"GOP, the elite's Party"

[midcan5]

"It's the Stupidity, Stupid!" by Solomon Hakim

"The elite, the most powerful, influential, and wealthy individuals among us, have essentially succeeded in creating the most important element in sustaining their perpetual control: eternally loyal, anti-thinking, slave-followers, fundamentally hostile to any kind of meaningful thought, perhaps as much as eighty percent of the world's population. For the purposes of keeping this article short enough for publication, my comments here are limited to Americans.

That half of you Americans are considering voting for a ticket whose VP candidate supports creationism, in this 2008, who opposes abortions even in the case of rape or incest, and who has literally boasted of her foreign experience primarily because Russia shares a border with her state, simply boggles the mind. Yes, let's forget Reason, forget common sense, forget science, forget critical thought which without progression, technology, modern civilization, wouldn't exist, and let's vote for a creationist! And a female one to boot! Your cant is beyond frightening. If Hockey Mom's values are that precious to your hearts, or if it's her gender that blows your whistle that much, why do you even bother, for example, going to the doctor when your kid is sick? Just go to church or a feminist group meeting instead! You stupid seventy million plus neurologically diseased Baptist Americans! Even God Himself would struggle to make you see! Didn't Jesus profess that truth is better than untruth? How is it that you care so little about wisdom, about truth, about humaneness, about the most meaningful values there can be in this life? Is it because you are simply awaiting, as your Holy Bible describes, the next one? Do us agnostics a favor and take the trip already!"

It's the Stupidity, Stupid! | CommonDreams.org

 

[Bern80]

An article written by someone who wreaks of elitism complaining about elitists.....interesting to say the least.

 

[editec]

It cracks me up that now the word elite has become an insult.

You people are fucking sheep.

 

[AllieBaba]

That half of you Americans are considering voting for a ticket whose VP candidate supports creationism, in this 2008, who opposes abortions even in the case of rape or incest, and who has literally boasted of her foreign experience primarily because Russia shares a border with her state, simply boggles the mind.

Yes, that's why we love her.

 

[Gem]

It cracks me up that people on the left have become so intellectually dishonest that they will pretend a word like elitism is being used to discuss elite individuals...when anyone with half a functioning brain understands the difference.

I assume you have half a functioning brain, editec and midcan...so therefore I have to assume that you are acting as partisan hacks in this particular incident.

Everyone understands that being elite in something is a good thing. We all want, as your talking points have been saying ad nauseum...an elite surgeon, an elite mechanic, an elite politician.

What we do not want...is someone who is NOT elite...but who pretends that they are and pretends that because they possess some intangible qualities that the rest of us do not---that they are better than us...and therefore know better than we do, how to make decisions for this nation.
THAT is elitist.

No one wants a so-so mechanic who claims to be the best. Thats even WORSE than a so-so mechanic who is up front about not being the best. The ELITIST mechanic will charge you just as much as an ELITE mechanic...but will only deliver so-so service.

That is the way that word is being used. No one is claming that Obama is an elite politician and that that is somehow a bad thing. What they ARE claiming is that Barak Obama THINKS he is better than the rest of us, and feels that he knows better than anyone else how to make important decisions regarding our nation based on some intangible qualities that he alone posesses.

Now...you can agree or disagree with whether or not Obama is elitist...that actually isn't the issue.

But PLEASE, grow up and stop using bullshit talking points about people being "afraid of the elite." That isn't what people are saying...that isn't the way the term "elitism" is being used....and you just look like a parrot for the left when you come in here screeching about it in such a juvenille manor.

 

[AllieBaba]

I've made that argument a hundred times. Now I just scream YOU FUCKING IDIOT THE ELITES AND ELITISTS ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS.

Dictionary.com
"Elitism".

But apparently they never bother to look it up.
Because ultimately, they don't care that they're spewing idiotic crap that doesn't even make sense.

 

[Gem]

The problem is...it would be one thing if it were a genuine misunderstanding...if those on the left genuinely believed that what people were complaining about was truly that they did not want to be led by "the elite."

But everyone knows that this isn't what is being discussed...and those on the left, like Bill Maher and so many like him (even those on this board) are simply parroting a ridiculous talking point because its kinda funny and makes them feel good about themselves because they are basically calling their opposition stupid...which they love to do. It isn't that people can have a difference in opinion about what might be the best way to run this nation...its that those who disagree are bitter, gun-hugging, god-fearing idiots who don't want a member of the "elite" in the White House.

Its so dishonest...and so ridiculously harmful to intelligent discourse that it would be scary if it wasn't so sad.

 

[AVG-JOE]

It cracks me up that now the word elite has become an insult.

You people are fucking sheep.

I did not have sexual relations with ewe!

-Joe

 

[Skull Pilot]

The problem is...it would be one thing if it were a genuine misunderstanding...if those on the left genuinely believed that what people were complaining about was truly that they did not want to be led by "the elite."

But everyone knows that this isn't what is being discussed...and those on the left, like Bill Maher and so many like him (even those on this board) are simply parroting a ridiculous talking point because its kinda funny and makes them feel good about themselves because they are basically calling their opposition stupid...which they love to do. It isn't that people can have a difference in opinion about what might be the best way to run this nation...its that those who disagree are bitter, gun-hugging, god-fearing idiots who don't want a member of the "elite" in the White House.

Its so dishonest...and so ridiculously harmful to intelligent discourse that it would be scary if it wasn't so sad.

elite is a very good adjective if it is used to describe something useful. Putting such a good word as "elite" in front of "politician" is a horrible use of such a wonderful adjective.

 

[Larkinn]

It cracks me up that people on the left have become so intellectually dishonest that they will pretend a word like elitism is being used to discuss elite individuals...when anyone with half a functioning brain understands the difference.

I assume you have half a functioning brain, editec and midcan...so therefore I have to assume that you are acting as partisan hacks in this particular incident.

Everyone understands that being elite in something is a good thing. We all want, as your talking points have been saying ad nauseum...an elite surgeon, an elite mechanic, an elite politician.

Its not the left that is conflating them when going to Harvard Law School is suddenly a "sign of elitism". Going to HLS is a sign that your pretty fucking smart, not of "elitism".

What we do not want...is someone who is NOT elite...but who pretends that they are and pretends that because they possess some intangible qualities that the rest of us do not---that they are better than us...and therefore know better than we do, how to make decisions for this nation.
THAT is elitist.

Except that when people call Obama elite, thats not the evidence they give.

That is the way that word is being used. No one is claming that Obama is an elite politician and that that is somehow a bad thing. What they ARE claiming is that Barak Obama THINKS he is better than the rest of us, and feels that he knows better than anyone else how to make important decisions regarding our nation based on some intangible qualities that he alone posesses.

Except the "evidence" for these things is the evidence one would give that someone is actually elite. That is, very successful, went to extremely difficult schools, etc, etc.

Now...you can agree or disagree with whether or not Obama is elitist...that actually isn't the issue.

But PLEASE, grow up and stop using bullshit talking points about people being "afraid of the elite." That isn't what people are saying...that isn't the way the term "elitism" is being used....and you just look like a parrot for the left when you come in here screeching about it in such a juvenille manor.

Actually, it IS what people are saying, unfortunately. That they are saying it is fucking ridiculous, as you point out, but thats the statement.

 

[Gem]

I don't know about that....Ben Franklin certainly strikes me as an elite politician.

I do believe that a politician can be good at their job AND be honest...difficult, maybe, but possible.

But the issue at stake here, is people being deliberately obtuse about the difference of meaning between someone being elite, and someone being elitist.

 

[Larkinn]

The problem is...it would be one thing if it were a genuine misunderstanding...if those on the left genuinely believed that what people were complaining about was truly that they did not want to be led by "the elite."

But everyone knows that this isn't what is being discussed...and those on the left, like Bill Maher and so many like him (even those on this board) are simply parroting a ridiculous talking point because its kinda funny and makes them feel good about themselves because they are basically calling their opposition stupid...which they love to do. It isn't that people can have a difference in opinion about what might be the best way to run this nation...its that those who disagree are bitter, gun-hugging, god-fearing idiots who don't want a member of the "elite" in the White House.

Its so dishonest...and so ridiculously harmful to intelligent discourse that it would be scary if it wasn't so sad.

Please don't bullshit about others being dishonest if you are going to purposefully misconstrue Obamas quote. Don't bullshit about how you want a real discussion, you just want to attack the left with this crap about how all these dishonest leftists are doing x and y. When you hear statements like that you know the person isn't interested in real discussion.

 

[Skull Pilot]

I don't know about that....Ben Franklin certainly strikes me as an elite politician.

I do believe that a politician can be good at their job AND be honest...difficult, maybe, but possible.

But the issue at stake here, is people being deliberately obtuse about the difference of meaning between someone being elite, and someone being elitist.

I'll change my stance when we get another Ben Franklin up for election. Until then I will not utter the word "elite" in conjunction with any noun denoting politicians or politics.

 

[Gem]

Larkinn Wrote:

Actually, it IS what people are saying, unfortunately. That they are saying it is fucking ridiculous, as you point out, but thats the statement.

No. You are wrong about this, Larkinn. This is what the Left has chosen to parrot that people are saying...but it simply isn't the case.

No one has stated that Obama being intelligent is a problem...no one has stated that his Harvard degree is unimpressive as a degree.

What people have stated is that a law degree from a prestigious university does not immediately indicate someones competency to be president. Now, you may disagree with that. But just because I stated it does not mean that I am stating that Obama is unintelligent, nor that I am some how afraid of his intelligence.

It means simply what it says. That a law degree from a prestigious university does not immediately indicate that someone will be a competent president.

And it is elitist to claim that it does...because it somehow implies that because he went to a good school - he knows BETTER than others, how to run the nation.

I know plenty of people who went to great schools who don't posess a whit of common sense. And my grandfather, who barely graduated high school and managed to become exec vp in a company whose name we all would recognize...was one of the smartest, most business-savy, common-sense individuals I've ever met. He worked his way up from nothing to provide college-educations for his children and a comfortable life for his family...not to bad for someone without an Ivy-League degree.

Now...I'm not saying that I'm unimpressed with Obama's degree...quite the contrary, its a tough, tough school and Obama is certainly one of the college ELITE...

What still stands as a question however...is what qualifications that education provided him...that make him a better candidate for president.

And to assume simply that because he went to a good school and made it through successfully that he can be President of the US...is elitist.

 

[Larkinn]

Larkinn Wrote:
No. You are wrong about this, Larkinn. This is what the Left has chosen to parrot that people are saying...but it simply isn't the case.

Oh?

No one has stated that Obama being intelligent is a problem...no one has stated that his Harvard degree is unimpressive as a degree.

Yes they have. When I say that he went to HLS as evidence for his intelligence, people say "oh, an elitist liberal institution, that doesn't mean anything".

What people have stated is that a law degree from a prestigious university does not immediately indicate someones competency to be president.

They've stated a lot more than that. Although people don't bother to say that a law degree from HLS does not immediately indicate someones competency to be president. Know why not? Because nobody has ever said that anyone who graduates from HLS is competent to be president. If you didn't notice, Obama has done a few more things than HLS. But head of law review at HLS is a DAMNED impressive thing to do. And it does not make him elitist.

And it is elitist to claim that it does...because it somehow implies that because he went to a good school - he knows BETTER than others, how to run the nation.

Ummm, no, thats not elitist actually. Someone being intelligent (something YOU admitted Obama is, and is proven by HLS) IS more competent than "others" to run the nation. Intelligence IS a qualification for the presidency. HLS proves Obama is intelligent. Intelligence is, obviously, not the only qualification for the presidency, but it is one of them and it is NOT elitist to say so.

I know plenty of people who went to great schools who don't posess a whit of common sense. And my grandfather, who barely graduated high school and managed to become exec vp in a company whose name we all would recognize...was one of the smartest, most business-savy, common-sense individuals I've ever met. He worked his way up from nothing to provide college-educations for his children and a comfortable life for his family...not to bad for someone without an Ivy-League degree.

Nobody is saying that anyone who goes to a "great school" has common sense. But going to a great school does require intelligence, which Obama has. As I said its not the sole qualification, nor does it mean that not going to a great school means you are stupid. But this bullshit about how going to HLS means he is a liberal latte-drinking elitist is fucking ridiculous. You'd recognize that if you didn't get this weird partisan bug up your ass lately.

Now...I'm not saying that I'm unimpressed with Obama's degree...quite the contrary, its a tough, tough school and Obama is certainly one of the college ELITE...

Good job.

What still stands as a question however...is what qualifications that education provided him...that make him a better candidate for president.

Intelligence and Knowledge.

And to assume simply that because he went to a good school and made it through successfully that he can be President of the US...is elitist.

Too bad nobody is saying that. By the way, president of Law Review isn't just "making it through successfully".

And if going to a good school was the only qualification, I could be president. And I am definitely not qualified. In any sense of the word.

 

[newpolitics]

It cracks me up that people on the left have become so intellectually dishonest that they will pretend a word like elitism is being used to discuss elite individuals...when anyone with half a functioning brain understands the difference.

I assume you have half a functioning brain, editec and midcan...so therefore I have to assume that you are acting as partisan hacks in this particular incident.

Everyone understands that being elite in something is a good thing. We all want, as your talking points have been saying ad nauseum...an elite surgeon, an elite mechanic, an elite politician.

What we do not want...is someone who is NOT elite...but who pretends that they are and pretends that because they possess some intangible qualities that the rest of us do not---that they are better than us...and therefore know better than we do, how to make decisions for this nation.
THAT is elitist.

No one wants a so-so mechanic who claims to be the best. Thats even WORSE than a so-so mechanic who is up front about not being the best. The ELITIST mechanic will charge you just as much as an ELITE mechanic...but will only deliver so-so service.

That is the way that word is being used. No one is claming that Obama is an elite politician and that that is somehow a bad thing. What they ARE claiming is that Barak Obama THINKS he is better than the rest of us, and feels that he knows better than anyone else how to make important decisions regarding our nation based on some intangible qualities that he alone posesses.

Now...you can agree or disagree with whether or not Obama is elitist...that actually isn't the issue.

But PLEASE, grow up and stop using bullshit talking points about people being "afraid of the elite." That isn't what people are saying...that isn't the way the term "elitism" is being used....and you just look like a parrot for the left when you come in here screeching about it in such a juvenille manor.

Are you trying to explain nuance? Because, you're not doing a very good job. Do you actually pretend to know what Obama thinks? Maybe he's contending with an ideology that Americans have been eating up for the last 8 years, and talks in a way that makes you uncomfortable, because he's talking to you like an adult, not a little child. Not always appealing to pure emotion, but sticking to facts and revealing the real condition of our country, not some glazed over vision that the republicans try to force on us to make us feel better and hide problems so they don't need to be addressed, like those of the ENTIRE population, not only a select few.

 

[Gem]

Are you trying to explain nuance? Because, you're not doing a very good job.

Good thing I'm not trying to explain nuance then, huh? No, what I'm stating is that there is a difference between someone being "elite" and someone being "elitist." I am stating that most people with a brain understand that difference...and that I am tired of people playing ten games of grab-ass as they pretend they don't understand that difference.

Do you actually pretend to know what Obama thinks?

No, I don't. I haven't contended that I did. And, in fact, it is entirely irrelevant to my point. Why, do YOU know what Obama thinks?

Maybe he's contending with an ideology that Americans have been eating up for the last 8 years, and talks in a way that makes you uncomfortable, because he's talking to you like an adult, not a little child. Not always appealing to pure emotion, but sticking to facts and revealing the real condition of our country, not some glazed over vision that the republicans try to force on us to make us feel better and hide problems so they don't need to be addressed, like those of the ENTIRE population, not only a select few.

Damn...that was some nice partisan drivel...thank you for perfectly illustrating what I mean...some people parrot talking points that they know are untrue or silly...but they like the way they sound. For instance, I think Larkinn knows better...but has a bug up his butt about me calling him and others out on it and expecting better from them.

Then there are people like you...who actually believe that Obama is only talking in "facts" and revealing "the true condition of our country..." lol. And when you're that far in the tank for EITHER candidate...well...there's little hope for you.

Enjoy your unfettered, unconcerned, blind support of your candidate. Since I don't like either candidate, I can't join you...but you certainly have made me chuckle at your blatant disregard of the thread topic in order to state your unceasing support for Obama.

 

[editec]

What we do not want...is someone who is NOT elite...but who pretends that they are and pretends that because they possess some intangible qualities that the rest of us do not---that they are better than us...and therefore know better than we do, how to make decisions for this nation.
THAT is elitist.

I agree with the above...in that circumstance.

But of course one can be an elitist for all the right reasons, too.

One can be an elitist who happens to think that the elite (as in: those most qualified for a task) should be in charge, too

In which case being an elitist is actually quite sensible.

 

[newpolitics]

Good thing I'm not trying to explain nuance then, huh? No, what I'm stating is that there is a difference between someone being "elite" and someone being "elitist." I am stating that most people with a brain understand that difference...and that I am tired of people playing ten games of grab-ass as they pretend they don't understand that difference.



No, I don't. I haven't contended that I did. And, in fact, it is entirely irrelevant to my point. Why, do YOU know what Obama thinks?



Damn...that was some nice partisan drivel...thank you for perfectly illustrating what I mean...some people parrot talking points that they know are untrue or silly...but they like the way they sound. For instance, I think Larkinn knows better...but has a bug up his butt about me calling him and others out on it and expecting better from them.

Then there are people like you...who actually believe that Obama is only talking in "facts" and revealing "the true condition of our country..." lol. And when you're that far in the tank for EITHER candidate...well...there's little hope for you.

Enjoy your unfettered, unconcerned, blind support of your candidate. Since I don't like either candidate, I can't join you...but you certainly have made me chuckle at your blatant disregard of the thread topic in order to state your unceasing support for Obama.

Fair enough...

 

[AllieBaba]

Its not the left that is conflating them when going to Harvard Law School is suddenly a "sign of elitism". Going to HLS is a sign that your pretty fucking smart, not of "elitism".



Except that when people call Obama elite, thats not the evidence they give.



Except the "evidence" for these things is the evidence one would give that someone is actually elite. That is, very successful, went to extremely difficult schools, etc, etc.



Actually, it IS what people are saying, unfortunately. That they are saying it is fucking ridiculous, as you point out, but thats the statement.

People don't call Obama "elite" they call him AN ELITIST.

Because he THINKS HE'S BETTER than other, because he thinks he is held to a different standard, because he thinks he and his buddies have a right to think and do for others, without having to answer to those same people.

Get it?