Golden calf proves OWS did not read Bible

[Sunshine]

Well then you never read a single thing that Jesus said, because the politics of rich and poor, Jesus ALWAYS sided with the poor. Always, unwavering. Whenever it was poor vs rich, Jesus sided with the poor.

Seriously. Read your bible... it's unquestionable.

The bible was obviously written by some very poor people to have Jesus side so much with the poor.

He always sided with the poor? Would you like to bet on that, because I can think of at least one instance where people like you berated him for hanging out with rich people and ignoring the poor.

Yea, actually I would like to bet on that. Let's see how much you know your little book, fool.

Mark 4:7. You lost your cyber dollar there Photonic.

 

[Dragon]

[
Nope, because I know better, I know there are people who want the rich to be poor.

I remember from the 1984 election, a real zinger of a quip that Mondale said about Reagan: "It's not what he doesn't know that scares me, it's what he knows for a fact that just ain't so!"

This is another example. Nobody wants the rich to be poor. The left's position, actually, is that nobody should be poor. That includes those who are currently rich.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Well then you never read a single thing that Jesus said, because the politics of rich and poor, Jesus ALWAYS sided with the poor. Always, unwavering. Whenever it was poor vs rich, Jesus sided with the poor.

Seriously. Read your bible... it's unquestionable.

The bible was obviously written by some very poor people to have Jesus side so much with the poor.

He always sided with the poor? Would you like to bet on that, because I can think of at least one instance where people like you berated him for hanging out with rich people and ignoring the poor.

Well, every passage I read anyway. Let's read the bible and find out! TO THE STUDY!

You should try reading the whole thing instead of just the passages you agree with. Go read Matthew 26:6-10 and notice how he rebukes his disciples for worrying more about the poor than the good dead that Mary is doing. Jesus is apolitical, he is neither liberal or conservative, neither socialist or capitalist, neither Republican or Democrat, anyone that tries to make him over into something they approve of is wrong.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

So what is the point? That people who love money should stop loving their money and give it to people who don't love money? But then, what would someone who doesn't love money do with all that money? Give it to the people who used to love money but stopped and gave it all away?

Okay, if we must deal with the bible as it (really doesn't) pertain to US secular government policy:

Did or did not the disciples lay down their worldly possessions to follow Christ?

They did not. That is proven by the fact that Jesus found them out in their fishing boats after his death and resurrection. They apparently took a sabbatical, but they did not give up their possessions.

Also, if you read Paul's epistles, it is pretty clear he worked to support himself and his ministry.

 

[Photonic]

He always sided with the poor? Would you like to bet on that, because I can think of at least one instance where people like you berated him for hanging out with rich people and ignoring the poor.

Yea, actually I would like to bet on that. Let's see how much you know your little book, fool.

Mark 4:7. You lost your cyber dollar there Photonic.

Matthew 5:3, your move.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Well then you never read a single thing that Jesus said, because the politics of rich and poor, Jesus ALWAYS sided with the poor. Always, unwavering. Whenever it was poor vs rich, Jesus sided with the poor.

Seriously. Read your bible... it's unquestionable.

The bible was obviously written by some very poor people to have Jesus side so much with the poor.

He always sided with the poor? Would you like to bet on that, because I can think of at least one instance where people like you berated him for hanging out with rich people and ignoring the poor.

Yep... one instance that I recall is when he was staying at Bethany and he was getting anointed with expensive oils and perfumes(or something close to that), One of the Apostles said... "shouldn't we sell this stuff and give the money to the poor"... Jesus replied that there will always be poor among you, but you will not always have me.

In Jesus' case... you know... being the Son of God and all? I can see his point. But I think it's kind of arrogant of you to use that one example and claim it as the passage that makes up your core philosophy.

Almost everywhere else in the Bible, it was the exact opposite.

Unlike you, I read the whole Bible, and do not have a core philosophy that relies on using proof scriptures, My entire point in this thread is that anyone who tries to argue that Jesus supports any political philosophy is wrong, yet you insist on turning that into me picking which philosophy I like and using Jesus to reject anything else.

Tell you what, why don't you use the forum search function and point out every time I judged people, or tired to use Jesus to justify my political position? Go ahead, I have time, no real plans today, and a holiday is coming up, so I won't be busy this week.

While you are doing that why don't you prove you are better than me by not doing that yourself?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

What a philosophy...Yeah... that's what liberal Christians are saying... exactly

Did you ever stop to think... Just one freakin' minute... that NO ONE wants the rich to be poor?

Nope, because I know better, I know there are people who want the rich to be poor.



How do you reconcile your belief that the rich have too much with your statement that no one wants them to be poor? Why do you want to make the less than rich dependent on a system that prevents people from having too much.



Again, no. I actually understand how things work, and I actually know that the rich bear a disproportionate burden when things go bad, like they did in the last recession. Knowing all of that it makes it impossible to wrap my brain around the false premise that nothing affects them.

I'll never get Conservatism... and I will never, ever think that Conservative Christians are really Christians at all... they are idolators of money.

You will never get it because you prefer to live in a fantasy world where your beliefs trump facts. You even admitted that your beliefs trump God, which makes it pretty hard for anyone to reason with you.

The rich bear a disproportionate burden when things go bad?? Right. They privatize their profits saying "they earned it" and they Socialize their losses through begging the government for money.

Edit: i live in a fantasy world? Nahh... I am a seeker of truth. You rationalize the bible to fit your agenda.

I rationalize the Bible? Can you point out a single time in this thread I quoted the Bible to defend whatever you think my agenda is? I think that, if you go back and actually read the thread, you will see that I am pointing out how you, and others, are wrong to use the Bible to support your agenda. You cannot even tell me what my agenda is because you never asked, you just assumed.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Well then you never read a single thing that Jesus said, because the politics of rich and poor, Jesus ALWAYS sided with the poor. Always, unwavering. Whenever it was poor vs rich, Jesus sided with the poor.

Seriously. Read your bible... it's unquestionable.

The bible was obviously written by some very poor people to have Jesus side so much with the poor.

He always sided with the poor? Would you like to bet on that, because I can think of at least one instance where people like you berated him for hanging out with rich people and ignoring the poor.

Yea, actually I would like to bet on that. Let's see how much you know your little book, fool.

You should go back and read Steelplate's post just two posts ahead of yours before you bet, even he knew what I was thinking of.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

[
Nope, because I know better, I know there are people who want the rich to be poor.

I remember from the 1984 election, a real zinger of a quip that Mondale said about Reagan: "It's not what he doesn't know that scares me, it's what he knows for a fact that just ain't so!"

This is another example. Nobody wants the rich to be poor. The left's position, actually, is that nobody should be poor. That includes those who are currently rich.

Is your position that no one anywhere in the world wants the rich to be poor? If not, you should just admit I am right, if it is I will be happy to disabuse you of what you know that just ain't so.

 

[Cowman]

He always sided with the poor? Would you like to bet on that, because I can think of at least one instance where people like you berated him for hanging out with rich people and ignoring the poor.

Well, every passage I read anyway. Let's read the bible and find out! TO THE STUDY!

You should try reading the whole thing instead of just the passages you agree with. Go read Matthew 26:6-10 and notice how he rebukes his disciples for worrying more about the poor than the good dead that Mary is doing. Jesus is apolitical, he is neither liberal or conservative, neither socialist or capitalist, neither Republican or Democrat, anyone that tries to make him over into something they approve of is wrong.

I have read the whole bible before, but I don't remember it all.

You're telling me if I read only Jesus's remarks... the ones written in red in my bible, I would somehow be taking things out of context?

He always sided with the poor? Would you like to bet on that, because I can think of at least one instance where people like you berated him for hanging out with rich people and ignoring the poor.

Well, every passage I read anyway. Let's read the bible and find out! TO THE STUDY!

When Mary Magdalene, I believe it was, got chastized by Judas for wasting expensive perfume to anoint Jesus' feet because the money could have been given to the poor, Jesus said, 'The poor will be with us always, but you will not always have me.' Also his little band was not poor. They had a treasury which they called 'the purse.' Judas Iscariot carried the purse. I'm thinking I read that he frequently stole from it and there was enough in the 'purse' that no one missed it. Yes, John 12:6 says Judas made that assertion because he was stealing from the purse not because he cared about the poor.

Jesus himself was NOT poor. He was not born in a stable because his family was poor. He was born in a stable because the inn was full. Has no one actually read the story of the Nativity? Sheesh! His family could afford a hotel and owed taxes. So they weren't flat broke. His father was a tradesman and his trade paid good money. It is clear in Jesus' teachings that He was educated, probably in the Egyptian mystery schools. It is clear He could read when He was found teaching from the scrolls in the Temple at age of about 12. He also references His ability to read when He said, 'it is written that man does not live by bread alone.' We also know He could write because he wrote in the sand when he stopped the good ole boys from stoning the woman. His family was well off enough to send Him to school and well off enough that He had enough credibility to gain followers. If He had been some poor guttersnipe no one would have paid Him any mind whatsoever.

Well alright then! Now we're getting somewhere. Now, there's one for you if that passage is in the bible. Now, let's look at all the other passages that Jesus himself spoke of, and we'll see where he stands on the rich vs the poor.

I think it'll be a fun little project.

I'm actually doing it right now, so you don't have to if you don't want to.

 

[Steelplate]

Nope, because I know better, I know there are people who want the rich to be poor.



How do you reconcile your belief that the rich have too much with your statement that no one wants them to be poor? Why do you want to make the less than rich dependent on a system that prevents people from having too much.



Again, no. I actually understand how things work, and I actually know that the rich bear a disproportionate burden when things go bad, like they did in the last recession. Knowing all of that it makes it impossible to wrap my brain around the false premise that nothing affects them.



You will never get it because you prefer to live in a fantasy world where your beliefs trump facts. You even admitted that your beliefs trump God, which makes it pretty hard for anyone to reason with you.

The rich bear a disproportionate burden when things go bad?? Right. They privatize their profits saying "they earned it" and they Socialize their losses through begging the government for money.

Edit: i live in a fantasy world? Nahh... I am a seeker of truth. You rationalize the bible to fit your agenda.

I rationalize the Bible? Can you point out a single time in this thread I quoted the Bible to defend whatever you think my agenda is? I think that, if you go back and actually read the thread, you will see that I am pointing out how you, and others, are wrong to use the Bible to support your agenda. You cannot even tell me what my agenda is because you never asked, you just assumed.

Well, when one says... yeah... Jesus helped the poor... but he wouldn't want GOVERNMENT to do it.... that's pushing an agenda... I wouldn't think that Jesus would care where the help comes from.

 

[Steelplate]

He always sided with the poor? Would you like to bet on that, because I can think of at least one instance where people like you berated him for hanging out with rich people and ignoring the poor.

Yea, actually I would like to bet on that. Let's see how much you know your little book, fool.

You should go back and read Steelplate's post just two posts ahead of yours before you bet, even he knew what I was thinking of.

That's because I READ THE BIBLE... funny how what? Two posts ago you said.."that's because, unlike you.. I read the bible".

Seems as though judgmentalism is running rampant with us Christians...That's actually worse than judgmentalism... Is on the borderline of bearing false witness...which in this place... is a daily occurrence for honestly? Just about every one of us.

Imagine that, we all break commandments, we all fall short of God's expectations of us.

 

[Dragon]

Is your position that no one anywhere in the world wants the rich to be poor?

It is my position that:

1) I don't know of anyone who does;
2) I doubt that you do either; and
3) If any people do want that their numbers are so insignificant that there is no point of mentioning them other than to create a false impression.

 

[Cowman]

I've just never understood why the most vocally resistant to helping the poor and programs for the poor are the religious people who claim to follow Jesus.

 

[Steelplate]

Is your position that no one anywhere in the world wants the rich to be poor?

It is my position that:

1) I don't know of anyone who does;
2) I doubt that you do either; and
3) If any people do want that their numbers are so insignificant that there is no point of mentioning them other than to create a false impression.

You are correct Dragon... That's just more of the same old extreme ideological vomiting that we hear every day.

 

[Steelplate]

I've just never understood why the most vocally resistant to helping the poor and programs for the poor are the religious people who claim to follow Jesus.

Me neither.

 

[Cowman]

Come now, you rich, weep and howl for your miseries which are coming upon you. Your riches have rotted and your garments have become moth-eaten. Your gold and your silver have rusted; and their rust will be a witness against you and will consume your flesh like fire. It is in the last days that you have stored up your treasure! Behold, the pay of the laborers who mowed your fields, and which has been withheld by you, cries out against you; and the outcry of those who did the harvesting has reached the ears of the Lord of Sabaoth. You have lived luxuriously on the earth and led a life of wanton pleasure; you have fattened your hearts in a day of slaughter. You have condemned and put to death the righteous man; he does not resist you. - James 5:1-6

Give to him who asks of you, and do not turn away from him who wants to borrow from you. - Matthew 5:42

If you lend money to My people, to the poor among you, you are not to act as a creditor to him; you shall not charge him interest. -Exodus 22:25

Now in case a countryman of yours becomes poor and his means with regard to you falter, then you are to sustain him, like a stranger or a sojourner, that he may live with you. Do not take usurious interest from him, but revere your God, that your countryman may live with you. You shall not give him your silver at interest, nor your food for gain. - Leviticus 25:35-37

If there is a poor man among you, one of your brothers, in any of the towns of the land which the LORD your God is giving you, you shall not harden your heart, nor close your hand to your poor brother; but you shall freely open your hand to him, and generously lend him sufficient for his need in whatever he lacks. - Deut. 15:7


The bible is incredibly "socialist"!

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Well, every passage I read anyway. Let's read the bible and find out! TO THE STUDY!

You should try reading the whole thing instead of just the passages you agree with. Go read Matthew 26:6-10 and notice how he rebukes his disciples for worrying more about the poor than the good dead that Mary is doing. Jesus is apolitical, he is neither liberal or conservative, neither socialist or capitalist, neither Republican or Democrat, anyone that tries to make him over into something they approve of is wrong.

I have read the whole bible before, but I don't remember it all.

You're telling me if I read only Jesus's remarks... the ones written in red in my bible, I would somehow be taking things out of context?

How is reading remarks without getting the surrounding context not taking things out of context?

Well, every passage I read anyway. Let's read the bible and find out! TO THE STUDY!

When Mary Magdalene, I believe it was, got chastized by Judas for wasting expensive perfume to anoint Jesus' feet because the money could have been given to the poor, Jesus said, 'The poor will be with us always, but you will not always have me.' Also his little band was not poor. They had a treasury which they called 'the purse.' Judas Iscariot carried the purse. I'm thinking I read that he frequently stole from it and there was enough in the 'purse' that no one missed it. Yes, John 12:6 says Judas made that assertion because he was stealing from the purse not because he cared about the poor.

Jesus himself was NOT poor. He was not born in a stable because his family was poor. He was born in a stable because the inn was full. Has no one actually read the story of the Nativity? Sheesh! His family could afford a hotel and owed taxes. So they weren't flat broke. His father was a tradesman and his trade paid good money. It is clear in Jesus' teachings that He was educated, probably in the Egyptian mystery schools. It is clear He could read when He was found teaching from the scrolls in the Temple at age of about 12. He also references His ability to read when He said, 'it is written that man does not live by bread alone.' We also know He could write because he wrote in the sand when he stopped the good ole boys from stoning the woman. His family was well off enough to send Him to school and well off enough that He had enough credibility to gain followers. If He had been some poor guttersnipe no one would have paid Him any mind whatsoever.

Well alright then! Now we're getting somewhere. Now, there's one for you if that passage is in the bible. Now, let's look at all the other passages that Jesus himself spoke of, and we'll see where he stands on the rich vs the poor.

I think it'll be a fun little project.

I'm actually doing it right now, so you don't have to if you don't want to.

If it is in the Bible?

Tell you what, why don't we go through the Bible like you said and see what Jesus said about the poor.

Matt 5:3 Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Matt 11:5 The blind receive sight, the lame walk, those who have leprosy are cured, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, and the good news is preached to the poor.

Not quite what you wanted, is it? Don't worry, the next is closer.

Matt 19:21 Jesus answered, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."

In order for that to work you have to start by doing it yourself, not try to force others to do it at gunpoint.

Matt 26:9-11 For this ointment might have been sold for much, and given to the poor. When Jesus understood it, he said unto them, Why trouble ye the woman? for she hath wrought a good work upon me. For ye have the poor always with you; but me ye have not always.

There is that passage you thought wasn't in the Bible.

Mark 10:21 Jesus looked at him and loved him. “One thing you lack,” he said. “Go, sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”

Still has to start with you, not the government.

Mark 12:42-43 And there came a certain poor widow, and she threw in two mites, which make a farthing. And he called unto him his disciples, and saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That this poor widow hath cast more in , than all they which have cast into the treasury: They all gave out of their wealth; but she, out of her poverty, put in everything--all she had to live on."

If we were to apply your logic to this passage I could argue that Jesus thinks it is OK to tax poor people. Fortunately for you, I do not use Jesus to justify anything, I allow my arguments to stand on their own logic.

Luke 6:20 And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples, and said, Blessed be ye poor: for yours is the kingdom of God.

Does that mean that if the government gives poor people money they loose out on the Kingdom of Heaven?

There are other verses, but by now you should have the idea that what you think and what the Bible actually says do not necessarily agree. If you want to argue for taxing the rich to give money to the poor, feel free. Just do yourself a favor and stop trying to argue that the Bible agrees with you.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

The rich bear a disproportionate burden when things go bad?? Right. They privatize their profits saying "they earned it" and they Socialize their losses through begging the government for money.

Edit: i live in a fantasy world? Nahh... I am a seeker of truth. You rationalize the bible to fit your agenda.

I rationalize the Bible? Can you point out a single time in this thread I quoted the Bible to defend whatever you think my agenda is? I think that, if you go back and actually read the thread, you will see that I am pointing out how you, and others, are wrong to use the Bible to support your agenda. You cannot even tell me what my agenda is because you never asked, you just assumed.

Well, when one says... yeah... Jesus helped the poor... but he wouldn't want GOVERNMENT to do it.... that's pushing an agenda... I wouldn't think that Jesus would care where the help comes from.

When one says that, but I never said that, what I said is that you are wrong to argue that Jesus would support the use of taxes to take care of the poor. Your problem is that you think that means I have an agenda that would argue Jesus comes down on the other side, which is why I keep pointing out you are wrong.

By the way, if you think Jesus does not care where the help comes from you are wrong, again. He obviously expected people with money to voluntarily contribute to help the poor. The problem with using taxes is that, despite your misguided and delusional belief that taxes are paid by rich people, most taxes in this country come out of the pockets of middle class and working poor. Whenever taxes are raised on high income earners they are always raised on lower income workers later, which explains why I oppose tax hikes in general, the rich are never the only ones that pay them.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Yea, actually I would like to bet on that. Let's see how much you know your little book, fool.

You should go back and read Steelplate's post just two posts ahead of yours before you bet, even he knew what I was thinking of.

That's because I READ THE BIBLE... funny how what? Two posts ago you said.."that's because, unlike you.. I read the bible".

Seems as though judgmentalism is running rampant with us Christians...That's actually worse than judgmentalism... Is on the borderline of bearing false witness...which in this place... is a daily occurrence for honestly? Just about every one of us.

Imagine that, we all break commandments, we all fall short of God's expectations of us.

When was the last time you read the Bible cover to cover? Unlike you, I read (present tense) the Bible, not read (past tense) the Bible.

If you actually read the Bible you would not be trying to argue that Jesus does not care where the money comes from. Nor would you try to argue that a Buddhist can get into heaven by rejecting Jesus, you would know the Bible does not support that position.

By the way, how do you reconcile your belief that everyone actively breaks commandments with 1 John 3:8-9 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God?