Good and bad news for Illinois

[Seawytch]

Bout time.

Just who in the hell expects taxpayers to continue to fund they're lives after they retire??.

Military members?

I think someone fighting for your freedom and their life is entitled to a pension . Not someone who is an office all day . The only other people I think the tax payers should pay is firefighters and police officers..

I think everyone who was promised a pension as a condition of their employment should get one...especially when they took lower pay in exchange for it.

 

[Seawytch]

Because the answer isn't true?

Oh? Care to explain the mental gymnastics required to come to that conclusion?

You, the taxpayer, fund my retirement for the rest of my life.

Remind me what state you're in.

Remind me why it matters? I'm a military retiree. I get taxpayer dollars for the rest of my life no matter where I live.

 

[The Rabbi]

Oh? Care to explain the mental gymnastics required to come to that conclusion?

You, the taxpayer, fund my retirement for the rest of my life.

Remind me what state you're in.

Remind me why it matters? I'm a military retiree. I get taxpayer dollars for the rest of my life no matter where I live.

From everyone in the US, not just one state or municipality. So the comparison is wrong.

In any case it is instructive that just about the only people still getting defined benefit pensions are state workers. Everyone else is on defined contribution. And that will become increasingly the norm as time goes on.

 

[martybegan]

Remind me what state you're in.

Remind me why it matters? I'm a military retiree. I get taxpayer dollars for the rest of my life no matter where I live.

From everyone in the US, not just one state or municipality. So the comparison is wrong.

In any case it is instructive that just about the only people still getting defined benefit pensions are state workers. Everyone else is on defined contribution. And that will become increasingly the norm as time goes on.

There is also a question of numbers. How many military people are career people who stay in long enough to get a full pension? The number percentage wise is probably alot less than for state employees.

Rabbi is also correct when it comes to the pool of taxpayers supporting the pensions. States right now have overpromised benefit levels for years and underfunded pension funds (the real problem). Now the piper has to be paid, and no one wants to do it.

 

[Claudette]

Remind me why it matters? I'm a military retiree. I get taxpayer dollars for the rest of my life no matter where I live.

From everyone in the US, not just one state or municipality. So the comparison is wrong.

In any case it is instructive that just about the only people still getting defined benefit pensions are state workers. Everyone else is on defined contribution. And that will become increasingly the norm as time goes on.

There is also a question of numbers. How many military people are career people who stay in long enough to get a full pension? The number percentage wise is probably alot less than for state employees.

Rabbi is also correct when it comes to the pool of taxpayers supporting the pensions. States right now have overpromised benefit levels for years and underfunded pension funds (the real problem). Now the piper has to be paid, and no one wants to do it.

Yup. Loads of these pensions have no imput from the pensioner. The taxes pay for everything.

As I said. Whoever put this shit in and whoever approved it should be shot. Eventually you run out of other peoples money and the whole thing comes crashing down. Just stupid and blind and probably politically motivated.

 

[Mr. H.]

This state can never get ahead as long as Madigan seats such power.

 

[JoeB131]

This state can never get ahead as long as Madigan seats such power.

Wait until his daughter becomes governor.

 

[Seawytch]

Remind me why it matters? I'm a military retiree. I get taxpayer dollars for the rest of my life no matter where I live.

From everyone in the US, not just one state or municipality. So the comparison is wrong.

In any case it is instructive that just about the only people still getting defined benefit pensions are state workers. Everyone else is on defined contribution. And that will become increasingly the norm as time goes on.

There is also a question of numbers. How many military people are career people who stay in long enough to get a full pension? The number percentage wise is probably alot less than for state employees.

Rabbi is also correct when it comes to the pool of taxpayers supporting the pensions. States right now have overpromised benefit levels for years and underfunded pension funds (the real problem). Now the piper has to be paid, and no one wants to do it.

The percentage wise for state or local employees isn't that great either compared to the greater population. They certainly don't employ as many, percentage wise, as the military either.

It's not the workers fault that states either got screwed during the Bush recession or screwed themselves and folks need to stop demonizing people for just doing their jobs for the benefits. usually in lieu of pay increases, they were promised as a condition of their employment.

 

[martybegan]

From everyone in the US, not just one state or municipality. So the comparison is wrong.

In any case it is instructive that just about the only people still getting defined benefit pensions are state workers. Everyone else is on defined contribution. And that will become increasingly the norm as time goes on.

There is also a question of numbers. How many military people are career people who stay in long enough to get a full pension? The number percentage wise is probably alot less than for state employees.

Rabbi is also correct when it comes to the pool of taxpayers supporting the pensions. States right now have overpromised benefit levels for years and underfunded pension funds (the real problem). Now the piper has to be paid, and no one wants to do it.

The percentage wise for state or local employees isn't that great either compared to the greater population. They certainly don't employ as many, percentage wise, as the military either.

It's not the workers fault that states either got screwed during the Bush recession or screwed themselves and folks need to stop demonizing people for just doing their jobs for the benefits. usually in lieu of pay increases, they were promised as a condition of their employment.

What you are leaving out is the collusion between elected officals and the unions when it came to these deals. The benefit goodies were given out simply beacuse the officals at the time knew it would not be their problem, but someone elses 20 years later.

And as an issue of fairness, why should I, as a current taxpayer, be punished with higher taxes and lesser services due to some jury rigged promise 20 years ago, followed by incompetent pension fund management from then unti now?

 

[The Rabbi]

From everyone in the US, not just one state or municipality. So the comparison is wrong.

In any case it is instructive that just about the only people still getting defined benefit pensions are state workers. Everyone else is on defined contribution. And that will become increasingly the norm as time goes on.

There is also a question of numbers. How many military people are career people who stay in long enough to get a full pension? The number percentage wise is probably alot less than for state employees.

Rabbi is also correct when it comes to the pool of taxpayers supporting the pensions. States right now have overpromised benefit levels for years and underfunded pension funds (the real problem). Now the piper has to be paid, and no one wants to do it.

The percentage wise for state or local employees isn't that great either compared to the greater population. They certainly don't employ as many, percentage wise, as the military either.

It's not the workers fault that states either got screwed during the Bush recession or screwed themselves and folks need to stop demonizing people for just doing their jobs for the benefits. usually in lieu of pay increases, they were promised as a condition of their employment.

How many members of the military stay in for 20 years to collect their pensions? How many get pensions well over 100k/yr?
As I recall it takes two parties to sign an agreement. If unions got greedy and demanded more than states could pay then why shouldn't they suffer like everyone else?

 

[Wyatt earp]

From everyone in the US, not just one state or municipality. So the comparison is wrong.

In any case it is instructive that just about the only people still getting defined benefit pensions are state workers. Everyone else is on defined contribution. And that will become increasingly the norm as time goes on.

There is also a question of numbers. How many military people are career people who stay in long enough to get a full pension? The number percentage wise is probably alot less than for state employees.

Rabbi is also correct when it comes to the pool of taxpayers supporting the pensions. States right now have overpromised benefit levels for years and underfunded pension funds (the real problem). Now the piper has to be paid, and no one wants to do it.

The percentage wise for state or local employees isn't that great either compared to the greater population. They certainly don't employ as many, percentage wise, as the military either.

It's not the workers fault that states either got screwed during the Bush recession or screwed themselves and folks need to stop demonizing people for just doing their jobs for the benefits. usually in lieu of pay increases, they were promised as a condition of their employment.

This has nothing to do with 5 years ago. this goes back decades.

 

[Kondor3]

The prime issue is that an amendment to a state's consitution that guarnatees state worker pensions should have never happened in the first place.

So if the pension costs continue to rise the state is left with two options, cut services and/or raise taxes, both of which would lead to a massive exodus of the productive population. Basically look at detroit on a state level.

So the maintenance of state worker pensions, pensions which were set up by people courting the state unions for votes (shifty if you ask me) overrides the surivival of the states ability to govern and maintain a productive population?

< puts on fake State Worker's Hat again for a moment >

----------

No... the prime issue is you giving me my fucking money.

Don't tell me your little problems...

I'm only interested in results...

I fulfilled my end of the bargain and kept the faith for 30 years...

Now... give me my fucking money...

Or my brothers and sisters - active and retired - are gonna crucify you in Federal Court...

Not to mention work-stoppages and work-slowdowns to make anything like it that has gone before, to look pale by comparison...

Enough talk already... no excuses... no bullshit... no weasel-rationalizations... just give me my fucking money.

-------------

< takes fake State Worker Hat off again... sorry >

 

[The Rabbi]

The prime issue is that an amendment to a state's consitution that guarnatees state worker pensions should have never happened in the first place.

So if the pension costs continue to rise the state is left with two options, cut services and/or raise taxes, both of which would lead to a massive exodus of the productive population. Basically look at detroit on a state level.

So the maintenance of state worker pensions, pensions which were set up by people courting the state unions for votes (shifty if you ask me) overrides the surivival of the states ability to govern and maintain a productive population?

< puts on fake State Worker's Hat again for a moment >

----------

No... the prime issue is you giving me my fucking money.

Don't tell me your little problems...

I'm only interested in results...

I fulfilled my end of the bargain and kept the faith for 30 years...

Now... give me my fucking money...

Or my brothers and sisters - active and retired - are gonna crucify you in Federal Court.

No excuses... no bullshit... no weasel-rationalizations... just give me my fucking money.

-------------

< takes fake State Worker Hat off again... sorry >

They dont have it.
The municipality files bankruptcy, erasing all contracts and claims. And you're OUTADERE!

 

[Kondor3]

"...They dont have it. The municipality files bankruptcy, erasing all contracts and claims. And you're OUTADERE!"

But the State is serving as de facto guarantor for all, isn't it?

Oh, and, how many village-halls do you think will go up in flames within 30 days of declaring bankruptcy and screwing-over their union-member employees?

I'm neither a State Worker nor a Union Member but such an outcome would not surprise me in the slightest - especially with the union-member police looking the other way - and the union-member fire department getting there too late to save the building - whoops! ;-)

And not a solid clue in sight, as to who or why...

The mentality being: "Burn us down to the ground and we will go all Wagnerian-Nihilist on you and return the favor - if we go down, you go down."

 

[The Rabbi]

"...They dont have it. The municipality files bankruptcy, erasing all contracts and claims. And you're OUTADERE!"

But the State is serving as de facto guarantor for all, isn't it?

Nope.

 

[Big Black Dog]

I live in Illinois and you can quote me on this... "That's what you get when you bite off more than you can chew and you keep going back for more of the same old shit sandwich."

 

[Kondor3]

"...They dont have it. The municipality files bankruptcy, erasing all contracts and claims. And you're OUTADERE!"

But the State is serving as de facto guarantor for all, isn't it?

Nope.

I stand corrected.

Then why is the State Government and the Governor so concerned?

If the State is not on-the-hook... de jure or de facto... then why so much fuss in Springfield?

 

[The Rabbi]

"...They dont have it. The municipality files bankruptcy, erasing all contracts and claims. And you're OUTADERE!"

But the State is serving as de facto guarantor for all, isn't it?

Oh, and, how many village-halls do you think will go up in flames within 30 days of declaring bankruptcy and screwing-over their union-member employees?

I'm neither a State Worker nor a Union Member but such an outcome would not surprise me in the slightest - especially with the union-member police looking the other way - and the union-member fire department getting there too late to save the building - whoops! ;-)

And not a solid clue in sight, as to who or why...

The mentality being: "Burn us down to the ground and we will go all Wagnerian-Nihilist on you and return the favor - if we go down, you go down."

I would hope they would have more professionalism than to do something like that. But if they did, fuck 'em. ANd fuck the people of IL for continuing to elect such spineless corrupt bastards.

 

[Kondor3]

"...I would hope they would have more professionalism than to do something like that..."

You can always pull the retirement pensions of those folk and find out...

 

[Two Thumbs]

Don't worry everyone.

The union is going to toss it's retirees under the bus, so current, dues paying members will be raking it in.