Greece Was A "Progressive" Utopia

[Socialist]

Time to educate you idiots on greece:

We should be clear: almost none of the huge amount of money loaned to Greece has actually gone there. It has gone to pay out private-sector creditors – including German and French banks. Greece has gotten but a pittance, but it has paid a high price to preserve these countries’ banking systems. The IMF and the other “official” creditors do not need the money that is being demanded. Under a business-as-usual scenario, the money received would most likely just be lent out again to Greece. Joseph Stiglitz how I would vote in the Greek referendum Business The Guardian

A recent study by the Greek economist Yiannis Mouzakis, based on European Commission review documents, IMF evaluation reports and Greek government budget documents, revealed that only 27 billion euros – a meagre 11 per cent of the total funding – were used for the Greek state’s operating needs. Which squares with the fact that the Greek government, as a result of the brutal belt-tightening imposed by the troika, has been running a primary surplus (i.e., its revenues have exceeded expenses) since 2013.

What about the rest of the money? Well, it went to the country’s banks and foreign creditors, mostly French and German banks. In other words, more than 80 per cent of the bailout funds were used to bail out, either directly or indirectly, the financial sector (both Greek and foreign) – not the Greek state. In the process, the overwhelming majority of Greek government debt was shifted from the private sector to the public sector, with other eurozone governments now liable for around 65 per cent of Greece’s debt (and another 20 per cent in the hands of the ECB and IMF).

Why has greece been troubled?

Tax evasion by the rich, Goldman Sachs helped hide the extent of government debt, both of which became unsustainable when the 2008/2009 crisis hit and state revenues dried up.

 

[eagle1462010]

Time to educate you idiots on greece:

We should be clear: almost none of the huge amount of money loaned to Greece has actually gone there. It has gone to pay out private-sector creditors – including German and French banks. Greece has gotten but a pittance, but it has paid a high price to preserve these countries’ banking systems. The IMF and the other “official” creditors do not need the money that is being demanded. Under a business-as-usual scenario, the money received would most likely just be lent out again to Greece. Joseph Stiglitz how I would vote in the Greek referendum Business The Guardian

A recent study by the Greek economist Yiannis Mouzakis, based on European Commission review documents, IMF evaluation reports and Greek government budget documents, revealed that only 27 billion euros – a meagre 11 per cent of the total funding – were used for the Greek state’s operating needs. Which squares with the fact that the Greek government, as a result of the brutal belt-tightening imposed by the troika, has been running a primary surplus (i.e., its revenues have exceeded expenses) since 2013.

What about the rest of the money? Well, it went to the country’s banks and foreign creditors, mostly French and German banks. In other words, more than 80 per cent of the bailout funds were used to bail out, either directly or indirectly, the financial sector (both Greek and foreign) – not the Greek state. In the process, the overwhelming majority of Greek government debt was shifted from the private sector to the public sector, with other eurozone governments now liable for around 65 per cent of Greece’s debt (and another 20 per cent in the hands of the ECB and IMF).

Why has greece been troubled?

Tax evasion by the rich, Goldman Sachs helped hide the extent of government debt, both of which became unsustainable when the 2008/2009 crisis hit and state revenues dried up.

aka They took out loans to pay the loans that were created before the crash ever happened. Before the Crash they were already at 100% of their GDP in debt already. The crash hurt every nation.............but it hurts those with economies already in the dump even more. Especially to a country that offered up to it's people hoopla of early retirement and pixies.............with no way in hell of paying for it..................They should have cut to the bone even before the crash and even sold off assets back then to ensure solvency..................

They just tried to have a fire sale..........they went around the region trying to sell anything they could think of and nobody bought a thing.

When the EU was formed I was against it................even though I'm not from Europe. I said it sells your Sovereignty to a foreign entity who will later use this power to set policy for your own country. It also causes the strong to go downc because of the actions of the weak. Each country should rise or fall on their own, and had Greece done so it would have just increased the circulation of it's currency and or attempted bond sells on the world market..............aka purposely deflate the value of its currency to stay afloat............but too much of that and people stop buying the currency or it turns into toilet paper, but at least Greece wouldn't have anybody else to blame but themselves.........and would only beholding to themselves to get out of the mess of their creation.

 

[eagle1462010]

http://www.hawaii.edu/hivandaids/Ri...in_Argentina__The_Role_of_Economic_Groups.pdf

Conclusion As was mentioned above, after devaluation the anatomy of Argentine society was suddenly brought to the fore. The newly formed privatized companies pressured the government for increases in public rates so as to redress their profitability in dollar terms, which had fallen due to devaluation. The banks did so too, because of the asymmetry in the pesification process. Foreign creditors lobbied against the default, this time supported by an atomization of the creditor field in which small pensioners and retirees were stuck with defaulted bonds. And there was the vast amount of people that were the true losers of the crisis: unemployment reached 25 percent, and if underemployment is considered this implies that over 50 percent of the population was in some way unemployed. Poverty escalated to over 50 percent of the population, 10 million of whom were extremely poor, that is persons remaining below the indigence line. Devaluation also caused wages to fall drastically. One of the responses of government was the wholesale distribution of Planes Trabajar, a sort of unemployment subsidy that amounted to a bare 150 pesos per family (about US$50 at the current foreign exchange rate). Thus, Argentine society was substantially transformed in comparison with what it was 20 years before. Income distribution worsened tremendously, access to food, employment, health, housing and security have been trampled upon, as a consequence of the chaos created by what could be termed a system of ‘legal’ but not necessarily ‘legitimate’ macroeconomic looting, in the wake of the so-called process of financial valorization. A system that had given priority to large economic groups and conglomerates thus led to the wholesale transfer of income and wealth to these interests. The rest of society has remained devastated, lacking food, health, education, security, adequate housing, etc. This can be also visualized as part of a vast process whereby the state adopted a series of transfer mechanisms of income and wealth in favor of these ‘privileged’ sectors. These measures did not only serve to increase growth and accumulation – on the contrary, the performance of the economy in recent years has been notorious – but the social consequences and social costs they caused has created an enormous predicament for the future of Argentine society

 

[eagle1462010]

What happened to Greece happened to Argentina.................
Argentina wanted to go Global on Trade and compete with the big boys......
They took out loans to pay another day.............but when that day came they couldn't pay...........as their was no way to pay the loans and pay to run the gov't as well.........................
So they took out more loans to buy time..........and when the time ran out they were still in the same position they started in but even worse............
So they defaulted..........as they were already fucked anyway...............and the damage was 25% unemployment........with the possibility of 50% unemployment if they didn't skew the data.......................

Half the nation out of work.......no credit...........and ditched by the world markets...............they imploded..................and the nation endured and is enduring the actions of the past to get into debt well beyond their means under the DELUSION OF GRANDEUR....................



Greece suffered under the same delusions................Wanted to strut their stuff to the world.........Get the Olympics for national pride...........cheering we are great..........................and started BORROWING OUT THE ASS...........with no means to pay it back............especially when they were allowing retirements at the age of 50......................under this DELUSION................they borrowed and borrowed...............LIFE WAS GRAND.........THE GRAND ILLUSION..............and when it came time to pay...........they went down the exact path of Argentina.............and will suffer the same result..............

The only question remaining is will they stay in the EU or depart..............either way.............they can't pay their bills and everyone knows it.

 

[eagle1462010]

Here in America..................we are under the DELUSION of the GRAND ILLUSION...........THAT IT CAN'T HAPPEN HERE.........
and so we accelerate down the paved road to HELL......

 

[eagle1462010]

Styx- The grand illusion

Welcome to the grand illusion
Come on in and see whats happening
Pay the price, get your tickets for the show
The stage is set, the band starts playing
Suddenly your heart is pounding
Wishing secretly you were a star.

But dont be fooled by the radio
The tv or the magazines
They show you photographs of how your life should be
But theyre just someone elses fantasy
So if you think your life is complete confusion
Because you never win the game
Just remember that its a grand illusion
And deep inside were all the same.
Were all the same...

So if you think your life is complete confusion
Because your neighbors got it made
Just remember that its a grand illusion
And deep inside were all the same.
Were all the same...

America spells competition, join us in our blind ambition
Get yourself a brand new motor car
Someday soon well stop to ponder what on earths this spell were under
We made the grade and still we wonder who the hell we are
All rights go to Styx

 

[ChrisL]

What a shame about Greece. It's such a beautiful place. I would really love to visit there someday and see the ancient ruins and stuff. I'm surprised that the money from the tourism industry hasn't helped them to pay off their debts.

 

[Moonglow]

Frank, why do you want the whole world to be like Greece? Why inflict more of the conservative economic polices that have failed miserably everywhere else they've been tried?

What's is wrong is always conservative.

What's right is always progressive.

How does one get so small minded? It must be a gift.

The same whey you have become so small minded....you are actually seeing a mirrored image of yourself on the opposite side....

 

[eagle1462010]

What a shame about Greece. It's such a beautiful place. I would really love to visit there someday and see the ancient ruins and stuff. I'm surprised that the money from the tourism industry hasn't helped them to pay off their debts.

Actually.........their tourism is doing very well........it's not enough to pay the piper......
Their Shipping and container business are doing well..........
Their agro base is still doing well............

but when your Gov't has to pay 50% to pay the debt off the bat...........has a 25% unemployment rate........30% of the population over the age of 65......youth unemployment of the working age unemployment over 50%..........and people retiring at early ages..............IT'S OVER..........

 

[ChrisL]

Time to educate you idiots on greece:

We should be clear: almost none of the huge amount of money loaned to Greece has actually gone there. It has gone to pay out private-sector creditors – including German and French banks. Greece has gotten but a pittance, but it has paid a high price to preserve these countries’ banking systems. The IMF and the other “official” creditors do not need the money that is being demanded. Under a business-as-usual scenario, the money received would most likely just be lent out again to Greece. Joseph Stiglitz how I would vote in the Greek referendum Business The Guardian

A recent study by the Greek economist Yiannis Mouzakis, based on European Commission review documents, IMF evaluation reports and Greek government budget documents, revealed that only 27 billion euros – a meagre 11 per cent of the total funding – were used for the Greek state’s operating needs. Which squares with the fact that the Greek government, as a result of the brutal belt-tightening imposed by the troika, has been running a primary surplus (i.e., its revenues have exceeded expenses) since 2013.

What about the rest of the money? Well, it went to the country’s banks and foreign creditors, mostly French and German banks. In other words, more than 80 per cent of the bailout funds were used to bail out, either directly or indirectly, the financial sector (both Greek and foreign) – not the Greek state. In the process, the overwhelming majority of Greek government debt was shifted from the private sector to the public sector, with other eurozone governments now liable for around 65 per cent of Greece’s debt (and another 20 per cent in the hands of the ECB and IMF).

Why has greece been troubled?

Tax evasion by the rich, Goldman Sachs helped hide the extent of government debt, both of which became unsustainable when the 2008/2009 crisis hit and state revenues dried up.

aka They took out loans to pay the loans that were created before the crash ever happened. Before the Crash they were already at 100% of their GDP in debt already. The crash hurt every nation.............but it hurts those with economies already in the dump even more. Especially to a country that offered up to it's people hoopla of early retirement and pixies.............with no way in hell of paying for it..................They should have cut to the bone even before the crash and even sold off assets back then to ensure solvency..................

They just tried to have a fire sale..........they went around the region trying to sell anything they could think of and nobody bought a thing.

When the EU was formed I was against it................even though I'm not from Europe. I said it sells your Sovereignty to a foreign entity who will later use this power to set policy for your own country. It also causes the strong to go downc because of the actions of the weak. Each country should rise or fall on their own, and had Greece done so it would have just increased the circulation of it's currency and or attempted bond sells on the world market..............aka purposely deflate the value of its currency to stay afloat............but too much of that and people stop buying the currency or it turns into toilet paper, but at least Greece wouldn't have anybody else to blame but themselves.........and would only beholding to themselves to get out of the mess of their creation.

Yeah, that's what happens when you get ideologues running the show who really don't know anything about how to balance a budget. They seem to think money grows on trees!

Kind of like our government . . . "I know! Let's just print more money!" Lol!

 

[eagle1462010]

Time to educate you idiots on greece:

We should be clear: almost none of the huge amount of money loaned to Greece has actually gone there. It has gone to pay out private-sector creditors – including German and French banks. Greece has gotten but a pittance, but it has paid a high price to preserve these countries’ banking systems. The IMF and the other “official” creditors do not need the money that is being demanded. Under a business-as-usual scenario, the money received would most likely just be lent out again to Greece. Joseph Stiglitz how I would vote in the Greek referendum Business The Guardian

A recent study by the Greek economist Yiannis Mouzakis, based on European Commission review documents, IMF evaluation reports and Greek government budget documents, revealed that only 27 billion euros – a meagre 11 per cent of the total funding – were used for the Greek state’s operating needs. Which squares with the fact that the Greek government, as a result of the brutal belt-tightening imposed by the troika, has been running a primary surplus (i.e., its revenues have exceeded expenses) since 2013.

What about the rest of the money? Well, it went to the country’s banks and foreign creditors, mostly French and German banks. In other words, more than 80 per cent of the bailout funds were used to bail out, either directly or indirectly, the financial sector (both Greek and foreign) – not the Greek state. In the process, the overwhelming majority of Greek government debt was shifted from the private sector to the public sector, with other eurozone governments now liable for around 65 per cent of Greece’s debt (and another 20 per cent in the hands of the ECB and IMF).

Why has greece been troubled?

Tax evasion by the rich, Goldman Sachs helped hide the extent of government debt, both of which became unsustainable when the 2008/2009 crisis hit and state revenues dried up.

aka They took out loans to pay the loans that were created before the crash ever happened. Before the Crash they were already at 100% of their GDP in debt already. The crash hurt every nation.............but it hurts those with economies already in the dump even more. Especially to a country that offered up to it's people hoopla of early retirement and pixies.............with no way in hell of paying for it..................They should have cut to the bone even before the crash and even sold off assets back then to ensure solvency..................

They just tried to have a fire sale..........they went around the region trying to sell anything they could think of and nobody bought a thing.

When the EU was formed I was against it................even though I'm not from Europe. I said it sells your Sovereignty to a foreign entity who will later use this power to set policy for your own country. It also causes the strong to go downc because of the actions of the weak. Each country should rise or fall on their own, and had Greece done so it would have just increased the circulation of it's currency and or attempted bond sells on the world market..............aka purposely deflate the value of its currency to stay afloat............but too much of that and people stop buying the currency or it turns into toilet paper, but at least Greece wouldn't have anybody else to blame but themselves.........and would only beholding to themselves to get out of the mess of their creation.

Yeah, that's what happens when you get ideologues running the show who really don't know anything about how to balance a budget. They seem to think money grows on trees!

Kind of like our government . . . "I know! Let's just print more money!" Lol!

Our GRAND ILLUSION is coming..............there is no stopping it anymore............we are in too deep.............
No one in our Gov't has the guts to do what is necessary...........and so we JUGGLE THE CREDIT CARDS......................UNTIL the long list of CREDIT CARDS END...............and it all tumbles to the ground...................and we are done.........

 

[ChrisL]

Time to educate you idiots on greece:

We should be clear: almost none of the huge amount of money loaned to Greece has actually gone there. It has gone to pay out private-sector creditors – including German and French banks. Greece has gotten but a pittance, but it has paid a high price to preserve these countries’ banking systems. The IMF and the other “official” creditors do not need the money that is being demanded. Under a business-as-usual scenario, the money received would most likely just be lent out again to Greece. Joseph Stiglitz how I would vote in the Greek referendum Business The Guardian

A recent study by the Greek economist Yiannis Mouzakis, based on European Commission review documents, IMF evaluation reports and Greek government budget documents, revealed that only 27 billion euros – a meagre 11 per cent of the total funding – were used for the Greek state’s operating needs. Which squares with the fact that the Greek government, as a result of the brutal belt-tightening imposed by the troika, has been running a primary surplus (i.e., its revenues have exceeded expenses) since 2013.

What about the rest of the money? Well, it went to the country’s banks and foreign creditors, mostly French and German banks. In other words, more than 80 per cent of the bailout funds were used to bail out, either directly or indirectly, the financial sector (both Greek and foreign) – not the Greek state. In the process, the overwhelming majority of Greek government debt was shifted from the private sector to the public sector, with other eurozone governments now liable for around 65 per cent of Greece’s debt (and another 20 per cent in the hands of the ECB and IMF).

Why has greece been troubled?

Tax evasion by the rich, Goldman Sachs helped hide the extent of government debt, both of which became unsustainable when the 2008/2009 crisis hit and state revenues dried up.

aka They took out loans to pay the loans that were created before the crash ever happened. Before the Crash they were already at 100% of their GDP in debt already. The crash hurt every nation.............but it hurts those with economies already in the dump even more. Especially to a country that offered up to it's people hoopla of early retirement and pixies.............with no way in hell of paying for it..................They should have cut to the bone even before the crash and even sold off assets back then to ensure solvency..................

They just tried to have a fire sale..........they went around the region trying to sell anything they could think of and nobody bought a thing.

When the EU was formed I was against it................even though I'm not from Europe. I said it sells your Sovereignty to a foreign entity who will later use this power to set policy for your own country. It also causes the strong to go downc because of the actions of the weak. Each country should rise or fall on their own, and had Greece done so it would have just increased the circulation of it's currency and or attempted bond sells on the world market..............aka purposely deflate the value of its currency to stay afloat............but too much of that and people stop buying the currency or it turns into toilet paper, but at least Greece wouldn't have anybody else to blame but themselves.........and would only beholding to themselves to get out of the mess of their creation.

Yeah, that's what happens when you get ideologues running the show who really don't know anything about how to balance a budget. They seem to think money grows on trees!

Kind of like our government . . . "I know! Let's just print more money!" Lol!

Our GRAND ILLUSION is coming..............there is no stopping it anymore............we are in too deep.............
No one in our Gov't has the guts to do what is necessary...........and so we JUGGLE THE CREDIT CARDS......................UNTIL the long list of CREDIT CARDS END...............and it all tumbles to the ground...................and we are done.........

Well, I prefer to remain optimistic. I think both major parties need to be kicked to the curb, TBH. We need some good 3rd party candidates who haven't sold out to their party politics.

 

[eagle1462010]

Time to educate you idiots on greece:

We should be clear: almost none of the huge amount of money loaned to Greece has actually gone there. It has gone to pay out private-sector creditors – including German and French banks. Greece has gotten but a pittance, but it has paid a high price to preserve these countries’ banking systems. The IMF and the other “official” creditors do not need the money that is being demanded. Under a business-as-usual scenario, the money received would most likely just be lent out again to Greece. Joseph Stiglitz how I would vote in the Greek referendum Business The Guardian

A recent study by the Greek economist Yiannis Mouzakis, based on European Commission review documents, IMF evaluation reports and Greek government budget documents, revealed that only 27 billion euros – a meagre 11 per cent of the total funding – were used for the Greek state’s operating needs. Which squares with the fact that the Greek government, as a result of the brutal belt-tightening imposed by the troika, has been running a primary surplus (i.e., its revenues have exceeded expenses) since 2013.

What about the rest of the money? Well, it went to the country’s banks and foreign creditors, mostly French and German banks. In other words, more than 80 per cent of the bailout funds were used to bail out, either directly or indirectly, the financial sector (both Greek and foreign) – not the Greek state. In the process, the overwhelming majority of Greek government debt was shifted from the private sector to the public sector, with other eurozone governments now liable for around 65 per cent of Greece’s debt (and another 20 per cent in the hands of the ECB and IMF).

Why has greece been troubled?

Tax evasion by the rich, Goldman Sachs helped hide the extent of government debt, both of which became unsustainable when the 2008/2009 crisis hit and state revenues dried up.

aka They took out loans to pay the loans that were created before the crash ever happened. Before the Crash they were already at 100% of their GDP in debt already. The crash hurt every nation.............but it hurts those with economies already in the dump even more. Especially to a country that offered up to it's people hoopla of early retirement and pixies.............with no way in hell of paying for it..................They should have cut to the bone even before the crash and even sold off assets back then to ensure solvency..................

They just tried to have a fire sale..........they went around the region trying to sell anything they could think of and nobody bought a thing.

When the EU was formed I was against it................even though I'm not from Europe. I said it sells your Sovereignty to a foreign entity who will later use this power to set policy for your own country. It also causes the strong to go downc because of the actions of the weak. Each country should rise or fall on their own, and had Greece done so it would have just increased the circulation of it's currency and or attempted bond sells on the world market..............aka purposely deflate the value of its currency to stay afloat............but too much of that and people stop buying the currency or it turns into toilet paper, but at least Greece wouldn't have anybody else to blame but themselves.........and would only beholding to themselves to get out of the mess of their creation.

Yeah, that's what happens when you get ideologues running the show who really don't know anything about how to balance a budget. They seem to think money grows on trees!

Kind of like our government . . . "I know! Let's just print more money!" Lol!

Our GRAND ILLUSION is coming..............there is no stopping it anymore............we are in too deep.............
No one in our Gov't has the guts to do what is necessary...........and so we JUGGLE THE CREDIT CARDS......................UNTIL the long list of CREDIT CARDS END...............and it all tumbles to the ground...................and we are done.........

Well, I prefer to remain optimistic. I think both major parties need to be kicked to the curb, TBH. We need some good 3rd party candidates who haven't sold out to their party politics.

Hope your right but my opinion is that America embraces the Grand Illusion........................
I believe the way the world is going........................we will see this impact next year............
The writing is on the wall................if we choose to look.................

But did you here what Oprah said today...............the Rebel flag...............Idol........etc.................

Our country is delusional..................and there will be HELL TO PAY for it...........

 

[ChrisL]

Time to educate you idiots on greece:
Why has greece been troubled?

aka They took out loans to pay the loans that were created before the crash ever happened. Before the Crash they were already at 100% of their GDP in debt already. The crash hurt every nation.............but it hurts those with economies already in the dump even more. Especially to a country that offered up to it's people hoopla of early retirement and pixies.............with no way in hell of paying for it..................They should have cut to the bone even before the crash and even sold off assets back then to ensure solvency..................

They just tried to have a fire sale..........they went around the region trying to sell anything they could think of and nobody bought a thing.

When the EU was formed I was against it................even though I'm not from Europe. I said it sells your Sovereignty to a foreign entity who will later use this power to set policy for your own country. It also causes the strong to go downc because of the actions of the weak. Each country should rise or fall on their own, and had Greece done so it would have just increased the circulation of it's currency and or attempted bond sells on the world market..............aka purposely deflate the value of its currency to stay afloat............but too much of that and people stop buying the currency or it turns into toilet paper, but at least Greece wouldn't have anybody else to blame but themselves.........and would only beholding to themselves to get out of the mess of their creation.

Yeah, that's what happens when you get ideologues running the show who really don't know anything about how to balance a budget. They seem to think money grows on trees!

Kind of like our government . . . "I know! Let's just print more money!" Lol!

Our GRAND ILLUSION is coming..............there is no stopping it anymore............we are in too deep.............
No one in our Gov't has the guts to do what is necessary...........and so we JUGGLE THE CREDIT CARDS......................UNTIL the long list of CREDIT CARDS END...............and it all tumbles to the ground...................and we are done.........

Well, I prefer to remain optimistic. I think both major parties need to be kicked to the curb, TBH. We need some good 3rd party candidates who haven't sold out to their party politics.

Hope your right but my opinion is that America embraces the Grand Illusion........................
I believe the way the world is going........................we will see this impact next year............
The writing is on the wall................if we choose to look.................

But did you here what Oprah said today...............the Rebel flag...............Idol........etc.................

Our country is delusional..................and there will be HELL TO PAY for it...........

Well thankfully, Oprah is not running for public office. Yes, there are a lot of naive people, but there are intelligent people too. I think the problems our country faces are mostly due to party politics, putting party before country, trying to please a base even though it may not be a good idea just for votes.

Another good thing to do would be to put limits on the amount of money a candidate is allowed to spend on his/her campaign. This would level off the playing field and give other lesser known candidates an equal chance to get his or her name out there.

 

[Zander]

If only they invested more in infrastructure and gave their consumers money...

if only

What's coming will be called a "bail in" which means the banks will seize their customers' accounts to keep from collapsing....

Greece is a disaster but they probably will not do a "bail in". . The EU (essentially the Germans) got lucky in Cypress- they held the Cypriots feet to the fire and the Cypriot bankers did a "bail-in" (essentially punishing savers and investors by stealing their money) so they could pay back their EU creditors and remain in the EU. Remaining in the EU was very important to party in power in Cypress.

Greece, by contrast, is telling the Germans -NEIN!! They will not do a "bail-in" and they will not pay back the money in Euro's. Their logic is simple (and wrong!) - You knew we were a bad credit risk and still lent us the money, so tough shit for you. The other issue with Greece is the Syriza party are Euro Skeptics. They don't care if they remain in the EU.

The Greek train wreck is the first of many to come. Next up are : Spain, Portugal, Italy, Ireland....... The EU will fail, it's no longer a question of "if", but "when".

 

[eagle1462010]

aka They took out loans to pay the loans that were created before the crash ever happened. Before the Crash they were already at 100% of their GDP in debt already. The crash hurt every nation.............but it hurts those with economies already in the dump even more. Especially to a country that offered up to it's people hoopla of early retirement and pixies.............with no way in hell of paying for it..................They should have cut to the bone even before the crash and even sold off assets back then to ensure solvency..................

They just tried to have a fire sale..........they went around the region trying to sell anything they could think of and nobody bought a thing.

When the EU was formed I was against it................even though I'm not from Europe. I said it sells your Sovereignty to a foreign entity who will later use this power to set policy for your own country. It also causes the strong to go downc because of the actions of the weak. Each country should rise or fall on their own, and had Greece done so it would have just increased the circulation of it's currency and or attempted bond sells on the world market..............aka purposely deflate the value of its currency to stay afloat............but too much of that and people stop buying the currency or it turns into toilet paper, but at least Greece wouldn't have anybody else to blame but themselves.........and would only beholding to themselves to get out of the mess of their creation.

Yeah, that's what happens when you get ideologues running the show who really don't know anything about how to balance a budget. They seem to think money grows on trees!

Kind of like our government . . . "I know! Let's just print more money!" Lol!

Our GRAND ILLUSION is coming..............there is no stopping it anymore............we are in too deep.............
No one in our Gov't has the guts to do what is necessary...........and so we JUGGLE THE CREDIT CARDS......................UNTIL the long list of CREDIT CARDS END...............and it all tumbles to the ground...................and we are done.........

Well, I prefer to remain optimistic. I think both major parties need to be kicked to the curb, TBH. We need some good 3rd party candidates who haven't sold out to their party politics.

Hope your right but my opinion is that America embraces the Grand Illusion........................
I believe the way the world is going........................we will see this impact next year............
The writing is on the wall................if we choose to look.................

But did you here what Oprah said today...............the Rebel flag...............Idol........etc.................

Our country is delusional..................and there will be HELL TO PAY for it...........

Well thankfully, Oprah is not running for public office. Yes, there are a lot of naive people, but there are intelligent people too. I think the problems our country faces are mostly due to party politics, putting party before country, trying to please a base even though it may not be a good idea just for votes.

Another good thing to do would be to put limits on the amount of money a candidate is allowed to spend on his/her campaign. This would level off the playing field and give other lesser known candidates an equal chance to get his or her name out there.

That all is nice Chris.............there are solutions............but nobody is listening............the average american just doesn't get it.............and they........like Greece are waiting to get their share of the Gov't dole.............so they can't be swayed anyway..............

And as our debt grows..................we are running out, IF NOT OUT OF....................TIME...............

Hope your right and I'm wrong...................I hope to hell I'm WRONG...........because I've never wanted to so wrong about a subject in my entire life.

 

[ChrisL]

Yeah, that's what happens when you get ideologues running the show who really don't know anything about how to balance a budget. They seem to think money grows on trees!

Kind of like our government . . . "I know! Let's just print more money!" Lol!

Our GRAND ILLUSION is coming..............there is no stopping it anymore............we are in too deep.............
No one in our Gov't has the guts to do what is necessary...........and so we JUGGLE THE CREDIT CARDS......................UNTIL the long list of CREDIT CARDS END...............and it all tumbles to the ground...................and we are done.........

Well, I prefer to remain optimistic. I think both major parties need to be kicked to the curb, TBH. We need some good 3rd party candidates who haven't sold out to their party politics.

Hope your right but my opinion is that America embraces the Grand Illusion........................
I believe the way the world is going........................we will see this impact next year............
The writing is on the wall................if we choose to look.................

But did you here what Oprah said today...............the Rebel flag...............Idol........etc.................

Our country is delusional..................and there will be HELL TO PAY for it...........

Well thankfully, Oprah is not running for public office. Yes, there are a lot of naive people, but there are intelligent people too. I think the problems our country faces are mostly due to party politics, putting party before country, trying to please a base even though it may not be a good idea just for votes.

Another good thing to do would be to put limits on the amount of money a candidate is allowed to spend on his/her campaign. This would level off the playing field and give other lesser known candidates an equal chance to get his or her name out there.

That all is nice Chris.............there are solutions............but nobody is listening............the average american just doesn't get it.............and they........like Greece are waiting to get their share of the Gov't dole.............so they can't be swayed anyway..............

And as our debt grows..................we are running out, IF NOT OUT OF....................TIME...............

Hope your right and I'm wrong...................I hope to hell I'm WRONG...........because I've never wanted to so wrong about a subject in my entire life.

There is plenty of wasteful spending and redundant government agencies that could be eliminated. The government needs to streamline it's agencies. They need to stop funding silly "studies" too.

Read this. Seriously, read it.

Wasteful Spending List Congressman Bill Posey Representing the 8th District of Florida

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Time to educate you idiots on greece:

We should be clear: almost none of the huge amount of money loaned to Greece has actually gone there. It has gone to pay out private-sector creditors – including German and French banks. Greece has gotten but a pittance, but it has paid a high price to preserve these countries’ banking systems. The IMF and the other “official” creditors do not need the money that is being demanded. Under a business-as-usual scenario, the money received would most likely just be lent out again to Greece. Joseph Stiglitz how I would vote in the Greek referendum Business The Guardian

A recent study by the Greek economist Yiannis Mouzakis, based on European Commission review documents, IMF evaluation reports and Greek government budget documents, revealed that only 27 billion euros – a meagre 11 per cent of the total funding – were used for the Greek state’s operating needs. Which squares with the fact that the Greek government, as a result of the brutal belt-tightening imposed by the troika, has been running a primary surplus (i.e., its revenues have exceeded expenses) since 2013.

What about the rest of the money? Well, it went to the country’s banks and foreign creditors, mostly French and German banks. In other words, more than 80 per cent of the bailout funds were used to bail out, either directly or indirectly, the financial sector (both Greek and foreign) – not the Greek state. In the process, the overwhelming majority of Greek government debt was shifted from the private sector to the public sector, with other eurozone governments now liable for around 65 per cent of Greece’s debt (and another 20 per cent in the hands of the ECB and IMF).

Why has greece been troubled?

Tax evasion by the rich, Goldman Sachs helped hide the extent of government debt, both of which became unsustainable when the 2008/2009 crisis hit and state revenues dried up.

Why has greece been troubled?

Might be related to the government spending almost 60% of GDP.

 

[Zander]

Time to educate you idiots on greece:

We should be clear: almost none of the huge amount of money loaned to Greece has actually gone there. It has gone to pay out private-sector creditors – including German and French banks. Greece has gotten but a pittance, but it has paid a high price to preserve these countries’ banking systems. The IMF and the other “official” creditors do not need the money that is being demanded. Under a business-as-usual scenario, the money received would most likely just be lent out again to Greece. Joseph Stiglitz how I would vote in the Greek referendum Business The Guardian

A recent study by the Greek economist Yiannis Mouzakis, based on European Commission review documents, IMF evaluation reports and Greek government budget documents, revealed that only 27 billion euros – a meagre 11 per cent of the total funding – were used for the Greek state’s operating needs. Which squares with the fact that the Greek government, as a result of the brutal belt-tightening imposed by the troika, has been running a primary surplus (i.e., its revenues have exceeded expenses) since 2013.

What about the rest of the money? Well, it went to the country’s banks and foreign creditors, mostly French and German banks. In other words, more than 80 per cent of the bailout funds were used to bail out, either directly or indirectly, the financial sector (both Greek and foreign) – not the Greek state. In the process, the overwhelming majority of Greek government debt was shifted from the private sector to the public sector, with other eurozone governments now liable for around 65 per cent of Greece’s debt (and another 20 per cent in the hands of the ECB and IMF).

Why has greece been troubled?

Tax evasion by the rich, Goldman Sachs helped hide the extent of government debt, both of which became unsustainable when the 2008/2009 crisis hit and state revenues dried up.

Why has greece been troubled?

Might be related to the government spending almost 60% of GDP.

If only they had reached 100%,THEN they would have been OK.

 

[eagle1462010]

Our GRAND ILLUSION is coming..............there is no stopping it anymore............we are in too deep.............
No one in our Gov't has the guts to do what is necessary...........and so we JUGGLE THE CREDIT CARDS......................UNTIL the long list of CREDIT CARDS END...............and it all tumbles to the ground...................and we are done.........

Well, I prefer to remain optimistic. I think both major parties need to be kicked to the curb, TBH. We need some good 3rd party candidates who haven't sold out to their party politics.

Hope your right but my opinion is that America embraces the Grand Illusion........................
I believe the way the world is going........................we will see this impact next year............
The writing is on the wall................if we choose to look.................

But did you here what Oprah said today...............the Rebel flag...............Idol........etc.................

Our country is delusional..................and there will be HELL TO PAY for it...........

Well thankfully, Oprah is not running for public office. Yes, there are a lot of naive people, but there are intelligent people too. I think the problems our country faces are mostly due to party politics, putting party before country, trying to please a base even though it may not be a good idea just for votes.

Another good thing to do would be to put limits on the amount of money a candidate is allowed to spend on his/her campaign. This would level off the playing field and give other lesser known candidates an equal chance to get his or her name out there.

That all is nice Chris.............there are solutions............but nobody is listening............the average american just doesn't get it.............and they........like Greece are waiting to get their share of the Gov't dole.............so they can't be swayed anyway..............

And as our debt grows..................we are running out, IF NOT OUT OF....................TIME...............

Hope your right and I'm wrong...................I hope to hell I'm WRONG...........because I've never wanted to so wrong about a subject in my entire life.

There is plenty of wasteful spending and redundant government agencies that could be eliminated. The government needs to streamline it's agencies. They need to stop funding silly "studies" too.

Read this. Seriously, read it.

Wasteful Spending List Congressman Bill Posey Representing the 8th District of Florida

I've been posting similar stuff for a long time..........Tom Coburn's Wastebook..........

Sen. Tom Coburn s 2014 Wastebook