like arming teachers, don't like CCW, etc. They would like the only ones to have guns be THEM. Nothing special or new there.

So what would be the problem with adding one or two highly trained law enforcement professionals (number dependent on size of school) ???

You distrust a cop with years of training but embrace an armed neophyte? Don't get it.

 

[DrLove]

You keep attacking the NRA...the NRA supports the FIX NICS act....the democrats oppose it.

The NRA trains local, state and federal law enforcement...the democrats constantly attack law enforcement and prevent them from arresting violent gun criminals.

You keep attacking the NRA...the NRA supports armed security and armed staff in the schools, the democrats oppose it.

The NRA teaches fun safety to millions of children...the democrats fight teaching gun safety to kids.

The NRA supports keeping violent gun offenders in prison, the democrats let violent gun offenders out of jail and pass laws letting them out early.

The NRA doesn't support the PROMISE PROGRAM, of obama, which allowed the shooter to get the gun...the democrats created and support the Promise program...which allowed the shooter to get his gun...

Since those are the facts, the truth and the reality.....

Of the two groups...the democrats are the ones supporting violent murder, not the NRA...

The NRA used to be a legitimate organization that represented individual sportsmen and home defenders.

They are now a wholly owned subsidiary of MANUFACTURERS.

But if you want to send them your hard earned dollars - Be my guest!

 

[2aguy]

Well, if the local school board and local law enforcement approves then fine with me assuming they are highly skilled and pass a number of tactical drills.

But IMHO they'd be nuts to do it. Scenario: There's a code red and cops show up - There's a teacher with a gun who they don't know from Adam - In that case said teacher should probably prepare to die.

You don't think the cops would have gotten clear description of the suspect, before arriving at the school ?

Nope - the school resource officer may know the teacher, but this shit happens too fast for cops arriving on the scene to have any sort of accurate description of the perp, OR know the armed teacher.

And that is why MOST law enforcement associations oppose.

And yet, in actual mass public shootings where you actually had civiians with guns, out and in many cases having shot the attacker, the police never make that mistake.....it is a fantasy that you guys conjure up to scare people...

Gabby Giffords shooting......2 men, with concealed carry pistols out in the open.....nothing happened.

Black Lives Matter shooter in Texas.....he starts shooting at cops during a march where civilians have AR-15 rifles slung over their shoulders and pistols on their hips, the civilians got out of the way and the cops dealt with the black lives matter shooter.

The Texas church shooter....the NRA Instructor who shot the attacker...saving 26 lives and likely more, was at the scene of the killer when he pulled over, and waited for the police to arrive, pointing his AR-15 civilian rifle at the attackers car...when the police arrived, they provided the NRA instructor cover with their car so he could retreat...


Nothing you posted is born out by actual real world events.....

And more...

Defensive Gun Use of the Day: LA CCW Stops Mass Shooting - The Truth About Guns

On the afternoon of 31 January, 2016, some ten ATVs were getting gas at the intersection of Claiborne and Esplanade Avenues in New Orleans, Louisiana. Richard Macklin pulled up in a white Volvo. Police said Macklin became upset; the ATV riders were blocking the gas pumps. He pulled out a firearm and opened fire, sending more than a dozen rounds into the crowd. Three were wounded.


One of the wounded was armed . . .

He drew his legally carried weapon and fired at Macklin, hitting him in the head and stopping the attack. During the initial investigation, officers concluded that the person who fired back did so in legitimate defense of self and others

And these mass shootings stopped by armed civilians.......the cops did not shoot them..


Deputies Osceola pastor shot church janitor in self-defense ( 0 dead)

6 Shot At New Life Church Gunman 2 Churchgoers Dead - 7NEWS Denver TheDenverChannel.com ( 2 dead, 3 wounded)

Remember This SC Concealed Carrier Stops Mass Shooting During Church Service. No Casualties. ( 0 dead)

**********

No guns: 41 dead

Sikh temple ( 6 dead, 4 wounded)

Charleston ( 9 dead)

Texas church shooting (26 dead)


Parishioners with guns: 2 dead

Osceola ( 0 dead )

New life ( 2 dead, 3 wounded)

South Carolina shotgun guy ( 0 dead)

 

[2aguy]

You keep attacking the NRA...the NRA supports the FIX NICS act....the democrats oppose it.

The NRA trains local, state and federal law enforcement...the democrats constantly attack law enforcement and prevent them from arresting violent gun criminals.

You keep attacking the NRA...the NRA supports armed security and armed staff in the schools, the democrats oppose it.

The NRA teaches fun safety to millions of children...the democrats fight teaching gun safety to kids.

The NRA supports keeping violent gun offenders in prison, the democrats let violent gun offenders out of jail and pass laws letting them out early.

The NRA doesn't support the PROMISE PROGRAM, of obama, which allowed the shooter to get the gun...the democrats created and support the Promise program...which allowed the shooter to get his gun...

Since those are the facts, the truth and the reality.....

Of the two groups...the democrats are the ones supporting violent murder, not the NRA...

The NRA used to be a legitimate organization that represented individual sportsmen and home defenders.

They are now a wholly owned subsidiary of MANUFACTURERS.

But if you want to send them your hard earned dollars - Be my guest!

You didn't address the facts......you just want to attack the NRA because they stand in your way...

 

[2aguy]

1. I think your numbers are off on arming teachers - From your link:

Forty-four percent of Americans say they’d support arming more teachers, while 50 percent oppose the move.

In addition, law enforcement is opposed:
https://www.usnews.com/news/politic...dvocacy-group-says-it-opposes-arming-teachers

Even in Florida:
Florida sheriff comes out against arming teachers: 'Teachers should teach'

I noticed that number oddity too. We couldn't have 104%. But the poll (Politico) at least has the arming teacher supporters in the majority.

As for cops opposing arming teachers, what else is new ? All my life, I've known that cops don't like citizens having guns. They don't like arming teachers, don't like CCW, etc. They would like the only ones to have guns be THEM. Nothing special or new there.

So what would be the problem with adding one or two highly trained law enforcement professionals (number dependent on size of school) ???

You distrust a cop with years of training but embrace an armed neophyte? Don't get it.

You can do both.......some schools can't afford to have a guard standing around....and the primary thing is to tell mass shooters that your school is no longer a democrat, gun free killing zone.......that is the biggest deterrent...

 

[Daryl Hunt]

I read the SB 260. It didn't have a chance in hell to pass. It was so restrictive that almost any semi auto rifle or handgun would have been caught by it. It's definition of "Assault Weapon" was definately restrictive. No one in their right mind would vote for it and they didn't. It didn't pass by a very wide margin. Almost no one voted for it. There really isn't a point here.

Precisely what I was trying to get at but you said it better. This is fear mongering barfed up by the NRA. There simply aren't enough pols in ANY state go pass something banning all semi-auto.

I used to be a NRA member about 30 years ago. I was very proud of it then. But it changed to a political group. It appears that it was taken over by what used to be called the John Birch Society that also took over the Tea Party around the same time. I also was one of the original Tea Party Members but left when it morphed. If you are wondering where all this originated from, it originated from the John Birch Society.

https://www.jbs.org/media/k2/attachments/Right to Bear Arms/Right_to_Bear_Arms_Even_Mulch.mp4

40 years ago, it would have been taboo to even mention being connected to a John Birch Society if you were a GOPer. Today, it's hard to tell the difference at times. And Yes, I was once a Republican before the John Birchers embedded themselves into the Republican party.

And don't get me started about he embedding of the Socialists into the Democratic Party about the same time lines.

 

[2aguy]

I read the SB 260. It didn't have a chance in hell to pass. It was so restrictive that almost any semi auto rifle or handgun would have been caught by it. It's definition of "Assault Weapon" was definately restrictive. No one in their right mind would vote for it and they didn't. It didn't pass by a very wide margin. Almost no one voted for it. There really isn't a point here.

Precisely what I was trying to get at but you said it better. This is fear mongering barfed up by the NRA. There simply aren't enough pols in ANY state go pass something banning all semi-auto.

I used to be a NRA member about 30 years ago. I was very proud of it then. But it changed to a political group. It appears that it was taken over by what used to be called the John Birch Society that also took over the Tea Party around the same time. I also was one of the original Tea Party Members but left when it morphed. If you are wondering where all this originated from, it originated from the John Birch Society.

https://www.jbs.org/media/k2/attachments/Right to Bear Arms/Right_to_Bear_Arms_Even_Mulch.mp4

40 years ago, it would have been taboo to even mention being connected to a John Birch Society if you were a GOPer. Today, it's hard to tell the difference at times. And Yes, I was once a Republican before the John Birchers embedded themselves into the Republican party.

And don't get me started about he embedding of the Socialists into the Democratic Party about the same time lines.

No.....you don't like that the NRA has stopped democrats from grabbing guns.....

When the NRA was doing nothing while the democrats passed local, state and federal anti gun laws...you guys didn't mind...when they actually started to fight those laws, you guys got annoyed....you don't dislike them for being political, you dislike them because they fight to keep the 2nd Amendment viable ...

You keep attacking the NRA...the NRA supports the FIX NICS act....the democrats oppose it.

The NRA trains local, state and federal law enforcement...the democrats constantly attack law enforcement and prevent them from arresting violent gun criminals.

You keep attacking the NRA...the NRA supports armed security and armed staff in the schools, the democrats oppose it.

The NRA teaches fun safety to millions of children...the democrats fight teaching gun safety to kids.

The NRA supports keeping violent gun offenders in prison, the democrats let violent gun offenders out of jail and pass laws letting them out early.

The NRA doesn't support the PROMISE PROGRAM, of obama, which allowed the shooter to get the gun...the democrats created and support the Promise program...which allowed the shooter to get his gun...

Since those are the facts, the truth and the reality.....

Of the two groups...the democrats are the ones supporting violent murder, not the NRA...

 

[DrLove]

And yet, in actual mass public shootings where you actually had civiians with guns, out and in many cases having shot the attacker, the police never make that mistake.....it is a fantasy that you guys conjure up to scare people...

Gabby Giffords shooting......2 men, with concealed carry pistols out in the open.....nothing happened.

Black Lives Matter shooter in Texas.....he starts shooting at cops during a march where civilians have AR-15 rifles slung over their shoulders and pistols on their hips, the civilians got out of the way and the cops dealt with the black lives matter shooter.

The Texas church shooter....the NRA Instructor who shot the attacker...saving 26 lives and likely more, was at the scene of the killer when he pulled over, and waited for the police to arrive, pointing his AR-15 civilian rifle at the attackers car...when the police arrived, they provided the NRA instructor cover with their car so he could retreat...


Nothing you posted is born out by actual real world events.....

And more...

Defensive Gun Use of the Day: LA CCW Stops Mass Shooting - The Truth About Guns

On the afternoon of 31 January, 2016, some ten ATVs were getting gas at the intersection of Claiborne and Esplanade Avenues in New Orleans, Louisiana. Richard Macklin pulled up in a white Volvo. Police said Macklin became upset; the ATV riders were blocking the gas pumps. He pulled out a firearm and opened fire, sending more than a dozen rounds into the crowd. Three were wounded.


One of the wounded was armed . . .

He drew his legally carried weapon and fired at Macklin, hitting him in the head and stopping the attack. During the initial investigation, officers concluded that the person who fired back did so in legitimate defense of self and others

And these mass shootings stopped by armed civilians.......the cops did not shoot them..


Deputies Osceola pastor shot church janitor in self-defense ( 0 dead)

6 Shot At New Life Church Gunman 2 Churchgoers Dead - 7NEWS Denver TheDenverChannel.com ( 2 dead, 3 wounded)

Remember This SC Concealed Carrier Stops Mass Shooting During Church Service. No Casualties. ( 0 dead)

**********

No guns: 41 dead

Sikh temple ( 6 dead, 4 wounded)

Charleston ( 9 dead)

Texas church shooting (26 dead)


Parishioners with guns: 2 dead

Osceola ( 0 dead )

New life ( 2 dead, 3 wounded)

South Carolina shotgun guy ( 0 dead)

Wow, did you strain anything cutting and pasting all this propaganda?

With regard to at least one of the concealed carriers at Giffords shooting there is THIS regarding the good guy with the gun who nearly shot the wrong dude who had actually just wrestled the gun away from Mr Loughner:

The man with the gun wasn't the shooter. He had wrested the gun away from the shooter. "Had you shot that guy, it would have been a big, fat mess," the interviewer pointed out.

Zamudio agreed:

"I was very lucky. Honestly, it was a matter of seconds. Two, maybe three seconds between when I came through the doorway and when I was laying on top of [the real shooter, holding him down. So, I mean, in that short amount of time I made a lot of really big decisions really fast. … I was really lucky."​

Armed Giffords hero nearly shot wrong man

 

[Brain357]

The people who claimed to know about guns said semi auto rifles with high capacity magazines were no more dangerous than other rifles. Now every time we have a new worst mass shooting it is done with a...Semi auto rifle with high capacity magazines. They have shown how dangerous they are, so stop the bull ray.

I see you avoided answering the question. Good call on your part.

The school shooter didn't use any high capacity magazines. Aren't you happy about that?

The one in Vegas, Orlando, and the church in TX sure did. And you think the one in the school shooting didn't why?

Why? Because they don't make that much of a difference, that's why.

If you knew anything about guns, you'd realize that changing a magazine only takes about two seconds--one second or less if you practice at it:

If you truly believe that then you should have no problem with banning high capacity magazines. Your own argument says you don't need them. Given how you guys fight for them you clearly don't believe your own argument.

Sometimes they aren't so easy to reload.

When you are in a defensive situation, most of your shots will miss the target. This is normal. If you are attacked by several people, you will need all the rounds you can get. Most of us don't carry an extra magazine on the street.

Plus high capacity magazines are better for target practice. When you are in a shooting stance and concentrating on your aim, the last thing you need is to keep stopping every four rounds to reload.

In other words, limited magazine size won't stop one mass shooting, but it will inconvenience most everybody else. And if limited magazines were in place the last five years, and Cruz still killed as many as he did, would you be satisfied that we had magazine restrictions, or would you want to advance to your next idea? Because that's exactly what would happen.

Are you involved in criminal activity? If not you won't be attacked by several people, grow up.

Smaller magazines will allow you to practice your reload more often.

Again, the worst mass shootings have been done with high capacity magazines for a reason. They allow the shooter to fire many more rounds without having to reload. The are made for mass killing.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

1. I think your numbers are off on arming teachers - From your link:

Forty-four percent of Americans say they’d support arming more teachers, while 50 percent oppose the move.

In addition, law enforcement is opposed:
https://www.usnews.com/news/politic...dvocacy-group-says-it-opposes-arming-teachers

Even in Florida:
Florida sheriff comes out against arming teachers: 'Teachers should teach'

I noticed that number oddity too. We couldn't have 104%. But the poll (Politico) at least has the arming teacher supporters in the majority.

As for cops opposing arming teachers, what else is new ? All my life, I've known that cops don't like citizens having guns. They don't like arming teachers, don't like CCW, etc. They would like the only ones to have guns be THEM. Nothing special or new there.

So what would be the problem with adding one or two highly trained law enforcement professionals (number dependent on size of school) ???

You distrust a cop with years of training but embrace an armed neophyte? Don't get it.

You can do both.......some schools can't afford to have a guard standing around....and the primary thing is to tell mass shooters that your school is no longer a democrat, gun free killing zone.......that is the biggest deterrent...

In the last 2 weeks, we have had 2 were false alarms. But one was real. All three were set off by the community being aware around the schools alerting law enforcement. All 3 times, the schools went into lockdowns. The one that was real, the school went into a lockdown for 3 hours, the person was aprehended before he entered the school. You see, we have a nice little law about carrying fire arms within 1000 feet of a school. And it's difficult to hide an AR. Even if you wear a Duster. Wearing the Duster will get someone to call it in and the cops will investigate. Even if if you drove onto the school and exited your vehicle, someone will see you exit your vehicle. The School will immediately go into lockdown and you won't be able to enter. The doors will all be locked many layers deep. You may be able to break in but by then the cops will be there in force. The Teachers are too busy getting the students to safe areas rather than grabbing their shooting irons and confronting you. That system works and works well. If there isn't any students to shoot, what good is it to even bother. And what good is it to arm teachers? It's already been proven that accidents will happen if you arm teachers.

Educate the Community and train the Teachers, Students and Law Enforcement. That's the answer.

 

[Brain357]

Well, if the local school board and local law enforcement approves then fine with me assuming they are highly skilled and pass a number of tactical drills.

But IMHO they'd be nuts to do it. Scenario: There's a code red and cops show up - There's a teacher with a gun who they don't know from Adam - In that case said teacher should probably prepare to die.

You don't think the cops would have gotten clear description of the suspect, before arriving at the school ?

Nope - the school resource officer may know the teacher, but this shit happens too fast for cops arriving on the scene to have any sort of accurate description of the perp, OR know the armed teacher.

And that is why MOST law enforcement associations oppose.

And yet, in actual mass public shootings where you actually had civiians with guns, out and in many cases having shot the attacker, the police never make that mistake.....it is a fantasy that you guys conjure up to scare people...

Gabby Giffords shooting......2 men, with concealed carry pistols out in the open.....nothing happened.

Black Lives Matter shooter in Texas.....he starts shooting at cops during a march where civilians have AR-15 rifles slung over their shoulders and pistols on their hips, the civilians got out of the way and the cops dealt with the black lives matter shooter.

The Texas church shooter....the NRA Instructor who shot the attacker...saving 26 lives and likely more, was at the scene of the killer when he pulled over, and waited for the police to arrive, pointing his AR-15 civilian rifle at the attackers car...when the police arrived, they provided the NRA instructor cover with their car so he could retreat...


Nothing you posted is born out by actual real world events.....

And more...

Defensive Gun Use of the Day: LA CCW Stops Mass Shooting - The Truth About Guns

On the afternoon of 31 January, 2016, some ten ATVs were getting gas at the intersection of Claiborne and Esplanade Avenues in New Orleans, Louisiana. Richard Macklin pulled up in a white Volvo. Police said Macklin became upset; the ATV riders were blocking the gas pumps. He pulled out a firearm and opened fire, sending more than a dozen rounds into the crowd. Three were wounded.


One of the wounded was armed . . .

He drew his legally carried weapon and fired at Macklin, hitting him in the head and stopping the attack. During the initial investigation, officers concluded that the person who fired back did so in legitimate defense of self and others

And these mass shootings stopped by armed civilians.......the cops did not shoot them..


Deputies Osceola pastor shot church janitor in self-defense ( 0 dead)

6 Shot At New Life Church Gunman 2 Churchgoers Dead - 7NEWS Denver TheDenverChannel.com ( 2 dead, 3 wounded)

Remember This SC Concealed Carrier Stops Mass Shooting During Church Service. No Casualties. ( 0 dead)

**********

No guns: 41 dead

Sikh temple ( 6 dead, 4 wounded)

Charleston ( 9 dead)

Texas church shooting (26 dead)


Parishioners with guns: 2 dead

Osceola ( 0 dead )

New life ( 2 dead, 3 wounded)

South Carolina shotgun guy ( 0 dead)

Countries with strong gun control don't have a mass shooting problem.

 

[Brain357]

And yet, in actual mass public shootings where you actually had civiians with guns, out and in many cases having shot the attacker, the police never make that mistake.....it is a fantasy that you guys conjure up to scare people...

Gabby Giffords shooting......2 men, with concealed carry pistols out in the open.....nothing happened.

Black Lives Matter shooter in Texas.....he starts shooting at cops during a march where civilians have AR-15 rifles slung over their shoulders and pistols on their hips, the civilians got out of the way and the cops dealt with the black lives matter shooter.

The Texas church shooter....the NRA Instructor who shot the attacker...saving 26 lives and likely more, was at the scene of the killer when he pulled over, and waited for the police to arrive, pointing his AR-15 civilian rifle at the attackers car...when the police arrived, they provided the NRA instructor cover with their car so he could retreat...


Nothing you posted is born out by actual real world events.....

And more...

Defensive Gun Use of the Day: LA CCW Stops Mass Shooting - The Truth About Guns

On the afternoon of 31 January, 2016, some ten ATVs were getting gas at the intersection of Claiborne and Esplanade Avenues in New Orleans, Louisiana. Richard Macklin pulled up in a white Volvo. Police said Macklin became upset; the ATV riders were blocking the gas pumps. He pulled out a firearm and opened fire, sending more than a dozen rounds into the crowd. Three were wounded.


One of the wounded was armed . . .

He drew his legally carried weapon and fired at Macklin, hitting him in the head and stopping the attack. During the initial investigation, officers concluded that the person who fired back did so in legitimate defense of self and others

And these mass shootings stopped by armed civilians.......the cops did not shoot them..


Deputies Osceola pastor shot church janitor in self-defense ( 0 dead)

6 Shot At New Life Church Gunman 2 Churchgoers Dead - 7NEWS Denver TheDenverChannel.com ( 2 dead, 3 wounded)

Remember This SC Concealed Carrier Stops Mass Shooting During Church Service. No Casualties. ( 0 dead)

**********

No guns: 41 dead

Sikh temple ( 6 dead, 4 wounded)

Charleston ( 9 dead)

Texas church shooting (26 dead)


Parishioners with guns: 2 dead

Osceola ( 0 dead )

New life ( 2 dead, 3 wounded)

South Carolina shotgun guy ( 0 dead)

Wow, did you strain anything cutting and pasting all this propaganda?

With regard to at least one of the concealed carriers at Giffords shooting there is THIS regarding the good guy with the gun who nearly shot the wrong dude who had actually just wrestled the gun away from Mr Loughner:

The man with the gun wasn't the shooter. He had wrested the gun away from the shooter. "Had you shot that guy, it would have been a big, fat mess," the interviewer pointed out.

Zamudio agreed:

"I was very lucky. Honestly, it was a matter of seconds. Two, maybe three seconds between when I came through the doorway and when I was laying on top of [the real shooter, holding him down. So, I mean, in that short amount of time I made a lot of really big decisions really fast. … I was really lucky."​

Armed Giffords hero nearly shot wrong man

It is a great example of why we need a ban on high capacity magazines:
Loughner proceeded to fire apparently randomly at other members of the crowd.[1][21] He reportedly used a 9×19mm Glock 19 semi-automatic pistol with a 33-round magazine.[22][23] A nearby store employee said he heard "15 to 20 gunshots".[24] Loughner stopped to reload, but dropped the loaded magazine from his pocket to the sidewalk, from where bystander Patricia Maisch grabbed it.[25] Another bystander clubbed the back of the assailant's head with a folding chair, injuring his elbow in the process, representing the fourteenth injury.

Fewer would have been shot if he needed to reload sooner. Look at that Ray, he dropped the magazine trying to reload.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

I read the SB 260. It didn't have a chance in hell to pass. It was so restrictive that almost any semi auto rifle or handgun would have been caught by it. It's definition of "Assault Weapon" was definately restrictive. No one in their right mind would vote for it and they didn't. It didn't pass by a very wide margin. Almost no one voted for it. There really isn't a point here.

Precisely what I was trying to get at but you said it better. This is fear mongering barfed up by the NRA. There simply aren't enough pols in ANY state go pass something banning all semi-auto.

I used to be a NRA member about 30 years ago. I was very proud of it then. But it changed to a political group. It appears that it was taken over by what used to be called the John Birch Society that also took over the Tea Party around the same time. I also was one of the original Tea Party Members but left when it morphed. If you are wondering where all this originated from, it originated from the John Birch Society.

https://www.jbs.org/media/k2/attachments/Right to Bear Arms/Right_to_Bear_Arms_Even_Mulch.mp4

40 years ago, it would have been taboo to even mention being connected to a John Birch Society if you were a GOPer. Today, it's hard to tell the difference at times. And Yes, I was once a Republican before the John Birchers embedded themselves into the Republican party.

And don't get me started about he embedding of the Socialists into the Democratic Party about the same time lines.

No.....you don't like that the NRA has stopped democrats from grabbing guns.....

When the NRA was doing nothing while the democrats passed local, state and federal anti gun laws...you guys didn't mind...when they actually started to fight those laws, you guys got annoyed....you don't dislike them for being political, you dislike them because they fight to keep the 2nd Amendment viable ...

You keep attacking the NRA...the NRA supports the FIX NICS act....the democrats oppose it.

The NRA trains local, state and federal law enforcement...the democrats constantly attack law enforcement and prevent them from arresting violent gun criminals.

You keep attacking the NRA...the NRA supports armed security and armed staff in the schools, the democrats oppose it.

The NRA teaches fun safety to millions of children...the democrats fight teaching gun safety to kids.

The NRA supports keeping violent gun offenders in prison, the democrats let violent gun offenders out of jail and pass laws letting them out early.

The NRA doesn't support the PROMISE PROGRAM, of obama, which allowed the shooter to get the gun...the democrats created and support the Promise program...which allowed the shooter to get his gun...

Since those are the facts, the truth and the reality.....

Of the two groups...the democrats are the ones supporting violent murder, not the NRA...

And you just want the Republicans to win. Nothing more. You are using the NRA as a reason to that end. I see the NRA as a Political Wing of the John Birch Society these days. In fact, the message the NRA is spewing these days originated from the John Birch Society. Hope you are proud of yourself. You have finally reach rock bottom.

 

[2aguy]

Well, if the local school board and local law enforcement approves then fine with me assuming they are highly skilled and pass a number of tactical drills.

But IMHO they'd be nuts to do it. Scenario: There's a code red and cops show up - There's a teacher with a gun who they don't know from Adam - In that case said teacher should probably prepare to die.

You don't think the cops would have gotten clear description of the suspect, before arriving at the school ?

Nope - the school resource officer may know the teacher, but this shit happens too fast for cops arriving on the scene to have any sort of accurate description of the perp, OR know the armed teacher.

And that is why MOST law enforcement associations oppose.

And yet, in actual mass public shootings where you actually had civiians with guns, out and in many cases having shot the attacker, the police never make that mistake.....it is a fantasy that you guys conjure up to scare people...

Gabby Giffords shooting......2 men, with concealed carry pistols out in the open.....nothing happened.

Black Lives Matter shooter in Texas.....he starts shooting at cops during a march where civilians have AR-15 rifles slung over their shoulders and pistols on their hips, the civilians got out of the way and the cops dealt with the black lives matter shooter.

The Texas church shooter....the NRA Instructor who shot the attacker...saving 26 lives and likely more, was at the scene of the killer when he pulled over, and waited for the police to arrive, pointing his AR-15 civilian rifle at the attackers car...when the police arrived, they provided the NRA instructor cover with their car so he could retreat...


Nothing you posted is born out by actual real world events.....

And more...

Defensive Gun Use of the Day: LA CCW Stops Mass Shooting - The Truth About Guns

On the afternoon of 31 January, 2016, some ten ATVs were getting gas at the intersection of Claiborne and Esplanade Avenues in New Orleans, Louisiana. Richard Macklin pulled up in a white Volvo. Police said Macklin became upset; the ATV riders were blocking the gas pumps. He pulled out a firearm and opened fire, sending more than a dozen rounds into the crowd. Three were wounded.


One of the wounded was armed . . .

He drew his legally carried weapon and fired at Macklin, hitting him in the head and stopping the attack. During the initial investigation, officers concluded that the person who fired back did so in legitimate defense of self and others

And these mass shootings stopped by armed civilians.......the cops did not shoot them..


Deputies Osceola pastor shot church janitor in self-defense ( 0 dead)

6 Shot At New Life Church Gunman 2 Churchgoers Dead - 7NEWS Denver TheDenverChannel.com ( 2 dead, 3 wounded)

Remember This SC Concealed Carrier Stops Mass Shooting During Church Service. No Casualties. ( 0 dead)

**********

No guns: 41 dead

Sikh temple ( 6 dead, 4 wounded)

Charleston ( 9 dead)

Texas church shooting (26 dead)


Parishioners with guns: 2 dead

Osceola ( 0 dead )

New life ( 2 dead, 3 wounded)

South Carolina shotgun guy ( 0 dead)

Countries with strong gun control don't have a mass shooting problem.

And that is a lie.....Britain, France, Norway, Belgium .....they have mass shootings, they have fewer, but that is due to culture and values not gun control...you know this, you lie about knowing it...you are a troll.

 

[DrLove]

Are you involved in criminal activity? If not you won't be attacked by several people, grow up.

Smaller magazines will allow you to practice your reload more often.

Again, the worst mass shootings have been done with high capacity magazines for a reason. They allow the shooter to fire many more rounds without having to reload. The are made for mass killing.

Agree - The AR is a weapon of war. Am I for banning them? Nope - too many out there. But they are indeed the weapon of choice for those hellbent on carnage and their ability to do so is well documented by ER physicians:

What I Saw Treating the Victims From Parkland Should Change the Debate on Guns

Tighten up the rules, databases, BG checks AND the ability of cops to take them away from kooks like Nikolas Cruz who had over 50 reports to law enforcement yet, in the Gunshine State - they were powerless.

Newtown - the same heart wrenching story:

 

[2aguy]

And yet, in actual mass public shootings where you actually had civiians with guns, out and in many cases having shot the attacker, the police never make that mistake.....it is a fantasy that you guys conjure up to scare people...

Gabby Giffords shooting......2 men, with concealed carry pistols out in the open.....nothing happened.

Black Lives Matter shooter in Texas.....he starts shooting at cops during a march where civilians have AR-15 rifles slung over their shoulders and pistols on their hips, the civilians got out of the way and the cops dealt with the black lives matter shooter.

The Texas church shooter....the NRA Instructor who shot the attacker...saving 26 lives and likely more, was at the scene of the killer when he pulled over, and waited for the police to arrive, pointing his AR-15 civilian rifle at the attackers car...when the police arrived, they provided the NRA instructor cover with their car so he could retreat...


Nothing you posted is born out by actual real world events.....

And more...

Defensive Gun Use of the Day: LA CCW Stops Mass Shooting - The Truth About Guns

On the afternoon of 31 January, 2016, some ten ATVs were getting gas at the intersection of Claiborne and Esplanade Avenues in New Orleans, Louisiana. Richard Macklin pulled up in a white Volvo. Police said Macklin became upset; the ATV riders were blocking the gas pumps. He pulled out a firearm and opened fire, sending more than a dozen rounds into the crowd. Three were wounded.


One of the wounded was armed . . .

He drew his legally carried weapon and fired at Macklin, hitting him in the head and stopping the attack. During the initial investigation, officers concluded that the person who fired back did so in legitimate defense of self and others

And these mass shootings stopped by armed civilians.......the cops did not shoot them..


Deputies Osceola pastor shot church janitor in self-defense ( 0 dead)

6 Shot At New Life Church Gunman 2 Churchgoers Dead - 7NEWS Denver TheDenverChannel.com ( 2 dead, 3 wounded)

Remember This SC Concealed Carrier Stops Mass Shooting During Church Service. No Casualties. ( 0 dead)

**********

No guns: 41 dead

Sikh temple ( 6 dead, 4 wounded)

Charleston ( 9 dead)

Texas church shooting (26 dead)


Parishioners with guns: 2 dead

Osceola ( 0 dead )

New life ( 2 dead, 3 wounded)

South Carolina shotgun guy ( 0 dead)

Wow, did you strain anything cutting and pasting all this propaganda?

With regard to at least one of the concealed carriers at Giffords shooting there is THIS regarding the good guy with the gun who nearly shot the wrong dude who had actually just wrestled the gun away from Mr Loughner:

The man with the gun wasn't the shooter. He had wrested the gun away from the shooter. "Had you shot that guy, it would have been a big, fat mess," the interviewer pointed out.

Zamudio agreed:

"I was very lucky. Honestly, it was a matter of seconds. Two, maybe three seconds between when I came through the doorway and when I was laying on top of [the real shooter, holding him down. So, I mean, in that short amount of time I made a lot of really big decisions really fast. … I was really lucky."​

Armed Giffords hero nearly shot wrong man

It is a great example of why we need a ban on high capacity magazines:
Loughner proceeded to fire apparently randomly at other members of the crowd.[1][21] He reportedly used a 9×19mm Glock 19 semi-automatic pistol with a 33-round magazine.[22][23] A nearby store employee said he heard "15 to 20 gunshots".[24] Loughner stopped to reload, but dropped the loaded magazine from his pocket to the sidewalk, from where bystander Patricia Maisch grabbed it.[25] Another bystander clubbed the back of the assailant's head with a folding chair, injuring his elbow in the process, representing the fourteenth injury.

Fewer would have been shot if he needed to reload sooner. Look at that Ray, he dropped the magazine trying to reload.

You are such a moron....you know that he chose that isn't how it happened.....he shot a gun in the head, and walked up and past that guy...the guy who was shot was merely wounded instead of having his brains blown out, got up behind the guy and tackled him...the old lady laid on the ground as the killer approached hoping he wouldn't shoot her....and he was tackled within arms reach of her, so she reached out and grabbed the dropped magazine...

Dumb luck....but there was a concealed carry permit holder there ready to shoot the guy....

YOu know this story, and you pretend you don't...you are a troll...

The Tucson Atrocity: Joe Zamudio’s StoryAmerican Handgunner | American Handgunner

And from this...he wasn't tackled during a magazine change, he shot a guy, Bill Badger, and thought he killed him...he let badger get behind him and that is when he was tackled, then the old lady got the magazine after she laid on the ground in front of loughner trying to be a small target.....

Brain is wrong....

from the article...

And another point for you brain and for you bfgrn...the only reason they were able to wrestle him....just plain, stupid luck........otherwise, he would have reloaded and kept shooting...he missed this guy....

Joe adds, “Bill Badger was bleeding profusely from his head. He told me as Loughner was shooting everyone, (Loughner approached him and) pointed the gun at Bill’s head. Bill reflexively turned his head away, and when Loughner fired, the bullet took skin off down to the skull but did no real damage. Bill went down. When the gun stopped firing, Bill raised back up and Loughner was right in front of him. That was when the wrestling started.

Not rushing the guy during a magazine change brain, and Bfgrn...he thought the guy was dead....after he shot him...and let Bill Badger get behind him.......you are wrong again brain....

And what did the old lady do....

Woman Stopped Tucson Shooter From Reloading



She considered trying to run away, she said, but thought that would make her more of a target, so she laid down on the ground. But then something unexpected happened.

"Then he was next to me on the ground," she said. "The gentleman knocked him down.

"I kneeled over him. He was pulling a magazine [to reload] and I grabbed the magazine and secured that. I think the men got the gun, and I was able to get the magazine," she said.





The story as I put it in my post....



no one rushed the guy as he was changing magazines....

The shooter shot one guy in the head...but instead of killing him he grazed him and he fell to the ground. Thinking he had killed the guy, named Bill.....the shooter advanced up to where the guy had fallen.....the guy said he was able to then rise up and grab the shooter.....it was an instance of pure, dumb luck...had the shooter hit the guy in the head and killed him...no one would have stopped him...had he just stayed in place or moved in another direction, no one would have stopped him by charging him....

And the woman, who allegedly grabbed the magazine out of his hand...another myth.....

The woman saw the shooter advancing on her....she didn't think she could run away so she decided to just lay down and hoped he would just pass her by.....as she was laying on the ground, the guy who was shot in the head tackled the shooter...and they fell right in front of the woman.....so close she just had to extend her arm and grab his magazine........

another instance of dumb luck....

And...oh yeah....the magazine apparently malfunctioned...which is why he was changing it....he didn't run out of ammo...had the magazine not failed he would have kept shooting too....

the 3rd instance of dumb luck at the shooting....

And by the way....there were two concealed carry permit holders ready to shoot the guy....but by then he had been tackled and dealt with...no one mentions that, do they.....?

Here is the story from the actual participants....the video from ABC news has an interview with the guy who was shot in the head......

The Tucson Atrocity: Joe Zamudio’s StoryAmerican Handgunner | American Handgunner


from the article...


Joe adds, “Bill Badger was bleeding profusely from his head. He told me as Loughner was shooting everyone, (Loughner approached him and) pointed the gun at Bill’s head. Bill reflexively turned his head away, and when Loughner fired, the bullet took skin off down to the skull but did no real damage. Bill went down. When the gun stopped firing, Bill raised back up and Loughner was right in front of him. That was when the wrestling started.

----Aftermath/Afterthoughts
Joe was prepared to stop the killer with gunfire if he had to. He says today, “I was just truly blessed I didn’t have to pull my firearm. I didn’t have to go to that place




And what did the old lady do....

in this link there is a pop up video of the interview with the guy named Bill, who was shot in the head...but just grazed.....

Bill Badger, the guy who initially tackled him states the shooter was right next to him as he got up....he got up off of the ground and the shooter had walked right up close to him, allowing him to grab him....

Woman Stopped Tucson Shooter From Reloading



She considered trying to run away, she said, but thought that would make her more of a target, so she laid down on the ground. But then something unexpected happened.

"Then he was next to me on the ground," she said. "The gentleman knocked him down.

"I kneeled over him. He was pulling a magazine [to reload] and I grabbed the magazine and secured that. I think the men got the gun, and I was able to get the magazine," she said.



The Gifford's shooting was not stopped by heroic people rushing the shooter as he changed magzines because he ran out of bullets......it was stopped by 3 incidents of dumb luck that came together that allowed heroic people to take the guy down.....otherwise the concealed carrier would have shot him.....

 

[Brain357]

Well, if the local school board and local law enforcement approves then fine with me assuming they are highly skilled and pass a number of tactical drills.

But IMHO they'd be nuts to do it. Scenario: There's a code red and cops show up - There's a teacher with a gun who they don't know from Adam - In that case said teacher should probably prepare to die.

You don't think the cops would have gotten clear description of the suspect, before arriving at the school ?

Nope - the school resource officer may know the teacher, but this shit happens too fast for cops arriving on the scene to have any sort of accurate description of the perp, OR know the armed teacher.

And that is why MOST law enforcement associations oppose.

And yet, in actual mass public shootings where you actually had civiians with guns, out and in many cases having shot the attacker, the police never make that mistake.....it is a fantasy that you guys conjure up to scare people...

Gabby Giffords shooting......2 men, with concealed carry pistols out in the open.....nothing happened.

Black Lives Matter shooter in Texas.....he starts shooting at cops during a march where civilians have AR-15 rifles slung over their shoulders and pistols on their hips, the civilians got out of the way and the cops dealt with the black lives matter shooter.

The Texas church shooter....the NRA Instructor who shot the attacker...saving 26 lives and likely more, was at the scene of the killer when he pulled over, and waited for the police to arrive, pointing his AR-15 civilian rifle at the attackers car...when the police arrived, they provided the NRA instructor cover with their car so he could retreat...


Nothing you posted is born out by actual real world events.....

And more...

Defensive Gun Use of the Day: LA CCW Stops Mass Shooting - The Truth About Guns

On the afternoon of 31 January, 2016, some ten ATVs were getting gas at the intersection of Claiborne and Esplanade Avenues in New Orleans, Louisiana. Richard Macklin pulled up in a white Volvo. Police said Macklin became upset; the ATV riders were blocking the gas pumps. He pulled out a firearm and opened fire, sending more than a dozen rounds into the crowd. Three were wounded.


One of the wounded was armed . . .

He drew his legally carried weapon and fired at Macklin, hitting him in the head and stopping the attack. During the initial investigation, officers concluded that the person who fired back did so in legitimate defense of self and others

And these mass shootings stopped by armed civilians.......the cops did not shoot them..


Deputies Osceola pastor shot church janitor in self-defense ( 0 dead)

6 Shot At New Life Church Gunman 2 Churchgoers Dead - 7NEWS Denver TheDenverChannel.com ( 2 dead, 3 wounded)

Remember This SC Concealed Carrier Stops Mass Shooting During Church Service. No Casualties. ( 0 dead)

**********

No guns: 41 dead

Sikh temple ( 6 dead, 4 wounded)

Charleston ( 9 dead)

Texas church shooting (26 dead)


Parishioners with guns: 2 dead

Osceola ( 0 dead )

New life ( 2 dead, 3 wounded)

South Carolina shotgun guy ( 0 dead)

Countries with strong gun control don't have a mass shooting problem.

And that is a lie.....Britain, France, Norway, Belgium .....they have mass shootings, they have fewer, but that is due to culture and values not gun control...you know this, you lie about knowing it...you are a troll.

Sure they have them, very rarely. Having one every few years isn't a problem. We have them regularly. Only the US with the most guns and the weakest laws has them regularly. And they are getting worse.