Good Nationalism-- Oh yes, it's real

[Said1]

It will. Your defeatist attitude is not a reasoned position.

What you "hope" or "think" or have conviced yourself of is no more reasoned than anything I've said. I've also said moderate nationalism is good. That's not defeatist in the least, just cautious. See, I'm a true conservative, Burke being my idol and all. Moderation is key.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

What you "hope" or "think" or have conviced yourself of is no more reasoned than anything I've said. I've also said moderate nationalism is good. That's not defeatist in the least, just cautious. See, I'm a true conservative, Burke being my idol and all. Moderation is key.

All i know is this:Nationalism is not necessarily intertwined with ethnic homogeneity, racial homogeniety, cultural homogeniety, or perceived common history. It can crystalize around new positive values, around democratic institutions, tolerance, and individual rights.

 

[Emmett]

Man, how can you say these things. The fastest growing group of millionaires in the country (ethnic) are blacks! Seems to me that they are doing quite well in this country where they cannot co-exist!

60% of the motel/hotel business in owned by Indians! You know, from India!

Needless to say, I disagree with you! Ethnic groups of all types are doing quite well here in America. I must say that the white American male is paying the price for it too, at our own fault I admit!

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Trace, there is no 'nationalistic' movement here, other than in a the drug/alcohol addled brains around here. The rest of us 'get it.'

Oh isn't there? I think you're fooling yourself, Kathianne.

http://www.newamericancentury.org

 

[Annie]

Oh isn't there? I think you're fooling yourself, Kathianne.

http://www.newamericancentury.org

No, you are Jason. The sooner you sit down and get a grip, the better off you'll be.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

I guess there's no nationalistic movement if you only see nationalism in it "ethnic purity" sense. That's really not what nationalism means though.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

No, you are Jason. The sooner you sit down and get a grip, the better off you'll be.

When I want your advice I'll annoy it out of you!

 

[Annie]

When I want your advice I'll annoy it out of you!

It's a hell of a lot more than 'ethnic purity' but that IS a part of the nationalistic movements of recent times.

 

[Said1]

All i know is this:Nationalism is not necessarily intertwined with ethnic homogeneity, racial homogeniety, cultural homogeniety, or perceived common history. It can crystalize around new positive values, around democratic institutions, tolerance, and individual rights.

I never said it was. I've also said moderate nationalism is a good thing. Although, like I said already "I think patriotism is a better description of American values etc" You like "positive-nationalism" better, which is really kind of lame, like "positive-communism", but whatever.

 

[Annie]

All i know is this:Nationalism is not necessarily intertwined with ethnic homogeneity, racial homogeniety, cultural homogeniety, or perceived common history. It can crystalize around new positive values, around democratic institutions, tolerance, and individual rights.

and you KNOW this how?

 

[rtwngAvngr]

and you KNOW this how?

:duh3: No thanks.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

George Orwell equated nationalism with racism. It's obviously not that. He was into political correctness.

http://www.resort.com/~prime8/Orwell/nationalism.html

By "nationalism" I mean first of all the habit of assuming that human beings can be classified like insects and that whole blocks of millions or tens of millions of people can be confidently labelled "good" or "bad."

 

[OCA]

But the word "nationalism" has been propgandized and smeared to mean certain things in many people's mind that it just doesn't mean. I'm saying a nationalism that spreads the values of tolerance, individual rights, and democracy has never been done before. You know that. Quit spinning.

RWA I think I can help you here, the nationalism that you are speaking of here is better known as colonialism, glad I could straighten you out.

 

[Said1]

RWA I think I can help you here, the nationalism that you are speaking of here is better known as colonialism, glad I could straighten you out.

And after thanking Napoleon for his help, the Egyptians told him to get lost, too. All he wanted to do was spread his nationalism and the virtues of France. How rude. They just didn't "get" it.

 

[OCA]

And after thanking Napoleon for his help, the Egyptians told him to get lost, too. All he wanted to do was spread his nationalism and the virtues of France. How rude. They just didn't "get" it.

You see with regards to Iraq, the people i'm sure want democracy but with all the instability with regards to infrastructure(which Iraqis perceive as us having caused since before us they had a decent infrastructure) etc. etc. and not to mention that their religion is so entwined with everyday life that they will always fall back on what they have always known which is either a theocratic state or a totalitarian state. Mark my words, either we stay there forever or the moment we pull out it will begin a civil war and out of that will come a government nobody will like, it has been this way for thousands of years there, it will not change.

Now look, many will post pictures and articles about things being hunkydory but I don't give a shit if the streets are paved with gold and Dom Perignon is running from all the water faucets if you can't walk down the street without fear of having your ass blown off then all the new hospitals and schools aren't worth spit in a bucket. That instability is Bush's fault directly because of his mishandling of military resources.

 

[Said1]

You see with regards to Iraq, the people i'm sure want democracy but with all the instability with regards to infrastructure(which Iraqis perceive as us having caused since before us they had a decent infrastructure) etc. etc. and not to mention that their religion is so entwined with everyday life that they will always fall back on what they have always known which is either a theocratic state or a totalitarian state. Mark my words, either we stay there forever or the moment we pull out it will begin a civil war and out of that will come a government nobody will like, it has been this way for thousands of years there, it will not change.

Now look, many will post pictures and articles about things being hunkydory but I don't give a shit if the streets are paved with gold and Dom Perignon is running from all the water faucets if you can't walk down the street without fear of having your ass blown off then all the new hospitals and schools aren't worth spit in a bucket. That instability is Bush's fault directly because of his mishandling of military resources.

I agree, that no matter what, theocracy and totalitarianism has more often than not been plan B in the mid east. But, that's where we part ways. I think the instability and civil revolt was already brewing and was probably inevitable.

 

[OCA]

I agree, that no matter what, theocracy and totalitarianism has more often than not been plan B in the mid east. But, that's where we part ways. I think the instability and civil revolt was already brewing and was probably inevitable.

Yeah but they didn't have gas lines and the electricity was running 24 hrs a day. You would think that that would have been our first priority to secure the oil lines, no. They are sitting on the biggest bed of oil going but because we can't control some scumbag insurgents people wait in line for hours upon end for gas.

I'm not saying it was better with Sadaam, we all know it wasn't, i'm saying that miltarily we have fucked up there big time, heck we were at the gates of Berlin in WWII in the same amount of time its taken 60,000 insurgents to tie our hands.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

RWA I think I can help you here, the nationalism that you are speaking of here is better known as colonialism, glad I could straighten you out.

Nationalism may or may not "go colonial". Hence, why they are two separate words. Get yourself straight.

You're sounding more and more like Cindy Sheehan and michael moore everyday.

 

[OCA]

Nationalism may or may not "go colonial". Hence, why they are two separate words. Get yourself straight.

You're sounding more and more like Cindy Sheehan and michael moore everyday.

Yeah, yeah, you're so predictable. When out of coherent thoughts resort to the mudslinging. Sure you aren't Howard Dean?

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Yeah, yeah, you're so predictable. When out of coherent thoughts resort to the mudslinging. Sure you aren't Howard Dean?

I'm sorry. The intellectual content of your posts lately has been similar to that of several left wing kooks. Don't kill the messenger.