CDZ GOP please vote per deanrd: Do you oppose Education and Health care? or Federalization of them?

[DandyDonovan]

All I know is that the schools were way better before the Fed started meddling with them.

Yea, for the people who could afford them

Before the federal Dept of Education, people had to pay if they wanted to send their kids to public schools?

 

[DandyDonovan]

deanrd posted in another thread that
GOP oppose Education and Health Care.

If you are GOP will you please vote in the
attached poll, what are you really against?

Education and Health Care?
or
"Federal centralized control" of these
instead of managing choices democratically
by people and states more effectively?

Can we settle this once and for all
what it is that Conservatives/GOP are opposed to?

Thanks!

Some things need to be either socialized or more heavily regulated. Or have a public option for poor or cheap young people

By that logic why wouldn't the government just buy every adult American a brand new electric car every year? If subsidizing things is so great , why stop there? Government TVs..........

 

[sealybobo]

All I know is that the schools were way better before the Fed started meddling with them.

Yea, for the people who could afford them

State K-12 public schools; Silly Boo Boo.

Then why hasn't Betsy ended the department of education? Do it! I would love it.

 

[sealybobo]

deanrd posted in another thread that
GOP oppose Education and Health Care.

If you are GOP will you please vote in the
attached poll, what are you really against?

Education and Health Care?
or
"Federal centralized control" of these
instead of managing choices democratically
by people and states more effectively?

Can we settle this once and for all
what it is that Conservatives/GOP are opposed to?

Thanks!

Some things need to be either socialized or more heavily regulated. Or have a public option for poor or cheap young people

By that logic why wouldn't the government just buy every adult American a brand new electric car every year? If subsidizing things is so great , why stop there? Government TVs..........

Because silly you don't die if you don't have car.

How about this analogy. We should have public transportation if too many Americans can't afford a car. So consider socialized medicine the bus of healthcare. You and I of course would have cadillac plans.

 

[DandyDonovan]

deanrd posted in another thread that
GOP oppose Education and Health Care.

If you are GOP will you please vote in the
attached poll, what are you really against?

Education and Health Care?
or
"Federal centralized control" of these
instead of managing choices democratically
by people and states more effectively?

Can we settle this once and for all
what it is that Conservatives/GOP are opposed to?

Thanks!

Some things need to be either socialized or more heavily regulated. Or have a public option for poor or cheap young people

By that logic why wouldn't the government just buy every adult American a brand new electric car every year? If subsidizing things is so great , why stop there? Government TVs..........

Because silly you don't die if you don't have car.

How about this analogy. We should have public transportation if too many Americans can't afford a car. So consider socialized medicine the bus of healthcare. You and I of course would have cadillac plans.

Who says we should have public transportation (presumably free) if too many Americans can't afford cars?

 

[sealybobo]

deanrd posted in another thread that
GOP oppose Education and Health Care.

If you are GOP will you please vote in the
attached poll, what are you really against?

Education and Health Care?
or
"Federal centralized control" of these
instead of managing choices democratically
by people and states more effectively?

Can we settle this once and for all
what it is that Conservatives/GOP are opposed to?

Thanks!

Some things need to be either socialized or more heavily regulated. Or have a public option for poor or cheap young people

By that logic why wouldn't the government just buy every adult American a brand new electric car every year? If subsidizing things is so great , why stop there? Government TVs..........

Because silly you don't die if you don't have car.

How about this analogy. We should have public transportation if too many Americans can't afford a car. So consider socialized medicine the bus of healthcare. You and I of course would have cadillac plans.

Who says we should have public transportation (presumably free) if too many Americans can't afford cars?

Certainly not you.

 

[sealybobo]

deanrd posted in another thread that
GOP oppose Education and Health Care.

If you are GOP will you please vote in the
attached poll, what are you really against?

Education and Health Care?
or
"Federal centralized control" of these
instead of managing choices democratically
by people and states more effectively?

Can we settle this once and for all
what it is that Conservatives/GOP are opposed to?

Thanks!

Some things need to be either socialized or more heavily regulated. Or have a public option for poor or cheap young people

By that logic why wouldn't the government just buy every adult American a brand new electric car every year? If subsidizing things is so great , why stop there? Government TVs..........

Because silly you don't die if you don't have car.

How about this analogy. We should have public transportation if too many Americans can't afford a car. So consider socialized medicine the bus of healthcare. You and I of course would have cadillac plans.

Who says we should have public transportation (presumably free) if too many Americans can't afford cars?

Who says? Sherrod Brown, Bernie Sanders and 16 co sponsors

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entr...wn-bernie-sanders_us_5c589635e4b00187b5540a87

‘Medicare For All’ Is Turning Into A 2020 Litmus Test For Democrats
The party’s voters need to decide how much it really matters.

What Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez can tell us about the future of Millennial politics - CNNPolitics

 

[emilynghiem]

deanrd posted in another thread that
GOP oppose Education and Health Care.

If you are GOP will you please vote in the
attached poll, what are you really against?

Education and Health Care?
or
"Federal centralized control" of these
instead of managing choices democratically
by people and states more effectively?

Can we settle this once and for all
what it is that Conservatives/GOP are opposed to?

Thanks!

Some things need to be either socialized or more heavily regulated. Or have a public option for poor or cheap young people

By that logic why wouldn't the government just buy every adult American a brand new electric car every year? If subsidizing things is so great , why stop there? Government TVs..........

Because silly you don't die if you don't have car.

How about this analogy. We should have public transportation if too many Americans can't afford a car. So consider socialized medicine the bus of healthcare. You and I of course would have cadillac plans.

Dear sealybobo
Putting aside the issue that "public transportation" also gets ruined and corrupted by special interests mucking with govt funding and votes on projects manipulated (similar to corporate insurance interests that mucked up the ACA to get it passed, and similar to mucked up public housing, prisons and schools over govt contract money abused and hard to check), aside from that mess:
1. There is a HUGE difference between public transportation by city, county, and state level decisions vs. Federalized health care regs pushed nationally through Congress without direct vote or voice by the people affected. How can you compare the two??

2. As for public infrastructure that is national policy, such as interstate hwys beyond state jurisdictions, these involve govt regulations on safety of roads. With medical care the public does agree to authorize govt to regulate and license professional medical services and facilities which is similar to regulating hwy safety, including state regs on car insurance.

But this is nowhere near the level of requiring people to register for Federalized insurance.

Lastly, just because people agree to vote on funding public transportation does not require us to agree to treat health care the same way. In cases I've seen, people did NOT even agree to fund plans for public transportation for much the same reasons as opposing Federalized health care mandates -- the politics and private interests mucked up the process and projects so taxpayers get stuck funding plans not authorized by agreement just because majority rule was reached.

If we cannot even get public housing done right through govt, nor prevent bureaucratic waste and disasters with public transportation and or public schools, why would you use these bad examples to argue for Federalized public health care mandated against the wishes and beliefs of people who prefer other options?

If anything what you bring up could better be used to argue Against this approach not for it!

Sorry but I will stick with my suggestion of letting taxpayers elect which system they want to manage their health care and social benefits through so they always have direct democratic choice in sensitive decisions affecting them which govt isn't designed to regulate for Mass populations of diverse people, beliefs and needs unique to each.

How can you possibly compare the intricate personal choices in public health care, unique to each person of different beliefs, to public transportation that doesn't bring up these levels. ?????

 

[emilynghiem]

deanrd posted in another thread that
GOP oppose Education and Health Care.

If you are GOP will you please vote in the
attached poll, what are you really against?

Education and Health Care?
or
"Federal centralized control" of these
instead of managing choices democratically
by people and states more effectively?

Can we settle this once and for all
what it is that Conservatives/GOP are opposed to?

Thanks!

Some things need to be either socialized or more heavily regulated. Or have a public option for poor or cheap young people

By that logic why wouldn't the government just buy every adult American a brand new electric car every year? If subsidizing things is so great , why stop there? Government TVs..........

Dear DandyDonovan and sealybobo

Simple then. Just let each taxpayers vote individually and or in groups which programs they agree to fund, provide or share in a cooperative pool that believes in the same standard access to those resources.

This does not have to affect the equal beliefs and choices of other collective groups, organized locally or statewide or nationally, while allowing those like sealybobo to register for nationalized health care run by fellow supporters as they believe.

The problem is caused by forcing mandates or requirements/,terms on people of other groups or beliefs. Also called Taxation without Representation or violating Separation of church and state by requiring people to support change or comply with faith based beliefs established under govt authority force or threat of penalty against their civil and constitutional rights.

As long as group members agree what services or benefits to subsidize there's no violation .

But sealybobo where in the world are you getting this idea
it's okay to force your choices and beliefs on social programs to fund through govt against the equal choice and rights of others to their beliefs ?

 

[sealybobo]

deanrd posted in another thread that
GOP oppose Education and Health Care.

If you are GOP will you please vote in the
attached poll, what are you really against?

Education and Health Care?
or
"Federal centralized control" of these
instead of managing choices democratically
by people and states more effectively?

Can we settle this once and for all
what it is that Conservatives/GOP are opposed to?

Thanks!

Some things need to be either socialized or more heavily regulated. Or have a public option for poor or cheap young people

By that logic why wouldn't the government just buy every adult American a brand new electric car every year? If subsidizing things is so great , why stop there? Government TVs..........

Because silly you don't die if you don't have car.

How about this analogy. We should have public transportation if too many Americans can't afford a car. So consider socialized medicine the bus of healthcare. You and I of course would have cadillac plans.

Dear sealybobo
Putting aside the issue that "public transportation" also gets ruined and corrupted by special interests mucking with govt funding and votes on projects manipulated (similar to corporate insurance interests that mucked up the ACA to get it passed, and similar to mucked up public housing, prisons and schools over govt contract money abused and hard to check), aside from that mess:
1. There is a HUGE difference between public transportation by city, county, and state level decisions vs. Federalized health care regs pushed nationally through Congress without direct vote or voice by the people affected. How can you compare the two??

2. As for public infrastructure that is national policy, such as interstate hwys beyond state jurisdictions, these involve govt regulations on safety of roads. With medical care the public does agree to authorize govt to regulate and license professional medical services and facilities which is similar to regulating hwy safety, including state regs on car insurance.

But this is nowhere near the level of requiring people to register for Federalized insurance.

Lastly, just because people agree to vote on funding public transportation does not require us to agree to treat health care the same way. In cases I've seen, people did NOT even agree to fund plans for public transportation for much the same reasons as opposing Federalized health care mandates -- the politics and private interests mucked up the process and projects so taxpayers get stuck funding plans not authorized by agreement just because majority rule was reached.

If we cannot even get public housing done right through govt, nor prevent bureaucratic waste and disasters with public transportation and or public schools, why would you use these bad examples to argue for Federalized public health care mandated against the wishes and beliefs of people who prefer other options?

If anything what you bring up could better be used to argue Against this approach not for it!

Sorry but I will stick with my suggestion of letting taxpayers elect which system they want to manage their health care and social benefits through so they always have direct democratic choice in sensitive decisions affecting them which govt isn't designed to regulate for Mass populations of diverse people, beliefs and needs unique to each.

How can you possibly compare the intricate personal choices in public health care, unique to each person of different beliefs, to public transportation that doesn't bring up these levels. ?????

I’m just saying we as a society might decide that public healthcare available to all is something we want same as we could for public transportation.

I would love it if we had a cheap bad but free public option for people who don’t have insurance and you and I stay with our corporate provided healthcare. Just like you and I would never take the bus it’s there if we need it.

 

[sealybobo]

deanrd posted in another thread that
GOP oppose Education and Health Care.

If you are GOP will you please vote in the
attached poll, what are you really against?

Education and Health Care?
or
"Federal centralized control" of these
instead of managing choices democratically
by people and states more effectively?

Can we settle this once and for all
what it is that Conservatives/GOP are opposed to?

Thanks!

Some things need to be either socialized or more heavily regulated. Or have a public option for poor or cheap young people

By that logic why wouldn't the government just buy every adult American a brand new electric car every year? If subsidizing things is so great , why stop there? Government TVs..........

Dear DandyDonovan and sealybobo

Simple then. Just let each taxpayers vote individually and or in groups which programs they agree to fund, provide or share in a cooperative pool that believes in the same standard access to those resources.

This does not have to affect the equal beliefs and choices of other collective groups, organized locally or statewide or nationally, while allowing those like sealybobo to register for nationalized health care run by fellow supporters as they believe.

The problem is caused by forcing mandates or requirements/,terms on people of other groups or beliefs. Also called Taxation without Representation or violating Separation of church and state by requiring people to support change or comply with faith based beliefs established under govt authority force or threat of penalty against their civil and constitutional rights.

As long as group members agree what services or benefits to subsidize there's no violation .

But sealybobo where in the world are you getting this idea
it's okay to force your choices and beliefs on social programs to fund through govt against the equal choice and rights of others to their beliefs ?

Do you live in a city with public transportation? I’m sure less than 100% of the people agree with their tax dollars paying for a bus they will never use.

So where do I get the idea? In my condo we have 5 board members we elected to make decisions for us. If 3 agree on something then it gets done.

Same with our federal government. We elect them to decide such things.

Oh, and where else do I get the idea? Every other nation does it

 

[DandyDonovan]

deanrd posted in another thread that
GOP oppose Education and Health Care.

If you are GOP will you please vote in the
attached poll, what are you really against?

Education and Health Care?
or
"Federal centralized control" of these
instead of managing choices democratically
by people and states more effectively?

Can we settle this once and for all
what it is that Conservatives/GOP are opposed to?

Thanks!

Some things need to be either socialized or more heavily regulated. Or have a public option for poor or cheap young people

By that logic why wouldn't the government just buy every adult American a brand new electric car every year? If subsidizing things is so great , why stop there? Government TVs..........

Dear DandyDonovan and sealybobo

Simple then. Just let each taxpayers vote individually and or in groups which programs they agree to fund, provide or share in a cooperative pool that believes in the same standard access to those resources.

This does not have to affect the equal beliefs and choices of other collective groups, organized locally or statewide or nationally, while allowing those like sealybobo to register for nationalized health care run by fellow supporters as they believe.

The problem is caused by forcing mandates or requirements/,terms on people of other groups or beliefs. Also called Taxation without Representation or violating Separation of church and state by requiring people to support change or comply with faith based beliefs established under govt authority force or threat of penalty against their civil and constitutional rights.

As long as group members agree what services or benefits to subsidize there's no violation .

But sealybobo where in the world are you getting this idea
it's okay to force your choices and beliefs on social programs to fund through govt against the equal choice and rights of others to their beliefs ?

Not only is that impossible, it isn't even in holding with our form of government, we are NOT a direct democracy, we are a Republic governed by representative democracy. Each of us votes for a Representative who most closely shares our values.

 

[sealybobo]

deanrd posted in another thread that
GOP oppose Education and Health Care.

If you are GOP will you please vote in the
attached poll, what are you really against?

Education and Health Care?
or
"Federal centralized control" of these
instead of managing choices democratically
by people and states more effectively?

Can we settle this once and for all
what it is that Conservatives/GOP are opposed to?

Thanks!

Some things need to be either socialized or more heavily regulated. Or have a public option for poor or cheap young people

By that logic why wouldn't the government just buy every adult American a brand new electric car every year? If subsidizing things is so great , why stop there? Government TVs..........

Dear DandyDonovan and sealybobo

Simple then. Just let each taxpayers vote individually and or in groups which programs they agree to fund, provide or share in a cooperative pool that believes in the same standard access to those resources.

This does not have to affect the equal beliefs and choices of other collective groups, organized locally or statewide or nationally, while allowing those like sealybobo to register for nationalized health care run by fellow supporters as they believe.

The problem is caused by forcing mandates or requirements/,terms on people of other groups or beliefs. Also called Taxation without Representation or violating Separation of church and state by requiring people to support change or comply with faith based beliefs established under govt authority force or threat of penalty against their civil and constitutional rights.

As long as group members agree what services or benefits to subsidize there's no violation .

But sealybobo where in the world are you getting this idea
it's okay to force your choices and beliefs on social programs to fund through govt against the equal choice and rights of others to their beliefs ?

Not only is that impossible, it isn't even in holding with our form of government, we are NOT a direct democracy, we are a Republic governed by representative democracy. Each of us votes for a Representative who most closely shares our values.

Thank you! And if that rep votes for socialized transportation or medicine then emily doesn't get to ask where I got the idea that it's ok to force my choices on her. The fact is her representative decided for her. She elected that person. If you don't like it vote them out. And if you can, then I guess the voters decided by re electing that person.

Right now the country is split. People like emily don't want to be forced to pay for public education, energy, social security, medicare, medicaid, public transportation. All of these things are unconstitutional to her even though her elected representatives voted for all these things. She feels they were FORCED on her. And there are Republicans and libertarians who would love to do it her way.

 

[DandyDonovan]

deanrd posted in another thread that
GOP oppose Education and Health Care.

If you are GOP will you please vote in the
attached poll, what are you really against?

Education and Health Care?
or
"Federal centralized control" of these
instead of managing choices democratically
by people and states more effectively?

Can we settle this once and for all
what it is that Conservatives/GOP are opposed to?

Thanks!

Some things need to be either socialized or more heavily regulated. Or have a public option for poor or cheap young people

By that logic why wouldn't the government just buy every adult American a brand new electric car every year? If subsidizing things is so great , why stop there? Government TVs..........

Dear DandyDonovan and sealybobo

Simple then. Just let each taxpayers vote individually and or in groups which programs they agree to fund, provide or share in a cooperative pool that believes in the same standard access to those resources.

This does not have to affect the equal beliefs and choices of other collective groups, organized locally or statewide or nationally, while allowing those like sealybobo to register for nationalized health care run by fellow supporters as they believe.

The problem is caused by forcing mandates or requirements/,terms on people of other groups or beliefs. Also called Taxation without Representation or violating Separation of church and state by requiring people to support change or comply with faith based beliefs established under govt authority force or threat of penalty against their civil and constitutional rights.

As long as group members agree what services or benefits to subsidize there's no violation .

But sealybobo where in the world are you getting this idea
it's okay to force your choices and beliefs on social programs to fund through govt against the equal choice and rights of others to their beliefs ?

Not only is that impossible, it isn't even in holding with our form of government, we are NOT a direct democracy, we are a Republic governed by representative democracy. Each of us votes for a Representative who most closely shares our values.

Thank you! And if that rep votes for socialized transportation or medicine then emily doesn't get to ask where I got the idea that it's ok to force my choices on her. The fact is her representative decided for her. She elected that person. If you don't like it vote them out. And if you can, then I guess the voters decided by re electing that person.

Right now the country is split. People like emily don't want to be forced to pay for public education, energy, social security, medicare, medicaid, public transportation. All of these things are unconstitutional to her even though her elected representatives voted for all these things. She feels they were FORCED on her. And there are Republicans and libertarians who would love to do it her way.

To be fair there are plenty of Democrats who scream like hell when Repubicanas are voted in to do things they don't want to. The wall is a VERY good example of this. Americans want a perimeter security fence, It's been voted on several times, Trump was voted into office in large part to get it done. Democrats, led by Nancy Pelosi scream nonsense about it being un American, an immorality , a waste of money blah blah blah. All, let's face it, because they simply don't want to give Trump the win

 

[DandyDonovan]

deanrd are you still reading that study that shows that children who are homeschooled are more socialized than children who attend public school? I truly expected a man of honor and integrity would have been back by now to dispute a study they disagree with with facts.........