Green Energy taxes the poor, gives to the rich

[mdn2000]

Another thread by the same old Environut. I say ignore it. The idiot has brain damage

Old Crock is literally putting his hand in everyones pocket and Old Crock enjoys it.[

It is fact that to have green energy taxes must be raised on me and you, on our moms, on our fathers, taxes must be raised on my children, taxes must be raised on food, on water, on the phone, property taxes must go up, fees must go up. The price of food must rise, the price of gasoline must rise.

The price of everything is going up so that Old Crock can shove green energy down our throats.

Electrical rates are already too high and they are going up. I can barely afford electricity. I a have to watch the lights, turn off the TV, watch the fridge.

Global warming and green energy are already costing americans a trillion dollars a year

Each person in the USA is paying more for food because of Old Crock, literally, so far global warming and green energy have won.

That is why the price of everything is at record highs. Sure some of it is the economy but much happened before the economy. Food prices went up way before the dollar lost value, food and electricity are going up as fast as windmills and solar farms.

 

[Old Rocks]

Alternatives will be cheaper than coal.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=a-path-to-sustainable-energy-by-2030&page=4As

Cheap as Coal
The mix of WWS sources in our plan can reliably supply the residential, commercial, industrial and transportation sectors. The logical next question is whether the power would be affordable. For each technology, we calculated how much it would cost a producer to generate power and transmit it across the grid. We included the annualized cost of capital, land, operations, maintenance, energy storage to help offset intermittent supply, and transmission. Today the cost of wind, geothermal and hydroelectric are all less than seven cents a kilowatt-hour (¢/kWh); wave and solar are higher. But by 2020 and beyond wind, wave and hydro are expected to be 4¢/kWh or less.

For comparison, the average cost in the U.S. in 2007 of conventional power generation and transmission was about 7¢/kWh, and it is projected to be 8¢/kWh in 2020. Power from wind turbines, for example, already costs about the same or less than it does from a new coal or natural gas plant, and in the future wind power is expected to be the least costly of all options. The competitive cost of wind has made it the second-largest source of new electric power generation in the U.S. for the past three years, behind natural gas and ahead of coal.

 

[mdn2000]

Alternatives will be cheaper than coal.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=a-path-to-sustainable-energy-by-2030&page=4As

Cheap as Coal
The mix of WWS sources in our plan can reliably supply the residential, commercial, industrial and transportation sectors. The logical next question is whether the power would be affordable. For each technology, we calculated how much it would cost a producer to generate power and transmit it across the grid. We included the annualized cost of capital, land, operations, maintenance, energy storage to help offset intermittent supply, and transmission. Today the cost of wind, geothermal and hydroelectric are all less than seven cents a kilowatt-hour (¢/kWh); wave and solar are higher. But by 2020 and beyond wind, wave and hydro are expected to be 4¢/kWh or less.

For comparison, the average cost in the U.S. in 2007 of conventional power generation and transmission was about 7¢/kWh, and it is projected to be 8¢/kWh in 2020. Power from wind turbines, for example, already costs about the same or less than it does from a new coal or natural gas plant, and in the future wind power is expected to be the least costly of all options. The competitive cost of wind has made it the second-largest source of new electric power generation in the U.S. for the past three years, behind natural gas and ahead of coal.

So I guess what Old Crock is saying with this link is you will be paying so much more for food that you will be forced to buy only rice, beans, and potatoes.

Milk products will be only availalbe for the very rich, the politicians, or government employees.

The variety of fresh produce will be limited to few products.

The article states it well.

Consumers will now pay for the damage we have done to the enviroment, prices for even basic human needs will consume 80% of our annual pay.

 

[FactFinder]

Alternatives will be cheaper than coal.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=a-path-to-sustainable-energy-by-2030&page=4As

Cheap as Coal
The mix of WWS sources in our plan can reliably supply the residential, commercial, industrial and transportation sectors. The logical next question is whether the power would be affordable. For each technology, we calculated how much it would cost a producer to generate power and transmit it across the grid. We included the annualized cost of capital, land, operations, maintenance, energy storage to help offset intermittent supply, and transmission. Today the cost of wind, geothermal and hydroelectric are all less than seven cents a kilowatt-hour (¢/kWh); wave and solar are higher. But by 2020 and beyond wind, wave and hydro are expected to be 4¢/kWh or less.

For comparison, the average cost in the U.S. in 2007 of conventional power generation and transmission was about 7¢/kWh, and it is projected to be 8¢/kWh in 2020. Power from wind turbines, for example, already costs about the same or less than it does from a new coal or natural gas plant, and in the future wind power is expected to be the least costly of all options. The competitive cost of wind has made it the second-largest source of new electric power generation in the U.S. for the past three years, behind natural gas and ahead of coal.

Did they add in the cost of the government subsidies for wind, solar and geothermal? I think not.

 

[elvis]

Alternatives will be cheaper than coal.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=a-path-to-sustainable-energy-by-2030&page=4As

Cheap as Coal
The mix of WWS sources in our plan can reliably supply the residential, commercial, industrial and transportation sectors. The logical next question is whether the power would be affordable. For each technology, we calculated how much it would cost a producer to generate power and transmit it across the grid. We included the annualized cost of capital, land, operations, maintenance, energy storage to help offset intermittent supply, and transmission. Today the cost of wind, geothermal and hydroelectric are all less than seven cents a kilowatt-hour (¢/kWh); wave and solar are higher. But by 2020 and beyond wind, wave and hydro are expected to be 4¢/kWh or less.

For comparison, the average cost in the U.S. in 2007 of conventional power generation and transmission was about 7¢/kWh, and it is projected to be 8¢/kWh in 2020. Power from wind turbines, for example, already costs about the same or less than it does from a new coal or natural gas plant, and in the future wind power is expected to be the least costly of all options. The competitive cost of wind has made it the second-largest source of new electric power generation in the U.S. for the past three years, behind natural gas and ahead of coal.

Did they add in the cost of the government subsidies for wind, solar and geothermal? I think not.

subsidies don't count. That's not real money. just ask rockhead.

 

[Old Rocks]

Hey dingbats. Fossil fuels have long gotten subsidies. Now the end of those subsidies in sight. And we are subsidizing these alternatives only to get the clean energy going quickly.

Clean energy is now clearly cheaper than dirty coal. When you factor in the polution from coal and natural gas, clean energy is cheap.

You do realize that this is a Scientific American article, do you not? Kind of blows your nonsence out of the water. Cheaper than coal and clean. Cannot get any better than that.

 

[elvis]

Hey dingbats. Fossil fuels have long gotten subsidies. Now the end of those subsidies in sight. And we are subsidizing these alternatives only to get the clean energy going quickly.

Clean energy is now clearly cheaper than dirty coal. When you factor in the polution from coal and natural gas, clean energy is cheap.

You do realize that this is a Scientific American article, do you not? Kind of blows your nonsence out of the water. Cheaper than coal and clean. Cannot get any better than that.

I guess they don't teach spelling in carpentry school.

 

[FactFinder]

Hey dingbats. Fossil fuels have long gotten subsidies. Now the end of those subsidies in sight. And we are subsidizing these alternatives only to get the clean energy going quickly.

Clean energy is now clearly cheaper than dirty coal. When you factor in the polution from coal and natural gas, clean energy is cheap.

You do realize that this is a Scientific American article, do you not? Kind of blows your nonsence out of the water. Cheaper than coal and clean. Cannot get any better than that.

Coal isn't a cause of interest payments to China.

 

[FactFinder]

Hey dingbats. Fossil fuels have long gotten subsidies. Now the end of those subsidies in sight. And we are subsidizing these alternatives only to get the clean energy going quickly.

Clean energy is now clearly cheaper than dirty coal. When you factor in the polution from coal and natural gas, clean energy is cheap.

You do realize that this is a Scientific American article, do you not? Kind of blows your nonsence out of the water. Cheaper than coal and clean. Cannot get any better than that.

I guess they don't teach spelling in carpentry school.

I thought OR was a millwright?

 

[mdn2000]

Hey dingbats. Fossil fuels have long gotten subsidies. Now the end of those subsidies in sight. And we are subsidizing these alternatives only to get the clean energy going quickly.

Clean energy is now clearly cheaper than dirty coal. When you factor in the polution from coal and natural gas, clean energy is cheap.

You do realize that this is a Scientific American article, do you not? Kind of blows your nonsence out of the water. Cheaper than coal and clean. Cannot get any better than that.

Clean energy is not cheap, I have proven that Old Crock has not responded, actually Old Crock posted articles showing Green Energy is more expensive, the MIT study on geothermal is very explicit stating Geothermal is very expensive. This is a MIT study that Old Crock used as his source.


Old Crock should explain how much energy and pollution is used to create one ton of fiberglass, I can start by stating a windmill uses 260 tons of fiberglass. Fiberglass production is not green.

Green energy is such a weak source of energy you cannot run heavy industry with the power created from all the worlds green energy put together. Without the power to supply heavy industry how do you build a windmill, geothermal, or solar plant.

Not one source of energy is green, least of all solar, wind, and geothermal that per kilowatt use a greater percentage of natural resources, such a higher percentage its a negative gain, more energy goes into the production of green energy than ever comes out.

Green Energy is raising the cost of food, water, electricity, clothing, and shelter.

 

[Old Rocks]

Seems that MIT has a much more optimistic outlook than you state.


MIT PUBLISHES "THE FUTURE OF GEOTHERMAL ENERGY.". -- Britannica Online Encyclopedia


WORLDWIDE ENERGY
P.O. BOX 243273, BOYNTON BEACH, FL 33424 TEL. (561)738-2276 MARCH 2007 Vol. 18, No. 3 E-mail: [email protected] Copyright 2007 by Worldwide Videotex Web site: www.wvpubs.com

MIT PUBLISHES "THE FUTURE OF GEOTHERMAL ENERGY" A comprehensive new MIT-led study of the potential for geothermal energy within the United States has found that mining the huge amounts of heat that reside as stored thermal energy in the Earth's hard rock crust could supply a substantial portion of the electricity the United States will need in the future, probably at competitive prices and with minimal environmental impact. An 18-member panel led by MIT prepared the 400-plus page study, titled "The Future of Geothermal Energy." Sponsored by the U.S. Department of Energy, it is the first study in some 30 years to take a new look at geothermal, an energy resource that has been largely ignored. The goal of the study was to assess the feasibility, potential environmental impacts and economic viability of using enhanced geothermal system (EGS) technology to greatly increase the fraction of the U.S. geothermal resource that could be recovered commercially. Although geothermal energy is produced commercially today and the United States is the world's biggest producer, existing U.S. plants have focused on the high-grade geothermal systems primarily located in isolated regions of the west. This new study takes a more ambitious look at this resource and evaluates its potential for much larger-scale deployment. "We've determined that heat mining can be economical in the short term, based on a global analysis of existing geothermal systems, an assessment of the total U.S. resource and continuing improvements in deep-drilling and reservoir stimulation technology," said panel head Jefferson W. Tester, the H. P. Meissner Professor of Chemical Engineering at MIT. "EGS technology has already been proven to work in the few areas where underground heat has been successfully extracted. And further technological improvements can be expected," he said.

 

[Old Rocks]

Hey dingbats. Fossil fuels have long gotten subsidies. Now the end of those subsidies in sight. And we are subsidizing these alternatives only to get the clean energy going quickly.

Clean energy is now clearly cheaper than dirty coal. When you factor in the polution from coal and natural gas, clean energy is cheap.

You do realize that this is a Scientific American article, do you not? Kind of blows your nonsence out of the water. Cheaper than coal and clean. Cannot get any better than that.

Clean energy is not cheap, I have proven that Old Crock has not responded, actually Old Crock posted articles showing Green Energy is more expensive, the MIT study on geothermal is very explicit stating Geothermal is very expensive. This is a MIT study that Old Crock used as his source.


Old Crock should explain how much energy and pollution is used to create one ton of fiberglass, I can start by stating a windmill uses 260 tons of fiberglass. Fiberglass production is not green.

Green energy is such a weak source of energy you cannot run heavy industry with the power created from all the worlds green energy put together. Without the power to supply heavy industry how do you build a windmill, geothermal, or solar plant.

Not one source of energy is green, least of all solar, wind, and geothermal that per kilowatt use a greater percentage of natural resources, such a higher percentage its a negative gain, more energy goes into the production of green energy than ever comes out.

Green Energy is raising the cost of food, water, electricity, clothing, and shelter.

Mdn2000, you are not only a liar, you are a complete fruitcake. As the article in the Scientific American points out, the alternative energy sources are not only cleaner in operation than coal and natural gas, but cleaner in the resources it takes to build them, in comparison to coal, natural gas, and, yes, nuclear.

 

[mdn2000]

Hey dingbats. Fossil fuels have long gotten subsidies. Now the end of those subsidies in sight. And we are subsidizing these alternatives only to get the clean energy going quickly.

Clean energy is now clearly cheaper than dirty coal. When you factor in the polution from coal and natural gas, clean energy is cheap.

You do realize that this is a Scientific American article, do you not? Kind of blows your nonsence out of the water. Cheaper than coal and clean. Cannot get any better than that.

Clean energy is not cheap, I have proven that Old Crock has not responded, actually Old Crock posted articles showing Green Energy is more expensive, the MIT study on geothermal is very explicit stating Geothermal is very expensive. This is a MIT study that Old Crock used as his source.


Old Crock should explain how much energy and pollution is used to create one ton of fiberglass, I can start by stating a windmill uses 260 tons of fiberglass. Fiberglass production is not green.

Green energy is such a weak source of energy you cannot run heavy industry with the power created from all the worlds green energy put together. Without the power to supply heavy industry how do you build a windmill, geothermal, or solar plant.

Not one source of energy is green, least of all solar, wind, and geothermal that per kilowatt use a greater percentage of natural resources, such a higher percentage its a negative gain, more energy goes into the production of green energy than ever comes out.

Green Energy is raising the cost of food, water, electricity, clothing, and shelter.

Mdn2000, you are not only a liar, you are a complete fruitcake. As the article in the Scientific American points out, the alternative energy sources are not only cleaner in operation than coal and natural gas, but cleaner in the resources it takes to build them, in comparison to coal, natural gas, and, yes, nuclear.

First off you did not read the ariticle, second the article states only if you hide the energy you use to build the windmill, the geothermal plant, or the solar panels. Yes a windmill does not pollute but the process to build a windmill creates more pollution per kilo watt than burning dirty coal. Its like pulling your car by hooking a chain to your the car in front of you, your moving creating no pollution, if the chain is long enough we dont measure any pollution at Old Crocks car but if you go to where the windmill is being made than you see tons of pollution.

Maybe Old Crock can tell us how many types of energy are used to make one ton of fiberglass and how much of each type. Or maybe Old Crock can tell us what is the name of the thing that makes fiberglass, maybe Old Crock can tell us all the things that it takes to make fiberglass. Than after that we can discuss how much metal is used, what types, how much, than how much energy and of what types is used in this process.

All of Old Crock's sources have stated the costs are hidden, that includes the cost of the manufacturing process, the cost to the enviroment in tons of wasted energy.

To use energy to make a weaker energy source than the original is a complete waste of energy.

Its like making a copy of a copy of a copy and getting something much weaker than the original.

Old Crock, I hardly got it in me to call you a fool, you just seem like a troll or a political hack, a parrot, repeating what the media tells you, sheeple is the word that comes to mind.

How do the environuts come to beleive so easily everything that is told them.

I dont expect Old Crock to respond, maybe he will post a link for me to chase, which I wont. lets see if Old Crock can support anything he proposes.

So lets start with a windmill, how much and of what types of energy used to produce one ton of fiberglass.

 

[JD_2B]

Another thread by the same old Environut. I say ignore it. The idiot has brain damage

Old Crock is literally putting his hand in everyones pocket and Old Crock enjoys it.[

It is fact that to have green energy taxes must be raised on me and you, on our moms, on our fathers, taxes must be raised on my children, taxes must be raised on food, on water, on the phone, property taxes must go up, fees must go up. The price of food must rise, the price of gasoline must rise.

The price of everything is going up so that Old Crock can shove green energy down our throats.

Electrical rates are already too high and they are going up. I can barely afford electricity. I a have to watch the lights, turn off the TV, watch the fridge.

Global warming and green energy are already costing americans a trillion dollars a year

Each person in the USA is paying more for food because of Old Crock, literally, so far global warming and green energy have won.

That is why the price of everything is at record highs. Sure some of it is the economy but much happened before the economy. Food prices went up way before the dollar lost value, food and electricity are going up as fast as windmills and solar farms.

What are you? Some kind of groupie Stalker???

Why are you obsessing over OR???

 

[mdn2000]

Another thread by the same old Environut. I say ignore it. The idiot has brain damage

Old Crock is literally putting his hand in everyones pocket and Old Crock enjoys it.[

It is fact that to have green energy taxes must be raised on me and you, on our moms, on our fathers, taxes must be raised on my children, taxes must be raised on food, on water, on the phone, property taxes must go up, fees must go up. The price of food must rise, the price of gasoline must rise.

The price of everything is going up so that Old Crock can shove green energy down our throats.

Electrical rates are already too high and they are going up. I can barely afford electricity. I a have to watch the lights, turn off the TV, watch the fridge.

Global warming and green energy are already costing americans a trillion dollars a year

Each person in the USA is paying more for food because of Old Crock, literally, so far global warming and green energy have won.

That is why the price of everything is at record highs. Sure some of it is the economy but much happened before the economy. Food prices went up way before the dollar lost value, food and electricity are going up as fast as windmills and solar farms.

What are you? Some kind of groupie Stalker???

Why are you obsessing over OR???

Why do you want to hide the facts.

Why are defending a liar.

Why is it so important to your political cause to advance a policy built on lies and deceit.

 

[Chris]

Another thread by the same old Environut. I say ignore it. The idiot has brain damage

Old Crock is literally putting his hand in everyones pocket and Old Crock enjoys it.[

It is fact that to have green energy taxes must be raised on me and you, on our moms, on our fathers, taxes must be raised on my children, taxes must be raised on food, on water, on the phone, property taxes must go up, fees must go up. The price of food must rise, the price of gasoline must rise.

The price of everything is going up so that Old Crock can shove green energy down our throats.

Electrical rates are already too high and they are going up. I can barely afford electricity. I a have to watch the lights, turn off the TV, watch the fridge.

Global warming and green energy are already costing americans a trillion dollars a year

Each person in the USA is paying more for food because of Old Crock, literally, so far global warming and green energy have won.

That is why the price of everything is at record highs. Sure some of it is the economy but much happened before the economy. Food prices went up way before the dollar lost value, food and electricity are going up as fast as windmills and solar farms.

What are you? Some kind of groupie Stalker???

Why are you obsessing over OR???

Because mdn2000 works for the American Petroleum Institute.

 

[mdn2000]

Another thread by the same old Environut. I say ignore it. The idiot has brain damage

Old Crock is literally putting his hand in everyones pocket and Old Crock enjoys it.[

It is fact that to have green energy taxes must be raised on me and you, on our moms, on our fathers, taxes must be raised on my children, taxes must be raised on food, on water, on the phone, property taxes must go up, fees must go up. The price of food must rise, the price of gasoline must rise.

The price of everything is going up so that Old Crock can shove green energy down our throats.

Electrical rates are already too high and they are going up. I can barely afford electricity. I a have to watch the lights, turn off the TV, watch the fridge.

Global warming and green energy are already costing americans a trillion dollars a year

Each person in the USA is paying more for food because of Old Crock, literally, so far global warming and green energy have won.

That is why the price of everything is at record highs. Sure some of it is the economy but much happened before the economy. Food prices went up way before the dollar lost value, food and electricity are going up as fast as windmills and solar farms.

What are you? Some kind of groupie Stalker???

Why are you obsessing over OR???

Because mdn2000 works for the American Petroleum Institute.

Wow, like working for money is bad, so you still live at home, thats why you have such a dependent, insecure, position where you must feel real insecure at the thought of making a living and supporting yourself. Chrissy doesnt pay for energy, Chrissy most likely pays for nothing thats why chrissy cannot comprehend the debt working folks must pay.

 

[Mr. H.]

Hey dingbats. Fossil fuels have long gotten subsidies. Now the end of those subsidies in sight.

I'm honestly curious - what are these subsidies to which you refer?

And why do you say the end of those subsidies is in sight?

 

[Chris]

What are you? Some kind of groupie Stalker???

Why are you obsessing over OR???

Because mdn2000 works for the American Petroleum Institute.

Wow, like working for money is bad, so you still live at home, thats why you have such a dependent, insecure, position where you must feel real insecure at the thought of making a living and supporting yourself. Chrissy doesnt pay for energy, Chrissy most likely pays for nothing thats why chrissy cannot comprehend the debt working folks must pay.

I work seven days a week, own my own home, and make more money than you.

But thanks for playing.

 

[Chris]

Hey dingbats. Fossil fuels have long gotten subsidies. Now the end of those subsidies in sight.

I'm honestly curious - what are these subsidies to which you refer?

And why do you say the end of those subsidies is in sight?

Taxpayers for Common Sense