God's Wrath Against Mankind

[Sweet_Caroline]

I fall more into this camp.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2XK59wTDKk]Interview With God - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Here it comes, People! "Peace and Joy" May it rain down upon you as you read these blessed Words of Life.......

It is written:

Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand. And we rejoice in the hope of the glory of God. Not only so, but we also rejoice in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverence, character, and character, hope, And hope does not disappoint us, because God has poured out his love into our hearts by the Holy Spirit, whom he has given us.

You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly.

Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous man, though for a good man someone might possibly dare to die.

But God demonstrated his own love for us in this: While we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God's wrath through him! For if, we were God's enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life!

Not only in this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation! - Romans 5: 1 - 11

This is the good news, beloved! We have been forgiven! Not by our own works - lest anyone should boast - but through Jesus Christ Our Lord and Savior. Imagine it! God loved us while we were yet sinners! He sent His Only begotten Son to shed his blood on Calvarys tree for remission of our sins! That is how much our God loves us! That is how great his love is for us even while we were yet sinners! Oh Glory to God! Who would dare neglect so great a salvation? So great a gift? If there could have been any other way, if there could have been another way for redeeming mankind - surely God would have spared his own Son! Yet he did not. Because there was no other way! Jesus Christ IS the Way. Jesus Christ IS the Truth. Jesus Christ IS the Life. There IS no way to the Father except through the Son!

It is written: For God so loved the word that he gave His Only Begotten Son, that whosover believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and Only Son. This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved the darkness instead of the light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. But whoever lives by the truth comes to the light, so that it may be seen plainly what he has done has been done through God. - John 3:16 - 21

 

[rightwinger]

That "Wrath of God" shit was written in simpler times

Early civilizations could not be sold on a God where they would eventually receive their rewards in heaven. A big stick was necessary to say....Worship this God or you will be punished. God is angry, god is vindictive, god will punish those who stray

With Christians, God was sold as a more loving God. One whom you wanted to please. One who rewarded rather than punished

 

[strollingbones]

man?

are you sure about that kg?

matthew 15:24

no one is witnessing here...now are they...more like just cutting and pasting....

 

[strollingbones]

shall we discuss what the bible says about this type of grandstanding? and where you are instructed to pray?

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Death through Adam, Life through Christ

It is written:

Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all have sinned - for before the law was given, sin was in the world. But sin is not taken into account when there is no alw. Nevethelss, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who was a pattern of the one to come.

But the gift is not like the trespass, For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God's grace of the one man, Jesus Chrsit, overflow to the many! Again, the gift of God is not like the result of the one man's sin: The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification. For if, by the trespass of one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God's abundant provision of grace of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ. Consequently, just as the result of one tresspass was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justifcation that brings life for all men.

For just as through the disobedience of the one man ( Adam ) the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of one man ( Jesus Christ ) the many will be made righteous. The law was added so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more, so that, just as sin reigned in death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. Romans 5: 1 - 21

 

[Chuckt]

God is in many ways a lot like me....

I created my children, I raised them, fed them, protected them. To them, I was much like a god who is responsible for their well being

Yet I never demanded that my children spend one day a week praising me. I never made them give thanks for what I brought them. I never punished them for not praising me enough. I never threatened them if they failed to worship me

Personally, I find that stuff awkward and pretentious. I am not that vain that I demand constant praise. Neither is God

He is a Father.
He is a King.
He is a lot more.

If you don't require your children to honor you or their mother, are you being a parent?
If you don't teach your kids to be polite, are you being a parent?
Parents and other people get respect but they aren't as important as God.

I've worked for jobs where some people got excessive amounts of respect because the job wouldn't function without them. God's role requires that things work a certain way to have our cohesion in the world.

I do not require that my children grovel before me in fear of what I might do to them. I do not demand they spend one day a week honoring me.

I am happy with an occaisional smile and a big hug once in a while

So is God

Maybe you are okay with how they treat you but other people aren't respected and there is elder abuse.

The 90-year-old – whose on-screen problems were always easily resolved when he played all-American boy Andy Hardy – told a Senate hearing of a real-life drama involving elder abuse, and he spoke from his personal case history, he said.

"I felt trapped, scared, used and frustrated," testified Rooney, who also said he and his (ninth) wife Jan were made to go hungry, he had medicine withheld from him and that his Oscar was even sold off. "But above all, when a man feels helpless, it's terrible," said the screen legend.

According to a court case in Los Angeles, Rooney has accused his stepson, Chris Aber, of elder abuse, and has obtained a restraining order against him. Aber denies Rooney's claims, as does Jan Rooney, say news reports.

Mickey Rooney Elder Abuse: It Made Me Feel Trapped : People.com

When you have people denying God's existence because they want "proof" then how would God have a Utopia on the new earth without there being proof of his goodness in worship? I could make an excuse that I don't have to follow or obey the laws because you aren't following or obeying the laws and then anarchy becomes existent.

These are the new social norms that have to be followed or else there would never be peace and harmony.

 

[Chuckt]

man?

are you sure about that kg?

matthew 15:24

no one is witnessing here...now are they...more like just cutting and pasting....

Did you ever do any fishing in the dead sea? Why would it not be a good idea? The salt content is probably 5 or 6 times that of the ocean. There is witnessing here but I consider this forum the dead sea. I think that is why the church is the ekklesia. Ek means "out". We have to go out of the world to have church just like Moses had to lead the children of Israel out of Egypt to worship God.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Dead to Sin, Alive in Christ

It is written:

What shall we say then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? By no means! We died to sin, how can we live in it any longer?

Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Jesus Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.

If we have been united with him like this in his death, we will certainly also be united with him in his resurrection. For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin - because anyone who has died has been freed from sin.

Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again, death no longer has mastery over him. The death he died, he died to sin once for all but the life he lives, he lives to God.

In the same way count yourselves dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.

Therefore do not let sin reign over your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires, Do not offer the parts of your body to sin, as instruments of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God, as those who have been brought from death to life and offer the parts of your body to him as instruments of righteousness.

For sin shall not be your master, because you are not under the law but under grace. - Romans 6:1-14

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Slaves to Righteousness

It is written:

What then? Shall we sin because we are not under the law? By no means!

Don't you know that when you offer yourselves to someone to obey him as slaves, you are slaves to the one whom you obey?

- Whether you are slaves to sin which leads to death, or to obedience which leads to righteousness?

But thanks be to God that, though you used to be slaves to sin, you wholeheartedly obeyed the form of teaching to which you were entrusted. You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.

I put this in human terms because you are weak in your natural selves. Just as you used to offer the parts of your body in slavery to impurity and to ever-increasing wickedness, so now offer them in slavery to righteousness leading to holiness. When you were slaves to sin, you were free from the control of righteousness.

What benefit did you reap at that time from the things you are now ashamed of? Those things result in death!

But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves to God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness, and the result is eternal life.

For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

- Romans 6: 15-23

 

[rightwinger]

Dead to Sin, Alive in Christ

It is written:

What shall we say then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? By no means! We died to sin, how can we live in it any longer?

Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Jesus Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.

If we have been united with him like this in his death, we will certainly also be united with him in his resurrection. For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin - because anyone who has died has been freed from sin.

Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again, death no longer has mastery over him. The death he died, he died to sin once for all but the life he lives, he lives to God.

In the same way count yourselves dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.

Therefore do not let sin reign over your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires, Do not offer the parts of your body to sin, as instruments of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God, as those who have been brought from death to life and offer the parts of your body to him as instruments of righteousness.

For sin shall not be your master, because you are not under the law but under grace. - Romans 6:1-14

God hates cut and paste

Tell him how you really feel

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

An Illustration of Marriage

It is written:

Do you know, brothers - for I am speaking to men who know the law - that the law has authority over a man only as long as he lives?

For example, by law a married woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive, but if her husband dies, she is released from the law of marriage. So then, if she marries another man while her husband is still alive, she is called an aduteress. But if her husband dies, she is released from that law and is not an adultress, even though she marries another man.

So, my brothers, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit to God.

For when we were controlled by the sinful nature, the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in our bodies, so that we bore fruit for death. But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.
- Romans 7: 1 : 6

 

[Chuckt]

God hates cut and paste

Tell him how you really feel

God really does love cut and paste:

Jeremiah 1:9 ¶ Then the LORD put forth his hand, and touched my mouth. And the LORD said unto me, Behold, I have put my words in thy mouth.

Isaiah 51:16 And I have put my words in thy mouth, and I have covered thee in the shadow of mine hand, that I may plant the heavens, and lay the foundations of the earth, and say unto Zion, Thou art my people.

Deuteronomy 18:18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.

Usually the reason some Christian is speaking to you might be because God told them to say something to you.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Struggling with Sin

It is written:

What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! Indeed I would not have known what sin was except through the law.

For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, "Do not covet."

But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of covetous desire. For apart from the law, but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died.

I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death. For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death.

So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good.

Did that which is good, then, become death to me? By no means!

But in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it produced death in me through what was good, so that through the commandment sin might be utterly sinful.

We know that the law is spiritual, but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin.

I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do but what I hate I do. And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good.

As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do good, but I cannot carry it out.

For what I do is not the good I want to do, no, the evil I do not want to do, this I keep doing. Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it but sin living in me that does it.

So I find this law at work, When I want to do good, evil is right there with me,. For in my inner being I delight in God's law, but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members.

What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? Thanks be to God- Through Jesus Christ our Lord!

So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God's law, but in the sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.
-Romans 7: 7-25

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Life Through the Spirit

It is written:

Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus, the law of the Spirit of life has set me free from the law of sin and death.

For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in sinful man, in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit.

Those who live according to the sinful nature have their minds set on what that nature desires, but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires.

The mind of sinful man is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace, the sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God's law, nor can it do so. Those controlled by the sinful nature, cannot please God.

You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet your spirit is alive because of righteousness.

And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit, who lives in you.

Therefore, brothers, we have an obligation - but it is not to the sinful nature, to live according to it. For if you live according to the sinful nature, you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live, because those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God.

For you did not receive a spirit that makes you a slave again to fear, but you received the Spirit of sonship. And by him we cry, Abba Father!

The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children.

Now if we are children then we are heirs - heirs of God and co - heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory. - Romans 8: 1 - 17

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Future Glory

It is written:

I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us.

The creation waits in eager expectation for the sons of God to be revealed.

For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God.

We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in pains of childbirth right up to the present time.

Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. For in this hope we were saved.

But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what he already has? But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently.

In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us, with groans that words cannot express.

And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit interecedes for the saints in accordance with God's will. - Romans 8: 18 - 27

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

More than Conquerors

It is written:

And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the first born among many brothers.

And those he predestined, he also called, those he called, he also justified, those he justified, he also glorified.

What, then, shall we say in response to this?

If God be for us, who can be against us?

He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all - how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things?

Who will bring a charge against those whom God has chosen?
It is God who justifies. Who is he that condemns us?


Christ Jesus, who died, - more than that, who was raised to life - is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us.

Who shall separate us from the Love of Christ?

Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword?

As it is written:

For your sake we face death all day long. We are considered as sheep to be slaughtered.

No, in all these things we are more than conquerors, through him who loved us.

For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else can separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. - Romans 8: 28 - 39

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

God's Sovereign Choice

I speak the truth in Christ - I am not lying, my conscience confirms it in the Holy Spirit - I have great sorry and unceasing anguish in my heart. For I could wish that I myself were cursed and cut off from Christ for the same of my brothers, those of my own race, the people of Israel.

Theirs is the adoption as sons, theirs is the divine glory, the covenants, the receiving of the law, the temple worhsip, and the promises. Theirs is the patriarchs, and from them is traced human ancestry of Christ, who is God over all, forever praised! Amen.

It is not as though God's word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel.

Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham's children. On the contrary, "It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned."

In other words, it is not the natural children who are God's children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's offspring.

For this is how the promise was stated: "At the appointed time I will return, and Sarah will have a son."

Not only that but Rebekah's children had one and the same father, our father, Isaac. Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad - in order that God's purpose in election might stand, not by works but by him who calls - she was told, "The older will serve the younger."

Just as it is written: "Jacob I loved, Esau I hated."

What then shall we say?

Is God unjust?

Not at all!

For he says to Moses, I will have mercy upon whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.

It does not, therefore, depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy. For the Scipture says to Pharoah: "I have raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth." Therefore, God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.

One of you will say to me: "Then why does God blame us"" For who resists his will? But who are you, O man, to talk back to God?

Shall what is formed say to him who formed it, Why did you make me like this? Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for noble purposes and some for common use?

What if God, choosing to show his wrath and make his powers known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath - prepared for destruction?

What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory - even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles?

As he says in Hosea: I will call my people who are not my people, and I will call her "my loved one" who is not my loved one,

and,

It will happen that in the very palce where it was said to them, You are not my people, they will be called "sons of the living God."

Isaiah cries out concerning Israel,

Though the number of Israelites be like the sand by the sea, only a remnant will be saved. For the Lord will carry out his sentence on earth with speed and finality.

It is just as Isaiah said previously,

Unless the Lord Almighty
had left us descendants,
we would have become like Sodom,
We would have been like Gomorrah.

-Romans 9: 1 - 29

 

[rightwinger]

God does not have wrath against mankind

He kind of likes us.....we make him laugh

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Israel's Unbelief

What then shall we say?

That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness by faith, but Israel, who pursued a law of righteousness, has not attained it.

Why not?

Because they pursued it not by faith but as it were by works.

They stumbled over the stumbling stone. As it is written:

"See, I lay in Zion a stone that causes
men to stumble
And a rock that makes them fall
and the one who trusts in him
will never be put to shame."

-Romans 9: 30 - 33