Government Healthcare Disaster in UK

[rightwinger]

It comes out of neighbor pocket too, therefore he IS entitled for those services.

It would be the same with healthcare. Some would receive more than they pay in, some would receie less.
Same way it works with insurace companies

It would be the same if everyone is paying in. We both know that is not the case here.

Everyone does not pay in for fire protection either....but all are protected

Why the obsession with poor people? Don't they have it bad enough as it is? So what if they don't pay in for healthcare? Does this mean they deserve to suffer if they get sick or injured? Look at the working poor, barely making enough for food and housing for their family...throw a $15,000 medical bill at them and see what it does to them.

 

[Neotrotsky]

It would be the same with healthcare. Some would receive more than they pay in, some would receie less.
Same way it works with insurace companies

It would be the same if everyone is paying in. We both know that is not the case here.

Everyone does not pay in for fire protection either....but all are protected

Why the obsession with poor people? Don't they have it bad enough as it is? So what if they don't pay in for healthcare? Does this mean they deserve to suffer if they get sick or injured? Look at the working poor, barely making enough for food and housing for their family...throw a $15,000 medical bill at them and see what it does to them.

In NY, they, "working poor" are covered already by the system

So a $15,000 medical bill does nothing to "them"

Try another story- like Rep Slaughter (NY) and her story at the summit of a woman who couldn’t afford her own dentures, and so had to use a second-hand set from her deceased sister.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkJByadebXY"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkJByadebXY[/ame]

Oh wait, Papa Obama care won't cover dental anyway
Liberals really need better fake tales to get this boondoggle passed



Try the Pelosi story that this is a jobs bill
I am still laughing at that one


Of course, since the majority of Americans are happy with their health care, the left is constantly making up bogus stories. But, please make up ones that at least sound like they can work

So your dilemma is understood

 

[Ame®icano]

It would be the same with healthcare. Some would receive more than they pay in, some would receie less.
Same way it works with insurace companies

It would be the same if everyone is paying in. We both know that is not the case here.

Everyone does not pay in for fire protection either....but all are protected

Why the obsession with poor people? Don't they have it bad enough as it is? So what if they don't pay in for healthcare? Does this mean they deserve to suffer if they get sick or injured? Look at the working poor, barely making enough for food and housing for their family...throw a $15,000 medical bill at them and see what it does to them.

@ bold - I can't blame you for not knowing. Everyone is paying for fire protection thru the city/property taxes. If you rent the property, you still pay for it thru the rent, since your renter is paying property taxes.

@ rest - Here is an example from place I work for. They offer health insurance and possibility to opt out from it. Those who opt out are getting close to $100 more on their paycheck. Some of those are insured thru their spouses, some of them are taking risk of being uninsured, mostly young people and without families. They chose $100 on their paycheck over being insured, so why should be my problem if they get sick? They made their choice, let them live with it.

 

[rightwinger]

It would be the same if everyone is paying in. We both know that is not the case here.

Everyone does not pay in for fire protection either....but all are protected

Why the obsession with poor people? Don't they have it bad enough as it is? So what if they don't pay in for healthcare? Does this mean they deserve to suffer if they get sick or injured? Look at the working poor, barely making enough for food and housing for their family...throw a $15,000 medical bill at them and see what it does to them.

@ bold - I can't blame you for not knowing. Everyone is paying for fire protection thru the city/property taxes. If you rent the property, you still pay for it thru the rent, since your renter is paying property taxes.

@ rest - Here is an example from place I work for. They offer health insurance and possibility to opt out from it. Those who opt out are getting close to $100 more on their paycheck. Some of those are insured thru their spouses, some of them are taking risk of being uninsured, mostly young people and without families. They chose $100 on their paycheck over being insured, so why should be my problem if they get sick? They made their choice, let them live with it.

Come on...we are talking about the GOPs favorite class here...the poor people...the ones who can't afford healthcare. Their rent is subsidised by the government. So they really receive "free" fire protection and free school while they are at it.

The problem with your opting out is just why we need everyone to be covered. People should not have to play craps with their life

 

[Ame®icano]

Everyone does not pay in for fire protection either....but all are protected

Why the obsession with poor people? Don't they have it bad enough as it is? So what if they don't pay in for healthcare? Does this mean they deserve to suffer if they get sick or injured? Look at the working poor, barely making enough for food and housing for their family...throw a $15,000 medical bill at them and see what it does to them.

@ bold - I can't blame you for not knowing. Everyone is paying for fire protection thru the city/property taxes. If you rent the property, you still pay for it thru the rent, since your renter is paying property taxes.

@ rest - Here is an example from place I work for. They offer health insurance and possibility to opt out from it. Those who opt out are getting close to $100 more on their paycheck. Some of those are insured thru their spouses, some of them are taking risk of being uninsured, mostly young people and without families. They chose $100 on their paycheck over being insured, so why should be my problem if they get sick? They made their choice, let them live with it.

Come on...we are talking about the GOPs favorite class here...the poor people...the ones who can't afford healthcare. Their rent is subsidised by the government. So they really receive "free" fire protection and free school while they are at it.

The problem with your opting out is just why we need everyone to be covered. People should not have to play craps with their life

Since subsidizing the rent haven't pull them out of their poverty, why do you think subsidizing their healthcare will? More entitlements will just encourage them to stay in poverty.

 

[Rozman]

And the Libs also think Cuba has a better health care system then we do...that sort of tells you something
I hope.

 

[Neotrotsky]

And the Libs also think Cuba has a better health care system then we do...that sort of tells you something
I hope.

And they like to use UN stats based on self reporting from countries like Cuba that report their health care is even better than ours.

Where have we heard this before- oh yes the Soviet Union use to tell the world everything was great in the USSR. We see how true that proved to be

 

[rightwinger]

And the Libs also think Cuba has a better health care system then we do...that sort of tells you something
I hope.

And they like to use UN stats based on self reporting from countries like Cuba that report their health care is even better than ours.

Where have we heard this before- oh yes the Soviet Union use to tell the world everything was great in the USSR. We see how true that proved to be

Once again....please provide a credible independent ranking of healthcare that show the US is better than #37

Do you think the US is in the top 5? Based on what criteria?

 

[Meister]

And the Libs also think Cuba has a better health care system then we do...that sort of tells you something
I hope.

And they like to use UN stats based on self reporting from countries like Cuba that report their health care is even better than ours.

Where have we heard this before- oh yes the Soviet Union use to tell the world everything was great in the USSR. We see how true that proved to be

Once again....please provide a credible independent ranking of healthcare that show the US is better than #37

Do you think the US is in the top 5? Based on what criteria?

I'm waiting for a credible independent ranking that has the same reference point for ALL Until I see that happen, who cares what WHO states

 

[Neotrotsky]

And the Libs also think Cuba has a better health care system then we do...that sort of tells you something
I hope.

And they like to use UN stats based on self reporting from countries like Cuba that report their health care is even better than ours.

Where have we heard this before- oh yes the Soviet Union use to tell the world everything was great in the USSR. We see how true that proved to be

Once again....please provide a credible independent ranking of healthcare that show the US is better than #37

Do you think the US is in the top 5? Based on what criteria?

No your probably right- anyone with brains knows that the Cuban system is better than ours



I did find this interesting article

10 Surprising Facts about American Health Care

Fact No. 1: Americans have better survival rates than Europeans for common cancers.[1] Breast cancer mortality is 52 percent higher in Germany than in the United States, and 88 percent higher in the United Kingdom. Prostate cancer mortality is 604 percent higher in the U.K. and 457 percent higher in Norway. The mortality rate for colorectal cancer among British men and women is about 40 percent higher.

Fact No. 2: Americans have lower cancer mortality rates than Canadians.[2] Breast cancer mortality is 9 percent higher, prostate cancer is 184 percent higher and colon cancer mortality among men is about 10 percent higher than in the United States.

Fact No. 3: Americans have better access to treatment for chronic diseases than patients in other developed countries.[3] Some 56 percent of Americans who could benefit are taking statins, which reduce cholesterol and protect against heart disease. By comparison, of those patients who could benefit from these drugs, only 36 percent of the Dutch, 29 percent of the Swiss, 26 percent of Germans, 23 percent of Britons and 17 percent of Italians receive them.

Fact No. 4: Americans have better access to preventive cancer screening than Canadians.[4] Take the proportion of the appropriate-age population groups who have received recommended tests for breast, cervical, prostate and colon cancer:

Nine of 10 middle-aged American women (89 percent) have had a mammogram, compared to less than three-fourths of Canadians (72 percent).

Nearly all American women (96 percent) have had a pap smear, compared to less than 90 percent of Canadians.

More than half of American men (54 percent) have had a PSA test, compared to less than 1 in 6 Canadians (16 percent).

Nearly one-third of Americans (30 percent) have had a colonoscopy, compared with less than 1 in 20 Canadians (5 percent).

Fact No. 5: Lower income Americans are in better health than comparable Canadians. Twice as many American seniors with below-median incomes self-report "excellent" health compared to Canadian seniors (11.7 percent versus 5.8 percent). Conversely, white Canadian young adults with below-median incomes are 20 percent more likely than lower income Americans to describe their health as "fair or poor."[5]


see rest click here
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I noticed you left out these links from the prior post; must have been an oversight



World Health Organization ranking biased, not reliable

WHO’s FoolingWho? TheWorld Health Organization’s Problematic Ranking of Health Care Systems

 

[Political Junky]

You're using WHO rankings which are biased towards socialist countries?

Yea.....With a little work the US can beat out Costa Rica

US has much better healthcare than Costa Rica and you know it.

Tell us how you know that the US has better health care than Costa Rica?

 

[The T]

And they like to use UN stats based on self reporting from countries like Cuba that report their health care is even better than ours.

Where have we heard this before- oh yes the Soviet Union use to tell the world everything was great in the USSR. We see how true that proved to be

Once again....please provide a credible independent ranking of healthcare that show the US is better than #37

Do you think the US is in the top 5? Based on what criteria?

No your probably right- anyone with brains knows that the Cuban system is better than ours



I did find this interesting article

10 Surprising Facts about American Health Care

Fact No. 1: Americans have better survival rates than Europeans for common cancers.[1] Breast cancer mortality is 52 percent higher in Germany than in the United States, and 88 percent higher in the United Kingdom. Prostate cancer mortality is 604 percent higher in the U.K. and 457 percent higher in Norway. The mortality rate for colorectal cancer among British men and women is about 40 percent higher.

Fact No. 2: Americans have lower cancer mortality rates than Canadians.[2] Breast cancer mortality is 9 percent higher, prostate cancer is 184 percent higher and colon cancer mortality among men is about 10 percent higher than in the United States.

Fact No. 3: Americans have better access to treatment for chronic diseases than patients in other developed countries.[3] Some 56 percent of Americans who could benefit are taking statins, which reduce cholesterol and protect against heart disease. By comparison, of those patients who could benefit from these drugs, only 36 percent of the Dutch, 29 percent of the Swiss, 26 percent of Germans, 23 percent of Britons and 17 percent of Italians receive them.

Fact No. 4: Americans have better access to preventive cancer screening than Canadians.[4] Take the proportion of the appropriate-age population groups who have received recommended tests for breast, cervical, prostate and colon cancer:

Nine of 10 middle-aged American women (89 percent) have had a mammogram, compared to less than three-fourths of Canadians (72 percent).

Nearly all American women (96 percent) have had a pap smear, compared to less than 90 percent of Canadians.

More than half of American men (54 percent) have had a PSA test, compared to less than 1 in 6 Canadians (16 percent).

Nearly one-third of Americans (30 percent) have had a colonoscopy, compared with less than 1 in 20 Canadians (5 percent).

Fact No. 5: Lower income Americans are in better health than comparable Canadians. Twice as many American seniors with below-median incomes self-report "excellent" health compared to Canadian seniors (11.7 percent versus 5.8 percent). Conversely, white Canadian young adults with below-median incomes are 20 percent more likely than lower income Americans to describe their health as "fair or poor."[5]


see rest click here
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I noticed you left out these links from the prior post; must have been an oversight



World Health Organization ranking biased, not reliable

WHO’s FoolingWho? TheWorld Health Organization’s Problematic Ranking of Health Care Systems

And HOW ABOUT THAT CUBAN FREE ENTERPRISE SYSTEM?

All that is New an approved BY the Prolitariat with a beard? Bravo!

 

[Political Junky]

The World Health Organization's ranking of the world's health systems

UK ranked 18

US ranked 37

How about you go to Singapore ( #6 ) the next time you need major surgery ?

Hell spray graffiti on a few walls while you're there, fuckin dope ........

You are aware that medical tourism is very big business, aren't you?

 

[Political Junky]

U.S. Health Care Costs:*Background Brief

So government is going to step in and reduce costs........

Yes, just as Medicare has a miniscule profit margin compared to private insurance.

 

[Neotrotsky]

Yea.....With a little work the US can beat out Costa Rica

US has much better healthcare than Costa Rica and you know it.

Tell us how you know that the US has better health care than Costa Rica?

Because the UN tells him so

 

[Neotrotsky]

U.S. Health Care Costs:*Background Brief

So government is going to step in and reduce costs........

Yes, just as Medicare has a miniscule profit margin compared to private insurance.

Private insurance has a minuscule profit compared to other industries (beverages have larger profit margin)

US NEWS: Why Health Insurers Make Lousy Villains

Overall, the profit margin for health insurance companies was a modest 3.4 percent over the past year, according to data provided by Morningstar. That ranks 87th out of 215 industries and slightly above the median of 2.2 percent. By this measure, the most profitable industry over the past year has been beverages, with a 25.9 percent profit margin. Right behind that were healthcare real-estate trusts (firms that are basically the landlords for hospitals and healthcare facilities) and application-software (think Windows). The worst performer was copper, with a profit margin of minus 56.6 percent.

 

[Political Junky]

The World Health Organization's ranking of the world's health systems

UK ranked 18

US ranked 37

Someone fisked the heck out of this a while ago. The numbers just don't jibe with reality.

Actual quality of care was only one of the measures. That is, you go in, see a doctor who fixes your problem, and go home. And it was weighted very low.

equality of care for all persons, even if the quality itself was pathetic, as is the case in Cuba, was valued higher. So if your health care system didn't do squat for anyone, but everyone suffered pretty much the same way, it gave you a higher ranking than if some folks got very well, some folks did pretty good, some folks did alright, and a small minority got the crumbs off the table, even if the ones who got the crumbs off the table got better care than anybody in the more equal society.

As the saying goes, figures don't like, but liars figure.

Wow, you base your belief on something that someone said awhile ago?

 

[Neotrotsky]

The World Health Organization's ranking of the world's health systems

UK ranked 18

US ranked 37

Someone fisked the heck out of this a while ago. The numbers just don't jibe with reality.

Actual quality of care was only one of the measures. That is, you go in, see a doctor who fixes your problem, and go home. And it was weighted very low.

equality of care for all persons, even if the quality itself was pathetic, as is the case in Cuba, was valued higher. So if your health care system didn't do squat for anyone, but everyone suffered pretty much the same way, it gave you a higher ranking than if some folks got very well, some folks did pretty good, some folks did alright, and a small minority got the crumbs off the table, even if the ones who got the crumbs off the table got better care than anybody in the more equal society.

As the saying goes, figures don't like, but liars figure.

Wow, you base your belief on something that someone said awhile ago?

No of course not. In the UN system two countries equal in everything but one has socialist medicine- is weighted in their favor and they get a higher rating.

Makes sense to me, everyone knows the Cuban system is better than ours

 

[Political Junky]

How about you go to Singapore ( #6 ) the next time you need major surgery ?

Hell spray graffiti on a few walls while you're there, fuckin dope ........

Many Americans already do to obtain affordable healthcare

Medical Tourism Singapore - Discover Medical Tourism


Since Singapore’s prices are still around half of what US clinics charge for the same procedures, it’s understandable that some 200,000 visitors flock here every year in search of medical, cosmetic and dental treatment. A reputation for state-of-the-art equipment and the finest surgeons, many of which are trained in the US, is also a major draw card for many would-be patients.

Americans don't go to Singapore for medical treatment, thanks..........

Of course Americans do go to Singapore, as well as India, Costa Rica, and many others.

 

[Neotrotsky]

Many Americans already do to obtain affordable healthcare

Medical Tourism Singapore - Discover Medical Tourism


Since Singapore’s prices are still around half of what US clinics charge for the same procedures, it’s understandable that some 200,000 visitors flock here every year in search of medical, cosmetic and dental treatment. A reputation for state-of-the-art equipment and the finest surgeons, many of which are trained in the US, is also a major draw card for many would-be patients.

Americans don't go to Singapore for medical treatment, thanks..........

Of course Americans do go to Singapore, as well as India, Costa Rica, and many others.

Sure, a lot of it elective.

Just like Danny Williams the Canadian Provincial Premier (the equivalent of a Governor) who came to the U.S. for a heart procedure..

Funny, does not Canada have a single payer system ?


They scored higher in the UN reports as well

Funny how that works