Good and bad news for Illinois

[blastoff]

It's Illinois. The pols and the union folks have been joined at the hip for decades. It's I scratch yours, you scratch mine, and screw everyone who's not a part of our cozy club.

And the fact that the state prison has an entire Elected Officials wing has nothing to do with anything.

 

[martybegan]

Indeed. And both parties agreed to those pensions. Case closed.

Everything beyond that is mere juicy rationalization in an attempt to justify a contemplated breach of faith and contracts.

And ex-Ilinois guys like myself left...... you pay for it.

Yep.

I don't like it.

But I believe that is what we should do.

Even if we have to cut a lot of other things down to the bare bone, in order to do it.

So the main purpose of a state government is to be a retirement system for its workers, even at the expense of other services it is supposed to provide?

 

[Wyatt earp]

The Worse thing about Illinios is we had our share of republican governors while I was living there/growing up. I think we only had two Democrats since 1965, I dont know how they managed to let it get this bad. Well I left in 2004 I forgot who is Govenor now.Quinn?

 

[Kondor3]

Yeah, Bear, it's Patrick Quinn - he was Lieutenant-Governor on the day when Rod Blageovich was impeached and kicked out of the Governor's Mansion, so Pat took over automatically, according to the Illinois State Constitution. And, since then, the guy has managed to get elected on his own, once, quite possibly because the Republicans did not field a candidate capable of beating the Democrats.

 

[Mr. H.]

It's a shame that Glen Poshard was not elected governor back when.
And I'm a Republican!

 

[Mr. H.]

Well, we are finally getting a hydraulic fracturing bill (not that we needed one in the first place).
And concealed carry.
Funny how they were able to fast-track same-sex marriage and medical marijuana.

 

[Kondor3]

"...So the main purpose of a state government is to be a retirement system for its workers, even at the expense of other services it is supposed to provide?"

( taking-up the mantle of a State Worker briefly, as a bit of play-acting, as an aid to conversation )

No, the purpose of a State government is to govern the State, and to do the things that the cities and townships and counties cannot, within the boundaries of our State.

In order to govern and in order to "do the things", you need State Workers like me.

Being a State Worker with a pension, I may not even get the same kind of Social Security or other retirement benefits that my fellow citizens get, and I have been working, hard and faithfully, on behalf of The People of our State, for the past 30 years, relying upon your promise that I would have a pension of X when it came time for me to retire.

I have just retired. Coupled with other resources, my State Pension makes it possible for us to continue a decent Standard of Living in our golden years. I am now too old to go back to work and to save for 20 or 30 years so that we can live halfway decently if you breach both faith and contract and eliminate or greatly reduce my State Pension benefits.

I trusted you. My wife trusted you. I built my working life upon service to The People of our State, and you and I both agreed to this Pension Benefit many years ago, and we both ratified and confirmed the agreement many times over the years, so we both had ample opportunity to back out of the agreement or to modify it prior to my retirement.

And now you want to violate that trust and to tell me that you are welching on our agreement - putting the finances of my wife and I in grave jeopardy and to condemn us to a much lower standard of living in our final years - all because you wake up one morning and decide you can't sustain the agreement any longer - so that justifies you screwing us over?

See you in Federal court, asshole... me, and a few-score thousand of my brothers and sisters who are or who have spent much of our lives in dedicated service to our State.

-------------------

< takes-off fake State Worker's hat and turns-on 'behave yourself' switch again - nothing personal - please do not be offended >

 

[Mr. H.]

Hats off to ya, K3. Believe me I've contributed in some fashion to these pensions.
I didn't screw up the system.

Mrs. H. liquidated her SURS funds. Yes we took a hit, but had she left it in it may have all gotten swept away.

 

[blastoff]

So what's the count on Illinois ex-govs currently in the slammer, one or two?

 

[martybegan]

"...So the main purpose of a state government is to be a retirement system for its workers, even at the expense of other services it is supposed to provide?"

( taking-up the mantle of a State Worker briefly, as a bit of play-acting, as an aid to conversation )

No, the purpose of a State government is to govern the State, and to do the things that the cities and townships and counties cannot, within the boundaries of our State.

In order to govern and in order to "do the things", you need State Workers like me.

Being a State Worker with a pension, I may not even get the same kind of Social Security or other retirement benefits that my fellow citizens get, and I have been working, hard and faithfully, on behalf of The People of our State, for the past 30 years, relying upon your promise that I would have a pension of X when it came time for me to retire.

I have just retired. Coupled with other resources, my State Pension makes it possible for us to continue a decent Standard of Living in our golden years. I am now too old to go back to work and to save for 20 or 30 years so that we can live halfway decently if you breach both faith and contract and eliminate or greatly reduce my State Pension benefits.

I trusted you. My wife trusted you. I built my working life upon service to The People of our State, and you and I both agreed to this Pension Benefit many years ago, and we both ratified and confirmed the agreement many times over the years, so we both had ample opportunity to back out of the agreement or to modify it prior to my retirement.

And now you want to violate that trust and to tell me that you are welching on our agreement - putting the finances of my wife and I in grave jeopardy and to condemn us to a much lower standard of living in our final years - all because you wake up one morning and decide you can't sustain the agreement any longer - so that justifies you screwing us over?

See you in Federal court, asshole... me, and a few-score thousand of my brothers and sisters who are or who have spent much of our lives in dedicated service to our State.

-------------------

< takes-off fake State Worker's hat and turns-on 'behave yourself' switch again - nothing personal - please do not be offended >

The prime issue is that an amendment to a state's consitution that guarnatees state worker pensions should have never happened in the first place.

So if the pension costs continue to rise the state is left with two options, cut services and/or raise taxes, both of which would lead to a massive exodus of the productive population. Basically look at detroit on a state level.

So the maintenance of state worker pensions, pensions which were set up by people courting the state unions for votes (shifty if you ask me) overrides the surivival of the states ability to govern and maintain a productive population?

 

[Mr. H.]

So what's the count on Illinois ex-govs currently in the slammer, one or two?

And how many ex-Senators SHOULD be in the slammer?

One.

 

[Kondor3]

So what's the count on Illinois ex-govs currently in the slammer, one or two?

One-and-a-half ( 1-1/2 )...

Blago (Rod Blageovich) is in a Federal pen in Littleton, CO, and (George) Ryan is under confinement at-home until July 4, 2013, when his sentence is over. He was released from prison in January 2013 to spend the last 6 months of his sentence at-home.

 

[Seawytch]

Bout time.

Just who in the hell expects taxpayers to continue to fund they're lives after they retire??.

Military members?

The military is in no way shape or form like a Town or City who's taxpayers are being forced to support public sector workers for life.

Only some idiot like you would even deign to compare the two.

You asked a question. Not my problem if you don't like the answer. It doesn't make it any less true.

http://www.military.com/features/0,15240,218378,00.html

 

[The Rabbi]

Military members?

The military is in no way shape or form like a Town or City who's taxpayers are being forced to support public sector workers for life.

Only some idiot like you would even deign to compare the two.

You asked a question. Not my problem if you don't like the answer. It doesn't make it any less true.

Advisory Panels Say Military Benefits Unsustainable

Because the answer isn't true?

 

[g5000]

Illinois is just the beginning.

Wall Street promised unrealistic returns to everyone, and then proceeded to rob them blind.

Not just pulic employee pensions. Your 401k, your city treasury, your state treasury, everyone on the planet. You have been robbed in several ways.

And Wall Street continues to do so at will.

When the bubble was being formed, politicians from both parties began handing out extra benefits like candy, and scaling back on government contributions to the plans. Wall Street really led them down the primrose path.

And now they are ALL underfunded. Every one of them. Not just Illinois.

It really baffles the shit out of me why politicians and the broker-dealers are not all hanging from lamp posts.

 

[martybegan]

Illinois is just the beginning.

Wall Street promised unrealistic returns to everyone, and then proceeded to rob them blind.

Not just pulic employee pensions. Your 401k, your city treasury, your state treasury, everyone on the planet. You have been robbed in several ways.

And Wall Street continues to do so at will.

When the bubble was being formed, politicians from both parties began handing out extra benefits like candy, and scaling back on government contributions to the plans. Wall Street really led them down the primrose path.

And now they are ALL underfunded. Every one of them. Not just Illinois.

It really baffles the shit out of me why politicians and the broker-dealers are not all hanging from lamp posts.

You can blame wall street for alot of things, but setting the ROR estimates in public pensions is not one of them. Blame the pension administrators and thier poltitcal bosses at the state/local level for that one.

The reason they overestimated thier ROR's is that it allowed them to put less money into the yearly budgets for pension contributions, thus making thier books "balanced." Then when the time comes at the end of the year and they are short, they can point to the crappy ROR and not thier manipulation of the budgeting as the cause.

 

[Seawytch]

The military is in no way shape or form like a Town or City who's taxpayers are being forced to support public sector workers for life.

Only some idiot like you would even deign to compare the two.

You asked a question. Not my problem if you don't like the answer. It doesn't make it any less true.

Advisory Panels Say Military Benefits Unsustainable

Because the answer isn't true?

Oh? Care to explain the mental gymnastics required to come to that conclusion?

You, the taxpayer, fund my retirement for the rest of my life.

 

[JoeB131]

The tax increase happened three years ago, where have you been.

Also, state income tax can be deducted from your federal income tax. So it really isn't as big of a bite as you think it is, as it puts you in a lower tax bracket if you itemize.

Yes! Higher taxes actually SAVE you money. Thanks, Joe.


Where do they teach this stuff??

Which isn't what I said, but that's okay.

Yup, i pay about $800.00 more in State income Tax.

But I got about $1200 more back on my Federal Return after deducting the state tax on Schedule A.

So why this does probably suck for rich people in IL, for working class folks, not so much.

 

[The Rabbi]

You asked a question. Not my problem if you don't like the answer. It doesn't make it any less true.

Advisory Panels Say Military Benefits Unsustainable

Because the answer isn't true?

Oh? Care to explain the mental gymnastics required to come to that conclusion?

You, the taxpayer, fund my retirement for the rest of my life.

Remind me what state you're in.

 

[Lovebears65]

Bout time.

Just who in the hell expects taxpayers to continue to fund they're lives after they retire??.

Military members?

I think someone fighting for your freedom and their life is entitled to a pension . Not someone who is an office all day . The only other people I think the tax payers should pay is firefighters and police officers..