Good vs Evil (why evil will win)

[Gregory A]

First up could it be that doing good or doing evil is impossible anyhow as these are concepts only. Do they rely on the existence of a god to make them real. Is an association with morality more than implied and maybe is always needed or is there good or evil involved in everything we do. Can it become something neutral instead? Is intent needed?

Because if the future, should it already exist, be a hellish place, then would not this eventuation be conducive to evil, now? That's when determinism set the future in place regardless of whether it has happened already.

So why if evil exists will it win out over good? I don't really know. But I do know that all of my attempts to prevent something bad that I believe will happen in the future are being blocked for one reason or another, a chronological censorship thing in effect. One that suggests evil has already won the contest. Good and evil may only appear to be concepts but may have an effect regardless. And then It could be that what I believe is the result of delusion on my part. But if so why can't anyone show me where I'm wrong either.

 

[night_son]

First up could it be that doing good or doing evil is impossible anyhow as these are concepts only. Do they rely on the existence of a god to make them real. Is an association with morality more than implied and maybe is always needed or is there good or evil involved in everything we do. Can it become something neutral instead? Is intent needed?

Because if the future, should it already exist, be a hellish place, then would not this eventuation be conducive to evil, now? That's when determinism set the future in place regardless of whether it has happened already.

So why if evil exists will it win out over good? I don't really know. But I do know that all of my attempts to prevent something bad that I believe will happen in the future are being blocked for one reason or another, a chronological censorship thing in effect. One that suggests evil has already won the contest. Good and evil may only appear to be concepts but may have an effect regardless. And then It could be that what I believe is the result of delusion on my part. But if so why can't anyone show me where I'm wrong either.

Good is everything that promotes the perpetuation of the human race and individual freedom. Evil is everything that seeks the end of mankind, either over time or immediately and is that which promotes mass or individual suffering. Where it all gets rather confusing is when the freedom of one human being requires the suffering of others or the suffering of one human being promotes the freedom of others. This is where selfless acts collide with selfish ones and it is the place where governments capitalize on human desire. No one wants to take one for team human, but everyone wants someone else to sacrifice for their benefit. Perhaps hell is a place we visit every moment spent outside of dreams.

 

[Ray9]

You need to understand that the concept of good is always under the ownership of those in power. What is good for them is what keeps them in power. What is evil for them are those that threaten their power. Whoever gets power gets the good and owns it. This is really evil of course but calling it good endows a self-righteousness on the minds of those who Own the good.

Money is good, but it the love of it is the root of all evil so those that have the most of it will always think they are doing good by keeping and hoarding it for themselves. It is a delusional paradigm that afflicts the human mind.

 

[MaryL]

Ex Catholic agnostic chiming in here; Murphy's law: translated into "Gods will". It's mysterious? Um, I look for god all the time. And if god loves us us, he has a weird way of showing it. So, I recently came from a children's cancer ward with recently deceased kids and their adorable little hand turkeys or crayon drawings on the wall. Not seeing gods mercy. Suffer the little children? Yeah, right.

 

[night_son]

Ex Catholic agnostic chiming in here; Murphy's law: translated into "Gods will". It's mysterious? Um, I look for god all the time. And if god loves us us, he has a weird way of showing it. So, I recently came from a children's cancer ward with recently deceased and their adorable little hand turkeys or crayon drawings on the wall. Not seeing gods mercy. Suffer the little children? Yeah, right.

Suppose God gave some gold worshipping doctor the cure for all child cancer but the good old Doc figured out he could make more money off chemo treatments? Free will will always be problematic and murderous.

 

[jehanne1431]

It's impossible to reason with an atheist. . . And what a dour life it is.

 

[Riff Raff]

Good is everything that promotes the perpetuation of the human race and individual freedom. Evil is everything that seeks the end of mankind, either over time or immediately and is that which promotes mass or individual suffering. Where it all gets rather confusing is when the freedom of one human being requires the suffering of others or the suffering of one human being promotes the freedom of others. This is where selfless acts collide with selfish ones and it is the place where governments capitalize on human desire. No one wants to take one for team human, but everyone wants someone else to sacrifice for their benefit. Perhaps hell is a place we visit every moment spent outside of dreams.

Good unifies. Evil divides.

 

[Ray9]

Ex Catholic agnostic chiming in here; Murphy's law: translated into "Gods will". It's mysterious? Um, I look for god all the time. And if god loves us us, he has a weird way of showing it. So, I recently came from a children's cancer ward with their little hand turkeys or crayon drawings on the wall. Not seeing gods mercy. Suffer the little children? Yeah, right.

As a fellow agnostic let me play the Devil's advocate. God gave us minds to stop the suffering of little children. It is not his will to interfere in our methods. I am also a cynic. Trillions in Earth's money have been spent on cancer research-no cure. Billions go into looking for a cure each year but no cure is found because once that happens all the research money will dry up. All the money to be made is in looking for cures not finding them. If you were God you would be face palming every day.

 

[Baron Von Murderpaws]

Evil may win, but good will make sure evil comes out all bruised, battered, bloody, and belittled.

 

[Riff Raff]

You need to understand that the concept of good is always under the ownership of those in power. What is good for them is what keeps them in power. What is evil for them are those that threaten their power. Whoever gets power gets the good and owns it. This is really evil of course but calling it good endows a self-righteousness on the minds of those who Own the good.

Money is good, but it the love of it is the root of all evil so those that have the most of it will always think they are doing good by keeping and hoarding it for themselves. It is a delusional paradigm that afflicts the human mind.

Ray, while some of what you say has some truth to it, I don't think it gets to the essence of good and evil. There's a fundamental dynamic that powers life, and that which unifies is wholesome, harmonious and therefore good. That which divides is divisive, discordant and bad.

Those in power define the rules and some of that is naturally self-serving. But those in power are not necessarily evil. As an example, Western culture, and since we're talking about US politics, particularly the American people are a wonderful example of inclusiveness and charity. It's always been a trait of the people to help others, often those not in power.

Those that acquire money are not evil. The reason capitalism is so phenomenally successful is that it provides the opportunity for happiness, and if happiness can be found in financial success, well, more power to them. There are many wealthy that contribute to society by means of philanthropy, so not all "horde" it.

I find your perspective a bit cynical.

 

[Gregory A]

Good is everything that promotes the perpetuation of the human race and individual freedom. Evil is everything that seeks the end of mankind, either over time or immediately and is that which promotes mass or individual suffering. Where it all gets rather confusing is when the freedom of one human being requires the suffering of others or the suffering of one human being promotes the freedom of others. This is where selfless acts collide with selfish ones and it is the place where governments capitalize on human desire. No one wants to take one for team human, but everyone wants someone else to sacrifice for their benefit. Perhaps hell is a place we visit every moment spent outside of dreams.

At a glance what you say makes sense, but if that is how it is then evil cannot win because very few individuals and maybe no groups would be wanting to end mankind. Everything should slowly continue to get better as is has been doing for thousands of years. So I'm not sure why anyone would think otherwise if that is correct. I'm not really sure what Humanism if that's what you mean.

 

[frigidweirdo]

First up could it be that doing good or doing evil is impossible anyhow as these are concepts only. Do they rely on the existence of a god to make them real. Is an association with morality more than implied and maybe is always needed or is there good or evil involved in everything we do. Can it become something neutral instead? Is intent needed?

Because if the future, should it already exist, be a hellish place, then would not this eventuation be conducive to evil, now? That's when determinism set the future in place regardless of whether it has happened already.

So why if evil exists will it win out over good? I don't really know. But I do know that all of my attempts to prevent something bad that I believe will happen in the future are being blocked for one reason or another, a chronological censorship thing in effect. One that suggests evil has already won the contest. Good and evil may only appear to be concepts but may have an effect regardless. And then It could be that what I believe is the result of delusion on my part. But if so why can't anyone show me where I'm wrong either.

What is "good" and what is "evil"?

These words can change depending on who's looking at it. I'm sure I could make most people look evil.

 

[fncceo]

Evil will NEVER win because ...

Once evil has won, it become mainstream and, therefore, no longer evil.

 

[Gregory A]

You need to understand that the concept of good is always under the ownership of those in power. What is good for them is what keeps them in power. What is evil for them are those that threaten their power. Whoever gets power gets the good and owns it. This is really evil of course but calling it good endows a self-righteousness on the minds of those who Own the good.

Isn't why we have democracy to stop these things happening.

Money is good, but it the love of it is the root of all evil so those that have the most of it will always think they are doing good by keeping and hoarding it for themselves. It is a delusional paradigm that afflicts the human mind.

They're hoading money like Scrooge McDuck with his money bins. Never could figure those things out though. I mean money in a bin earns no interest, loses out to inflation, and even sillier could be earning more money if re-envested in where it came from originally.

 

[Gregory A]

Ex Catholic agnostic chiming in here; Murphy's law: translated into "Gods will". It's mysterious? Um, I look for god all the time. And if god loves us us, he has a weird way of showing it. So, I recently came from a children's cancer ward with recently deceased kids and their adorable little hand turkeys or crayon drawings on the wall. Not seeing gods mercy. Suffer the little children? Yeah, right.

I'm not religious myself, but am aware that the Bible does say that there is an afterlife, and it also says it is in a heavenly place. And then think of all the children that have it good too. Chime in anytime I appreciate what you say and understand how you feel. I'm going in an opposite direction to you, from atheism to theism. It's not easy but anything is better than the concept of a Godless universe.

 

[Gregory A]

What is "good" and what is "evil"?

These words can change depending on who's looking at it. I'm sure I could make most people look evil.

I like to think that good is positive action and bad is negative action. Inaction can be bad too, not sure about good though. Good action might be building a house, and bad action be the destruction of a house.

 

[expat_panama]

I'm not religious myself, but am aware that the Bible does say that there is an afterlife, and it also says it is in a heavenly place. And then think of all the children that have it good too. Chime in anytime I appreciate what you say and understand how you feel. I'm going in an opposite direction to you, from atheism to theism. It's not easy but anything is better than the concept of a Godless universe.

Of course if we do a search using the King James Version for the phrase "heavenly place" the only hits are for "heavenly places" in Ephesians --it kind of vaguely matches to what ur saying. Or not, hard to tell. My experience w/ the after life is that everything's so unclear that the exact nature is something that we just can't know. yet. It's real but we can't know. Meanwhile we got life in the here and now & my hope is that it's good for u as it is for me.

This thread's neat & important but it's off to a bad start. Example:

First up could it be that doing good or doing evil is impossible anyhow as these are concepts only. Do they rely on the existence of a god to make them real....

It's hard to tell whether that's a question or not, my guess is that this thread is important but begun w/o sufficient thought. My take is that God is, or we can say Reality is --both the same to me. To me a thing that's good is something that adds to the welfare of humankind, but at the same time eventually on this planet the human race will be gone. Forever. To me doing well for humankind is good and the eventual end doesn't contradict it.

There's a lot going on here.

 

[frigidweirdo]

I like to think that good is positive action and bad is negative action. Inaction can be bad too, not sure about good though. Good action might be building a house, and bad action be the destruction of a house.

Killing an animal for food is a positive action or a negative action?

Certainly for the animal that dies, it's pretty negative.

Who's perspective matters?

 

[Ray9]

Killing an animal for food is a positive action or a negative action?

Certainly for the animal that dies, it's pretty negative.

Who's perspective matters?

Killing a plant or a vegetable is a negative action for the plant. But nature created beings that must eat nature to survive. Who created nature? Was it God? If God created nature then God must be evil to create a system where one form of life must kill another to live. This could be why evil seems to prevail in so many cases.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Killing a plant or a vegetable is a negative action for the plant. But nature created beings that must eat nature to survive. Who created nature? Was it God? If God created nature then God must be evil to create a system where one form of life must kill another to live. This could be why evil seems to prevail in so many cases.

So then, if we follow our nature, we cannot be "evil"?
If a person is born a psychopath, and they kill people, they're not "evil", they're just "natural"???

Therefore it would seem that NOTHING is evil, everything is just following it's natural laws.