Group Launches Campaign to Raise Awareness About Soaring National Debt

[veritas]

If you have no reasonable expectation of winning a war, it is elective. And we never did have any expectations of winning in Afghanistan. And we don't now, officially. AQ is a criminal organization. They are no longer in Afghanistan for all practical analyses.

 

[DiveCon]

Yes, elective.

ah, you must think ALL wars are elective, then

To be fair, it was one elective war. Afghanistan was justified, Our Fearless Leaders just screwed the pooch.

actually, to be fair, Iraq was just a continuation of Desert Storm, since that was only a ceasefire
so the war was already started

 

[veritas]

Desert Storm was elective as well. Kuwait is not part of the US.

 

[goldcatt]

ah, you must think ALL wars are elective, then

To be fair, it was one elective war. Afghanistan was justified, Our Fearless Leaders just screwed the pooch.

actually, to be fair, Iraq was just a continuation of Desert Storm, since that was only a ceasefire
so the war was already started

Procedural not substantive, and I know you're smart enough to know it.

 

[goldcatt]

Desert Storm was elective as well. Kuwait is not part of the US.

I don't agree with that, veritas. We had, unfortunately, a vital national interest at stake as well as a debt of honor to an ally and our agreements. We were also not the aggressor, which makes a huge difference.
But I think we might be derailing the htread here.

 

[DiveCon]

To be fair, it was one elective war. Afghanistan was justified, Our Fearless Leaders just screwed the pooch.

actually, to be fair, Iraq was just a continuation of Desert Storm, since that was only a ceasefire
so the war was already started

Procedural not substantive, and I know you're smart enough to know it.

yes, procedural, but still the facts
same thing if the situation in Korea were to turn hot
it would be a continuation of the war that was started back in the 50's

 

[goldcatt]

actually, to be fair, Iraq was just a continuation of Desert Storm, since that was only a ceasefire
so the war was already started

Procedural not substantive, and I know you're smart enough to know it.

yes, procedural, but still the facts
same thing if the situation in Korea were to turn hot
it would be a continuation of the war that was started back in the 50's

So a 50+ year old cease fire means...what? We wouldn't have to go to the trouble of making a formal declaration of police action all over again? Substantively, what kind of rationale for war is that? It's not even an easy button.

 

[DiveCon]

Procedural not substantive, and I know you're smart enough to know it.

yes, procedural, but still the facts
same thing if the situation in Korea were to turn hot
it would be a continuation of the war that was started back in the 50's

So a 50+ year old cease fire means...what? We wouldn't have to go to the trouble of making a formal declaration of police action all over again? Substantively, what kind of rationale for war is that? It's not even an easy button.

um, if it goes hot, you dont really have time for all that formality

 

[veritas]

Desert Storm was elective as well. Kuwait is not part of the US.

I don't agree with that, veritas. We had, unfortunately, a vital national interest at stake as well as a debt of honor to an ally and our agreements. We were also not the aggressor, which makes a huge difference.
But I think we might be derailing the htread here.

The only reason we had interests was in favor of corporatists after Kuwait's natural resources.


Truth be told, Iraq may have been justified. It's a complicated subject but it amounts to us enforcing the title to the boundaries set forth when Iraq was assembled. Not our business really.

 

[KittenKoder]

Madison Ave is "less fortunate" now? You're cracked.

You have no idea how to follow the money, thanks for proving that. They spend money which they have already paid taxes, that's their right, same as you. They don't write off all that you seem to think they do.

Why wouldn't they write off everything they can? "Donations" to non-profits are tax deductible, even if those non-profits are furthering their causes.

But the money for donations still goes to help out "unfortunates" ... $1,000 going to a charity is the same as the government spending $1,000 of their tax dollars on a social program. The only difference is one is their choice, the other isn't.

 

[goldcatt]

yes, procedural, but still the facts
same thing if the situation in Korea were to turn hot
it would be a continuation of the war that was started back in the 50's

So a 50+ year old cease fire means...what? We wouldn't have to go to the trouble of making a formal declaration of police action all over again? Substantively, what kind of rationale for war is that? It's not even an easy button.

um, if it goes hot, you dont really have time for all that formality

If it goes hot, I'm sure it will be for reasons other than the fact that there was a cease fire rather than a peace treaty.
But you're right, that declaration of Police Action takes a whole lotta time and effort.

 

[goldcatt]

Desert Storm was elective as well. Kuwait is not part of the US.

I don't agree with that, veritas. We had, unfortunately, a vital national interest at stake as well as a debt of honor to an ally and our agreements. We were also not the aggressor, which makes a huge difference.
But I think we might be derailing the htread here.

The only reason we had interests was in favor of corporatists after Kuwait's natural resources.


Truth be told, Iraq may have been justified. It's a complicated subject but it amounts to us enforcing the title to the boundaries set forth when Iraq was assembled. Not our business really.

Again I disagree. Iraq's claim to Kuwait was akin to Denmark claiming the US and Canada on the strength of the Viking settlements. I'll agree the way borders were drawn throughout the ME was, for lack of a better term, a chop job by people who largely didn't know or care to know what they were messing with. But that doesn't give Iraq a colorable claim.

 

[DiveCon]

I don't agree with that, veritas. We had, unfortunately, a vital national interest at stake as well as a debt of honor to an ally and our agreements. We were also not the aggressor, which makes a huge difference.
But I think we might be derailing the htread here.

The only reason we had interests was in favor of corporatists after Kuwait's natural resources.


Truth be told, Iraq may have been justified. It's a complicated subject but it amounts to us enforcing the title to the boundaries set forth when Iraq was assembled. Not our business really.

Again I disagree. Iraq's claim to Kuwait was akin to Denmark claiming the US and Canada on the strength of the Viking settlements. I'll agree the way borders were drawn throughout the ME was, for lack of a better term, a chop job by people who largely didn't know or care to know what they were messing with. But that doesn't give Iraq a colorable claim.

and on THAT i can totally agree

 

[goldcatt]

The only reason we had interests was in favor of corporatists after Kuwait's natural resources.


Truth be told, Iraq may have been justified. It's a complicated subject but it amounts to us enforcing the title to the boundaries set forth when Iraq was assembled. Not our business really.

Again I disagree. Iraq's claim to Kuwait was akin to Denmark claiming the US and Canada on the strength of the Viking settlements. I'll agree the way borders were drawn throughout the ME was, for lack of a better term, a chop job by people who largely didn't know or care to know what they were messing with. But that doesn't give Iraq a colorable claim.

and on THAT i can totally agree

Anyway, with the national debt as obscene as it is, I don't know that we can afford any more foreign adventures anytime soon. (Nudge back to topic)

 

[DiveCon]

Again I disagree. Iraq's claim to Kuwait was akin to Denmark claiming the US and Canada on the strength of the Viking settlements. I'll agree the way borders were drawn throughout the ME was, for lack of a better term, a chop job by people who largely didn't know or care to know what they were messing with. But that doesn't give Iraq a colorable claim.

and on THAT i can totally agree

Anyway, with the national debt as obscene as it is, I don't know that we can afford any more foreign adventures anytime soon. (Nudge back to topic)

yeah, and i have to wonder why this group just saw that it was a problem
where have they been for the last 8 years, hell, the last 50 years

 

[goldcatt]

and on THAT i can totally agree

Anyway, with the national debt as obscene as it is, I don't know that we can afford any more foreign adventures anytime soon. (Nudge back to topic)

yeah, and i have to wonder why this group just saw that it was a problem
where have they been for the last 8 years, hell, the last 50 years

IMO, the numbers get so big they become meaningless to too many people.

 

[007]

and on THAT i can totally agree

Anyway, with the national debt as obscene as it is, I don't know that we can afford any more foreign adventures anytime soon. (Nudge back to topic)

yeah, and i have to wonder why this group just saw that it was a problem
where have they been for the last 8 years, hell, the last 50 years

Where have they been? Maybe it's just time someone took the bull by the horns. Ever heard that saying? Maybe someone is finally standing up and saying ENOUGH IS ENOUGH! True obama inherited a massive debt, but he has QUADRUPLED it, and is doing his DAMN BEST to MAKE IT EVEN BIGGER! What part about that escapes you people acting as though this GARGANTUAN, MONSTROUS, CRIPPLING and STILL GROWING DEBT is something that we can just BLOW OFF? WE CAN'T! We need to tell the government to STOP... STOP SPENDING MONEY... THERE ISN'T ANYMORE... YOU'VE SPENT IT ALL AND THEN SOME!!!

So personally, I don't give a rats ass WHO is trying to educate the public about how bad the debt is, JUST AS LONG AS SOMEONE IS DOING IT... BECAUSE IT NEEDS TO BE DONE!

 

[DiveCon]

Anyway, with the national debt as obscene as it is, I don't know that we can afford any more foreign adventures anytime soon. (Nudge back to topic)

yeah, and i have to wonder why this group just saw that it was a problem
where have they been for the last 8 years, hell, the last 50 years

Where have they been? Maybe it's just time someone took the bull by the horns. Ever heard that saying? Maybe someone is finally standing up and saying ENOUGH IS ENOUGH! True obama inherited a massive debt, but he has QUADRUPLED it, and is doing his DAMN BEST to MAKE IT EVEN BIGGER! What part about that escapes you people acting as though this GARGANTUAN, MONSTROUS, CRIPPLING and STILL GROWING DEBT is something that we can just BLOW OFF? WE CAN'T! We need to tell the government to STOP... STOP SPENDING MONEY... THERE ISN'T ANYMORE... YOU'VE SPENT IT ALL AND THEN SOME!!!

So personally, I don't give a rats ass WHO is trying to educate the public about how bad the debt is, JUST AS LONG AS SOMEONE IS DOING IT... BECAUSE IT NEEDS TO BE DONE!

the point is, they are a bit late to the party

 

[007]

yeah, and i have to wonder why this group just saw that it was a problem
where have they been for the last 8 years, hell, the last 50 years

Where have they been? Maybe it's just time someone took the bull by the horns. Ever heard that saying? Maybe someone is finally standing up and saying ENOUGH IS ENOUGH! True obama inherited a massive debt, but he has QUADRUPLED it, and is doing his DAMN BEST to MAKE IT EVEN BIGGER! What part about that escapes you people acting as though this GARGANTUAN, MONSTROUS, CRIPPLING and STILL GROWING DEBT is something that we can just BLOW OFF? WE CAN'T! We need to tell the government to STOP... STOP SPENDING MONEY... THERE ISN'T ANYMORE... YOU'VE SPENT IT ALL AND THEN SOME!!!

So personally, I don't give a rats ass WHO is trying to educate the public about how bad the debt is, JUST AS LONG AS SOMEONE IS DOING IT... BECAUSE IT NEEDS TO BE DONE!

the point is, they are a bit late to the party

Who gives a shit... it's better LATE than NEVER. And don't tell me we can just continue the insane spending, because we CAN'T. We've finally reached the point where there's imminent collapse on the very near horizon. This country is going full blast down a dead end road about ready to hit a brick wall of financial ruin, and the driving force behind it is one little junior senator that doesn't know JACK SHIT about MONEY or the ECONOMY.

 

[goldcatt]

Where have they been? Maybe it's just time someone took the bull by the horns. Ever heard that saying? Maybe someone is finally standing up and saying ENOUGH IS ENOUGH! True obama inherited a massive debt, but he has QUADRUPLED it, and is doing his DAMN BEST to MAKE IT EVEN BIGGER! What part about that escapes you people acting as though this GARGANTUAN, MONSTROUS, CRIPPLING and STILL GROWING DEBT is something that we can just BLOW OFF? WE CAN'T! We need to tell the government to STOP... STOP SPENDING MONEY... THERE ISN'T ANYMORE... YOU'VE SPENT IT ALL AND THEN SOME!!!

So personally, I don't give a rats ass WHO is trying to educate the public about how bad the debt is, JUST AS LONG AS SOMEONE IS DOING IT... BECAUSE IT NEEDS TO BE DONE!

the point is, they are a bit late to the party

Who gives a shit... it's better LATE than NEVER. And don't tell me we can just continue the insane spending, because we CAN'T. We've finally reached the point where there's imminent collapse on the very near horizon.

Obama's on a spending frenzy, but to be honest I'm not sure even if he was responsible he could do much alone. And Congress no matter who was in control hasn't seen a dollar it didn't want to spend at least twice for decades. It's one thing to wake people up, but how do we get the people who matter to agree on a course of action - and stick to it?